Fan response

[Guest nutz2u]

I can recall reading an article online from either the News or Freepress back in '98 I believe, stating that the Red Wings total revenue for '96 was over 200 million (now lotta caps and sweaters) that my friends is PRIOR to winning the Stanley Cup. Can't imagine what it was in '97 and '98.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

According to Ticketmaster.com, the ticket prices are as follows:

Lower Bowl US $135 - $153

Upper Bowl US $72 - $153

Standing Room $77

A freind and I went to a few games, we sat in the upper bowl, our tickets were $24 each. This is a 300% mark up. Why am I not attending games? Figure in that no one goes alone, so all costs are doubled. Parking is increased. I usually park next to Cobo, there is a parking garage there that is valet for $10. I hear that same parking garage for playoffs is $30 now. I live an hour away, gas is $3.00 a gallon. So here is a rough estimate on a single game cost.

Tickets (2) $168 (including TM $7.00 rape charge for each ticket)

Drinks & Food (2) $40

Parking $30

Gas $20

That's a total of $258 for one game, with cheap seats, and a conserative estimate on drinks and food. One could easily spend $50 on food and drinks. Hell, a beer is what, $8 or $10 in the playoffs? That high price, coupled with the poor Michigan economy is why you see so many empty seats.

As for the ticket prices not being lower, I can see where everyone is coming from. Espically since Detroit and Toronto were the only teams not to lower ticket prices when the new CBA was instituted. However, Detroit also hasn't raised ticket prices in the past 7-10 years. Also remember that up until last year, Illitch needed to make enough money to not only keep the Wings competative, but also keep the Tigers from going under. Hopefully now that the Tigers are getting better, and drawing bigger crowds, Illitch will be able to let the Tigers keep the Tigers afloat.

[Flip-check 6]

Someone called in to Stoney and Wojo about this and had a pretty good explanation which ive thought as well. Theres just not really anyone on the team to identify with and get behind,..no Yzerman, no Shanahan, no McCarty. These guys were heroes around here. Now with the Wings being a predominantly european led team its just not the same to the fans. Also, the Tigers have alot to do with it as well. They are the new "in" thing and have stolen alot of the Wings thunder.

I don't think this factors so much into playoff-purchases right now, but I think you're right that it has a hand in a broader, general fan reaction. It occurred to me last night too when thinking about how the team doesn't have any of "those guys": Because, honestly, it's a young team and no one knows who's who yet. Lidstrom? Okay. Draper? We got that. Chelios? Ozzie? Them too.

They're names that have history behind them and everybody knows who they are. It'll take time with the other guys like Zetterberg, Dats, and anyone else, but at the same time... I still think there's a cultural barrier in the way though. The knocks against Feds' antics aside, it was far easier to identify with good ol' Ontario-born Shanahan than #91.

I don't think that's so much because they're from somewhere else that makes the general fan sentiment less (or prejudice, in other words), but rather what it means that they didn't grow up where you did. Like the way that you may identify more with an American off the bat in a German airport than you will with most the citizens, because of that common tie.

And talk about a post. I am done. But the no "identifiable heroes" is a significant thing in general, I think.

[leftshotsarebetter 0]

They might have a stronger economy but the overall cost of living is WAY higher out there.

true that !

Property in Detroit

2900 sq ft house less than 10 years old for $370,000 !!!!! plus look at that nifty traditional design. that thing is sweet.

Meanwhile, San Jose real estate:

San Jose property

Your typical old ranch with expansion over garage. 2100 sq ft. $825,000

I know this is silly but since I work in the real estate I can't get over how people think we have it so easy here in California when they seem to forget to take into account how difficult it is to live here. we are slaves to our mortgage. our RENT prices are more than them buying an entire house in Detroit. God forbid our minimum wage is over $7 an hour. . .

[Barrie 900]

Someone called in to Stoney and Wojo about this and had a pretty good explanation which ive thought as well. Theres just not really anyone on the team to identify with and get behind,..no Yzerman, no Shanahan, no McCarty. These guys were heroes around here. Now with the Wings being a predominantly european led team its just not the same to the fans. Also, the Tigers have alot to do with it as well. They are the new "in" thing and have stolen alot of the Wings thunder.

