Anaheim Ducks, one of the toughest teams ever?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Are they?

Just some fun stuff for the fight fans out there

They've got 66 fighting majors this year, over 20 more fights than Edmonton who sit in 2nd at 43.

Here's there tally for the season

George Parros 6-5, 215 (16 fights)

Shawn Thornton 6-1, 202 (11)

Travis Moen 6-2, 208 (9)

Sean O'Donnell 6-3, 230 (4)

Joe DiPenta 6-2, 220 (2)

Ryan Getzlaf 6-4, 210 (2)

Dustin Penner 6-4, 240 (2)

Francois Beauchemin 6-0, 214 (2)

Chris Pronger 6-6, 220 (1)

Abberrations

Chris Kunitz (1 fight)

Corey Perry (1 fight)

Players they lost

Todd Fedoruk (4)

Shane O'Brien (12)

Players they added

Brad May 6-1, 205 (10 fights all with Colorado)

Basically, every game they have the potential to dress:

Heavyweight: Parros

Light Heavyweight: May

2nd tier Light Heavy: Thornton, Moen, O'Donnell

Capable Fighters

DiPenta, Penner, Pronger, Beauchemin

I just thought it odd to see a team doing as well as us that plays with alot of speed and tempo yet still employs a no-talent enforcer along with a multitude of gritty, fighting type players to compliment their skill.

Notable Contenders

1997 Blackhawks (Cummins, Probert, Chiccone, Russel, McRea)

1999 Blackhawks (Probert, Simpson, Brown, Bonvie, Zmolek, Janssens, Manson, Russell, Murray)

2004 Maple Leafs (Domi, Perrot, Belak, Marchment, Nolan, Roberts, McCabe, Tucker)

1998 Canucks (Brashear, McCallister, Walker, Scatchard, Odjick, Staois, Ciccone, McCabe, Bertuzzi, Huscroft, Strudwick, May)

1991 Capitals (Alan May, Iafrate, Hunter, Kypreos, Kordic, Leach)

After some research its pretty clear they aren't the scariest lineup ever but in the modern era of hockey it'll be surprising to see many teams that can surpass the toughness of this years' Ducks team.

[Viperar 16]

and just to think, we finally stepped up and fought them, instead of some other team...we got balls

[arnoldbuck 0]

No doubt they are tough. And they can score. Like most of the west, gunna be interesting to see who makes it out of the playoffs.

Who would be our toughest team? What year? Who was on it?

[alpo 0]

they definitly have a lot of team toughness, but i think the icetime will wear their stars out in the playoffs, when you cannot afford the extra penalties that enforcer type players often get when they have to play regular shifts.

Despite having some of the best icetime hogs in the game, the team lacks in that 4th line depth department, and has had very little scoring outside of their top guys.

But yeah, toughest team this season for sure, ever is stretching it.

Edited March 28, 2007 by alpo

[rick zombo 3,739]

Anaheim lack depth, on paper anyway. It might be their downfall.

[timothy1997 0]

ok this topic struck a nerve.

While the Ducks are a very physical team, probably toughest this season, they are not even close to being the best ever.

The rules are changed to prevent teams from clutching, grabbing, holding and countless other things you dare wouldnt do to a stranger in the street unless you have a thing for jail time. To me, to find the toughest team in NHL history...look no further than the Broad Street Bullies of the 1970s. They reached records in penalty minutes that are never going to be matched nor broke and rightfully earned their nickname.

Edited March 28, 2007 by timothy1997

[toby91_ca 620]

I think you'd have to have a look at some Boston and Philadelphia teams back in history to find the toughest team ever.

[StaticWithABeat 0]

There's still something to be said for toughness and intimidation, even in this skill-oriented NHL. Anaheim uses it effectively and it has been a big asset for them this season. The playoffs will be interesting...if someone can shut down their top line and powerplay, they will be in big trouble. As has been said, they lack scoring depth and it could be their undoing, but at the same time, they have a lot of big, aggressive guys who will be a nightmare to play against in a long, grueling playoff series, especially for smaller teams like Minnesota and Detroit.

