Nabokov vs. DET

[Donaldjr2448 43]

...yes, just look at the SOG. If it hadn't been for Kipper the flipper, we'd have swept them and outscored them 90-10!

...yet the Wings handily won the season series 6-2 (with one of those losses in OT)

...just replace the words Sharks with Flyers and this sounds like 1997 all over again. Anyone care to remind this guy what happened then?

Ahhh Yes, the Legion of Broom!!! I remember that quite well!!!!! I really remember the parade in Downtown after that series too, it was off the hook!! I like the fact San Jose is Confident,I think it brings the best out of the Wings. If we stay out of the box we have a great shot against these guys, if we don't we are toast!!! If I'm not mistaken, Nashville was 3-1 against San Jose this year, so I guess that doesn't mean much!! I kept saying all year long Nashville was OVERATED!!

SHARK, its whats for Dinner!!!!! UMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[LeftWinger 4,934]

...ok, here is what most fans of opposing teams forget. Hasek time to shine is the playoffs. So the Sharks scored 8 goals on him, lets look over the coarse of the season how many games has Hasek given up 6 or 8 goals? Hmmmmm....

....Hasek is the ultimate big game player. Sure he makes a mistake once in a great while, but ALWAYS makes up for it with something huge! No WAY the Sharks score 6 goals on him.

[WingsDC2B 0]

Ah, I thought so.

"His career stats would have been better if he had the Red Wings Off/Def in front of him...." Perhaps. Let's look at his stats against the Sharks with the Red Wings and find out.

I am not keen on any regular season stats as a reliable predictor in the playoffs. If a Sharks fanatic believes the Sharks will score 6 on Hasek beacuse they got 8 in the last game, I'll be glad to give them long odds. Using stats from Hasek's days with the Sabres is just as meaningless, IMO. If you want to feel reassured citing Hasek's regular season stats from several years ago while playing on another team, go ahead. It doesn't prove your point, though.

Unless you have a crystal ball or can see the future, history and past stats are all we have... if past performance and stats don't mean anything... then why are the owners paying millions of $$$ to guys based on that exact thing. They must be wrong... hmmm... but wait they have all that $$$ for a reason...

[Roz 2]

I still don't understand how everyone is still hung up on this whole age thing. We're not THAT old, and Hasek and Cheli are showing everyone that 40 is the new 30.

[EuroTwin 240]

1) Kipprusoff may be better than Nabby, but he had no goal support. Just look at the SOG in that series.

2) How can you say you are a way better team than Nashville when the Wings scored only 3 points more than them in the regular season.

3) Nashville was an extremely quick team and I don't think you have the speed to get many scoring chances. I also think that the Wings are too old to compete with such a young and big team as the Sharks. The Wings have 13 players over 30 (2 over 40) and the Sharks have only 4.

The wings have 16 players under 200 lbs and 10 over. The Sharks have only 4 players under 200 lbs and have 21 players over. You may come out of the gate with more quaility scoring chances, but it won't last.

Interesting points.

1.) Yeup. I agree with you there. Nabby is going to have a much better team in front of him, no doubt. And I did look at the SOG in that series. Every night we played and every time they showed it in all it's ridiculousness.

2.) I believe we are a better team than Nashville because, if I remember correctly, and do tell me if I'm wrong, but I think we went 6-1-1 during the regular season. Now, I'm of the opinion that once the Playoffs start, the Regular season is but a distant memory, but I know we had Nashville's number.

3.) While yes, we are an older team and yes, you are a younger team, I don't believe this has any real relevance on the series at all. I'm 22 and that doesn't mean that I'm going to win the Tour de France if I bike against Lance Armstrong, whose 36. This competition is going to be about skills. And strength and speed, yes all those things you assume you have the advantage on because your team is younger? I find that to be foolish.

I'm not trying to say that your team isn't as good as they are, because this matchup makes me very nervous. The Sharks are a great team, and they are going to be tough to play against, but what I don't think you understand is how different the Red Wings are playing. Compared to this past regular season and the past couple of playoffs. I mean, Pavel Datsyuk LEVELED Dion Phanuef MULTIPLE TIMES. Dats is 5'11 and 197lbs and not, repeat not known for hitting flies, much less 6'3 210+ lb "future-norris-trophy winning" (according to the guys on CBC and VS at least) defensemen.

This is going to be a battle, and I hope you understand that even though the Sharks seemed to have a walk in the park with the Preds, it's not going to be like that this time.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I'm going to play devil's advocate to an extent here.

