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up2here

Top Ten hockey players since 1980

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Is that maybe because he scored on his own goal in the '96 Western Conference Finals against Colorado? :scared:

Just wondering.

Actually my brains defense mechanism had allowed me to forget that,thanks for the reminder :angry:

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Just thought I'd re-emphasize that Mike Bossy should be up there.

He had a short career and it started 2 years prior to 1980, but since 1980 he still had 4 Cups, 1 Conn Smythe, seven 50 goal seasons (only Gretzky has had more), four 60 goal seasons (trailing only Gretzky who had 6), and six 100 point seasons.

I hate to say it, but you could arguably put him ahead of Yzerman and Sakic......although there is something to be said for longevity.

Edit:

I should also mention he's 1 of 5 members of the 50 in 50 club, scoring 50 goals in their team's first 50 games. The club includes Richard, Bossy, Gretzky (who did it 3 times), Lemieux, and Brett Hull (who did it twice).

You left Neely off of the 50 in 50 list, he got 50 goals in 44 games, and ended the season with 50 in 49 games. Great point about Bossy too. You listen to a lot of the 90's players and they all credit Bossy as an influence on how they wanted to play the game. That said, I leave Bossy off because he only played ten years, the same reason I'm leaving Neely off. And Neely is one of my alltime favorites.

Here's my list, and I can't put it in order.

Gretz- Consummate scorer

Yzerman- Consummate all-around player

Mario- Most dominating physically in this era

Bourque- Best all-around defenseman in this era

Lidstrom- The only thing Bourque's got on him is the physical game

Roy- Hate the guy, but great goalie

Hasek- 6 Vezinas speak for itself

Messier- Nasty, fast and skilled. Great leader too.

Shanahan- Durable, nasty, great hands and a good leader.

Brodeur- Great goalie who will be the most prolific when he's all done.

Other guys I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned:

Mats Sundin- I love the guy, and he's carried Toronto even when they have had no business being in contention.

Doug Gilmour- One of the best two way forwards of all time. He was great and fun to watch.

Brian Leetch- Played elite hockey in New York for years.

Mike Richter- Silver Medal for the US, Canada Cup, Stanley Cup, and he was solid. I'd put him ahead of Joseph and maybe Belfour.

Sergei Zubov- Quiet guy who's played nothing but stellar hockey since 92.

Grant Fuhr- Backstopped the Oil and the Blues to their best seasons.

Vladdy- It's a Red Wings board and no one's mentioned Vladdy? I'm not going to, but I've seen people here put him in the top ten all time defensemen.

Chris Pronger- Dominating beast of a man. Borderline dirty and one of the best first passes ever.

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Mats Sundin- I love the guy, and he's carried Toronto even when they have had no business being in contention.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Messier, Sakic, Francis are all centers whose entire career is eligible and are top-ten all-time in scoring. Oates, Gilmour, Hawerchuk, Savard, Turgeon, and Stastny are all also ahead of Sundin in scoring. He would have a tough time making a top ten CENTERS since 1980 list, let alone top ten players.

Doug Gilmour- One of the best two way forwards of all time. He was great and fun to watch.

Gilmour was only among the league's elite players for about a season and a half. He was a good first line center muchof his career, but not consistently a top player like the five centers who are being put on most lists (Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Yzerman, Sakic)

Brian Leetch- Played elite hockey in New York for years.

Leetch is Coffey-lite. Include Leetch and you must include Coffey, MacInnis, Murphy, and Housley as well. That's an awful lot of space to spend on defensemen before even mentioning Lidstrom, Chelios, and Bourque.

Mike Richter- Silver Medal for the US, Canada Cup, Stanley Cup, and he was solid. I'd put him ahead of Joseph and maybe Belfour.

I would put Richter behind Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour, Joseph, Osgood, Fuhr, Moog, Vanbiesbrouck, and Barrasso. That moves him out of contention without even considering skaters.

Sergei Zubov- Quiet guy who's played nothing but stellar hockey since 92.

He has never even come close to the Norris. There are several guys who don't make this list who have come closer more often--Al MacInnis, Paul Coffey, Chris Chelios, and Brian Leetch as the notables.

Grant Fuhr- Backstopped the Oil and the Blues to their best seasons.

Roy, Hasek, Brodeur are really the only goalies in the discussion. Everyone else is second tier or below.

Vladdy- It's a Red Wings board and no one's mentioned Vladdy? I'm not going to, but I've seen people here put him in the top ten all time defensemen.

He didn't play long enough as an elite player to really warrant consideration. If we're talking about the ten best single seasons, Vladdie might get into the discussion. But with his career being cut short, it takes him out of contention.

