Paralyzed Snow Angel of Defeat

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

If anything good came of this thread, it was definitely the title. "Paralyzed Snow Angel of Defeat" is a pretty kickin' rad descriptor. I've got it on handy pretty much any time Hasek makes a save in his unique style from now on.

Just like Lang is lazy and he sucks, these things enter board lore...

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

And have we all learned something today then like Stan does everyday in South Park? Don’t create threads when you are pissed off and when you aren’t thinking completely straight then, then you won’t be misperceived.

Players get critiqued in here all the time. I cannot stand Hasek’s crease wandering and criticize him for that a good bit. Have you seen the endless amount of Lang and Samuelsson bashing threads this season? How about Bertuzzi’s recent thread? If I invested a dollar in every Lang and Samuelsson thread created these past two seasons critiquing those guys, I’d be a multi-millionaire by now.

Hasek is not a Greek god, but he is a very good ‘tender now even at over 40, he’s doing a solid job overall during these playoffs, and he can be criticized (and is being criticized during these playoffs) just like any other player.

Lesson learned indeed.

Wonder where the two main bashers are this morning? Nothing to say??? Helloooooo????

Ironic potential fact: the nominees for Vezina are very likely going to be playing golf soon, while the ignored Hasek is still battling in the playoffs.

Who's left? Oh, yea, that Hasek guy is still there.

Patience, patience. Mountain Standard Time here. And I have work to do at my job, can't post every 2 minutes.

As I said in another thread. Hasek played well last night. The bonehead plays by Hasek in Game 3 - that lead me to start this dorky thread- didn't happen last night. He still flopped around in a way only Hasek can, but he didn't stick with the paralysis. When he sprawled out in his little snow angel, he actually got back up and into position. What really pissed me off in Game 3 was he would do his flop, lay on his back and just look around. Game 4 he didn't do that.

In fact the only criticism I have of Hasek in last night's win (and it's pretty weak criticism) was it looked like he may have ducked away from the puck on the Sharks 2nd goal. It was a weird flukey goal where he probably never saw the puck coming, but seeing a goalie duck is kind of strange. Hell I'd duck away from a puck too, but I never signed up to be a goalie whose sole job is to get in front of the puck.

I still dislike Hasek, I still dislike his floppy style but as long as he doesn't flop on the ice and act PARALYZED, I will admit he can be a pretty decent goalie. My main argument in this thread beyond his motionless style of goaltending he sometimes displays is that he hasn't been as STELLAR as some people have been claiming. His GAA is as much a credit to the defensive game we've been playing. But last night he did play well. Kudos to the floppy bastard.

[Guest Crymson]

It's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't think Dom is god, that he isn't playing great.

And one last question, have you guys EVER looked at anything from a different POV than your own? You might want to try it, you could learn something.

It's clear to anyone? Find me the names. Does your brain encompass multiple consciousnesses?

The act of looking at different POVs is not really applicable in this case. One either approves of Hasek's play, or one does not. I think he has done very well.

Lesson learned indeed.

Patience, patience. Mountain Standard Time here. And I have work to do at my job, can't post every 2 minutes.

In fact the only criticism I have of Hasek in last night's win (and it's pretty weak criticism) was it looked like he may have ducked away from the puck on the Sharks 2nd goal. It was a weird flukey goal where he probably never saw the puck coming, but seeing a goalie duck is kind of strange. Hell I'd duck away from a puck too, but I never signed up to be a goalie whose sole job is to get in front of the puck.

I doubt a guy whose practice regimen includes blocking pucks with his helmet would shy away from a puck.

Hasek was in a crouch because the puck, had it not deflected, would have hit him square in the chest in the position he was in. As is, it did a rainbow over him and he couldn't see it in time to stop it.

My main argument in this thread beyond his motionless style of goaltending he sometimes displays is that he hasn't been as STELLAR as some people have been claiming.

