Flames Vs Detroit game 4

[flamesfan 0]

WOW!!!!

I went to the game tonight not knowing what to expect I did expect Detroit to play hard, and Bertuzzi to suck. Man was I wrong on that one.

Firstly, I have no clue what happened to Detroit tonight It almost looked like they couldn't care less. Bertuzzi was a shining point though. He played great tonight. Hasek, I don't know how some of you Detroit fans don't get sick of his antics. His useless penalty led to a goal that set the tone for the fans and the Flames.

I do expect Babcock to rip things up in the dressing room and get his team fired up again. I don't think Game 5 is gonna be a cakewalk for either team.

That being said, the Flames did not dominate the Red Wings by any stretch of the imagination. The Flames still need to work on many aspects of their game. I for one am greatfull that we have salvaged a great series.

Well I gotta pack as I'm flying out tommorow to Detroit to catch game 5. Staying at the Marriot Ren Cen and going to catch a bite at Coney's (spelling ???) before the game on Sat. Its gonna be a great game!!!!

[My GF Wishes I Was Hank 0]

WOW!!!!

I went to the game tonight not knowing what to expect I did expect Detroit to play hard, and Bertuzzi to suck. Man was I wrong on that one.

Firstly, I have no clue what happened to Detroit tonight It almost looked like they couldn't care less. Bertuzzi was a shining point though. He played great tonight. Hasek, I don't know how some of you Detroit fans don't get sick of his antics. His useless penalty led to a goal that set the tone for the fans and the Flames.

I do expect Babcock to rip things up in the dressing room and get his team fired up again. I don't think Game 5 is gonna be a cakewalk for either team.

That being said, the Flames did not dominate the Red Wings by any stretch of the imagination. The Flames still need to work on many aspects of their game. I for one am greatfull that we have salvaged a great series.

Well I gotta pack as I'm flying out tommorow to Detroit to catch game 5. Staying at the Marriot Ren Cen and going to catch a bite at Coney's (spelling ???) before the game on Sat. Its gonna be a great game!!!!

your right, the wings did not look sharp.....as for the Hasek....the antics come with the territory of his type of play. He gets stupid penalties like to today quite often, and Babcock has even called him out of it before....and yet he does it again... It hurt us tonight and it will continue to hurt us if he doesnt smarten up. Play the game, stop trying to draw cheap penalties, do your job, stay in the crease and stp the puck more times thant you dont! As for you coming here....if i see you in a flames jersey i will kill you....haha just kidding. I went to game 1 and there were alot of Flames fans....very classy set of fans, which i like. Its rare to see an opposing teams fans come into our house and be respectful about it, but most of the Flames fans were very respectful...so mad props to you guys, we appreciate it. Its ganna be a great game.

[The_Cub 0]

Well I gotta pack as I'm flying out tommorow to Detroit to catch game 5. Staying at the Marriot Ren Cen and going to catch a bite at Coney's (spelling ???) before the game on Sat. Its gonna be a great game!!!!

Be careful with those coneys before the game. The crappers at the Joe are bad enough as a Wings fan.

Joking aside. Have fun and enjoy the loss.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Joking aside. Have fun and enjoy the loss.

BINGO!

[Moosekatt 0]

BINGO!

Bout time I read something postive from other Wings' fans.

It's time to rock n' roll on Sat.

[Hank 0]

Don't hold your breath about Babcock rallying the troops. He got outcoached in the Oilers series and he's getting out-coached here too.

Here are some of the dumb things he's done so far:

- refuses to give Lang a limited role despite how useless he's been.

- breaks up the only line that's been consistant in this series (Cleary-Draper-Maltby)

- sits Hudler instead of Sammy or Lang. Hudler was actually working very hard and producing. Sammy? 1 assist in 10 straight playoff games. And his one assist came from his falling on his ass and Zetts picking it up and going end-to-end for a goal.

- continues to put Sammy on the PP despite the fact that he can't hit the net if was the size of Rosie O'Donnells ass.

- Hasn't been able to figure out how to combat an aggressive PK. The Ducks, Flames, Oilers and now the Flames again have given us fits while on the PP. And yet we've never broken from our strategy of simply letting Lidstrom fire the puck and hope that Homer gets a stick on it or screens Kipersoff. Where are the other 2 forwards? On the side boards. Good job B'cock.