Chris Pronger- Dominating beast of a man. Borderline dirty and one of the best first passes ever.

Chelios and Stevens are comparable players who are ahead of Pronger and still miss out.

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Richter is definately in the top ten goalies since the 80s, I don't know how you can say Vanbiesbruck is in during one breath but not saying hes in in the next breath

I said Vanbiesbrouck was ahead of Richter--note that Richter never started until Beezer left town, and Beezer was still better than Richter after that.

I never said Beezer should be on a ten-best list of all players since 1980.

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Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Messier, Sakic, Francis are all centers whose entire career is eligible and are top-ten all-time in scoring. Oates, Gilmour, Hawerchuk, Savard, Turgeon, and Stastny are all also ahead of Sundin in scoring. He would have a tough time making a top ten CENTERS since 1980 list, let alone top ten players.

Gilmour was only among the league's elite players for about a season and a half. He was a good first line center muchof his career, but not consistently a top player like the five centers who are being put on most lists (Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Yzerman, Sakic)

Leetch is Coffey-lite. Include Leetch and you must include Coffey, MacInnis, Murphy, and Housley as well. That's an awful lot of space to spend on defensemen before even mentioning Lidstrom, Chelios, and Bourque.

I would put Richter behind Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour, Joseph, Osgood, Fuhr, Moog, Vanbiesbrouck, and Barrasso. That moves him out of contention without even considering skaters.

He has never even come close to the Norris. There are several guys who don't make this list who have come closer more often--Al MacInnis, Paul Coffey, Chris Chelios, and Brian Leetch as the notables.

Roy, Hasek, Brodeur are really the only goalies in the discussion. Everyone else is second tier or below.

He didn't play long enough as an elite player to really warrant consideration. If we're talking about the ten best single seasons, Vladdie might get into the discussion. But with his career being cut short, it takes him out of contention.

Chelios and Stevens are comparable players who are ahead of Pronger and still miss out.

So yeah, everyone of those guys I just named weren't included. I was just surprised no one mentioned them on three pages of the thread. I know they're not going to make the list, but I just wanted to throw them out there.

I think Sundin is in the same breath as at least a few of the players you named. Not all of them, and I would agree that he would have trouble making the top centers since 80. But don't poo-poo his being mentioned, because he has been a damn good player for about 12 or 13 years.

Richter behind Osgood and Moog? Really? I can see arguments for the other two, but I just don't see where you're coming from there.

Leetch was at least a little better than Coffey defensively, but that doesn't say much at all. Coffey was the better player for sure, but Leetch isn't a punk.

Vladdy was great for a few seasons, but I was being facetious. There are a lot of Vladdy guys on these boards who put him in the top ten alltime.

As far as Zubov goes, he should have gotten a lot more consideration for the Norris than he has. Blake won with a minus rating. Hatcher, who Zubov carried all year, got more consideration than him too. He's quietly been an elite powerplay guy and good all around defenseman his entire career. Just giving some credit where it's due. It doesn't help that Zubov played in the same era as Bourque, Coffey, Lidstrom and Cheli.

Gilmour was good on the draw, great defensively, and made every team he was on better. I wasn't putting him on the list, but if people were throwing Crosby and Jokinen out there then everyone I named at least deserves mention.

I said Vanbiesbrouck was ahead of Richter--note that Richter never started until Beezer left town, and Beezer was still better than Richter after that.

I never said Beezer should be on a ten-best list of all players since 1980.

And I never said the players I named should be on the list either. But you took some offense to all of them. And Beezer wasn't that clear cut ahead of Richter. Richter was pretty clutch, and Beezer never delivered.

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So yeah, everyone of those guys I just named weren't included. I was just surprised no one mentioned them on three pages of the thread. I know they're not going to make the list, but I just wanted to throw them out there.

I think Sundin is in the same breath as at least a few of the players you named. Not all of them, and I would agree that he would have trouble making the top centers since 80. But don't poo-poo his being mentioned, because he has been a damn good player for about 12 or 13 years.

I wasn't poo-pooing. I was explaining why he didn't come up.

Leetch was at least a little better than Coffey defensively, but that doesn't say much at all. Coffey was the better player for sure, but Leetch isn't a punk.

As far as Zubov goes, he should have gotten a lot more consideration for the Norris than he has. Blake won with a minus rating. Hatcher, who Zubov carried all year, got more consideration than him too. He's quietly been an elite powerplay guy and good all around defenseman his entire career. Just giving some credit where it's due. It doesn't help that Zubov played in the same era as Bourque, Coffey, Lidstrom and Cheli.

