Top Ten hockey players since 1980

[TheUltimateWingsFan 1]

not to be a homer, but i think 6 vezinas and 2 harts in a 27 year stretch pretty much makes Dom a lock in that category. last time i checked Roy only had 3 vezinas and 0 harts... and only 1 more cup than Dom, and Dom is not done yet. Roy was an unbelievable goalie, but Dom, in terms of accomplishments, is almost equal to Roy.

Ah man, now you're making me defend Roy.

In short: 3 Vezinas, 4 Cups, & 3 Conn Smythes > 6 Vezinas, 2 Harts, & 1 Cup

[rwfan007 18]

Ah man, now you're making me defend Roy.

In short: 3 Vezinas, 4 Cups, & 3 Conn Smythes > 6 Vezinas, 2 Harts, & 1 Cup

oh yeah, i forgot his MTL days... still dom has got him in vezinas and harts, and the back to back shutouts in games 6 and 7 should count for something

Edited March 21, 2007 by rwfan007

[toby91_ca 620]

Messier,Bourque,Stastny,Coffey,Shanahan,Robiitaille,Hull,Roy are ALL deserving.The point of the list is to debate and hear peoples opinions.

They are all deserving of recognition, but not necessarily top 10 recognition.

I don't think there should be a debate as to whether Bourque and Messier are there, they are locks, along with others (Gretzky, Lemieux, etc.). You can debate who fills the remaining spots, but not on these guys. My opinion I suppose, but hard to argue if you ask me.

[scsgoal31 0]

Conclusion:

Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Bourque, Messier, Lidstrom, Jagr, Roy, Hasek, Sakic are the top ten players (in no order) since 1980.

I was with this until I realized you got rid of Coffey some how without any reason. Granted with your reasoning, he would have been booted at the end without any Harts or Smyths, but with 3 Norris's and 4 first teams and 4 second teams, as well as being the 10th leading scorer in NHL history makes me think he should have lasted longer in your Survivor cast-away

Otherwise excellent job!

Edited March 21, 2007 by scsgoal31

[TheUltimateWingsFan 1]

Just thought I'd re-emphasize that Mike Bossy should be up there.

He had a short career and it started 2 years prior to 1980, but since 1980 he still had 4 Cups, 1 Conn Smythe, seven 50 goal seasons (only Gretzky has had more), four 60 goal seasons (trailing only Gretzky who had 6), and six 100 point seasons.

I hate to say it, but you could arguably put him ahead of Yzerman and Sakic......although there is something to be said for longevity.

Edit:

I should also mention he's 1 of 5 members of the 50 in 50 club, scoring 50 goals in their team's first 50 games. The club includes Richard, Bossy, Gretzky (who did it 3 times), Lemieux, and Brett Hull (who did it twice).

Edited March 21, 2007 by TheUltimateWingsFan

[toby91_ca 620]

Just thought I'd re-emphasize that Mike Bossy should be up there.

He had a short career and it started 2 years prior to 1980, but since 1980 he still had 4 Cups, 1 Conn Smythe, seven 50 goal seasons (only Gretzky has had more), four 60 goal seasons (he had 5 total, trailing only Gretzky who had 6), and six 100 point seasons.

I hate to say it, but you could arguably put him ahead of Yzerman and Sakic......although there is something to be said for longevity.

Edit:

I should also mention he's 1 of 5 members of the 50 in 50 club, scoring 50 goals in their team's first 50 games. The club includes Richard, Bossy, Gretzky (who did it 3 times), Lemieux, and Brett Hull (who did it twice).

I think the only thing against Bossy is lack of Hart trophies and scoring titles, but you are right, he should be there. Lack of longevity hasn't hurt Orr in terms of where he sits on the all time list and Bossy played more games than him.

Bossy retired the year he scored 38 goals in 63 games.

The guy could put the puck in the net, no doubt. He also put up significant point totals, where several guys high on the all time goal scoring list haven't really put up a lot of high point totals (Andreychuk, Shanahan, Gartner, Ciccarelli)

[Legionnaire11 0]

Hmmm...

Locks: Gretzky, Messier, Lemieux, Jagr, Roy, Brodeur, Yzerman, Bourque.

Thats 8 of the top 10 already set. So it's really a battle for two other spots.

Who could fill them? Sakic, Lidstrom, Stevens, Robitaille, Hull, Kurri, Coffey and Hasek are all great picks. and if you're just judging on pure ability and not taking into account longevity then we can add Bossy, Bure, Lindros, Lafontaine and Neely.

I'd rather not finish out a top 10 list as several great players would be left off. But that would defeat the purpose of this thread if I didn't make a final list.

1. Gretzky

2. Messier

3. Lemieux

4. Yzerman

5. Roy

6. Brodeur

7. Jagr

8. Bourque

9. Lidstrom

10. Hasek

[jagr68 0]

Guess I may as well put mine in particular order...

