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Babs calls out Hasek...what gives?


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#21 Zeta Power 40

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:57 AM

QUOTE(Offsides @ March 22, 2007 - 12:55PM) View Post
Babs calls out everyone else..who cares. Plus, I think the whole thing is overblown. Hasek made a mistake...he pointed it out, I don't think anyone thinks that everything is Hasek's fault.




well said that should end the thread.


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#22 shadow47

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:57 AM

Hasek didn't dive in the Van game to get a penalty...he was diving to make a save after he tried to stop the cycling by the Canucks after Detroit's defense proved ineffective at stopping it themselves. Here's an interesting tidbit from TSN...again fueling the "What is MB thinking?" philosophy.

per TSN.ca
There was a brief exchange between the coach and veteran goaltender during the second intermission when Babcock refused to let Hasek see the video replay afterwards, but apparently there were no harsh words exchanged.

I don't know who Babcock thinks he is, but when you've got Dom Hasek wanting to look at a replay, why not let him? Someone has a slight power trip going on.
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#23 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE(puckloo39 @ March 22, 2007 - 09:46AM) View Post

it won't. At least not on Hasek's part. I can't imagine anyone would think Hasek, who is famous for his concentration and attention to the game, needs a lesson. But whatever...

That wasn't a function of concentration, it was an error in judgement.

Hasek's play has been very good overal, but that's what can be so frustrating about Dom. He plays great, but can make a couple bad decisions that are easily avoidable that end up hurting the Wings.

So it's like he's really good at the hard part--making big saves, but occasionally flakes on the relatively easy part--Not wandering out of the net at the wrong time or taking a dive while the puck is in play.



#24 NomadFromKazoo

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE(UP2HERE @ March 22, 2007 - 11:28AM) View Post

Quote from my girlfriend who knows NOTHING about hockey,"Why is that goalie guy always wondering out of his net
and falling all over the place"


I disagree, Babcock did the right thing because it was not an isolated incident. Hasek has to stop flopping. The Wings hadn't called him out for it before, it was about time. And Babcock was dead on that everyone knows he's a flopper and that's why it's not called, this being a perfect example why.

I am no Hasek basher or defender of the refs.
- I have been a Hasek supporter since we signed him, I preferred him to any alternative we had
- I have a lot of issues with referees calling games
- And you're right he played a great game and kept in it.

But we are PAYING him to play goalie for us and none of this excuses that he gave away a free goal and is a flopper and flopped and he has to knock it off. He gave up a 100% chance at a goal for a roughly 20% chance at a goal assuming the flop was even called.
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#25 shadow47

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:07 PM

QUOTE(NomadFromKazoo @ March 22, 2007 - 08:59AM) View Post

I disagree, Babcock did the right thing because it was not an isolated incident. Hasek has to stop flopping. The Wings hadn't called him out for it before, it was about time. And Babcock was dead on that everyone knows he's a flopper and that's why it's not called, this being a perfect example why.

I am no Hasek basher or defender of the refs.
- I have been a Hasek supporter since we signed him, I preferred him to any alternative we had
- I have a lot of issues with referees calling games
- And you're right he played a great game and kept in it.

But we are PAYING him to play goalie for us and none of this excuses that he gave away a free goal and is a flopper and flopped and he has to knock it off. He gave up a 100% chance at a goal for a roughly 20% chance at a goal assuming the flop was even called.


Times Hasek's flops have resulted in a powerplay for the Wings this season: numerous
Times Hasek's flops have resulted directly in a goal for the opposition: 1

So I'm not sure why Babcock feels the need to make a big deal out of this since it's helping the team. And it's pretty ridiculous that fans think you can just weed out a mistake here and there and get a perfect player...the whole game is a neverending series of decisions, all with the potential to result in "mistakes". The fact that DH plays with so few is a tribute to his skill in the crease...in short it's easy to highlight the mistakes and ignore the plays he makes look like nothing. I'm just saying there was no reason to say anything in the papers...Babc should just keep quiet and work on the part of his team that actually NEEDS his "coaching".

Edited: to include quotations marks where appropriate

Edited by shadow47, 22 March 2007 - 12:12 PM.

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#26 Crymson

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:07 PM

The dive was a bad idea. In my mind, goalies should be penalized for this.

In any event, you can be sure Hasek won't do it again. As we all know, he has a ferocious work ethic and incredibly high expectations for himself. I expect a massive game next time around, though admittedly he has played very well lately; I can't say the same for our D, especially Daniil I'm afraid.