Playing in an era with all those guys is exactly WHY he wasn't mentioned. This isn't 'guys who would be top-ten in some 25 year stretch yet to be determined.' It's top since 1980, and all of those guys played. Zubov has been very good, but very good doesn't get him anywhere near this list.

Gilmour was good on the draw, great defensively, and made every team he was on better. I wasn't putting him on the list, but if people were throwing Crosby and Jokinen out there then everyone I named at least deserves mention.

Considering the number of players who were better than Gilmour most years he played, no, Dougie doesn't get consideration. Crosby and Jokinen are only being thrown out by people who have no concept that being the best player in a 27 year span means more than being one of the league's best players for a year or two. And you're right, all the guys you mentioned were more worthy than Crosby or Jokinen. Doesn't mean they should get considered, though.

Richter behind Osgood and Moog? Really? I can see arguments for the other two, but I just don't see where you're coming from there.

And I never said the players I named should be on the list either. But you took some offense to all of them. And Beezer wasn't that clear cut ahead of Richter. Richter was pretty clutch, and Beezer never delivered.

Beezer was better in the 96 playoffs than Richter was at ANY POINT in his career. Beezer won a Vezina and contended for others. Richter was never even a Vezina contender--which Moog and Osgood were, AHEAD OF RICHTER.

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Richter was pretty clutch, and Beezer never delivered.

I don't know about that one...Beezer was pretty clutch with the 1995-96 Panthers. Leading scorer on that team was...uhhh...Scott Mellanby.

Richter was great in 1994, but on a team with no fewer than five other players (Messier, Zubov, Kovalev, Anderson, Leetch) who have at least been mentioned in this thread.

They're both about equal in my personal goalie rankings, but if someone put a gun to my head, I'm going with Beezer.

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I said Vanbiesbrouck was ahead of Richter--note that Richter never started until Beezer left town, and Beezer was still better than Richter after that.

I never said Beezer should be on a ten-best list of all players since 1980.

I definately agree that neither of them are even close to being on that list but I think that they were pretty close in terms of skill, seeing as how they split duty. IMO Richter was better than Vanbiesbruck

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You left Neely off of the 50 in 50 list, he got 50 goals in 44 games, and ended the season with 50 in 49 games. Great point about Bossy too. You listen to a lot of the 90's players and they all credit Bossy as an influence on how they wanted to play the game. That said, I leave Bossy off because he only played ten years, the same reason I'm leaving Neely off. And Neely is one of my alltime favorites.

Neely did score 50 in 44 games, but his 50th goal came in his team's 66th game, therefore he's not in the club. In order for a player to be in the 50 in 50 club, he has to score his 50th goal in his team's 50th game or less. The reason for this is because when Richard did it there were only 50 games in a season, leaving no room for injury or the luxury of missing games.

For more information on the 50 in 50 club look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_in_50

Neely was badass though.

Edited by TheUltimateWingsFan

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Neely did score 50 in 44 games, but his 50th goal came in his team's 66th game, therefore he's not in the club. In order for a player to be in the 50 in 50 club, he has to score his 50th goal in his team's 50th game or less. The reason for this is because when Richard did it there were only 50 games in a season, leaving no room for injury or the luxury of missing games.

For more information on the 50 in 50 club look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_in_50

Neely was badass though.

I was not aware. I figured 50 in 44 games played is just that, but that makes sense. Fair enough.

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Damn, it's hard to limit it to 10.

I'd say the following 6 are locks:

Gretzky

Lemieux

Jagr

Bourque

Lidstrom

Roy

The next 4 are probable:

Yzerman

Sakic

Messier

Hasek

But somehow these fellas need to be mentioned:

Chelios

Stastny

Hawerchuk

Savard

Hull

Bure

Selanne

Goulet

Kurri

Coffey

Also, if Mike Bossy is eligible, he should be a lock.

I don't know how Roy and Martin Brodeur are left off any list like yours. Top 10 yeah maybe, but if you are going to list all who are worthy of consideration, they have to be in the discussion.

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1. Gretzky

2. Lemieux

3. Bourque

4. Yzerman

5. Messier (Could be swapped with Yzerman, both are tough to determine).

6. Francis

7. Coffey

8. Jagr

9. Hull

10. Hawerchuk

I put this list together pretty quickly, so I may make minor changes, but it's accurate enough, IMO.

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Guest Tunbo Batman

Gretzky is overrated.

Here is my list :

1 Super Mario World

2 Ghouls n Ghosts

3 Final Fantasy 2

4 Contra 3

5 Castlevania 4

6 F-Zero

7 Gradius 3

8 Actraiser

9 Donkey Kong Country 2

10 R-Type 3

:unsure:

oops, those are my top 10 SNES games. but anyway.

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