Vincent Lecavalier

[jagr68 0]

I think it will be interesting to see who will win the Hart Trophy.

I am a fan of all three of the most likely players to win. Crosby, Lecavalier and Brodeur.

Brodeur is having another great year. I don't think he will get the Hart Trophy. Although their defense isn't as powerful as it used to be, they still play the trap better than any other team. Only 7 teams face less shots a game than New Jersey. So it's hard to say New Jersey wouldn't be in the playoffs without him.

Lecavalier is having his best season ever. After all the rumors he had to listen to his whole career. From getting traded to Montreal and just yesterday they announced that a trade back in 2001 was done to send him to Toronto. But at the last second, their GM changed his mind. He said he "didn't want to be known as the GM that traded away Lecavalier." Jim Feaster I believe his name is. He will probably be the only player to score 50 goals this year.

I think what hurts him the most is the same thing that helps him the most. Marty St. Louis. Like someone else said, their stats are so similar. They feed off each other and probably have the best chemisty in the NHL. I have Center Ice and watch Tampa games a lot because my girlfriend loves Tampa and especially Vinny, and I'd say they play together better than Dats and Zetts. And that's tough to say because those two are also phenominal. Two of my favorite players also. One thing that helps VInny though, is he has more even strength points then Sidney. Crosby leads the league in power player points. I could be wrong but Vinny may even lead the league in even strength points. He also has a good amount of short handed points.

Crosby I think, will win the Hart. All this talk about him whining is not even a factor. All that means is some fans of hockey don't like him. Crosby doesn't run his mouth this year like he did last year. People still hold that against him. I don't think Crosby can do much about that now. Years from now people will still say that about him even if he does continue like he is this year, keeping his mouth shut and playing hockey. Yzerman is not known as a whiner. But in his eary years he was, just like Mario and Wayne. But some people won't let go of the past.

The Pens have a decent team this year, but it's hard to say the Pens would be where they are without him. The Pens record in his two seaons when he DOESN"T score a point is somewhere around 5-31-2. So it's hard to say that he is not the most valuable to his team. Crosby doesn't exactly play on a great line. He plays with Recchi and Malone. Recchi has seen his best games years ago but isn't bad, just not very good. And Malone, he plays a great game about every 5 games or so. Last night against Buffalo was one of his better games. Crosby rarely plays with Malkin. They do on the power play though. Every team has a player that is the most valuable to their team, but it's hard to say that any team would be doing worse with their best player, than Pittsburgh would without Sidney.

As far as rookie of the year, I liked when Don Cherry said. Malkin will win it, but Staal deserves it. I love Malkin, but he is right. Staal gets less playing time, less power play time, yet is only a few goals behind. He leads the league in short handed goals. He just turned 18 in September. Staal is the only player on the Penguins to NEVER have a minus game all year. He is always even or a plus. His average on the year in powerplay time is 7 seconds. Mostly because he hardly gets to play on the powerplay. Most of the year he was stuck on 3rd or 4th line until recently moved to 2nd line with Malkin.

Malkin has been a awesome player, but you gotta wonder what Staal could have done if he was allowed to play the same role as Malkin.

[Turretin 0]

Lecavalier is a stud that some team will overypay for this off season. I heard that one of the reasons the Smyth talks broke down in EDM is because they are saving money to get Vinny and they thought signing that huge contract with Smyth would prevent them from doing that. There are quite a few teams with a whole lot of money this offseason that are going to nail top FAs like Lecavalier, then this board will explode with anger at Holland for trying to nab 1 or 2 second tier guys for cheap.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Great post jagr68, a very good read.

[jagr68 0]

Well Vinny signed a pretty hefty contract so he won't be a UFA or FA in next couple years. I think he will be 29 or 30 when his contract is over.

I heard the rumor too. Just sounds silly to me. If Edmonton had any chance of getting back into the playoffs, it was with Smyth, and to trade him away because of hope to trade for Vinny in the off-season doesn't add up. Edmonton has nothing Tampa would want. Vinny makes over 6 million a year. Edmonton didn't want to pay Smyth 5.5.

[toby91_ca 620]

I could be wrong but Vinny may even lead the league in even strength points. He also has a good amount of short handed points.

Staal is the only player on the Penguins to NEVER have a minus game all year.