I've thought the same thing.

I'm sure the Pistons have something to do with it as well.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I don't think this factors so much into playoff-purchases right now, but I think you're right that it has a hand in a broader, general fan reaction. It occurred to me last night too when thinking about how the team doesn't have any of "those guys": Because, honestly, it's a young team and no one knows who's who yet. Lidstrom? Okay. Draper? We got that. Chelios? Ozzie? Them too.

They're names that have history behind them and everybody knows who they are. It'll take time with the other guys like Zetterberg, Dats, and anyone else, but at the same time... I still think there's a cultural barrier in the way though. The knocks against Feds' antics aside, it was far easier to identify with good ol' Ontario-born Shanahan than #91.

I don't think that's so much because they're from somewhere else that makes the general fan sentiment less (or prejudice, in other words), but rather what it means that they didn't grow up where you did. Like the way that you may identify more with an American off the bat in a German airport than you will with most the citizens, because of that common tie.

And talk about a post. I am done. But the no "identifiable heroes" is a significant thing in general, I think.

I would strongly disagree. I don't identify with Modano because he is from Livonia. I identify with Pav because he is wearing the winged wheel. When Fedorov was here, (even still) I loved watching him carry the puck up the ice, weaving in and out of traffic with ease.

I think if there is a lack of identification with the current Wings, it isn't because of their nationality, rather it's because they haven't really done anything since 2002. I gauruntee if the Wings had made it past the second round more than once since 2002, you'd see more people in the seats, as there would still be a buzz around the Wings. That buzz would make the Wings playoff games more of a place to be, and you'd get the people who can afford to drop the $300-$500 on a night of hockey, filling the stands.

I belive moreso than anything, we have seen the bandwagon fans jump ship to the Tigers. That, coupled with the high cost of the games, and awful economy are killing the attendance at the Joe.

Anyone know where I can win some tickets?

[OsGOD 3]

true that !

Property in Detroit

2900 sq ft house less than 10 years old for $370,000 !!!!! plus look at that nifty traditional design. that thing is sweet.

Meanwhile, San Jose real estate:

San Jose property

Your typical old ranch with expansion over garage. 2100 sq ft. $825,000

I know this is silly but since I work in the real estate I can't get over how people think we have it so easy here in California when they seem to forget to take into account how difficult it is to live here. we are slaves to our mortgage. our RENT prices are more than them buying an entire house in Detroit. God forbid our minimum wage is over $7 an hour. . .

Well in all fairness... not many people actually live in the actual city of detroit. Most come from the suburbs and well just 25miles west of Detroit there are Million dollar homes up all around... so it really is all relative... 390,000 in DETROIT is a huge rip off!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Gotta say , I really miss mac.

I love Danny , But if Mac was playing with Drapes and Malts again. He'd be a completely different hockey player. Danny could player with Calder and Big bert as Danny can play C if we really wanted too

[OsGOD 3]

I'm sure the Pistons have something to do with it as well.

I wonder if the Pistons are blaming the Wings for not selling out their home playoff games.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Here is something I just thought about. The Wings are competing with the Pistons who are in the playoffs, as well as the hot ticket in town, the Tigers. How much of an impact does that have?

[leftshotsarebetter 0]

Well in all fairness... not many people actually live in the actual city of detroit. Most come from the suburbs and well just 25miles west of Detroit there are Million dollar homes up all around... so it really is all relative... 390,000 in DETROIT is a huge rip off!

I had a feeling after looking at realtor.com lol

[OsGOD 3]

I had a feeling after looking at realtor.com lol

yeah

[Guest LivingtheDream]

I don't buy it - that is all due to economy. Something else is going on. There is less passion about this team. The Tiger's sure didn't have a problem selling all their seats last post season. There are something like 4 million people in Metro Detroit. Not all of them are unemployed. Or are Redwing fans traditionally people who work in job sectors that could be hurting now? Whatever it is, it is sad and I am not at all blaming ANY fan.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I don't buy it - that is all due to economy. Something else is going on. There is less passion about this team. The Tiger's sure didn't have a problem selling all their seats last post season. There are something like 4 million people in Metro Detroit. Not all of them are unemployed. Or are Redwing fans traditionally people who work in job sectors that could be hurting now? Whatever it is, it is sad and I am not at all blaming ANY fan.