Shark fans, understand this first. Watching most of the Wings games this year, I think I can get a lot of people agree with me that Hasek is definitely not the same goalie he was back in the Buffalo days. He's over the hill, yes. But he's managed to stay healthy all year at 40+ years old and when he has missed a few games due to injury, it hasn't been his famous groin problem. I highly doubt the groin is going to be an issue again (knock on wood). With all that being said, he's still doing pretty damn good at 42 years old, and as long as he doesn't go too nuts with his crease wandering, I'd take him against Nabokov in a goalie duel.

Wings fans, understand where I am coming from here. I won't deny that the team has had success against Nabokov. Most of y'all in here know the stats like the back of your hand better than I ever will (both the stats and your hands ). Let's come back down to earth though, some of us are sounding like we're going to pepper Toskala for 15 goals a game. He's a starting goaltender in the NHL for a reason. Be careful what we wish for and don't take him lightly.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

I'm going to play devil's advocate to an extent here.

Shark fans, understand this first. Watching most of the Wings games this year, I think I can get a lot of people agree with me that Hasek is definitely not the same goalie he was back in the Buffalo days. He's over the hill, yes. But he's managed to stay healthy all year at 40+ years old and when he has missed a few games due to injury, it hasn't been his famous groin problem. I highly doubt the groin is going to be an issue again (knock on wood). With all that being said, he's still doing pretty damn good at 42 years old, and as long as he doesn't go too nuts with his crease wandering, I'd take him against Nabokov in a goalie duel.

Here is just a quick view of some of Hasek stats, both in Buffalo and here in Detroit. Pretty much the same...

YEAR W / L-GAA-SAV-

06-07 38-11 2.05 .913

01-02 41-15 2.17 .915

98-99 30-18 1.87 .937

97-98 33-23 2.09 .932

96-97 37-20 2.27 .930

93-94 30-20 1.93 .930

[Star_Hunter 0]

The GAA may be around the same but the SV% is no where near the same. GAA is more of a team stats while SV% is the more important one to look it, and hes not as good as he used to be, though still better than Nabokov.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Hasek among the best ever

Over the hill? You cannot be serious. In the Calgary series, "the other goalie" was the story. Dom made the difference in that series. He might not be as good as he once was, but as long as he's better than the other team's keeper, I don't see the problem here. Wow, Detroit fans are tough on their goalies.

"When the Wings signed him, we said they took a chance. How can you take a chance by signing one of the best players ever after an excellent season?"

Look for Dom to be the difference maker again in this series. As Joe Thorton said, "Hasek's like fine wine, he gets better with age."

[ZwedishWing 0]

Old stats way be interesting but I don't think that would have a huge influence on this series. There are completely different conditions going into the playoffs compared with the regular season.

One key as I see it to handle Nabokovs style of play is to stay cool and not always shoot at the first possible occasion. He likes coming long way out of the crease and that could be exploited if you can hold your shot and find a pass in behind him.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Old stats way be interesting but I don't think that would have a huge influence on this series. There are completely different conditions going into the playoffs compared with the regular season.

One key as I see it to handle Nabokovs style of play is to stay cool and not always shoot at the first possible occasion. He likes coming long way out of the crease and that could be exploited if you can hold your shot and find a pass in behind him.

OK, so nothing about Lidstrom's or Cheli's or anyone elses stats in their career mean anything either, I guess. Hasek is a great playoff goalie, and all of the stats quoted are by definition, in the past, therefore "old."

[ZwedishWing 0]

OK, so nothing about Lidstrom's or Cheli's or anyone elses stats in their career mean anything either, I guess. Hasek is a great playoff goalie, and all of the stats quoted are by definition, in the past, therefore "old."

I didn't say that it means nothing, but I don't think the Nabokov stats against Detroit in the regular season are of great importance for the outcome of this series. His recent play and current form are more interesting as I see it.

[WingsDC2B 0]

I didn't say that it means nothing, but I don't think the Nabokov stats against Detroit in the regular season are of great importance for the outcome of this series. His recent play and current form are more interesting as I see it.

Remember young jedi,

"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior"

[Kp-Wings 3]

Nabokov is a good goalie. I can't believe some of you guys are saying he isn't.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

The GAA may be around the same but the SV% is no where near the same. GAA is more of a team stats while SV% is the more important one to look it, and hes not as good as he used to be, though still better than Nabokov.

Mainly because he faced fewer shots this year around....

the GAA is the most telling stat there. It shows Hasek still has it even those he's getting pretty close to retirement....

[FabHckyBbe 2]

Nabokov is a good goalie. I can't believe some of you guys are saying he isn't.

Thank you.