1) Lemieux

2) Gretzky

3) Yzerman

4) Jagr

5) Lidstrom

6) Coffey

7) Sakic

8) Fedorov

9) Forsberg

10) Bure and Selanne. Clearly Selanne has had the better (well longer, atleast) career. But in the short time Bure played compared to Selanne, Bure was a scoring machine in his time also.

Basically I figured, Mario has been consistant pretty much his whole career until he turned 37 or so. Had he never came back from retirement he would of been the only player in NHL history to have a points per game average above 2. Wayne stopped putting up awesome numbers when he left Edmonton. Yzerman has always been in the shadow of those two, but has had one heck of a career.

Jagr's been in Mario's shadow for most of his early years, but finally showed how dominant he was shortly before Mario retired, and especially after. This year it appears he finally slowed down a bit. But he has been playing almost the whole season with a injury, just to help his team make the playoffs.

Lidstrom won't ever be looked at as good as Orr (He doesn't skate coast to coast and score like Orr could) , but they play two different styles. Lidstrom obviously can scores goals and make great passes. But his defensive work is next to none. He doesn't have to hit or take bad penalties. Also, although Crosby has only played two games against the Wings, he did say Lidstrom was the toughest player to play against.

Coffey is one of the best skaters the league has ever seen. He has played on many Cup teams and played with some of the games best, from Gretzky to Lemieux, to Yzerman. He has put up over 1,500pts as a defenseman. That is prett impressive. One could argue and probably throw Bourque in here also, but I feel Coffey was better.

Sakic is another guy who suffered from playing in the same era as Mario and Gretzky. Great career, but was in the shadow of 66 and 99.

Fedorov may be the best overall player the NHL has ever seen. He can play wing just as good as center if he wants. He can step back and play defence and not be a liability. He's helped the Wings win Cups and scored some big goals. Wings fans probably will resent him for the rest of his career, but while he was a Wing he was always one of the best players in the NHL. Much like Jagr, you didn't know which guy you'd get. The Fedorov that wants to win and play hard, or the one who'd rather be doing something else.

Forsberg was shadowed by Sakic early in his career but didn't take long for him to prove how good he was. Most of us don't like him, but he was and still is very tough on his skates and hard to knock down (although once the whistle blows he has been known to fall rather easily). Has had a lot of success at the International level too.

Didn't really throw any goalies in, but we all know Brodeur and Roy are #1 and #2, or #2 and #1. From there you could debate a lot. Belfour may be #3.

I'd like to have thrown Crosby in, but most would say he hasn't played long enough. And that's probably true. Any player that came to the league in the last 5 or 6 years, would be tough to say is one of the 'top ten players since 1980.'

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Saw an interesting debate in another forum.People were asked to name the top 10 hockey players since 1980(Post european invasion).There were some interesting names,for what its worth heres mine in no particlar order:

Yzerman

Lemieux(Mario not Claude)

Gretzky

Brodeur

Bossy

Makarov

Fetisov

Sakic

Lidstrom

Stastny

Let the arguments begin!

How in the HELL can you put Makarov, Fetisov, and Stastny in that list and exclude players like Messier, Coffey and Hull???

[Legionnaire11 0]

not sure where these lists are coming from that don't include Messier

[jagr68 0]

Yeah, totally forgot about Mess....

It's hard to have a top 10, once you get past Mario, Wayne, and Steve, the rest is pretty much a debate. Even Jagr wouldn't be a lock on some people's lists.

I also forgot Brett Hull.

Lemieux, Gretzky, Yzerman, Sakic, Hull, Jagr, Messier, Selanne, Fedorov, Fetisov, Bure, LaFontaine, Neely, Robitaille, Lidstrom, Bourque, Coffey, Modano, Forsberg, and Ron Francis are all guys who could be on anybody's realistic top 10 list.

Goalies, little easier, basically you can place Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, and Hasek in the top 4, in any order you choose.

[FinWing 26]

In short: 3 Vezinas, 4 Cups, & 3 Conn Smythe ~ 6 Vezinas, 2 Harts, & 1 Cup

IMO, the number of Cups should be somewhat irrelevant since it's a team accomplishment.

As for the personal trophies, you decide which ones are the most valuable. Dom has more trophies but Waaaah has those Conn Smythes.

[C-TownWing 0]

I'm going to give mine some structure, cause I tend to think there's a bias towards forwards in these types of things. So to keep it in rough proportion to the positions on the ice at one time, I'm going with five forwards, three defensemen, two goalies. I've never been huge on just going by point totals or trophies, so I'm just picking from my gut.

F: Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman are mortal locks. It's beyond tough to fill the last two slots--Hull, Jagr, Messier, Bossy, Forsberg, Sakic, Fedorov, Modano were the first names that popped into my head. I'll take Sakic, I've always had a ton of respect for his game and his class. I'll go with Hull over Messier for that last spot because I have enough freaking captains and centers already, we need someone to score the goals.