Vinny is 3rd in even strength points:

Briere - 56

St. Louis - 54

Lecavalier - 52

Crosby - 51

He is 2nd in short handed points:

St. Louis - 9

Lecavalier - 8

Staal - 8

I think Staal is probably more valuable to the Pens right now, but it will be difficult to ignore the fact that Malkin has 73 points vs. Staal's 37. Stastny will probably be the guy to give him the most challenge.

In terms of Staal not having a minus game all year....not true, he has 11, though I heard someone else make that claim not too long ago. He actually had 3 minus games in a row back in February.

[jagr68 0]

Ahh, I took Don Cherry's word for it. He had a sheet of paper and reading off these facts about Staal, Malkin, and the Pens. His reasoning why Staal should be rookie of the year. But I never checked, but if you did, then he was wrong. Staal was a minus atleast once this year.

Thanks Aussie Wing, seems most of my posts on this Red Wings board have to do with the Pens, Crosby, Jagr, Lemieux, or Tampa Bay. I may as well post on a Pens board, hah. But I love the Wings, they are my 2nd favorite team. Born in PA, now live in Michigan, so the Pens will always be my favorite team!

[toby91_ca 620]

Ahh, I took Don Cherry's word for it.

There you go, thanks for the reminder, that's the other person I heard it from recently. When I heard that, I thought to myself, that can't be true, so I went and checked, sure enough, it wasn't true.

[YzerTinov 0]

What it comes down to with crosby, is his contribution is scoring... and its not like he is pulling that team alone. Malkin, Staal and a bunch of underrated youngsters racked up from all the high draft picks are really lighting it up. Crosby, has a lot, but relative to assists, not even a ton of goals. Without Malkin and Staals scoring prowess, on the PP and such, it wouldnt be the same.

Brodeur on the other hand, is a horse, that team would be nowhere without him.

Just my opinion, no disrespect to crosby.

[Dano33 41]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/trophies

according to espn's trophy tracker, lidstrom has moved into 2nd for the race for the hart, with crosby sliding to third.

[edicius 3,269]

Between Crosby, Lecavalier, Brodeur and Lidstrom, I have to give it to Brodeur.

Out of all the players listed above, Brodeur is the only one who can truly claim to be THE star of the team. Crosby, Lids and Vinnie all have supporting cast members, as it were, that can take away from their lustre. The Devils, however, have lost their stars over time, leaving Marty with the crown.

That said, Crosby will still probably win it.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

2 more goals for Vinny tonight, up to 48 on the season.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Between Crosby, Lecavalier, Brodeur and Lidstrom, I have to give it to Brodeur.

Out of all the players listed above, Brodeur is the only one who can truly claim to be THE star of the team. Crosby, Lids and Vinnie all have supporting cast members, as it were, that can take away from their lustre. The Devils, however, have lost their stars over time, leaving Marty with the crown.

That said, Crosby will still probably win it.

Yeah, Brodeur is probably the only actual "star" on New Jersey. Sure they have guys like Elias, Madden, and Rafalski, but they still have nothing on Brodeur and don't nearly save the team quite like Brodeur does. Without Brodeur, New Jersey would probably be a sub-500 team. You live in Jersey, so you probably have a better view than I do. Is my assumption correct?

[sibiriak 84]

I think it will be interesting to see who will win the Hart Trophy.

I am a fan of all three of the most likely players to win. Crosby, Lecavalier and Brodeur.

Brodeur is having another great year. I don't think he will get the Hart Trophy. Although their defense isn't as powerful as it used to be, they still play the trap better than any other team. Only 7 teams face less shots a game than New Jersey. So it's hard to say New Jersey wouldn't be in the playoffs without him.

Lecavalier is having his best season ever. After all the rumors he had to listen to his whole career. From getting traded to Montreal and just yesterday they announced that a trade back in 2001 was done to send him to Toronto. But at the last second, their GM changed his mind. He said he "didn't want to be known as the GM that traded away Lecavalier." Jim Feaster I believe his name is. He will probably be the only player to score 50 goals this year.

I think what hurts him the most is the same thing that helps him the most. Marty St. Louis. Like someone else said, their stats are so similar. They feed off each other and probably have the best chemisty in the NHL. I have Center Ice and watch Tampa games a lot because my girlfriend loves Tampa and especially Vinny, and I'd say they play together better than Dats and Zetts. And that's tough to say because those two are also phenominal. Two of my favorite players also. One thing that helps VInny though, is he has more even strength points then Sidney. Crosby leads the league in power player points. I could be wrong but Vinny may even lead the league in even strength points. He also has a good amount of short handed points.

