Grigorenko

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I was reading in another post about Grigs. Since the kid was drafted we have been hearing about how good he will be, and so on and so forth. If this kid is so good, why isn't he over here? He has been described as 'better than Ovechkin'. If that is even close to being true, why haven't the Wings made more of an effort to get him here?

I've check his stats for the Russian team he is playing for, he isn't even leading the team in goals or assists. I know the car wreck set him back, but how much longer are we going to wait on this guy?

That being said, what could we realisticly get for him in a trade? If he is so talented, wouldn't be bring back a substantial return? Say maybe like a Kopitar or Semin type player?

[GongShow86 0]

Money. The team hes on now i think offered him a million dollars american.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Money. The team hes on now i think offered him a million dollars american.

I have heard this argument before, but I don't understand it. Would he be subject to the standard rookie contract as another other NHL rookie would be?

[zetterbergfuturemvp 0]

I was reading in another post about Grigs. Since the kid was drafted we have been hearing about how good he will be, and so on and so forth. If this kid is so good, why isn't he over here? He has been described as 'better than Ovechkin'. If that is even close to being true, why haven't the Wings made more of an effort to get him here?

I've check his stats for the Russian team he is playing for, he isn't even leading the team in goals or assists. I know the car wreck set him back, but how much longer are we going to wait on this guy?

That being said, what could we realisticly get for him in a trade? If he is so talented, wouldn't be bring back a substantial return? Say maybe like a Kopitar or Semin type player?

LOL ya we can get semin whos got almost 40 goals in his rookie year or kopitar , a top calder candidate for grigorenko

[toby91_ca 620]

LOL ya we can get semin whos got almost 40 goals in his rookie year or kopitar , a top calder candidate for grigorenko

This is not Semin's rookie year. If it was, the Calder race would be a lot more interesting.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I was reading in another post about Grigs. Since the kid was drafted we have been hearing about how good he will be, and so on and so forth. If this kid is so good, why isn't he over here? He has been described as 'better than Ovechkin'. If that is even close to being true, why haven't the Wings made more of an effort to get him here?

I've check his stats for the Russian team he is playing for, he isn't even leading the team in goals or assists. I know the car wreck set him back, but how much longer are we going to wait on this guy?

That being said, what could we realisticly get for him in a trade? If he is so talented, wouldn't be bring back a substantial return? Say maybe like a Kopitar or Semin type player?

*L*

I think Grigs will end up being an Andrei Kovalenko type player. A 20 goal scorer. Which is better than a kick in the rocks.

[ColdWarrior 0]

I have heard this argument before, but I don't understand it. Would he be subject to the standard rookie contract as another other NHL rookie would be?

The first reason is, of course, the accident. He stayed in russia to recover & regain his form. During the last few years, he also got married & had a kid. As I recall, he stated last year that he wasn't ready to uproot his family to move yet... furthermore, there is the money issue. He is getting more there than the rookie contract rules allow in the NHL... but what is much more important is taxes. Russia doesn't tax it's athletes... so that's 1M tax free in a poor country with a low cost standard of living versus 850K, heavily taxed, in a rich country with an expensive standard of living...

The good news, is that he has stated he'd be coming to the states next season. A strong bull-in-the-china-shop type player would look good on a line with Jiri, Pavel, or Hank... hopefully we'll keep Bert & Calder too... leaving Grigs to compete for one of those top-two-line spots.

Ponamaisch tovarisch?

[WingNutt 12]

Money. The team hes on now i think offered him a million dollars american.

Its not for money, it really gets to me when everyone says Russian players only play for money and where they will get the most of it. What you guys don't realize is that guys like Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Kovalev. Could all make more money playing in Russia. Like Ovechkin said, its his dream to play in best league in the world. Its not always about the money.

In Igor's case, he is not ready to make the move to not only the NHL but America as well. He has a family he has to think about and is still trying to cope with the after effects of his accident. Plus the Wings are waiting for the right moment to fit him in the line up.

I like the guy a lot but he is far from being better than Ovechkin. He was once said to be the next Kovalchuk though but that was before he got in the car accident. He has made great recovery so far but a lot of people don't feel he'll ever be the same player that he was. Still a NHL caliber player none the less and I look forward to seeing him in the Wings uniform when the time is right.

Datsyuk and Markov will be able to help him adjust. Just as Larionov and Fedorov did when Datsyuk first arrived.

[Heaton 1]

Its not for money, it really gets to me when everyone says Russian players only play for money and where they will get the most of it. What you guys don't realize is that guys like Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Kovalev. Could all make more money playing in Russia. Like Ovechkin said, its his dream to play in best league in the world. Its not always about the money.

