In line to netmind?

[sibiriak 84]

Can we get a screening process to avoid idiot posters on the boards???

No? Ok, well how about people stop trying to change the morons mind with there arguments?

There's an ignore button...

[imisssergei 0]

Defensive? Why, you didn't attack me or mine. There's no reason for me to be defensive. There is, however a reason for me to be irritated reading someone irrationally pusing an indefensible point in multiple threads, regardeless of the almost unanimous opposing opinion supported with valid evidence.

If you suggested replacing Hasek with a good young goalie, who is realistically available for the next season, then you'd have a leg to stand on. But bringing up Belfour or Theodore as possible replacements, and then trying to defend that suggestion by arguing that they are better than (or even comparable with) Dom, is beyond laughable. It's like if someone was seriously trying to prove that the sun is blue. Please, don't insult my intelligence.

Here is what I don't understand. Simply because I have a different opinon than the majority, I am wrong? I never said in acquiring Theodore that it was a move to make him the starter. He will be cheap, is no worse than any other real option the Wings will have, and you cannot take away the hardware he won. He does have a lot of talent. Has he proven himself the last 2 years? No, the only thing he has proven is that he lacks the confidence he had the year he claimed the MVP. I merely suggested that if the Wings acquired him, and he regained 75% of that form, he would be well worth it. And if he didn't, depending on his conract status, he could be sent to the minors, and Howard or Liv called up. And yes, I do feel it would be a gamble on him, but no more so than the gamble Dom would be. By the way, if you think Dom is going to settle for a preformance laden contract as he did this year, don't hold your breath. If you guys would actually read, you would realize Dom is costing us a lot more than the league minimum.

As for Belfour, this guy is a steady preformer. All of you Dom fans argue with Doms past. Well how can you deny Eddy's?! And lets not forget who mentored Dom in Chicago!! Obviously Eddy can help out our young guys just as much as a healthy Dom can. I say healthy, don't forget the distraction he was in his first return to the Wings while he was injured.

I love how any line of thinking other than the majority is wrong. Learn to think outside of the box. See the big picture. And get out once and a while!!!

[StaticWithABeat 0]

Ahh the joys of goalie threads...nothing brings out the hostility and bad vibes like a good old fashioned goaltender "debate."

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Wow, H-O-S-T-I-L-E!!!! I am almost afraid to speak my mind!! Here goes. I am sort of on the fence here. I am not a big Hasek fan, but I am not sure bringing in anyone is the answer. Afterall, looking at things realisticly, we can't afford J.S. Giguere as he will get around $6 million, that is if we want to retain Dats. I shutter at the idea of Hasek in net next season.

Theodore is an intersting option. I am not sure if I would be willing to give him anything more than the league minimum, and even at that it's a risk. There is talk that Minnesota is going to buy out Fernandez in favor of Backstrom, if that happens, Fernandez would be a nice upgrade in goal.

IMO Belfour would be a solid upgrade over Hasek, if for no other reason, he can actually skate lol. But seriously, I agree his stats are quite similiar to Hasek's, with Belfour playing on a horrible team in the Panthers. Joseph is also a great goaltender, but the knock on him is he can't win for a team that doesn't need a goalie to stand on his head to win games.

The bottom line is Hasek is not an elite goaltender anymore, and in all honesty isn't much better than Osgood. Yeah, Howard and Liv aren't proven at the NHL level, but they haven't had a chance. They need to be a backup for a year or so before they can really step in and play.

I don't think Hasek will get the job done this year, and I hope he doesn't return next season.

[eva unit zero 271]

Here is what I don't understand. Simply because I have a different opinon than the majority, I am wrong? I never said in acquiring Theodore that it was a move to make him the starter. He will be cheap, is no worse than any other real option the Wings will have, and you cannot take away the hardware he won. He does have a lot of talent. Has he proven himself the last 2 years? No, the only thing he has proven is that he lacks the confidence he had the year he claimed the MVP. I merely suggested that if the Wings acquired him, and he regained 75% of that form, he would be well worth it. And if he didn't, depending on his conract status, he could be sent to the minors, and Howard or Liv called up. And yes, I do feel it would be a gamble on him, but no more so than the gamble Dom would be. By the way, if you think Dom is going to settle for a preformance laden contract as he did this year, don't hold your breath. If you guys would actually read, you would realize Dom is costing us a lot more than the league minimum.