People like BringHomeThePuck should read this section in order to see the difference between mere criticism and what they do.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Crymson

[OsGOD 3]

I must admit.. Dommie had a great game last night. Thats all I can say about that now... Time to go figure out why all the lang bashers turned into lang lovers over one goal.

Anyways... Dom need to keep up keeping the pucks out and we got this one.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

I doubt a guy whose practice regimen includes blocking pucks with his helmet would shy away from a puck.

Hasek was in a crouch because the puck, had it not deflected, would have hit him square in the chest in the position he was in. As is, it did a rainbow over him and he couldn't see it in time to stop it.

It definately was a flukey goal that I wouldn't expect him to stop- like you said by the time he saw the puck it was too late. But in one of the replays of that goal he does look to be ducking. It doesn't matter since that goal was beyond his control, it was just an odd sight.

I must admit.. Dommie had a great game last night. Thats all I can say about that now... Time to go figure out why all the lang bashers turned into lang lovers over one goal.

Anyways... Dom need to keep up keeping the pucks out and we got this one.

Another 2 games by Hasek like last night and the Wings have a great chance to advance..... as long as we get some offense going- which I think just might happen after last night.

[Red4wings4life 0]

I must admit.. Dommie had a great game last night. Thats all I can say about that now... Time to go figure out why all the lang bashers turned into lang lovers over one goal.

Anyways... Dom need to keep up keeping the pucks out and we got this one.

I have been a Lang support since I joined the Boards. Let me know what you find out.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Last post of the afternoon for me then I am off to work, I'll respond later tonight.

You can't blame Hasek on the second goal. It was a fluke, and if referance to his turing his head, it was probably in reaction to a (I think Choochoo's) stick flying at him. However, I still maintain he should have had the second goal.

SoWin, quite often when faced with a debate, I try to see things how the other people do. Can I always? No. But in this case, you just refuse to admit Dom isn't as good as you think he is. He hasn't yet (in this series) played like he can, thus far in the playoffs he hasn't stolen a game for us, and as far as keeping us in the series, every game he has allowed 2 goal. I'm sorry, but that just isn't good enough.

Cyrmson, how is looking at this from a different POV ever not aplicable? Try to see things without your 'Dom can do no wrong' glasses, or at least look at it objectively, if you can.

What do you mean read this section to see the difference between mere critisism and what I do? What have I said that is more than mere critisism? I think Dom needs to play better (just for clarification, since some people jump to conclusions, this does NOT mean he has to be perfect), I think he needs to stop pretending like he knows how to handle the puck, and I think he needs to steal a game for us.

In every thread I've posted critisism of Dom, I've also stated that I don't feel like any loss was all his fault, and that the rest of the team also needs to play better. You guys are the ones who choose to make it out like I have some vindetta against Dom.

[JaketheShark 0]

But last night he did play well. Kudos to the floppy bastard. sly.gif

A truly heartfelt apology

At least you don't have a bunch of posts saying play Osgood. Some Sharks fans are calling for Toskala in game 5, now there's a goalie controversy. Here the debate seems to be whether Hasek is or still is a great goalie or merely an extremely good one.

[Red4wings4life 0]

Last post of the afternoon for me then I am off to work, I'll respond later tonight.

You can't blame Hasek on the second goal. It was a fluke, and if referance to his turing his head, it was probably in reaction to a (I think Choochoo's) stick flying at him. However, I still maintain he should have had the second goal.

SoWin, quite often when faced with a debate, I try to see things how the other people do. Can I always? No. But in this case, you just refuse to admit Dom isn't as good as you think he is. He hasn't yet (in this series) played like he can, thus far in the playoffs he hasn't stolen a game for us, and as far as keeping us in the series, every game he has allowed 2 goal. I'm sorry, but that just isn't good enough.

Cyrmson, how is looking at this from a different POV ever not aplicable? Try to see things without your 'Dom can do no wrong' glasses, or at least look at it objectively, if you can.

What do you mean read this section to see the difference between mere critisism and what I do? What have I said that is more than mere critisism? I think Dom needs to play better (just for clarification, since some people jump to conclusions, this does NOT mean he has to be perfect), I think he needs to stop pretending like he knows how to handle the puck, and I think he needs to steal a game for us.