[StaticWithABeat 0]

ok this topic struck a nerve.

While the Ducks are a very physical team, probably toughest this season, they are not even close to being the best ever.

The rules are changed to prevent teams from clutching, grabbing, holding and countless other things you dare wouldnt do to a stranger in the street unless you have a thing for jail time. To me, to find the toughest team in NHL history...look no further than the Broad Street Bullies of the 1970s. They reached records in penalty minutes that are never going to be matched nor broke and rightfully earned their nickname.

I think it's a matter of interpretation...If you had a tough-guy battle between 06-07 ANA and 74-75 PHI, my money would solidly be on Anaheim:

ANA:

Moen: 6'2" 208

O'Donnell: 6'3" 228

Parros: 6'5" 215

Thornton: 6'1" 202

Pronger: 6'6" 210

O'Brien: 6'2" 235

PHI:

Schultz: 6'1" 185

Clarke: 5'10" 175

Van Impe: 5'10" 200

Kelly: 5'10" 200

Dornhoefer: 6'1" 175

Saleski: 6'2" 186

If Anaheim's tough guys played like the Broad Street Bullies did, most of the league would probably be dead. The game is so different today that it's hard to make a direct comparison...If you're looking for the team that was the toughest in relation to the time they played, it's clearly the Flyers of the 70s. If you're looking at the team that is the overall toughest regardless of time period, then Anaheim might have a case.

[Heaton 1]

Ever? No.

[Flip-check 6]

If Anaheim's tough guys played like the Broad Street Bullies did, most of the league would probably be dead. The game is so different today that it's hard to make a direct comparison...If you're looking for the team that was the toughest in relation to the time they played, it's clearly the Flyers of the 70s. If you're looking at the team that is the overall toughest regardless of time period, then Anaheim might have a case.

Man... just wait until we can play the '07 Ducks against the Broadstreet Bullies on your ps3! That'll be the decisive match-up of the century.

But actually, yeah. Also, I wouldn't be surprised with the physical strength, training, and other differences of the modern day if some select fights between the two wouldn't be sure knock-downs. You never know though.

[clutchngrab 12]

ok this topic struck a nerve.

While the Ducks are a very physical team, probably toughest this season, they are not even close to being the best ever.

The rules are changed to prevent teams from clutching, grabbing, holding and countless other things you dare wouldnt do to a stranger in the street unless you have a thing for jail time. To me, to find the toughest team in NHL history...look no further than the Broad Street Bullies of the 1970s. They reached records in penalty minutes that are never going to be matched nor broke and rightfully earned their nickname.

right on. I vaguely remember the downright fear teams had when they played the flyers. Dave "The Hammer" Shultz was unstoppable.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

No doubt they are tough. And they can score. Like most of the west, gunna be interesting to see who makes it out of the playoffs.

Who would be our toughest team? What year? Who was on it?

Wings, Prolly....

1991 Probert, McKay, Kocur (do you really have to go any further than that LOL) Primeau, Gallant, Chiasson, Vial

1994 Probert, McCarty, Primeau, Carkner and to a lesser extent, Dallas Drake, Lapointe, Vladdy

Any Wings teams after this really didn't have any guys who scared you

[Hockey13Playa 240]

I agree with everyone that has stated that they are a tough physical team.

But however, not the toughest or best teams ever.