- and now I hear that he's going to bench Calder for Hudler. While Hudler should have never been sat, benching Calder is a huge mistake. He plays big, has good hands, and will go through walls for you. Instead, we'll keep Sammy in there who never hits the net and really doesn't contribute at all out there.

Here's my theory as to why we sucked in games 3 and 4. The Wings dominated in the first two games from playing hard-nosed, smashmouth hockey. We threw our bodies around with abandon and our forwards engaged in every puck battle they could. But after those 2 games, many of the players realised how hard it is to play like that. Not so much physically but mentally. After this, many of them subconsciously shut it down as they don't have the mental or testicular fortitude to play like that for 2 months straight. It's the same reason why that team that showed up at the Joe will never return. Not until Ken Holland and his team are fired and a guy is brought in who will draft, sign and pick up players that have no problems playing that style for that length of time. Guys like Lang and Sammy are two prime examples.

Here's my predictions:

Game 5 - Flames 4, Wings 2 (Flames score empty netter and score 2 more on PP. Wings go 0-7 on PP)

Game 6 - Flames 2, Wings 1 (Flames score 1 PP goal and Wings go 0-6 on PP).

[Iowa_Flames_Fan 0]

Don't hold your breath about Babcock rallying the troops. He got outcoached in the Oilers series and he's getting out-coached here too.

I know a lot of Flames fans who would disagree with you. Playfair has been under fire on the Flames message board for a while, for his failure to prepare and motivate the players on a consistent basis. Both criticisms are probably overstated. The truth is, they have very different styles. Playfair is more of an Xs and Os coach, very patient and tactical--and perhaps a little too slow in making decisions on the fly, which may explain why he has a hard time getting the right matchups during road games. Babcock is more of a motivational guy, as I understand it--maybe not a deep thinker, but a guy who gets the best out of every player in every game--most of the time. I'm no expert on how he's been this year, but his regular-season record, particularly the record in big games, speaks for itself to some degree.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Don't hold your breath about Babcock rallying the troops. He got outcoached in the Oilers series and he's getting out-coached here too.

Here are some of the dumb things he's done so far:

- refuses to give Lang a limited role despite how useless he's been.

- breaks up the only line that's been consistant in this series (Cleary-Draper-Maltby)

- sits Hudler instead of Sammy or Lang. Hudler was actually working very hard and producing. Sammy? 1 assist in 10 straight playoff games. And his one assist came from his falling on his ass and Zetts picking it up and going end-to-end for a goal.

- continues to put Sammy on the PP despite the fact that he can't hit the net if was the size of Rosie O'Donnells ass.

- Hasn't been able to figure out how to combat an aggressive PK. The Ducks, Flames, Oilers and now the Flames again have given us fits while on the PP. And yet we've never broken from our strategy of simply letting Lidstrom fire the puck and hope that Homer gets a stick on it or screens Kipersoff. Where are the other 2 forwards? On the side boards. Good job B'cock.

- and now I hear that he's going to bench Calder for Hudler. While Hudler should have never been sat, benching Calder is a huge mistake. He plays big, has good hands, and will go through walls for you. Instead, we'll keep Sammy in there who never hits the net and really doesn't contribute at all out there.

Here's my theory as to why we sucked in games 3 and 4. The Wings dominated in the first two games from playing hard-nosed, smashmouth hockey. We threw our bodies around with abandon and our forwards engaged in every puck battle they could. But after those 2 games, many of the players realised how hard it is to play like that. Not so much physically but mentally. After this, many of them subconsciously shut it down as they don't have the mental or testicular fortitude to play like that for 2 months straight. It's the same reason why that team that showed up at the Joe will never return. Not until Ken Holland and his team are fired and a guy is brought in who will draft, sign and pick up players that have no problems playing that style for that length of time. Guys like Lang and Sammy are two prime examples.

Here's my predictions:

Game 5 - Flames 4, Wings 2 (Flames score empty netter and score 2 more on PP. Wings go 0-7 on PP)

Game 6 - Flames 2, Wings 1 (Flames score 1 PP goal and Wings go 0-6 on PP).