Nabby is a very good goalie. Not perhaps in the league of Hasek, who though he may have lost a step, is still an exceptional goalie to be reckoned with. Hasek has experience on his side no doubt about it. I know that many posters have said not to take his age into account, but still, he's no spring chicken and he has had injury problems in the past. Hopefully, those are fully behind him now.

One thing Nabby has in his corner is intangibles....#1 Desire to prove himself -- Hasek's been there, done that. He's got a Cup already. Does he still have the fire in his belly needed to go the distance? Nabby's never done it. He needs to prove to himself and the naysayers that he is an elite goalie. That big shiny silver thing would go a long way towards that goal. #2 Warren Strelow. Nabby's playing for his coach, mentor and father figure who died on opening night of the playoffs. He's going to work his ass off to make Warren proud.

Should be a great series. Yikes! Less than 2 hours to go....

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Hasek among the best ever

Over the hill? You cannot be serious. In the Calgary series, "the other goalie" was the story. Dom made the difference in that series. He might not be as good as he once was, but as long as he's better than the other team's keeper, I don't see the problem here. Wow, Detroit fans are tough on their goalies.

"When the Wings signed him, we said they took a chance. How can you take a chance by signing one of the best players ever after an excellent season?"

Look for Dom to be the difference maker again in this series. As Joe Thorton said, "Hasek's like fine wine, he gets better with age."

Well, your technically over the hill at 40. or so I thought. Chelios is over the hill as well, and he's still effective. *shrugs*

At ease...nobody is discrediting his importance to the Wings this season, and to the playoffs so far.

[tiburones 0]

Well, your technically over the hill at 40. or so I thought. Chelios is over the hill as well, and he's still effective. *shrugs*

At ease...nobody is discrediting his importance to the Wings this season, and to the playoffs so far.

I hope Chelios doesn't go down to try to block a shot...he might break a hip.

[Obsessed Sharks Fan 0]

Well, your technically over the hill at 40. or so I thought. Chelios is over the hill as well, and he's still effective. *shrugs*

At ease...nobody is discrediting his importance to the Wings this season, and to the playoffs so far.

I didn't have the center ice package until last season, but I first started assessing Chelios' age factor in the Olympics. I think he had a pretty terrible showing in the Olympics, but that may be due to the fact that it's one big sprint playing nearly every day. And this made me think of my next point:

40 may be the new 30 but it aint the new 22. At 22 your body recovers so much faster than at 42. That's why I think if the series a tough grind and goes to 6 or 7, Sharks have an advantage due to youth. I respectfully disagree to anyone who says it's foolish to to think youth is a factor. Cheli and Lidstrom are obviously in AMAZING shape but they are still human. It will come down to the advantages of youth and size vs. advantages of experience.

Lastly, Im' sorry about Holmstrom. He reminds Sharks fans of a more skilled Ricci. Ricci was a fan favorite for being a tough-it-out, take-the-abuse type guy. After I heard the eye injury was potentially very serious, resulting in no less than 3 games out, I felt bad that this happened to such a good guy.

Edited April 27, 2007 by Obsessed Sharks Fan

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

To expect Chelios to skate and move around like his Montreal or early Chicago days is quite unreasonable, but I definitely understand the viewpoint where you are coming from.

Basically my point is, and I'm trying hard not to sound like a Red Wings homer here, is that in one of my recent posts above is that Hasek, and you might as well include Chelios as well due to being over 40 and he's been mentioned, are still very effective despite their "old" age in terms of being an effective athlete. To expect them to play at the level 24-7 of when they were in their primes is way too much to ask. But, these are two extremely hard working athletes.

I think it's safe to say that Hasek just despises losing and I think I've read enough on here or on Detroit papers online and such to make a safe assumption that he rarely takes time off. He practices hard, he wants to win, he wants to be as close to a perfectionist as possbile.

And with Chelios, the guy is just ridiculously in shape, even at 45. Last season at 44, he had a really slow start to the season IMO and I was wandering if his time was finally done. He picked up his play though last year and this season I can't really recall any moments where I can confidently say with accuracy, "Chelios just stunk up the joint that game."

Back to the original topic at hand, with Nabakov's lack of success for the most part against Detroit throughout his career. The stats don't lie obviously throughout that time, but I don't understand how Wings members in here think he isn't all that good of a goalie. That's the perception I get, and either it's a shame that I perceive that or it's a shame that a lot of members feel this way. I'm not going to consider him a bona-fide top-5 goalie in the NHL today (although my naiveity might play in barely seeing any Shark games this year), but he's a starter in the NHL for a reason and is a very capable goalie that can steal a few games IMO.