[CloudConnected 0]

I think it's a matter of interpretation...If you had a tough-guy battle between 06-07 ANA and 74-75 PHI, my money would solidly be on Anaheim:

ANA:

Moen: 6'2" 208

O'Donnell: 6'3" 228

Parros: 6'5" 215

Thornton: 6'1" 202

Pronger: 6'6" 210

O'Brien: 6'2" 235

PHI:

Schultz: 6'1" 185

Clarke: 5'10" 175

Van Impe: 5'10" 200

Kelly: 5'10" 200

Dornhoefer: 6'1" 175

Saleski: 6'2" 186

If Anaheim's tough guys played like the Broad Street Bullies did, most of the league would probably be dead. The game is so different today that it's hard to make a direct comparison...If you're looking for the team that was the toughest in relation to the time they played, it's clearly the Flyers of the 70s. If you're looking at the team that is the overall toughest regardless of time period, then Anaheim might have a case.

I totally agree it's so hard to compare against eras. Supplements and training have come so far in the last thirty years that it's nigh impossible to say who would win. I mean, the Broad Street Bullies played in an era where the preferred pregame meal was a hearty steak. One could argue that if these Anaheim guys were around back then then they would be a fraction of the size they are now. And one could argue all of the Flyers could add twenty to thirty pounds of muscle with modern training techniques and supplements.

It's all speculative, but I would have to hold out to see if Anaheim's toughness were to win them anything, because Philly won their titles on their toughness.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

right on. I vaguely remember the downright fear teams had when they played the flyers. Dave "The Hammer" Shultz was unstoppable.

Well, that was like 500 years ago. By today's standards Schultz would be below the league average for size.

Can you imagine Schultz whipping up on Bob Probert in his heyday? Not too mention the fact that Probert now gets dwarfed by guys in the league that would absolutely kill Schultz like Boogaard, Laraque, Brashear, etc.....

Yeah, the old Flyers teams were tough and so were alot of Bruins teams in the 70's with guys like Cashman but c'mon, those guys played in an era where just about everybody could handle themselves and just about everybody was in the same class. They didn't have the specialization we today with big league fighters.

You can take any team from the 60's, 70's and 80's and i'll take

Andrew Peters

Derek Boogaard

Georges Laraque

Donald Brashear

and my guys would wipe the floor with them.

[toby91_ca 620]

I think it's a matter of interpretation...If you had a tough-guy battle between 06-07 ANA and 74-75 PHI, my money would solidly be on Anaheim:

ANA:

Moen: 6'2" 208

O'Donnell: 6'3" 228

Parros: 6'5" 215

Thornton: 6'1" 202

Pronger: 6'6" 210

O'Brien: 6'2" 235

PHI:

Schultz: 6'1" 185

Clarke: 5'10" 175

Van Impe: 5'10" 200

Kelly: 5'10" 200

Dornhoefer: 6'1" 175

Saleski: 6'2" 186

If Anaheim's tough guys played like the Broad Street Bullies did, most of the league would probably be dead. The game is so different today that it's hard to make a direct comparison...If you're looking for the team that was the toughest in relation to the time they played, it's clearly the Flyers of the 70s. If you're looking at the team that is the overall toughest regardless of time period, then Anaheim might have a case.

You can't necessarily equate size with toughness. Lemieux was huge, but I wouldn't call him all that tough.

Philadelphia had a really tough team and really great team in terms of winning for a long time, their stats are pretty impressive.

73/74 - 112 pts, 1,740 PIM - won cup

74/75 - 113 pts, 1,953 PIM - won cup

75/76 - 118 pts, 1,970 PIM - cup finalist

76/77 - 112pts, 1,541 PIM

77/78 - 105 pts, 1,662 PIM

78/79 - 95 pts, 1,526 PIM

79/80 - 116 pts, 1,818 PIM - cup finalist

80/81 - 97 pts, 2,581 PIM

81/82 - 87 pts, 2,471 PIM

82/83 - 106 pts, 1,326 PIM

83/84 - 98 pts, 1,482 PIM

84/85 - 113 pts, 1,527 PIM - cup finalist

85/86 - 110 pts, 2,015 PIM

86/87 - 100 pts, 2,068 PIM - cup finalist

Compare these stats to Anahiem, who will likely finish with around 1,100 penalty minutes or less this year.