#27 Echolalia

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:08 PM

I'm in full support of Babcock's move. When you're this close to the playoffs you need to get rid of those habits as early as possible. If that was a game 7 it would all be over.
Don't get me wrong, I also believe a big part of the reason we lost was because of how messy everyone else played- but you better believe they're going to get whats coming to them also; just in the form of a tough practice or two

#28 TheWestWing

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:09 PM

Floppinator flops and lets in a goal. We lose.

Stop trying to draw penalties. Just play the game. If we score we win. I didn't care for all the penalties in the last couple, but what can you do? Trying to draw something is stoopid and wrong. And if you do get lucky enuf to draw one, well with our PP sucking beyond bellief, perhaps we're at a disadvantage since we're the best in the league
5 on 5 based on GF%. And based on that stat, and hopefully the whistles get a break in the playoffs, we win on stats (like we almost always do).

#29 edicius

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE(haroldsnepsts @ March 22, 2007 - 12:59PM) View Post

That wasn't a function of concentration, it was an error in judgement.

Hasek's play has been very good overal, but that's what can be so frustrating about Dom. He plays great, but can make a couple bad decisions that are easily avoidable that end up hurting the Wings.

So it's like he's really good at the hard part--making big saves, but occasionally flakes on the relatively easy part--Not wandering out of the net at the wrong time or taking a dive while the puck is in play.


And ironically, isn't that what most people use as justification for their dislike of Ozzie? He'll make big save after big save...and then let in a stinker. It happens to all goaltenders.

Dom made an error in judgment. A goal was scored as a result. The person that's probably the most pissed off about it...is Dom himself.

That said, Dom has to realize that the refs are rarely going to call such things in his favor, so embellishing - or we can just call a dive a dive - isn't going to help us. It's more than likely going to hurt us, either in the form of a goal against or a diving penalty against. Does that mean it should be open season on Dom for other teams? Hell no. But he needs to choose his battles.

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#30 Offsides

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:11 PM

Hasek is a great goalie, but not above making mistakes.

A person like Hasek always wants to be improving his game, being sharper, and learning a new trick or two to stay ahead of the competition. So, if there's critisism due him, I'm sure he will take it and realize that people who are good enough to improve will be critisized.

Just because he doesn't often make mistakes doesn't mean that he should be ABOVE any critisism.

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#31 puckloo39

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:13 PM

QUOTE(shadow47 @ March 22, 2007 - 11:57AM) View Post

Hasek didn't dive in the Van game to get a penalty...he was diving to make a save after he tried to stop the cycling by the Canucks after Detroit's defense proved ineffective at stopping it themselves. Here's an interesting tidbit from TSN...again fueling the "What is MB thinking?" philosophy.

per TSN.ca
There was a brief exchange between the coach and veteran goaltender during the second intermission when Babcock refused to let Hasek see the video replay afterwards, but apparently there were no harsh words exchanged.

I don't know who Babcock thinks he is, but when you've got Dom Hasek wanting to look at a replay, why not let him? Someone has a slight power trip going on.



Babcock thinks he's the coach. tongue.gif

Dom's dealt with much worse egos than Mike's in his career, I wouldn't worry about their relationship. I don't think Dom dove either, he did get hit. I don't expect Babcock to admit that, either. If the coach expects Hasek to stop playing his game the way he plays it, then he may want to bench Dom for the rest of the season. People who know nothing about hockey probably DO think Hasek's apparent madness has no method to it. wink.gif

As for paying Dom to make the saves, he does his job and then some. And they are not paying him all that much, considering what they're getting in return. This whole thing is out of proportion, thanks to the media, but I guarantee you that the announcers at the game tonight will make a huge deal of it, and just to try and make the whole situation look even worse. It eludes me what they think they're getting out of this, aside from hearing themselves talk.

I do believe Hasek is professional enough to rise above this, at least. thumbup.gif

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#32 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE(edicius @ March 22, 2007 - 10:10AM) View Post

And ironically, isn't that what most people use as justification for their dislike of Ozzie? He'll make big save after big save...and then let in a stinker. It happens to all goaltenders.

Dom made an error in judgment. A goal was scored as a result. The person that's probably the most pissed off about it...is Dom himself.