All we need is for you to be the coach and its a guaranteed Cup! \

It just isn't as simple as putting down some notes on LGW, and thinking you've got it all figured out.

[Hank 0]

I know a lot of Flames fans who would disagree with you. Playfair has been under fire on the Flames message board for a while, for his failure to prepare and motivate the players on a consistent basis. Both criticisms are probably overstated. The truth is, they have very different styles. Playfair is more of an Xs and Os coach, very patient and tactical--and perhaps a little too slow in making decisions on the fly, which may explain why he has a hard time getting the right matchups during road games. Babcock is more of a motivational guy, as I understand it--maybe not a deep thinker, but a guy who gets the best out of every player in every game--most of the time. I'm no expert on how he's been this year, but his regular-season record, particularly the record in big games, speaks for itself to some degree.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your assessment of Babcock being a motivator who gets the best out of his players. If that were the case Robert Lang would have won this series singlehandedly. In fact, it seems that a lot of the Wings players get worse in the playoffs. Nick Lidstrom has looked human in the last two springs. Samualsson has been atrocious and Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still struggling on the road.

Babcocks man-love for Lang and Sammy are causing the Wings this series.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your assessment of Babcock being a motivator who gets the best out of his players. If that were the case Robert Lang would have won this series singlehandedly. In fact, it seems that a lot of the Wings players get worse in the playoffs. Nick Lidstrom has looked human in the last two springs. Samualsson has been atrocious and Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still struggling on the road.

Babcocks man-love for Lang and Sammy are causing the Wings this series.

No, the Wings PP/PK coupled with a reduced forecheck is "causing the Wings this series".

Don't pin it on Lang & Sammy. They aren't the only reason the Wings haven't won the past 2 games.

[Guest Agalloch]

Here's my perspective: Hasek needs to play better. So do the special teams.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Agalloch

[Hank 0]

All we need is for you to be the coach and its a guaranteed Cup! \

It just isn't as simple as putting down some notes on LGW, and thinking you've got it all figured out.

No, all I need is to be this teams GM so I can get some guys in there that want to win.

Did anyone read that story about Brent Gilchrist in the Detroit News before the playoffs started?

They told a story about how his groin was in such bad shape he had to take pain-killing shots INTO HIS GROIN before each practice and game. The pain was so bad that they moved him down the hallway from the dressing room and bite on a towel to muffle his screams. And yet, Maltby said you could still hear him scream from far away.

Eventually, once the conference finals against Dallas were complete, he could no longer play because the muscle on his groin had completely torn away from the bone. That's guts. That's determination. That's heart. Name one player on this team that would do that for an extra win in this playoffs. Outside of Chelios and maybe the grind line, I don't see any of the players on this team doing that.

We have a team full of sweethearts. We need a team of men.

P.S. Please tell me where I'm wrong with any of the things I've written about Babcock. I think I'm pretty accurate on all accounts.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Hank

[Hatchet Barry 71]

No, the Wings PP/PK coupled with a reduced forecheck is "causing the Wings this series".

Don't pin it on Lang & Sammy. They aren't the only reason the Wings haven't won the past 2 games.

They may not be the only reason the Wings have lost the past 2 but they sure are they main reason.

[Guest Agalloch]

No, all I need is to be this teams GM so I can get some guys in there that want to win.

Did anyone read that story about Brent Gilchrist in the Detroit News before the playoffs started?

They told a story about how his groin was in such bad shape he had to take pain-killing shots INTO HIS GROIN before each practice and game. The pain was so bad that they moved him down the hallway from the dressing room and bite on a towel to muffle his screams. And yet, Maltby said you could still hear him scream from far away.

Eventually, once the conference finals against Dallas were complete, he could no longer play because the muscle on his groin had completely torn away from the bone. That's guts. That's determination. That's heart. Name one player on this team that would do that for an extra win in this playoffs. Outside of Chelios and maybe the grind line, I don't see any of the players on this team doing that.

We have a team full of sweethearts. We need a team of men.

P.S. Please tell me where I'm wrong with any of the things I've written about Babcock. I think I'm pretty accurate on all accounts.