Looking at the stats is pretty amazing if you think about it. For those 14 years, they toped 100 points 10 times. They actually toped 80 points 17 years in a row.

[arnoldbuck 0]

^^^ Lookin at those PM numbers above it blows my mind. I mean, I get frustrated these days with the amnount of penalties called. But I suppose those were a lot more 5 min and 10 min penalties.

[toby91_ca 620]

^^^ Lookin at those PM numbers above it blows my mind. I mean, I get frustrated these days with the amnount of penalties called. But I suppose those were a lot more 5 min and 10 min penalties.

What you really need to do is compare those stats to other teams around the same timeframe, they were consistently at or near the top in PIM. The PIM really rose are were quite high between 1985-1994 and then began to come down again. I think World War III broke out in 1988 when 15 of the 21 teams had more than 2,000 PIM, the lowest in the league was over 1,700. Compare that to 1968 when the average was 750 PIM per team (it was only a 74 game schedule, but that's not significantly different than the 80 game schedule in 1988).

[Mark THS 2]

Andrew Peters

Derek Boogaard

Georges Laraque

Donald Brashear

and my guys would wipe the floor with them.

While that list is impressive because of size and strength, all 4 of those names lack an intangible "crazy factor" possessed by guys like Fotiu, Probert, Schultz, etc etc. Guys like Laraque and Brashear fight for different reasons than guys of the bygone era. They fight for momentum and for heirarchy. A guy like Nicky Fotiu just fought because he was a damned lunatic. Now I'm not saying that a prime Fotiu is going to fight a prime Laraque. The sheer physics of it are insane- but that intangible 'crazy' factor would put a freakish spin on era vs era.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Mark THS

[theman19 47]

anyone who'd say the ducks are the toughest team in history havn't been fans for very long.

and the whole arugment about size automatically equals toughness never saw the flyers or the bruins play in the 70's anyway.

[Mark THS 2]

^^^ Lookin at those PM numbers above it blows my mind. I mean, I get frustrated these days with the amnount of penalties called. But I suppose those were a lot more 5 min and 10 min penalties.

On the contrary- they were far less apt to hand out misconducts and FM's in that era. In fact, if you put on a s***ty fight, often times they would just slap each combatant with double roughing minors. Nowadays you dont even have to drop you gloves to get a 5 minute major.

Also, in this era, if youre the instigator you get slapped with a 17 minute PIM package. 20 years ago, that was unheard of. You could jump a guy and only walk away with 5.

I'd venture to say that with todays habit of handing out instigators and misconducts, tough teams of the 70's could have easily racked upwards of 3500-4000 pims

[arnoldbuck 0]

What you really need to do is compare those stats to other teams around the same timeframe, they were consistently at or near the top in PIM. The PIM really rose are were quite high between 1985-1994 and then began to come down again. I think World War III broke out in 1988 when 15 of the 21 teams had more than 2,000 PIM, the lowest in the league was over 1,700. Compare that to 1968 when the average was 750 PIM per team (it was only a 74 game schedule, but that's not significantly different than the 80 game schedule in 1988).

Haha, WWIII. I suppose you are right ... one of those 'different era' things. Though, still seems crazy you could have that many penalty minutes. Were penalty boxes bigger in the 70's-80's to accomidate more people?

[StaticWithABeat 0]

You can't necessarily equate size with toughness. Lemieux was huge, but I wouldn't call him all that tough.

Very true...All I'm saying is that regardless of individual fighting skill, today's Anaheim players are much bigger and stronger than the BSB's, which is why if someone wanted to argue that Anaheim is tougher than them on a straight up team-against-team basis, I would understand their position. If you were arguing toughness in relation to the time they existed, then I think we would all agree it's the Flyers by a mile.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Didn't the Russians refuse to come back on the ice after intermission when they played the Flyers?

Case closed.