In Igor's case, he is not ready to make the move to not only the NHL but America as well. He has a family he has to think about and is still trying to cope with the after effects of his accident. Plus the Wings are waiting for the right moment to fit him in the line up.

I like the guy a lot but he is far from being better than Ovechkin. He was once said to be the next Kovalchuk though but that was before he got in the car accident. He has made great recovery so far but a lot of people don't feel he'll ever be the same player that he was. Still a NHL caliber player none the less and I look forward to seeing him in the Wings uniform when the time is right.

Datsyuk and Markov will be able to help him adjust. Just as Larionov and Fedorov did when Datsyuk first arrived.

No, in this case the Wings weren't able to sign him because of the 1m tax free contract he got in Russia. Grigorenko could've came over a while ago.

Russia isn't going to shell out 7-8m a season for multiple players either so that's incorrect also.

I'd also love to see an article where he was considered better than Ovechkin post-injury.

[sibiriak 84]

No, in this case the Wings weren't able to sign him because of the 1m tax free contract he got in Russia. Grigorenko could've came over a while ago.

Russia isn't going to shell out 7-8m a season for multiple players either so that's incorrect also.

I'd also love to see an article where he was considered better than Ovechkin post-injury.

Russain tax rate is a flat 13%. No local taxes. There's a sales tax, but the prices outside Moscow and St.Peterburg are much lower than here. The teams usually provide cars, housing and other perks free of charge (and tax-free). Under these conditions, $1 mil. in Russia is roughly equivalent in purchasing power to at least $2mil. in the US. The only Russian players that make more in the NHL than they potentially could in Russia are Yashin, Fedorov and Habibullin. Datsyuk, Kovalev, Kovalchuk were all offered more money in Russia than the PP equivalent of their current NHL salaries. Not to mention Ovechkin and Malkin, who are playing for the rookie max, that is several times less than their Russian salaries would have been.

During the lockout, dozens of NHLers made a millions of dollars in Russia. The oil and gas are dear right now, and their producers have a LOT of dough to spend on toys, like pro hockey clubs.

Edited March 29, 2007 by sibiriak

[swedishseven 9]

from what ive heard he's not the same player since his leg was busted.loss of speed etc..who knows if he'll ever be the player everyone thought he would. time will tell ...dont hold your breath

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

The first reason is, of course, the accident. He stayed in russia to recover & regain his form. During the last few years, he also got married & had a kid. As I recall, he stated last year that he wasn't ready to uproot his family to move yet... furthermore, there is the money issue. He is getting more there than the rookie contract rules allow in the NHL... but what is much more important is taxes. Russia doesn't tax it's athletes... so that's 1M tax free in a poor country with a low cost standard of living versus 850K, heavily taxed, in a rich country with an expensive standard of living...

The good news, is that he has stated he'd be coming to the states next season. A strong bull-in-the-china-shop type player would look good on a line with Jiri, Pavel, or Hank... hopefully we'll keep Bert & Calder too... leaving Grigs to compete for one of those top-two-line spots.

Ponamaisch tovarisch?

Where do you get 850k from? I am pretty sure the NHL rookie max is more like 450K. But that argument still doesn't stand up. Take a look at M.A. Fleury's contract. All the bonuses included, the kids first season he earned a few million. So the earning potential is there. And I have read that Russia does tax it's atheltes something like 10-15%.

I'll buy the family part, as most european players seem to not only have more pride in playing for thier countries, but also more respect for their familes than most NorthAmerican players do.

[Heaton 1]

Where do you get 850k from? I am pretty sure the NHL rookie max is more like 450K. But that argument still doesn't stand up. Take a look at M.A. Fleury's contract. All the bonuses included, the kids first season he earned a few million. So the earning potential is there. And I have read that Russia does tax it's atheltes something like 10-15%.

I'll buy the family part, as most european players seem to not only have more pride in playing for thier countries, but also more respect for their familes than most NorthAmerican players do.

The rookie max is a 3 year 850k contract with bonuses up to around 4m.

[CMatt89 63]

He'll be in the lineup next season. Holland has stated this a few times in freep articles. He's not better than Ovechkin, he's smaller, but is as strong as an ox. He's qucik..although lost some quickness, speed and agility to the accident. Jim Nill on RWC.com said their confident he can regain that though. He'll be a solid addition to the lineup next year.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Does anyone know where I can find a list of current NHL salaries? I remember TSN had a listing in the offseason, but it doesn't appear to be there any longer.