Yes, because in order for someone to want to win, they must get hurt, and take pucks to the groin. EVERYBODY knows that!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

They may not be the only reason the Wings have lost the past 2 but they sure are they main reason.

No they aren't. IMO, the two I listed are.

[Hank 0]

No, the Wings PP/PK coupled with a reduced forecheck is "causing the Wings this series".

Don't pin it on Lang & Sammy. They aren't the only reason the Wings haven't won the past 2 games.

And all of the above is from bad coaching. We've been running the same style of PP since forever. Our strategy needs to change. Lang and Sammy have hurt this team, never helped it. Why are they still getting prime minutes?

The PK has had it rough from 5-on-3's and some bad bounces, but they can be better.

Yes, because in order for someone to want to win, they must get hurt, and take pucks to the groin. EVERYBODY knows that!

Thanks for completely missing the point dingus. The point was that those teams had players that would go through hell and back to win games. We haven't had that type of character for a long time.

[Hatchet Barry 71]

No they aren't. IMO, the two I listed are.

Yeah but the PP is severly stuggling because Sammy is playing the point. Theres no way in hell Sammy should even be on the PP or even in the lineup right now over Hudler. The PK is hard to kill off when your on a 5 on 3 twice in the same game.

[Guest Agalloch]

And all of the above is from bad coaching. We've been running the same style of PP since forever. Our strategy needs to change. Lang and Sammy have hurt this team, never helped it. Why are they still getting prime minutes?

The PK has had it rough from 5-on-3's and some bad bounces, but they can be better.

Thanks for completely missing the point dingus. The point was that those teams had players that would go through hell and back to win games. We haven't had that type of character for a long time.

I didn't miss the point. You brought up something that doesn't have anything to do with the playoffs this year. Is there anyone on the team that's hurting so much that they have to take pain killing shots? No? Okay, they why should they? Because it shows a DESIRE TO WIN?

Why, of course!

[bringback91 2]

Whoa! I thought for sure there was at least 2 games left for the Wings to show what there made of and shut up all the panicers?!? Guess I was wrong, huh? Better luck next year I guess right guys?

*edit*-- Gilchrist can scream and have all the guts in the world, he was one of the worst and most unimportant players on that team. I'm sure Per Djoos has heart too, but I don't want him around either.

Edited April 20, 2007 by bringback91

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

No, all I need is to be this teams GM so I can get some guys in there that want to win.

Just that simple, huh?

P.S. Please tell me where I'm wrong with any of the things I've written about Babcock. I think I'm pretty accurate on all accounts.

- refuses to give Lang a limited role despite how useless he's been.

Lang made an extremely difficult back-bending pass to Bert who directly scored, was a +2 on the game, and went to the net much more frequently in game 4. But yeah, after that performance, he should get reduced TOI.

- breaks up the only line that's been consistant in this series (Cleary-Draper-Maltby)

Agreed, I would've kept them together

- sits Hudler instead of Sammy or Lang. Hudler was actually working very hard and producing. Sammy? 1 assist in 10 straight playoff games. And his one assist came from his falling on his ass and Zetts picking it up and going end-to-end for a goal.

Sammy and Lang aren't blowing this series for the Wings, the PP/PK and abandoning the Forecheck are.

- continues to put Sammy on the PP despite the fact that he can't hit the net if was the size of Rosie O'Donnells ass.

Lids, Schneider, and Lebda can't be out there for the entire 2 minutes every PP. Who would you put out there? Markov, Lilja, Cheli????

- Hasn't been able to figure out how to combat an aggressive PK. The Ducks, Flames, Oilers and now the Flames again have given us fits while on the PP. And yet we've never broken from our strategy of simply letting Lidstrom fire the puck and hope that Homer gets a stick on it or screens Kipersoff. Where are the other 2 forwards? On the side boards. Good job B'cock.

Yet they scored two goals in the first two games on the PP. No the PP hasn't been pretty, but you're making it out like you have the end all solution to the problem, which you don't. Moving the puck down low, while keeping Homer/Bert inf front of Kippur would work better IMO, than just getting 2 forwards in front of the net.