As for Belfour, this guy is a steady preformer. All of you Dom fans argue with Doms past. Well how can you deny Eddy's?! And lets not forget who mentored Dom in Chicago!! Obviously Eddy can help out our young guys just as much as a healthy Dom can. I say healthy, don't forget the distraction he was in his first return to the Wings while he was injured.

I love how any line of thinking other than the majority is wrong. Learn to think outside of the box. See the big picture. And get out once and a while!!!

Theodore will likely be had for not less than 2-3m. While the Wings likely wouldn't spend more than 1m to get him, another team like the Blues, Panthers, Coyotes, or Lightning might pony up that kind of cash or more to get him, and hope he returns to form.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

nm

Edited March 29, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Theodore will likely be had for not less than 2-3m. While the Wings likely wouldn't spend more than 1m to get him, another team like the Blues, Panthers, Coyotes, or Lightning might pony up that kind of cash or more to get him, and hope he returns to form.

If I am correct, the Lightning are already tied to what's his face from the Blue Jackets for a few years at too much. The Blues have good 'ol Manny, who did surprise me this year.

Do you really think Theodore would even draw that much attention? And at a 2-3mil tag? I can't see anyone offering him that much.

[eva unit zero 271]

If I am correct, the Lightning are already tied to what's his face from the Blue Jackets for a few years at too much. The Blues have good 'ol Manny, who did surprise me this year.

Do you really think Theodore would even draw that much attention? And at a 2-3mil tag? I can't see anyone offering him that much.

Theodore is only a couple of seasons removed from a 33-win season and a .919 save percentage. A team in search of strong goaltending that has a few bucks open under the cap might be willing to make that gamble for that kind of money. If Theodore returns to his 03-04 form, 2-3m is a bargain. If he returns to his 01-02 form, it's the deal of the year. And if he stays as is, it's less than half of what Chicago paid Khabibulin.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Theodore is only a couple of seasons removed from a 33-win season and a .919 save percentage. A team in search of strong goaltending that has a few bucks open under the cap might be willing to make that gamble for that kind of money. If Theodore returns to his 03-04 form, 2-3m is a bargain. If he returns to his 01-02 form, it's the deal of the year. And if he stays as is, it's less than half of what Chicago paid Khabibulin.

so why wouldn't the wings want to make a pitch at him?

[Barrie 900]

Theodore is only a couple of seasons removed from a 33-win season and a .919 save percentage. A team in search of strong goaltending that has a few bucks open under the cap might be willing to make that gamble for that kind of money. If Theodore returns to his 03-04 form, 2-3m is a bargain. If he returns to his 01-02 form, it's the deal of the year. And if he stays as is, it's less than half of what Chicago paid Khabibulin.

I agree, I think Jose will comand $2-3 Million per. Teams can't pay a 30 year old former League MVP the league minimum.

I just figured we'd see how far Dom would take us in the playoffs, let him retire, and bring up Howard to split game with Ozzie for 2007-08.

so why wouldn't the wings want to make a pitch at him?

Howard will make the league minimum, split time with Ozzie, and will probably post better than Jose type numbers anyway next year.

I don't think Theodore will bounce back. It's been 3 years since he's been a #1 goalie. It's an interesting gamble, but I say leave him alone.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I agree, I think Jose will comand $2-3 Million per. Teams can't pay a 30 year old former League MVP the league minimum.

I just figured we'd see how far Dom would take us in the playoffs, let him retire, and bring up Howard to split game with Ozzie for 2007-08.

Howard will make the league minimum, split time with Ozzie, and will probably post better than Jose type numbers anyway next year.

I don't think Theodore will bounce back. It's been 3 years since he's been a #1 goalie. It's an interesting gamble, but I say leave him alone.