D: Bourque and Lidstrom are locks. Lidstrom's been the best in the game for 10 years or so, and Bourque was the best in the game for the 10 years or so before that. I'm taking Chelios over Coffey for the last spot. Part of that's favorite-player bias, but part of it's also to get some physicality and a strictly defensive defenseman on the list (not that Lids isn't phenomenal, just that he does too much scoring to be thought of that way).

G: Roy and Hasek have pretty much separated themselves as the generation-defining goalies. Brodeur's close, but not quite at that level.

[Zetter is Better 0]

1. Gretzky

2. Yzerman

3. Lemieux

4. Jagr

5. Neely (the definition of power forward)

6. Sakic

7. Bourgue

8. Fedorov

9. Lidstrom

10. Messier

IMO

[up2here 41]

How in the HELL can you put Makarov, Fetisov, and Stastny in that list and exclude players like Messier, Coffey and Hull???

It wasnt easy:

Makarov:Anyone who saw him play in his prime would tell you he was the best player in the world at the time.

Fetisov:Scott Stevens only with more offense.

Stastny:2nd highest scoring rookie in history,started the European invasion.Also the second highest scoring playey in the 80's after Gretzky.

My argument on Messier was that he played 25 years and always had a lot of surrounding talent,not to take anything away from him he was a great player.Hull was kind of one dimensional and Coffey was well known for being irresponsible defensively.All great players but the list is only 10.Also if someone held a gun to my head i would cut Stastny and add Roy.God I hate admitting that.

[Guest Tunbo Batman]

okay, so basically its impossible to narrow this list down to 10 without leaving out somebody who deserves it you could at least put goalies in a separate category

[TheLegend19 1]

Coffey was well known for being irresponsible defensively.

Is that maybe because he scored on his own goal in the '96 Western Conference Finals against Colorado?

Just wondering.

[Legionnaire11 0]

G: Roy and Hasek have pretty much separated themselves as the generation-defining goalies. Brodeur's close, but not quite at that level.

Really? because a lot of people think Brodeur is the best all time. and a lot of those who don't, think that he will be when he retires. I'd definitely take brodeur over the other two. If anything, more people (outside of buffalo and detroit) would question Hasek of the three.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Yzerman

Gretzky

Lemieux

Brodeur

Hasek

Coffey

Lidstrom

Sakic

Francis

Jagr

Man, this was hard

[ultrapail 0]

after this discussion started to include the Soviets, not a single person mentioned Tretiak. Even though half of his career was pre-1980, the second part was still fantastic. In my opinion, he was the best goaltender in the world for 20 years.

[theman19 47]

In no particular order

forwards

gretzky

coffey

messier

yzerman

federov

Hull

mario

jagr

lidstrom

gartner

goalies

Broduer

Roy

Hasek

Fuhr

Richter

Vernon

the beezer (God knows how you spell that)

Smith

Hextall

Belfor

Edited March 22, 2007 by theman19

[eva unit zero 271]

Cam Neely should not even be in this discussion.

He was good, but rarely great. Some RWs I would consider ahead of him include Brett Hull, Jari Kurri, Glenn Anderson, Mike Bossy, Dino Ciccarelli, and Mike Gartner.

EDIT: Just to clarify my point...Cam Neely was best known as a goal scorer. Since 1980, he is not even in the top 50 in total goals scored. If you include Neely as a physical winger who was a skilled goal scorer, you must also include Shanahan, Tocchet, Tkachuk, Anderson who all had seasons as good or better than Neely's best season and had more career goals. Verbeek, Ciccarelli, and Andreychuk are also in the discussion, albeit less physically imposing than the first group.

Edited March 22, 2007 by eva unit zero

[theman19 47]

after this discussion started to include the Soviets, not a single person mentioned Tretiak. Even though half of his career was pre-1980, the second part was still fantastic. In my opinion, he was the best goaltender in the world for 20 years.

i didn't include him because he didn't play in the nhl, a cop out i know, but that's the reason.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Scott Stevens does not get the respect he deserves so I'll add him as an honourable mention

[C-TownWing 0]

Really? because a lot of people think Brodeur is the best all time. and a lot of those who don't, think that he will be when he retires. I'd definitely take brodeur over the other two. If anything, more people (outside of buffalo and detroit) would question Hasek of the three.

I don't know if I buy that one--for pretty much the whole 2nd half of the 90s, you could've called Hasek the best player in hockey, goalie or not, and nobody would've batted an eye. 1993-2001: 8 seasons, 6 Vezinas, 2 Harts, 2 Pearsons, an Olympic gold. All behind, well, not a whole lot. He probably could've tacked on another Vezina and a Conn Smythe in 2001-02, but the absolutely stacked team he played for probably hurt him there. Even if he had never played for the Wings, Hasek would've been the first goalie on my list, even ahead of Roy.

Even throwing out all the trophies and accolades, I think back to both goalies in their prime. When your team played the Devils, the big question was whether you could beat the trap. When your team played the Sabres, it was whether you could get enough by Hasek to win.

No knock on Brodeur, he's probably in my top 10 Gs ever, just putting my argument out there.