Crosby I think, will win the Hart. All this talk about him whining is not even a factor. All that means is some fans of hockey don't like him. Crosby doesn't run his mouth this year like he did last year. People still hold that against him. I don't think Crosby can do much about that now. Years from now people will still say that about him even if he does continue like he is this year, keeping his mouth shut and playing hockey. Yzerman is not known as a whiner. But in his eary years he was, just like Mario and Wayne. But some people won't let go of the past.

The Pens have a decent team this year, but it's hard to say the Pens would be where they are without him. The Pens record in his two seaons when he DOESN"T score a point is somewhere around 5-31-2. So it's hard to say that he is not the most valuable to his team. Crosby doesn't exactly play on a great line. He plays with Recchi and Malone. Recchi has seen his best games years ago but isn't bad, just not very good. And Malone, he plays a great game about every 5 games or so. Last night against Buffalo was one of his better games. Crosby rarely plays with Malkin. They do on the power play though. Every team has a player that is the most valuable to their team, but it's hard to say that any team would be doing worse with their best player, than Pittsburgh would without Sidney.

As far as rookie of the year, I liked when Don Cherry said. Malkin will win it, but Staal deserves it. I love Malkin, but he is right. Staal gets less playing time, less power play time, yet is only a few goals behind. He leads the league in short handed goals. He just turned 18 in September. Staal is the only player on the Penguins to NEVER have a minus game all year. He is always even or a plus. His average on the year in powerplay time is 7 seconds. Mostly because he hardly gets to play on the powerplay. Most of the year he was stuck on 3rd or 4th line until recently moved to 2nd line with Malkin.

Malkin has been a awesome player, but you gotta wonder what Staal could have done if he was allowed to play the same role as Malkin.

One should listen to Don Cherry more critically. Especially when he is touting a Canadian player over a Russian one for an award. Jordan Staal ( C ) Pittsburgh has played 69 NHL games this season and was a '-' player in 11 of them and a '+' player in 21 of them, for an impressive total of +16, according to nhl.com. The Pittsburgh coaches choose to play Malkin more than Staal. Do you think they are purposefully trying to hamper their team?

That said, 28G, 10A in 69GP for 38 pts for a young rookie is very good. Just not good enough to be chosen over Malkin (31G,43A,66GP), P.Stastny (23G,44A,70GP), or Kopitar(18G,38A,63GP).

[LeftWinger 4,958]

...well, just as everything else in this world, politics take control of everything. Not that he is not having a great year, but the NHL is doing so much ass-licking and ball munching on Sidney Crosby that they will hand him at least 4 of the next 5 Hart trophies. For sure this year. I wonder what the chances of getting Vinnie into a Winged Wheel are? That would be awesome...

[Kp-Wings 3]

...well, just as everything else in this world, politics take control of everything. Not that he is not having a great year, but the NHL is doing so much ass-licking and ball munching on Sidney Crosby that they will hand him at least 4 of the next 5 Hart trophies. For sure this year. I wonder what the chances of getting Vinnie into a Winged Wheel are? That would be awesome...

About as much chance as Eklund getting a trade rumor right.

It would be cool, yes, but I think Lecavalier is locked up for a few years as it is. And he'll have high demand once he does hit the market.

[edicius 3,269]

Yeah, Brodeur is probably the only actual "star" on New Jersey. Sure they have guys like Elias, Madden, and Rafalski, but they still have nothing on Brodeur and don't nearly save the team quite like Brodeur does. Without Brodeur, New Jersey would probably be a sub-500 team. You live in Jersey, so you probably have a better view than I do. Is my assumption correct?

Pretty much. The Devils aren't the defensive powerhouse they used to be (sure, there are only seven teams that give up fewer SOG per game...but seven's a lot more than zero) and Brodeur's facing more rubber than he used to. And believe me, I was one of those people that said, "Watch, Brodeur's going to be exposed as a fraud once his defensive corps dissolve." I was wrong - Marty's the real deal. The ONLY real deal on that Devils team. If they had anyone else in net, be it Biron, Khabibulin or even Hasek, they would be struggling to see the postseason.

[jagr68 0]

Yeah, good job to Vinny tonight. Another two goal game. My girlfriend was pretty pissed though, to see them lose.