The Tigers are putting fresh air out there. They were soooo terrible for sooooo long, it was a bandwagon thing. Still is. Did you see the shirt Zumaya was sporting late in the season, 'I was a Tiger fan BEFORE 2006'.

[OsGOD 3]

I don't buy it - that is all due to economy. Something else is going on. There is less passion about this team. The Tiger's sure didn't have a problem selling all their seats last post season. There are something like 4 million people in Metro Detroit. Not all of them are unemployed. Or are Redwing fans traditionally people who work in job sectors that could be hurting now? Whatever it is, it is sad and I am not at all blaming ANY fan.

Detroit is known for mainly the Auto Industry... right now Auto Industry Layoffs left and right. I go to work EVERY DAY wondering if today our company will hand out the pink slips. The Auto Industry and manufacturing jobs as a whole are suffering. Suppliers all the way up to the actual Big three and firing left and right.

Therefore your bolded statement does carry some weight!

Edited April 27, 2007 by OsGOD

[Donaldjr2448 43]

Detroit is known for mainly the Auto Industry... right now Auto Industry Layoffs left and right. I go to work EVERY DAY wondering if today our company will hand out the pink slips. The Auto Industry and manufacturing jobs as a whole are suffering. Suppliers all the way up to the actual Big three and firing left and right.

Therefore your bolded statement does carry some weight!

I was born and raised in Metro Detroit. I was an electrician in the Greater Detroit Area, due to layoffs I had to move to Tennessee where the industry is AWESOME!! I watched every Wings game on Center Ice this year and attended 1 Wings game in Nashville. I know what it feels like to be in your guys shoes and I really hope things turn around up there because I would move back in a second. I miss my family and friends. Hockey is NOT big down here at all, and I hate that or you get the fair weather Predaturds fans who don't know what offside is, it completely sucks. What i miss the most is attending Wings games at the Joe, but with those prices I would also be watching on TV. I like the fact the Joe isn't selling out, it shows that the Wings are not the only thing going on and maybe Mr. I will grow a set and drop the prices. Even when the economy was good the prices were too high. Just my thoughts!!

[Flip-check 6]

I think if there is a lack of identification with the current Wings, it isn't because of their nationality, rather it's because they haven't really done anything since 2002.

Part that, but mostly? They're young. They haven't done a great deal in their careers yet--so the general fans out there.. not the "I check LGW daily" fans... have less to go with there to know them by. Playoff losses do play a hand in "what they've done" (or not done) though, so it's both.

I would strongly disagree. I don't identify with Modano because he is from Livonia. I identify with Pav because he is wearing the winged wheel. When Fedorov was here, (even still) I loved watching him carry the puck up the ice, weaving in and out of traffic with ease.

Right, but if we had a North American player who played as offensive a game as Dats or Z, who do you honestly think would get more media and fan - not attention, not acclaim, but fondness? People can say that Sergei couldn't get it because of Yzerman, but that's a bad example: Shanahan became quite a favorite, regardless of the captain.

This was in a different way than the awe that we had for Sergei's skills: Feds was a great player, but Shanahan was like the hometown guy you want to invite to your place on the weekend because there was something -outside- his playmaking that you could connect with. He strikes you as a sociable kind of guy you'd make friends with easily, and that's not at all something that doesn't exist when people interact with eachother. Aside from cultural barriers, language barriers also factor in.

As "not nice" as that sounds, but I consider it a very real aspect of different cultures blending together anywhere, whether in the sports world or elsewhere. We love players like Zata or Dats because of their skills--but maybe that's precisely my point. People love them for their skills, but aside from the random fan who adores a specific player, that's all most people do: love them for their on-ice ability.