- and now I hear that he's going to bench Calder for Hudler. While Hudler should have never been sat, benching Calder is a huge mistake. He plays big, has good hands, and will go through walls for you. Instead, we'll keep Sammy in there who never hits the net and really doesn't contribute at all out there.

Has this been confirmed?

Yeah but the PP is severly stuggling because Sammy is playing the point. Theres no way in hell Sammy should even be on the PP or even in the lineup right now over Hudler. The PK is hard to kill off when your on a 5 on 3 twice in the same game.

And who on the Wings should be?

Yeah but the PP is severly stuggling because Sammy is playing the point. Theres no way in hell Sammy should even be on the PP or even in the lineup right now over Hudler. The PK is hard to kill off when your on a 5 on 3 twice in the same game.

Obvious......what's your point? Are you agreeing with me that the PP/PK is a problem?

Edited April 20, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Kp-Wings 3]

I love these topics. You guys all think you can walk in and start coaching. Like NFM #25 said, all we need is one you guys to become coach of the Wings, and we'll win the Cup every year.

Like I already stated earlier, what is Babcock supposed to do with Lang and Samulesson? You can't have them both benched. Yes, one should be benched for Hudler. But all of you want them both benched, and that's not even possible. Do you guys really want Josh Langfeld in the lineup? Or a totally out of shape Tomas Kopecky? Please, let's be real here. One should be benched, yes, but not both. Unless you see some guy in GR that's lighting it up right now, who do you expect to come in and take thier spot?

[Hank 0]

Just that simple, huh?

- refuses to give Lang a limited role despite how useless he's been.

Lang made an extremely difficult back-bending pass to Bert who directly scored, was a +2 on the game, and went to the net much more frequently in game 4. But yeah, after that performance, he should get reduced TOI.

- breaks up the only line that's been consistant in this series (Cleary-Draper-Maltby)

Agreed, I would've kept them together

- sits Hudler instead of Sammy or Lang. Hudler was actually working very hard and producing. Sammy? 1 assist in 10 straight playoff games. And his one assist came from his falling on his ass and Zetts picking it up and going end-to-end for a goal.

Sammy and Lang aren't blowing this series for the Wings, the PP/PK and abandoning the Forecheck are.

- continues to put Sammy on the PP despite the fact that he can't hit the net if was the size of Rosie O'Donnells ass.

Lids, Schneider, and Lebda can't be out there for the entire 2 minutes every PP. Who would you put out there? Markov, Lilja, Cheli????

- Hasn't been able to figure out how to combat an aggressive PK. The Ducks, Flames, Oilers and now the Flames again have given us fits while on the PP. And yet we've never broken from our strategy of simply letting Lidstrom fire the puck and hope that Homer gets a stick on it or screens Kipersoff. Where are the other 2 forwards? On the side boards. Good job B'cock.

Yet they scored two goals in the first two games on the PP. No the PP hasn't been pretty, but you're making it out like you have the end all solution to the problem, which you don't. Moving the puck down low, while keeping Homer/Bert inf front of Kippur would work better IMO, than just getting 2 forwards in front of the net.

- and now I hear that he's going to bench Calder for Hudler. While Hudler should have never been sat, benching Calder is a huge mistake. He plays big, has good hands, and will go through walls for you. Instead, we'll keep Sammy in there who never hits the net and really doesn't contribute at all out there.

Has this been confirmed?

And who on the Wings should be?

Obvious......what's your point? Are you agreeing with me that the PP/PK is a problem?

I agree that Lang played better for the Wings last night. But he sucked in the 2nd and 3rd periods and he was beyond abysmal from game 1 thru 3. And yet, Babcock kept going back to him. He's basically only had 1 good period out of 12.

You're right, the PK and PP units are killing us, but Sammy and Lang have been useless. With Zetts struggling and Lang treating every game like it's a Sunday skate I'd like to see Zetts return to his natural position and given a shot to centre the 2nd line. Lang can centre the 4th line and take a few PP shifts here or there.

As far as the PP I would definately put Cheli out there for a PP or two. He can't be any worse than Sammy and he seems to be able to hit the net more than 2% of the time. He also ran the PP 2000 years ago when he was with Montreal and Chicago so he has experience with it. Outside of that, give Lebda a chance. Again, anything is better than Sammy. Anything.

