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Good job Babs; Now win or else


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#21 rwfan007

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE(Never Forget Mac #25 @ March 28, 2007 - 03:33PM) View Post

Wings fans are spoiled.

It's Cup or Bust for us every year......and that just isn't realistic.

It is just that the talent we assemble every year is Stanley Cup talent and anything short of winning it is a disappointment because we assemble such a good team. The reason we have lost the past couple years is not because of our lack of talent, it has been our lack of being able to shove back. We were thoroughly out-muscled and lost because of that. This year, we have a better all-around team. We have skill, grit, and defense. Plus both our goalies have earned a ring themselves. Thats my 2 cents on this topic.

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#22 YoungGuns1340

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 02:48 PM

Clearys a 20 goal scorer, Franzen has been awesome, Hasek has been reliable, Lilja is more physical, Schneider is more scrappy, Hudler and Flip have a combined 25 goals, Datsyuk is playing awesome defense, Hank is being his usual self, Kopecky was a little sparkplug when he was in the lineup, Lebda has been solid, Markov has been what is expected.

I think Babs has done a great job getting top performances out of players. This team was not supposed to be a top contender at the end of the 06-07 season, and here we are.

There are no easy teams, and before Babs gets the ax, Id like to see what he can do with a more gritty on-ice product. If he still fails then, we can let him go.

QUOTE(rwfan007 @ March 28, 2007 - 03:41PM) View Post

It is just that the talent we assemble every year is Stanley Cup talent and anything short of winning it is a disappointment because we assemble such a good team. The reason we have lost the past couple years is not because of our lack of talent, it has been our lack of being able to shove back. We were thoroughly out-muscled and lost because of that. This year, we have a better all-around team. We have skill, grit, and defense. Plus both our goalies have earned a ring themselves. Thats my 2 cents on this topic.



We only have grit in comparison to the last few Red Wings teams. But Nashville, Calgary, Anaheim, and San Jose have a MAJOR advantage over us in terms of grit while still being skilled teams. Detroit is still one of the softest teams in the league.

Edited by YoungGuns1340, 28 March 2007 - 02:49 PM.

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#23 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE(Never Forget Mac #25 @ March 28, 2007 - 03:33PM) View Post

Wings fans are spoiled.

It's Cup or Bust for us every year......and that just isn't realistic.

Not realistic....but very much the case. The Wings ownership may view being in the final four as a very successful season, not me as a die hard fan. I don't sell tickets. I don't sell Wings garb. I don't operate a veding station at the Joe. Very successful season to who? I didn't get to run around my neighborhood scaring neighbors completley drunk banging pots and pans screaming "We Won The Cup!!!"

Success is measured by results. To measure success in the NHL means only ONE THING, the Stanley Cup. I agree, it's very nice to get deep into the playoffs, but I wouldn't say being in the final four teams in the NHL is a very successful season. Good season-yes. But who will care about that in five years--NADA-Nobody.

And yes, I (or we Wings fans) may be "spoiled" to expect this, but we've created are own situation. We give A LOT to our hockey team in this town-and what they give back is dependent on there success throughout the season and ultimatley the playoffs. And just as it says in the Wings locker room, "To whom much is given, much is expected!" Don't hate on us cause we strive for the ulitimate goal of winning the Stanley Cup every year. And please don't give me this warm and fuzzy "it's just great to be a fan, and we love our players and there contributions to the community, they're such great guys, they try really hard, etc...." I'm not dating them so I could care less if they're nice guys and try really hard. It's the NHL--See Charles Darwin.

Edited by Learn2LuvIt, 28 March 2007 - 02:51 PM.

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#24 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 02:51 PM

QUOTE(rwfan007 @ March 28, 2007 - 02:41PM) View Post

It is just that the talent we assemble every year is Stanley Cup talent and anything short of winning it is a disappointment because we assemble such a good team. The reason we have lost the past couple years is not because of our lack of talent, it has been our lack of being able to shove back. We were thoroughly out-muscled and lost because of that. This year, we have a better all-around team. We have skill, grit, and defense. Plus both our goalies have earned a ring themselves. Thats my 2 cents on this topic.

This is a better way of putting it, and yes this team is better equipped for a deep playoff run than the past 3.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#25 Offsides

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 02:56 PM

QUOTE(Never Forget Mac #25 @ March 28, 2007 - 03:33PM) View Post

Wings fans are spoiled.

It's Cup or Bust for us every year......and that just isn't realistic.


clap.gif Totally agree. I really hope we win this year, but I'll be happy if we give it our all, you know?
We can't win every year...we can't win every other year, and we can't win even every 3 years. I'm at least happy we have a good, exciting team, who wins most nights!