That said, Dom has to realize that the refs are rarely going to call such things in his favor, so embellishing - or we can just call a dive a dive - isn't going to help us. It's more than likely going to hurt us, either in the form of a goal against or a diving penalty against. Does that mean it should be open season on Dom for other teams? Hell no. But he needs to choose his battles.

There's a difference. Letting in a soft goal isn't really an error in judgement. The goalie just didn't make the save.

I'm not really bashing Hasek. I think he's played great for the team this year and gives us a chance to win anytime he's in net.

But he can be so damn frustrating when he does something like that, because he's so good otherwise.

Like you said, he needs to choose his battles. Or more specifically, pick his spots.


#33 Gizmo

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE
it wasn't hasek's fault we lost the game. the team as a whole has been playing like lang.
Agreed. It wasn't Dom's fault that the offense only scored two goals west of the Mississippi in the last week.

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#34 OsGOD

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE(Crymson @ March 22, 2007 - 01:07PM) View Post

The dive was a bad idea. In my mind, goalies should be penalized for this.


Good point... and ultimately, he did pay the biggest price... intentionally diving while letting in the GWG.

I do feel that had Calgary not scored, a penalty should have still been called... which was not the case as far as i could tell.



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#35 Crymson

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE(Echolalia @ March 22, 2007 - 11:08AM) View Post

I'm in full support of Babcock's move. When you're this close to the playoffs you need to get rid of those habits as early as possible. If that was a game 7 it would all be over.
Don't get me wrong, I also believe a big part of the reason we lost was because of how messy everyone else played- but you better believe they're going to get whats coming to them also; just in the form of a tough practice or two


True; the entire team played a horrible game. They beat us at our own puck-possession style.

#36 Heaton

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE
If the coach expects Hasek to stop playing his game the way he plays it, then he may want to bench Dom for the rest of the season.


Heh, typical. Another Hasek is a victim and the league is out to get him attitude.

Where did you get out of all of this that Babcock wants to get him to change his game? Babcock just wants Hasek to stop diving and giving up those weak goals.

Diving and embellishing penalties are not part of his game.
Moral victories are for losers.

#37 Crymson

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE(TheWestWing @ March 22, 2007 - 11:09AM) View Post

Floppinator flops and lets in a goal. We lose.

Stop trying to draw penalties. Just play the game. If we score we win. I didn't care for all the penalties in the last couple, but what can you do? Trying to draw something is stoopid and wrong. And if you do get lucky enuf to draw one, well with our PP sucking beyond bellief, perhaps we're at a disadvantage since we're the best in the league
5 on 5 based on GF%. And based on that stat, and hopefully the whistles get a break in the playoffs, we win on stats (like we almost always do).


Our power play has been bad for the last two games. In the several games before that, it was roaring. I don't exactly know what you're talking about, as such. Nice attempt to massively generalize in your drive toward a black and white, negative conclusion.




In the end, Hasek isn't perfect. This is naturally true. However, he's a whole lot less imperfect than almost every other goalie out there, and that's what counts. I daresay we could say the same thing about Osgood.

#38 Covenant

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:23 PM

QUOTE(UP2HERE @ March 22, 2007 - 12:28PM) View Post

Quote from my girlfriend who knows NOTHING about hockey,"Why is that goalie guy always wondering out of his net
and falling all over the place"

biggrin.gif EXACTLY what my girlfriend has said numerous times. I try to explain that's his renegade style, she doesn't get it. As much as she says she doesn't like hockey, she's literally screaming at Dom to get back in his net! biggrin.gif

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#39 shadow47

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE(Heaton @ March 22, 2007 - 09:19AM) View Post

Heh, typical. Another Hasek is a victim and the league is out to get him attitude.

Where did you get out of all of this that Babcock wants to get him to change his game? Babcock just wants Hasek to stop diving and giving up those weak goals.

Diving and embellishing penalties are not part of his game.


"Goals"? Pretty sure this is the one time this year that his dives have resulted in a goal against. Usually there's an opposing player headed to the box. For that reason alone he shouldn't stop diving, since no other player in the league will.
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#40 Heaton

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:25 PM

QUOTE(shadow47 @ March 22, 2007 - 01:24PM) View Post

"Goals"? Pretty sure this is the one time this year that his dives have resulted in a goal against. Usually there's an opposing player headed to the box. For that reason alone he shouldn't stop diving, since no other player in the league will.


It's been more than once, Babcock wouldn't blast him in the papers for a one time thing.
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