Calder being sat hasn't been confirmed but the fact that he only got 4:56 minutes last game tells me he's the odd man out.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I agree that Lang played better for the Wings last night. But he sucked in the 2nd and 3rd periods and he was beyond abysmal from game 1 thru 3. And yet, Babcock kept going back to him. He's basically only had 1 good period out of 12.

You're right, the PK and PP units are killing us, but Sammy and Lang have been useless. With Zetts struggling and Lang treating every game like it's a Sunday skate I'd like to see Zetts return to his natural position and given a shot to centre the 2nd line. Lang can centre the 4th line and take a few PP shifts here or there.

I'm probably one the biggest Zetterberg fans on this site, but do you not realize that Z has no points thus far in the series? You are talking like Z needs 20:00+ of ice-time, and he hasn't even produced on the scoreboard as of yet.

I think Z is the best all around player on the Wings, but right now he's struggling to get back to his game.

As far as the PP I would definately put Cheli out there for a PP or two. He can't be any worse than Sammy and he seems to be able to hit the net more than 2% of the time. He also ran the PP 2000 years ago when he was with Montreal and Chicago so he has experience with it. Outside of that, give Lebda a chance. Again, anything is better than Sammy. Anything.

Calder being sat hasn't been confirmed but the fact that he only got 4:56 minutes last game tells me he's the odd man out.

Lidstrom, Schneider and Lebda = 3 People. You need one more, and if you want to get the PP rolling again, Cheli isn't any more the answer than you seem to think getting Sammy of it is.

Calder being sat hasn't been confirmed but the fact that he only got 4:56 minutes last game tells me he's the odd man out.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[Hank 0]

I'm probably one the biggest Zetterberg fans on this site, but do you not realize that Z has no points thus far in the series? You are talking like Z needs 20:00+ of ice-time, and he hasn't even produced on the scoreboard as of yet.

I think Z is the best all around player on the Wings, but right now he's struggling to get back to his game.

Lidstrom, Schneider and Lebda = 3 People. You need one more, and if you want to get the PP rolling again, Cheli isn't any more the answer than you seem to think getting Sammy of it is.

That doesn't necessarily mean anything.

No, but the papers have been suggesting that Hudler is 100% in for game 5. Who's he going to sit? Lang? Nope. Sammy? Nope, he was still on the PP last game and given prime minutes. Calder with only 4:56 TOI. I'd say it's a lock.

The difference between Lang and Zetts is that Z produced all year long and didn't seem to float every game like Lang. He's also been working very hard in this series despite putting up 0 points. Lang got 2 points from two good shifts and even then, Bertuzzi had a lot to do with it.

I think Lang has the talent to take over games. But it's the classic saying "All the tools but no toolbox".

EDIT: wanted to add why you think Chelios can't do the same job as Sammy? Seriously, Sammy never hits the net. The only time he does is when he's 2 feet away from it and then he hits the goalie right in the chest. He also needs to learn to keep the puck low on point shots. Instead he wires them off the end boards.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Hank

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

No, but the papers have been suggesting that Hudler is 100% in for game 5. Who's he going to sit? Lang? Nope. Sammy? Nope, he was still on the PP last game and given prime minutes. Calder with only 4:56 TOI. I'd say it's a lock.

The difference between Lang and Zetts is that Z produced all year long and didn't seem to float every game like Lang. He's also been working very hard in this series despite putting up 0 points. Lang got 2 points from two good shifts and even then, Bertuzzi had a lot to do with it.

I think Lang has the talent to take over games. But it's the classic saying "All the tools but no toolbox".

While I understand your reasoning, effort doesn't always equal production. Sometimes its being in the right place at the right time. Z is just having a little difficulty getting back his form. It'll come back sooner than later, but we need to win 2 of the next 3 for there to be a later.

EDIT: wanted to add why you think Chelios can't do the same job as Sammy? Seriously, Sammy never hits the net. The only time he does is when he's 2 feet away from it and then he hits the goalie right in the chest. He also needs to learn to keep the puck low on point shots. Instead he wires them off the end boards.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't think Cheli would make a huge impact over what Sammy is already doing.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25