Whether or not Babs is back will not be 100% determined on if we win the Cup. The DRW staff is not going to make a rash decision, and knows more than any of us what kind of things go into winning the Cup. The Wings will only change up if they can get someone who is better than Babs.

Edited by Offsides, 28 March 2007 - 02:58 PM.

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#26 Kp-Wings

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:01 PM

I have faith in the Wings. We are a much tougher team than last year, with the additions of Markov, Bertuzzi, and Calder, and we also have a proven playoff goalie in Hasek.

Lets Go Wings!

#27 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE(Learn2LuvIt @ March 28, 2007 - 02:50PM) View Post

Not realistic....but very much the case. The Wings ownership may view being in the final four as a very successful season, not me as a die hard fan. I don't sell tickets. I don't sell Wings garb. I don't operate a veding station at the Joe. Very successful season to who? I didn't get to run around my neighborhood scaring neighbors completley drunk banging pots and pans screaming "We Won The Cup!!!"

Success is measured by results. To measure success in the NHL means only ONE THING, the Stanley Cup.
I agree, it's very nice to get deep into the playoffs, but I wouldn't say being in the final four teams in the NHL is a very successful season. Good season-yes. But who will care about that in five years--NADA-Nobody.

And yes, I (or we Wings fans) may be "spoiled" to expect this, but we've created are own situation. We give A LOT to our hockey team in this town-and what they give back is dependent on there success throughout the season and ultimatley the playoffs. And just as it says in the Wings locker room, "To whom much is given, much is expected!" Don't hate on us cause we strive for the ulitimate goal of winning the Stanley Cup every year. And please don't give me this warm and fuzzy "it's just great to be a fan, and we love our players and there contributions to the community, they're such great guys, they try really hard, etc...." I'm not dating them so I could care less if they're nice guys and try really hard. It's the NHL--See Charles Darwin.

No offense, the majority of your post couldn't be further from the truth IMO, especially the bolded parts. Is that the case for the New York Islanders this year? No, its just to make the playoffs. To sit here and say its Cup or Bust, and that success only means one thing is completely false.

When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me. Now of course I agree with, "To whom much is given, much is expected!" The problem with your reasoning is that it doesn't take into effect that this is *HOCKEY*. Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.

That being said, with the changes this team has made, there is no reason they shouldn't go deep in the playoffs, and god willing, they win it all, but to say that if they get beat by Anaheim in the WCF's or Buffalo in the SCF's is a failure is just plain being spoiled.

It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#28 rick zombo

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:06 PM

The best way to analyse Babcock's success is to compare his performance to Scotty Bowman's tenure in Detroit.

Bowman had a much better team. He lost in the first round in 94, the cup finals in 95, and the conference finals in 96, before finally winning the cup in 97.

The key is, management contimued to tweak the roster until Bowman was happy.

As Ryan Barnes! says, it would be a mistake to let Babcock go, even if Detroit lose in the first round to San Jose. Babcock is slowly forging a new identity for this Wings team. Keep tweaking the roster until it works.

Keep Babcock.
"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#29 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:11 PM

^ And yet some people think its cup or bust every seaon no matter what logo is on the front of your jersey.

Gofigure

Edited by Never Forget Mac #25, 28 March 2007 - 03:12 PM.

It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#30 Offsides

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:27 PM

The real truth is that there could be 3 teams in this league that are all equally fantastic and only 1 is going to win. Should the other 2 be dismantled?

This is hockey...a million things could determine the success of a team..injuries, bad bounces, and other intangibles that would be impossible to estimate.

I think Babs has been doing a good job. I don't see why we'd get rid of him because of 1 or 2 losing post seasons...everyone deserves a couple of chances...usually winning is a process. Figure out what works and what doesn't. Every time we lose we find out what doesn't work...and every time we get new people we go back to square 1 not knowing how they will fit in the system, etc. That's why you have to pick and choose what you change...and I'm happy that I believe in my heart that is what Ken Holland will do. He won't make rash decisions, but small things that will improve the team.

That's why, imo, Babs will be back next year, rain or shine. Barring something crazy happening.

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#31 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:31 PM

QUOTE(Never Forget Mac #25 @ March 28, 2007 - 04:02PM) View Post

No offense, the majority of your post couldn't be further from the truth IMO, especially the bolded parts. Is that the case for the New York Islanders this year? No, its just to make the playoffs. To sit here and say its Cup or Bust, and that success only means one thing is completely false.

When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me. Now of course I agree with, "To whom much is given, much is expected!" The problem with your reasoning is that it doesn't take into effect that this is *HOCKEY*. Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.