It doesn't seem to me like there would be a whole lot of intrest in Theodore. And as for how much he would get paid, I still think more than a cool million is a stretch without most of it being bonus and such.

That is in part why I think he should get some consideration to be the next UFA goaltender signed by the Wings. He should be cheap enough, and as you stated, he does have potential.

[eva unit zero 271]

It doesn't seem to me like there would be a whole lot of intrest in Theodore. And as for how much he would get paid, I still think more than a cool million is a stretch without most of it being bonus and such.

That is in part why I think he should get some consideration to be the next UFA goaltender signed by the Wings. He should be cheap enough, and as you stated, he does have potential.

Patrick Roy is more likely to be with the Wings next season than Theodore is.

That said, if the Wings pick up any UFA goalie, it should be McLennan. Anyone else would either be out of the Wings' price range, or cost too much for what they bring.

[unkempt 0]

Here is what I don't understand. Simply because I have a different opinon than the majority, I am wrong?

No, you are wrong because your arguments - both qualitatively and quantitatively - are silly (aka: they dont make any sense). They have been shown wrong time and again in this thread and you keep repeating them. That is beyond silly.

By the way, if you think Dom is going to settle for a preformance laden contract as he did this year, don't hold your breath. If you guys would actually read, you would realize Dom is costing us a lot more than the league minimum.

Dom is costing around 800K + 1.1M in bonuses IF he "delivers" the cup. Deal of the year, if he and the Wings go that far. There is no indication he is there for the bucks any more and if you have anything to prove the opposite - bring it. Otherwise your argument is just slander.

As for Belfour, this guy is a steady preformer. All of you Dom fans argue with Doms past. Well how can you deny Eddy's?! And lets not forget who mentored Dom in Chicago!! Obviously Eddy can help out our young guys just as much as a healthy Dom can. I say healthy, don't forget the distraction he was in his first return to the Wings while he was injured.

Hasek, when injured last season, had 28 wins in 42 games, PLUS he was second in GAA and Sv%. You call this PAST??? Granted, he has lost a step in the Sv% this year (may be due to Wings not allowing many shots), but he still is among the best in all other respects. You call this PAST???

Nobody is denying Eddie is a good tender. Even if he really is as good as Dom (he sucked last year in Toronto, remember?) why change what works? Dont bring in the injury BS. Check the league for goalies injuries first.

I say healthy, don't forget the distraction he was in his first return to the Wings while he was injured.

Dont bring in past mistakes and misfortunes. Nobody here is arguing that Eddie is a drunkard.

I love how any line of thinking other than the majority is wrong. Learn to think outside of the box. See the big picture. And get out once and a while!!!

Nice phrases - but no argument. Thats the type of silly phrases you learn at management courses to impress and sound cool, but it is BS.

[unkempt 0]

and the "Belfour mentoring Hasek" idea is really good.

Hasek arrived to Chicago after a decade of being basically the best goalie and hockey player in Czechoslovakia. Unique in style. I do not doubt that Belfour and he shared insights but "mentoring"

[superstarsingh 23]

I hear Holland wants to throw a contract at Tommy Soderstrom.

[eva unit zero 271]

and the "Belfour mentoring Hasek" idea is really good.

Hasek arrived to Chicago after a decade of being basically the best goalie and hockey player in Czechoslovakia. Unique in style. I do not doubt that Belfour and he shared insights but "mentoring"

Especially given that Eddie was only in his second season the ONE year Hasek was in Chitown, and that they're the same age.

[puckloo39 5,686]

and the "Belfour mentoring Hasek" idea is really good.

Hasek arrived to Chicago after a decade of being basically the best goalie and hockey player in Czechoslovakia. Unique in style. I do not doubt that Belfour and he shared insights but "mentoring"

I believe the person who posted this about Belfour and Hasek (amongst other gems) is purposely throwing out idiotic statements to see if he can get a response. If that's not the case, we can ignore him completely, since he knows nothing about hockey - or more specifically, NHL goaltending and Hasek in particular.