This is different than identifying with them as a person on a personal level, I insist. This is also not to say no one can identify with them as a person, either: but I would argue that, say, Pavel's proficiency with English leaves less to "get" than Lidstrom's essential mastery of the language.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

This was in a different way than the awe that we had for Sergei's skills: Feds was a great player, but Shanahan was like the hometown guy you want to invite to your place on the weekend because there was something -outside- his playmaking that you could connect with. He strikes you as a sociable kind of guy you'd make friends with easily, and that's not at all something that doesn't exist when people interact with eachother. Aside from cultural barriers, language barriers also factor in.

I think the reason Shanny was more of a fan favorite than Sergei was simply because he has more camera presence than Sergei. Sergei is, for the most part, a quiet guy who likes his own space. Shanny loves the spotlight, and I don't think he has ever turned down an interveiw.

If we were to have a guy like A.O. and a guy like Modano on the team, I firmly believe A.O. would be more of a fan favorite than Modano for the same reasons Shanny was moreso than Sergei. It has more to do with the person rather than his nationality.

[lets go pavel 2]

Someone called in to Stoney and Wojo about this and had a pretty good explanation which ive thought as well. Theres just not really anyone on the team to identify with and get behind,..no Yzerman, no Shanahan, no McCarty. These guys were heroes around here. Now with the Wings being a predominantly european led team its just not the same to the fans. Also, the Tigers have alot to do with it as well. They are the new "in" thing and have stolen alot of the Wings thunder.

Okay, I don't live anywhere near Detroit, but you can't tell me that people who are Wings fans and hockey fans suddenly give up and go watch baseball just because Yzerman, Shanny and Mac are gone. Yes, it's a different team, a younger team, but they're no less exciting, and they're still YOUR team. Besides ... baseball? Don't get me wrong, I like baseball, but if I have to choose between watching baseball and hockey there's no contest. Either the people who were buying the tickets before weren't really fans to begin with (in which case their absence isn't a big deal) or they're being priced out of the arena. I gotta say the latter ... those prices are high for a lot of folks.

[8888 0]

So true! My husband and I usually get standing room tix when we go to regular season games since we have no problems affording those. My favorite thing to see is the two girls in the lower bowl seats with their skirts and stilettos on who could give a crap about the game. UGH! Drives me crazy! How about you give me your tickets and I'll sit in the sweet seats and actually pay attention to the game!!

Always wanted to go to a game in Detroit, but I live in ILLINOIS and the Blackhawks suck!!!!! More people really need to go to root on the home team now that were in the second round of the playoffs . The girls sit in the lower bowl seats to get a good look at the hockey players .

[PamDatsyuk 0]

Well this is my first post to a topic, so I apologize if it don't get it right This posting hits home with me as I'm 25 years old and my name came up for season tickets this year. Of course I had to buy them, but being a college student I had to split the cost between 2 credit cards. I live 2 hours away from Detroit, so it's not a far drive for me, but to sell my tickets was the hardest thing I had to do this year. Before I got my season tickets, I would pay DOUBLE face value on ebay to go to games and now that I have my season tickets, sales on even ebay have dropped way below face value, what luck! I am down about $1000 because I made the decision to buy rounds 1 and 2 of the playoffs. It was fun to have them for a year but unfortunately I won't renew next year, simply by them from ticketmaster. I paid more money to see the first game where we played the ducks when sergei got traded than what money I could get for any of my playoff tickets. I do agree that most of the people I've been seeing at the game are people just there for the beer and it does kill me when people get up early and leave. At least I know I'm there for hockey, and a trip to the joe is like a trip to disneyland for me!

[Crazy4Wings 0]

Those are a bit pricey, but whats a few hundred to see the playoffs?

Something else that bugged the hell out of me was how many fans left the arena only down two goals with like 5 minutes left.

This has happened in SJ of course (anywhere really) and I've seen miracles happen, like the Ricci hat trick with seconds left against Dallas, or the 3-1 comeback with 33 seconds left against LA. Hell, even if we're doomed, I never leave...it's hockey for pete's sake. ANYTHING could happen. Not to mention the Wings are notorious for comebacks in the 3rd.

People leave the Joe early because it takes forever to get out of there.

[Flip-check 6]

If we were to have a guy like A.O. and a guy like Modano on the team, I firmly believe A.O. would be more of a fan favorite than Modano for the same reasons Shanny was moreso than Sergei. It has more to do with the person rather than his nationality.