[Hank 0]

Russain tax rate is a flat 13%. No local taxes. There's a sales tax, but the prices outside Moscow and St.Peterburg are much lower than here. The teams usually provide cars, housing and other perks free of charge (and tax-free). Under these conditions, $1 mil. in Russia is roughly equivalent in purchasing power to at least $2mil. in the US. The only Russian players that make more in the NHL than they potentially could in Russia are Yashin, Fedorov and Habibullin. Datsyuk, Kovalev, Kovalchuk were all offered more money in Russia than the PP equivalent of their current NHL salaries. Not to mention Ovechkin and Malkin, who are playing for the rookie max, that is several times less than their Russian salaries would have been.

During the lockout, dozens of NHLers made a millions of dollars in Russia. The oil and gas are dear right now, and their producers have a LOT of dough to spend on toys, like pro hockey clubs.

You're right on many counts. However, because of incentive bonuses both Ovechkin and Kovalchuk made over $3,000,000 in their rookie years. And you can't discount sponserships. I'm sure Ovechkin makes a few extra bucks for wearing the gear that he does. Not to mention the lifestyle.

[WingNutt 12]

Does anyone know where I can find a list of current NHL salaries? I remember TSN had a listing in the offseason, but it doesn't appear to be there any longer.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/

http://www.nhlpa.com

[Mila 0]

Grigorenko in, Lang out next season.

More performance for less money.

[sibiriak 84]

You're right on many counts. However, because of incentive bonuses both Ovechkin and Kovalchuk made over $3,000,000 in their rookie years. And you can't discount sponserships. I'm sure Ovechkin makes a few extra bucks for wearing the gear that he does. Not to mention the lifestyle.

$3 mil in their rookie years (and less in the following years) would be equivalent to $1.5 mil. in Russia. That is what Alexei Morozov is making in Russia now. Malkin was reportedly offered $3 mil.by Magnitogorsk. Do you really think that OV or Kovalchuk would command less?

As to lifestyle, Washington and even more so Atlanta have nothing that Moscow doesn't have in that department. New York or perhaps LA may be the only possible competition.

So no, the Russians are here for the chance to compete against the best and not for the money. They could have earned more staying in Russia.

[WingNutt 12]

$3 mil in their rookie years (and less in the following years) would be equivalent to $1.5 mil. in Russia. That is what Alexei Morozov is making in Russia now. Malkin was reportedly offered $3 mil.by Magnitogorsk. Do you really think that OV or Kovalchuk would command less?

As to lifestyle, Washington and even more so Atlanta have nothing that Moscow doesn't have in that department. New York or perhaps LA may be the only possible competition.

So no, the Russians are here for the chance to compete against the best and not for the money. They could have earned more staying in Russia.

amen brother

[zetterbergfuturemvp 0]

This is not Semin's rookie year. If it was, the Calder race would be a lot more interesting.

ok your right , but hes been gone for so long he might as well be considered a rookie again lol

[rick zombo 3,739]

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Calder - Hudler - Bertuzzi

Franzen - Filpulla - Grigorenko

Kopecky - Draper - Cleary

Sammuelson

Lidstrom - Kronwall

Sarich - Lebda

Chelios - Kindl

Quincey

Hasek

Osggod

[epps 0]

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Calder - Hudler - Bertuzzi

Franzen - Filpulla - Grigorenko

Kopecky - Draper - Cleary

Sammuelson

Lidstrom - Kronwall

Sarich - Lebda

Chelios - Kindl

Quincey

Hasek

Osggod

That looks pretty damn good roster to me. Is Hudler a good enough center to lead the 2nd line though? I've seen his goal scoring abiility but I just don't know much about his ability to play center.

[Mila 0]

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Calder - Hudler - Bertuzzi

Franzen - Filpulla - Grigorenko

Kopecky - Draper - Cleary

Sammuelson

Lidstrom - Kronwall

Sarich - Lebda

Chelios - Kindl

Quincey

Hasek

Osggod

Who's Sarich?

Where's Markov?

[stactum 4]

$3 mil in their rookie years (and less in the following years) would be equivalent to $1.5 mil. in Russia. That is what Alexei Morozov is making in Russia now. Malkin was reportedly offered $3 mil.by Magnitogorsk. Do you really think that OV or Kovalchuk would command less?

As to lifestyle, Washington and even more so Atlanta have nothing that Moscow doesn't have in that department. New York or perhaps LA may be the only possible competition.

So no, the Russians are here for the chance to compete against the best and not for the money. They could have earned more staying in Russia.

Totally agree!

I think another thing for Grigor is that he would want to make sure that he would be on the team (Wings), not Grand Rapids, cause in this case he'll return to play for RSL for sure.