I don't know, I personally think Crosby deserves the Hart over any of the four players. But realistically, each of the four players have legit reasons to have earned the trophy. The four of them deserve it more than any other player so it's hard to say any of them would have got snubbed if another one of them wins it. All four are having great seasons.

I think Lidstrom will win the Norris so I doubt they will hand him the Hart. It's possible, but I think unlikely. So your back to Sid, Brodeur, and Lecavalier. I love Vinny, but his case as being the most valuable to his team when St. Louis is 2pts behind him may hinder him. So I feel it will between Sid and Brodeur. Both are good choices.

Yeah, Don Cherry was off on some of his stats. But he is right on some of them. I think the point he was pretty much making though, is yes he doesn't have the stats like Malkin, especially the assists. But he will most likely finish with 30 goals as a rookie which is impressive for a 18yr old. He won't finish with a lot of points. But what Cherry is basically saying is, had Staal been givin the opportunity that Malkin is, far as playing on a 2nd or 1st line ALL season, not just lately, and that he only averages 7 seconds a game on the PP. Staal was used almost the whole season as a 4th liner, then a 3rd liner, and about 15 games ago a 2nd line player. He got most of his playing time on the PK. Some games he doesn't even get PP time. So most of his points are even strength or shorthanded. Cherry knows Malkin will win.

And Malkin will win, but it's interesting to see what that kid could have done with the same opportunity. I do agree, Cherry always will root for a Canadian player over a European player. But he always has a interesting point of view.

[eva unit zero 271]

Yeah, Don Cherry was off on some of his stats. But he is right on some of them. I think the point he was pretty much making though, is yes he doesn't have the stats like Malkin, especially the assists. But he will most likely finish with 30 goals as a rookie which is impressive for a 18yr old. He won't finish with a lot of points. But what Cherry is basically saying is, had Staal been givin the opportunity that Malkin is, far as playing on a 2nd or 1st line ALL season, not just lately, and that he only averages 7 seconds a game on the PP. Staal was used almost the whole season as a 4th liner, then a 3rd liner, and about 15 games ago a 2nd line player. He got most of his playing time on the PK. Some games he doesn't even get PP time. So most of his points are even strength or shorthanded. Cherry knows Malkin will win.

If Staal deserves the Calder because of opportunity he didn't get, then Hudler should win. He has nearly identical goals and points per minute numbers, and since Hudler started playing as much per game as Staal has all season, Hudler has scored at a per-game rate that is better than Malkin's season rate.

[jagr68 0]

Well, Hudler is doing pretty good lately. But him having 20pts in 65 games this year doesn't look so good as rookie of the year. But like you said, had he been given more playing time perhaps he would have better stats. It's one of those things we'll never know.

Which is basically why Malkin will win. You can take any rookie's stats and figure what they may have done given a bigger role. I don't feel Staal should win the Calder, but I feel he'd have numbers just as good if not better than Malkin had he been given the role.

Also, I am probably wrong, but I thought a player who played atleast 10 games prior to a season, he couldn't quality for rookie of the year. Hudler played 12 games in 03-04 and 4 games in 05-06. So he had 16 NHL games played before this season. Like I said, I'm probably wrong about that, but I just thought it was around 10 games or so. If somebody knows the real amount, then that would help.

Malkin, Stastny, and Kopitar are probably the top runners. Malkin, most likely to win. Kopitar is real fun to watch. I think in a few years that team will be very good offensively. All they need is a future goalie that has potential.

This is getting way off topic. But as far as Lecavalier goes, I hope he continues producing. Beginning of the year a buddy of mine and my girlfriend bet $20 on who'd have more points: Vinny or Joe. She picked Vinny and he picked Thornton. Two months ago looked like the $20 was easily hers, but Thornton has really put up some numbers last few weeks. He caught up quick and is only 2 points behind. I doubt either one will catch Sidney though!

[theman19 47]

i know i'm totally jacking this thread but in context to hart talks, marty got his ass handed to him by the hurricanes, getting yanked after the 4th goal. That team has his number or something, he got yanked last year in the playoffs playing them too.

[Kp-Wings 3]

i know i'm totally jacking this thread but in context to hart talks, marty got his ass handed to him by the hurricanes, getting yanked after the 4th goal. That team has his number or something, he got yanked last year in the playoffs playing them too.

I don't think a few bad games a season would limit someone to not winning the Hart. Do you think Joe Thornton had played his best in all 82 games last year? No he didn't. Just because someone has a bad game or two doesn't mean they don't have a chance to win it.