Personality matters, yeah, but in Ovechkin's case--I'd say that'd be more because of his talent and star power. Not so much because of a great personality or connectability to fans.

That's where one of the differences lay.

[FabHckyBbe 2]

true that !

Property in Detroit

2900 sq ft house less than 10 years old for $370,000 !!!!! plus look at that nifty traditional design. that thing is sweet.

I live in a 20 year old 900 sq. foot condo that is valued at $400K plus. Thanks to Propsition 13, a state law that passed in 1979, I pay well over 3 times the property tax as my parents who live in a single family detached home that is over twice the square footage of my condo. The difference is that they bought their house 30 years ago pre-Prop 13 and I bought 6 years ago post-Prop 13. Luckily, I was able to puchase my condo when it was possible for me to barely afford it, if I were trying to buy something now I'd never in a million year be able to as the purchase price I paid has gone up approximately 45% in 6 years. There is no housing of any kind available in San Jose for less than 300K, and a single family detached house will not go for less than $500K -- and that would be in the scariest neighborhood imaginable.

Did I mention that the high-tech industry is slowly pulling out of a downturn and jobs are once again on the rise. Just in time because my former employer laid off my entire work group of 25 people last January. I've been living on severance pay and unemployment since January. Last October my former employers shut down their Manufacturing Fab in the Bay Area and moved it overseas, laying off approximately 250 people. So we in teh Bay Area are not immune to layoffs either.

Also, gas is more expensive in CA than in any other state as we have more stringent environmental laws which makes it more expensive to produce (or so we're told). And the SF Bay Area has the highest gas prices in CA.

So, while I'm sure things truly are rough in Detroit, they aren't exactly rosy in the Bay Area, either.

[rosincula 0]

I live in a 20 year old 900 sq. foot condo that is valued at $400K plus. Thanks to Propsition 13, a state law that passed in 1979, I pay well over 3 times the property tax as my parents who live in a single family detached home that is over twice the square footage of my condo. The difference is that they bought their house 30 years ago pre-Prop 13 and I bought 6 years ago post-Prop 13. Luckily, I was able to puchase my condo when it was possible for me to barely afford it, if I were trying to buy something now I'd never in a million year be able to as the purchase price I paid has gone up approximately 45% in 6 years. There is no housing of any kind available in San Jose for less than 300K, and a single family detached house will not go for less than $500K -- and that would be in the scariest neighborhood imaginable.

Did I mention that the high-tech industry is slowly pulling out of a downturn and jobs are once again on the rise. Just in time because my former employer laid off my entire work group of 25 people last January. I've been living on severance pay and unemployment since January. Last October my former employers shut down their Manufacturing Fab in the Bay Area and moved it overseas, laying off approximately 250 people. So we in teh Bay Area are not immune to layoffs either.

So, while I'm sure things truly are rough in Detroit, they aren't exactly rosy in the Bay Area, either.

Now I'm not trying to pick a fight with ya by quoting you. I'm just adding to the ecomonic situation.

Like someone said eariler, those figures for housing in Detroit are inaccurate. Living in any house in Detroit is like living in a wasteland (and I'm not exaggerating in the least. Trash every where, roofs caving in and giant holes in houses) Hockey fans live in Metro Detroit. The new houses in my area (Downriver) are mostly 60+ years old unless they're riverside condos. They are still cheaper than what you guys pay for in San Jose, but I'm willing to bet that your neighborhoods and houses are wayyy nicer.

The job situation is atrocious everywhere from what I've heard, but every job in Detroit that is worth having is connected to the auto industry. My father, who has worked for Ford for over 30 years was recently laid off for about 6 months. One of his friends was forced into early retirement and now works a job for minimum wage. And I'm a former GM employee who now works for minimum wage as well. It's completely impossible to find a job right now unless you related to someone, and it's been that way for about 3-4 years, I'd guess. I don't know if it's like that elsewhere; I sure hope it isn't.

Sometimes, I just think that the poverty in Detroit needs to be exposed because it truly is frightening that it is not really discussed.