That being said, with the changes this team has made, there is no reason they shouldn't go deep in the playoffs, and god willing, they win it all, but to say that if they get beat by Anaheim in the WCF's or Buffalo in the SCF's is a failure is just plain being spoiled.

I appreciate your statements above. I however had to read it four times to seperate the random sentences thrown in. unsure.gif
Point One: When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me.--????OK. I guess I never researched everything you've "said" before, and furthermore, I never referred to anything you've ever posted before. Were you using your "outside voice" to speak to someone besides me??
Point Two: Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.--???. This is so random I guess I don't know what your point is. My response to the "bad bounces" statement is, if your teams season is ended by a bad bounce, your team really wasn't going to play much longer anyway. I don't care how many people the puck bounces of off??(three...I guess??). Basketball--I don't get it...did I miss something...was there a comparison to basketball?? Presidents trophy doesn't get to hoist the cup (no Sh#@!!...thanks for bringing us all up to speed on how the hockey playoffs work).

Thank you for making me laugh and realize that paying attention in school was a good thing.
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#32 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:44 PM

Oh please, you dunce, team's seasons live and die on bounces and breaks every year. That's hockey. An evenly matched game can go down to lucky play. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win.

QUOTE
Thank you for making me laugh and realize that paying attention in school was a good thing.

And this just makes you an *******.
"We've been in the same spot all year long. We won 50 games for the fourth year in a row. People think we're just hum-drum and boring.
No, you know what we are, we're good. You can't do what we do every single day and not be good." - Mike Babcock

#33 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:38 PM

QUOTE(Heroes of Hockeytown @ March 28, 2007 - 04:44PM) View Post

Oh please, you dunce, team's seasons live and die on bounces and breaks every year. That's hockey. An evenly matched game can go down to lucky play. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win.
And this just makes you an *******.

Thanks for your thoughts.
WOW....you seem very angry...so much that you direct personal attacks and profanity towards me. ohmy.gif
I wasn't trying to imply that NFM#25 was dumb, or his points were not valid (in fact...I even commented that I appreciated his points), his message was just so scattered that it took some focus to read through.

Dunce, huh. Ask around, in lieu of having any intellegent input to an argument,... some people often revert to personal attacks. No big deal, please don't let this get you down.

And to your point, in a seven game series, the best team at that time always wins. Please think about this before you fire off a profanity laced attack in my direction. I come to this forum for hockey and Wings intellect, nothing else.

Thanks again for your thoughts.


ENJOY THE RIDE

#34 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE(Learn2LuvIt @ March 28, 2007 - 03:31PM) View Post

I appreciate your statements above. I however had to read it four times to seperate the random sentences thrown in. unsure.gif
Point One: When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me.--????OK. I guess I never researched everything you've "said" before, and furthermore, I never referred to anything you've ever posted before. Were you using your "outside voice" to speak to someone besides me??

I was referring to you. This is what you said in one of your previous replies to me:

“And please don't give me this warm and fuzzy "it's just great to be a fan, and we love our players and there contributions to the community, they're such great guys, they try really hard, etc...." I'm not dating them so I could care less if they're nice guys and try really hard.”

If your going to tell me not to give the type of response you warned my not to in this above post, then you should prove to me where I’ve ever said something like that. Otherwise, don’t assume I’ll say something like that.

QUOTE(Learn2LuvIt @ March 28, 2007 - 03:31PM) View Post

Point Two: Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.--???. This is so random I guess I don't know what your point is. My response to the "bad bounces" statement is, if your teams season is ended by a bad bounce, your team really wasn't going to play much longer anyway. I don't care how many people the puck bounces of off??(three...I guess??). Basketball--I don't get it...did I miss something...was there a comparison to basketball?? Presidents trophy doesn't get to hoist the cup (no Sh#@!!...thanks for bringing us all up to speed on how the hockey playoffs work).

Thank you for making me laugh and realize that paying attention in school was a good thing.

nonono.gif

If you want a real response, give me a real one. I generally don't respond to this type of childish garbage, but since you posted one legitmate question in your response, I'll answer you:

The fact of the matter is that bad bounces sometimes are the difference in who moves on and who goes home. And you didn't even respond to my post about the Sabres woes last postseason (and I didn't even mention the flu bug that hit the Rangers last April).

The point that HOH made is very valid:

QUOTE(Heroes of Hockeytown)
team's seasons live and die on bounces and breaks every year. That's hockey. An evenly matched game can go down to lucky play. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win.


The reason I brought up Basketball is because when 1 seed plays an 8, you can all but guarantee the 1 seed will make it through. It's not the case in the NHL. Obviously that was over your head.