Edited March 29, 2007 by puckloo39

[sibiriak 84]

Here is what I don't understand. Simply because I have a different opinon than the majority, I am wrong? I never said in acquiring Theodore that it was a move to make him the starter. He will be cheap, is no worse than any other real option the Wings will have, and you cannot take away the hardware he won. He does have a lot of talent. Has he proven himself the last 2 years? No, the only thing he has proven is that he lacks the confidence he had the year he claimed the MVP. I merely suggested that if the Wings acquired him, and he regained 75% of that form, he would be well worth it. And if he didn't, depending on his conract status, he could be sent to the minors, and Howard or Liv called up. And yes, I do feel it would be a gamble on him, but no more so than the gamble Dom would be. By the way, if you think Dom is going to settle for a preformance laden contract as he did this year, don't hold your breath. If you guys would actually read, you would realize Dom is costing us a lot more than the league minimum.

As for Belfour, this guy is a steady preformer. All of you Dom fans argue with Doms past. Well how can you deny Eddy's?! And lets not forget who mentored Dom in Chicago!! Obviously Eddy can help out our young guys just as much as a healthy Dom can. I say healthy, don't forget the distraction he was in his first return to the Wings while he was injured.

I love how any line of thinking other than the majority is wrong. Learn to think outside of the box. See the big picture. And get out once and a while!!!

Being in the majority doesn't necessarily make my opinion correct. But when virtually everyone thinks that your opinion is wrong (yes, opinions CAN be wrong), that is usually sufficient grounds to at least reexamine your thinking.

Your position, as I understand it, could be summarized as follows:

1. Hasek is way past it, and will be totally past it next year.

2. Hasek's health is so fragile that he couldn't possbly be counted upon as a starter.

3. As a remedy,you suggest bringing in Theodore, who (according to you) is due to play like in his Hart season, or Belfour, who (again, according to you) is getting older but better.

Let's examine this opinion of yours.

1. Hasek is not as good as he was 10 years ago. But Hasek at 90% is still among league leaders in all statistical categories. All but a couple of teams would love to have Hasek in their net. And he plays for CHEAP, which allows the Wings to sign at least one more good player than they could if they had to pay 3-5 mil.for a starting goalie.

Perhaps Hasek's play would deteriorate next year. It is a concern. However, he doesn't take much cap space and is still a good bet.

2. Hasek played more games this year than many other (much younger) starting goalies. He is 15th in the NHL in in total Time on Ice. He is on pace to start 56-57 games this season, which is HIGHER than his average for the 9 seasons with the Sabres, when he was recognized as the best goalie in the world. So the health concerns are not supported by the evidence. There's no reason to think that Hasek's health would catasrtophically fail next year.

3. Theodore's ONLY advantage over Hasek is that he is younger. His stats are abysmal, he is one of the worst goalies in the league statisticaly, and he even lost his starter's job in Colorado. Detroit already has Howard that is an infinitely better choice than Theodore, in case Hasek can't play next year. There's absolutely NO reason to believe that Theodore would regain his Hart form any time soon, if ever.

Belfour is the same age as Hasek, and is playing demonstrably worse. What would be the point of getting rid of one old goalie with possible health issues, and replace him with another one, that has always been inferior throughout their respective careers, and is inferior now?

It seems that your opinion is not based on any rational arguments, and is just an elaborate "I hate Hasek" declaration.

In other words, your opinion is totally wrong and unsupported by evidence. You may as well claim that the moon is made of blue cheese. You wouldn't be any more wrong.

Edited March 29, 2007 by sibiriak

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Being in the majority doesn't necessarily make my opinion correct. But when virtually everyone thinks that your opinion is wrong (yes, opinions CAN be wrong)

How can an opinion be wrong? That makes no sense to me. While I also don't think Hasek should be in net next year for the Wings, I also have enough of an open mind listen to and think about what this guy had to say.