Sidenote: Comments like these can make you look like an ass as well:
QUOTE(Learn2LuvIt)
Presidents trophy doesn't get to hoist the cup (no Sh#@!!...thanks for bringing us all up to speed on how the hockey playoffs work).

We were having a decent debate until you starting throwing stuff like this around.

Edited by Never Forget Mac #25, 28 March 2007 - 04:59 PM.

It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#35 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE(Learn2LuvIt @ March 28, 2007 - 05:38PM) View Post

I wasn't trying to imply that NFM#25 was dumb, or his points were not valid (in fact...I even commented that I appreciated his points), his message was just so scattered that it took some focus to read through.

Liar. That was an insult if I've ever seen one. Implying that the author did not pay attention in school is not conducive to civil discussion.

QUOTE
Dunce, huh. Ask around, in lieu of having any intellegent input to an argument,... some people often revert to personal attacks. No big deal, please don't let this get you down.

Wipe the scum out of your eyes and see that I made a very valid point.

QUOTE
And to your point, in a seven game series, the best team at that time always wins.

The '05 Sabres are a good example of why you're wrong.
"We've been in the same spot all year long. We won 50 games for the fourth year in a row. People think we're just hum-drum and boring.
No, you know what we are, we're good. You can't do what we do every single day and not be good." - Mike Babcock

#36 TheLegend19

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE(arnoldbuck @ March 28, 2007 - 02:44PM) View Post

by no stretch do I want this to play out ... but if we do go down in the first round. I pray that it is an absolute WAR on the ice. And everyone in the league know's it.

But back to the topic. It sucks to be in the posistion of the coach. Generally it's where the axe falls first. But who could replace Babs? What could they do different with the lineup we have?

I agree. The coach puts them in the position to win, but ultimately, the players have to want it. Last year, they did not. If they don't this year, I don't say fire Babs. I say fire the team.
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#37 Barrie

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 05:17 PM

QUOTE(rick zombo @ March 28, 2007 - 04:06PM) View Post

The best way to analyse Babcock's success is to compare his performance to Scotty Bowman's tenure in Detroit.

Bowman had a much better team. He lost in the first round in 94, the cup finals in 95, and the conference finals in 96, before finally winning the cup in 97.

The key is, management continued to tweak the roster until Bowman was happy.

As Ryan Barnes! says, it would be a mistake to let Babcock go, even if Detroit lose in the first round to San Jose. Babcock is slowly forging a new identity for this Wings team. Keep tweaking the roster until it works.

Keep Babcock.

I agree. It took 4 years for Bowman to win a cup, Babcock is only in year 2. Winning a Stanley Cup takes a few years. Babs is working to make us more playoff ready. I like what I see and I still want him around next year even if we lose in the 1st round.

I want to see the Wings win the Cup as much as the next guy, but there's no clear cut favorite. One of 6 teams can realistically take it.

QUOTE(Never Forget Mac #25 @ March 28, 2007 - 05:43PM) View Post

The reason I brought up Basketball is because when 1 seed plays an 8, you can all but guarantee the 1 seed will make it through. It's not the case in the NHL. Obviously that was over your head.

Right, which is why sometimes I find it funny that people make such a big deal when the 7th or 8th seeds take out 2nd and 1st. With the defensive systems teams are allowed to play, it happens every year in the NHL.
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#38 wingsfan40

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 05:23 PM

QUOTE(WingsFANstuckintheSOUTH @ March 28, 2007 - 12:41PM) View Post

Another first round loss and Detroit will have a new coach next season

without a doubt....

#39 FinRedWing

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 01:30 AM

QUOTE(rick zombo @ March 28, 2007 - 11:06PM) View Post

As Ryan Barnes! says, it would be a mistake to let Babcock go, even if Detroit lose in the first round to San Jose. Babcock is slowly forging a new identity for this Wings team. Keep tweaking the roster until it works.



QUOTE(Offsides @ March 28, 2007 - 11:27PM) View Post

I think Babs has been doing a good job. I don't see why we'd get rid of him because of 1 or 2 losing post seasons...


We're not spoiled after all? Are we scared and preparing for the worst?

Nah,I know you all hope and believe.
Well,most of you anyways. biggrin.gif


QUOTE(Barrie @ March 29, 2007 - 01:17AM) View Post

Right, which is why sometimes I find it funny that people make such a big deal when the 7th or 8th seeds take out 2nd and 1st. With the defensive systems teams are allowed to play, it happens every year in the NHL.


No s***.

Edited by FinRedWing, 29 March 2007 - 02:59 AM.

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#40 HockeyCrazy3033

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 12:32 PM

I really hope Babs stays around for a long time. I think he's a great, fiesty coach and he's exactly what the Wings need. He's a perfect fit for this team.
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