1. Hasek. He is old, and his play isn't getting better. I don't think he is really getting worse, but he is making more and more bad decisions this year. We don't know they type of guy Hasek is in the locker room. I myself would rather hae Osgood as a mentor than Hasek. Afterall, what hasn't Oz seen or been through? And how can you not worry about Hasek's health issue? If it was a big enough deal to have clauses written into his contract, it surely is deserving of some talk here. I've read that Hasek's contract baseis about 880k, plus around 2Mil in preformace laiden bonuses, and an extra 1.1Mill for a Cup. As of right now, I am sure he has earned at least half of his preformances, most likely more. So he isn't as cheap as he appears at first glance. And if the Wings resign Dom who is a UFA, do you really think he will come at such a 'bargin' again?

2. Theodore. What would hurt in offering this guy a 2-way say 1Mil, 1 year deal? Or better yet, make it league min, plus a ton of preformace bonuses? I mean, of course if he would accept this type of contract, it wouldn't hurt anything. I would liken the signing of Theodore to trading for Calder. Calder was washed up, in fact he NEVER lived up to the hype that followed him after being drafted. But it is amazing what a change of scenary can do for players. I think part of the reason Theosore failed in Colorado was he was supposed to be the next Patrick Roy. Add in all the pressure from is heavy contract, and you have the origins of his demise. However, it is a big risk, and I am not totally sold it's the right direction.

3. McLennan. Please, just shoot me. This guy has never done anything that impressive. He isn't even good enough to be a stead backup. So please, just let that one go.

4. Belfour. He has played much better than expected this season. With a workout routine geared toward strengthening his back, and if I read correctly, a dietary change, I'm not surprised he is looking like the old Eddie. For my money, I would rather have Belfour, who is putting up good numbers on a horrible defensive team. Is anyone here seriously going to try to contest that Hasek would be doing any better than Eddie, if Hasek were in Florida? I don't think so. Regardless, if either one, Belfour or Hasek, signs with Detroit it wouldn't be for more than one year. And in that senario, I think we would get more out of Belfour.

5. Howard/Liv. I am all for these guys getting a chance. I wouldn't mind seeing Oz in charge with either of these two guys behind him. Or maybe eve both, just carry 3. Give Oz a few home games off, and play the kids. I think it is necessary to have that vet on the road to help keep the young guys focused. I a really excited to see these guys, and I am hoping that we get to at somepoint next year.

And just FYI I've read some posts that suggest Osgood needs to be resigned. That isn't true, here is a list of the Wings FA's, and the type that each is.....

Todd Bertuzzi, (III)

Kyle Calder, (III)

Chris ChelioS, (III)

Pavel Datsyuk, (III)

Jiri Fischer, (III)

Dominik Hasek, (III)

Robert Lang, (III)

Josh Langfeld, (III)

Kirk Maltby, (III)

Danny Markov, (III)

Brad Norton, (III)

Mathieu Schneider, (III)

Dan Smith, (III)

Darryl Bootland, (VI)

Brendan Brooks, (VI)

Matt Ellis, (VI)

Matt Hussey, (VI)

Eric Himelfarb, (II)

Jiri Hudler, (II)

Krystofer Kolanos, (II)

Stefan Liv, (II)

[sibiriak 84]

Dear imisssergei aka bringhomethecup or whatever else you want to call yourself tomorrow.

Opinions that contradict factual evidence are called wrong. I am tired of trying to suggest to you facts supporting my position and disproving yours, and get but repeated same old unproven statements in return. I am done.

In my opinion, you are just seeking attention and have no desire to maintain a reasonable dialogue. This my opinion is so far supported by the evidence. If you can prove me wrong in this, go ahead.

Goodbye.

Edited March 29, 2007 by sibiriak

[GoWings1905 2,694]

First off, comparing Hasek to Theodore is insane. Second, if Hasek retires (again), Osgood is a much better option in goal than Theodore. Besides, the Red Wings only need to get by probably another year before Jimmy Howard takes over. Jose Theodore is right where he should be, a back-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dom play again next season, depending on how far the Wings go in the playoffs.

[WingsWingsWings 3]

My wife would s*** a brick if Kipper came to Detroit. He is her favorite player and she loves the Flames.

[rwfan007 18]

Maybe we should just go Ozzie/Liv, I was at the Griffins game last night and he was awesome. He shut out in the shootout as the Griffs went 3-3... Liv is good, give him a shot?