In every thread I've posted critisism of Dom, I've also stated that I don't feel like any loss was all his fault, and that the rest of the team also needs to play better. You guys are the ones who choose to make it out like I have some vindetta against Dom.

RK Player Team SA GP GA GAA W L OT Sv Sv% TOI

1 MARTY TURCO DAL 229 7 11 1.30 3 4 0 218 .952 509:13

2 J GIGUERE ANA 159 6 8 1.42 4 1 0 151 .950 338:38

3 DOMINIK HASEK DET 221 10 18 1.70 6 4 0 203 .919 636:05

Those #s are As much as you can ask for. Yes his GAA is 2.00 in these Series but 2 goals a game gives your team the ability to win. Dom will never stop playing the puck, like I said in the other thread it is part of his style.

Is he playing the best games of his Career? No I dont think so but I do think Dom is playing better then okay, he is playing great.

On a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being perfect) I would say an 8 to an 8 1/2

What would you give him?

I value your PoV, I think you provide good information on why you think Dom is not playing great. I disagree that Dom should of had that first Goal of Game 4 because it would have takeing a lucky save to stop it. Dom is playing better then you are giving him credit for though, he has made some huge huge saves. He also made some bone headed plays. But to say that he needs to play better, I dont agree, He is making the big saves when he needs to, he is making the Sharks think before they shoot and that is huge when you can do that to an offensive team like the Sharks.

But last night he did play well. Kudos to the floppy bastard. sly.gif

A truly heartfelt apology

At least you don't have a bunch of posts saying play Osgood. Some Sharks fans are calling for Toskala in game 5, now there's a goalie controversy. Here the debate seems to be whether Hasek is or still is a great goalie or merely an extremely good one.

haha really, Sharks fans are saying play Toskala? Why? Langs goal was a little iffy but the other 2 goals were out right unstoppable. I think Nabby has played his best Hockey in the Playoffs. I dont think Toskala would do any better.

I think its great the Wings are making the Sharks doubt their Goalie. WOOHOO keep it up Boys. GO Wings

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

RK Player Team SA GP GA GAA W L OT Sv Sv% TOI

1 MARTY TURCO DAL 229 7 11 1.30 3 4 0 218 .952 509:13

2 J GIGUERE ANA 159 6 8 1.42 4 1 0 151 .950 338:38

3 DOMINIK HASEK DET 221 10 18 1.70 6 4 0 203 .919 636:05

Those #s are As much as you can ask for. Yes his GAA is 2.00 in these Series but 2 goals a game gives your team the ability to win. Dom will never stop playing the puck, like I said in the other thread it is part of his style.

Is he playing the best games of his Career? No I dont think so but I do think Dom is playing better then okay, he is playing great.

On a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being perfect) I would say an 8 to an 8 1/2

What would you give him?

I value your PoV, I think you provide good information on why you think Dom is not playing great. I disagree that Dom should of had that first Goal of Game 4 because it would have takeing a lucky save to stop it. Dom is playing better then you are giving him credit for though, he has made some huge huge saves. He also made some bone headed plays. But to say that he needs to play better, I dont agree, He is making the big saves when he needs to, he is making the Sharks think before they shoot and that is huge when you can do that to an offensive team like the Sharks.

haha really, Sharks fans are saying play Toskala? Why? Langs goal was a little iffy but the other 2 goals were out right unstoppable. I think Nabby has played his best Hockey in the Playoffs. I dont think Toskala would do any better.

I think its great the Wings are making the Sharks doubt their Goalie. WOOHOO keep it up Boys. GO Wings

Just got out of the shower, and I couldn't resist. I wish more people on LGW could be more like you. As I said before, I never put all the blame on Dom, but I think he needs to be better.

I've siad this before, and usually everyone jumps on this as well. But when we are talking stats, I perfer the look at the Sv% when judging a goaltender. The only reason I haven't used that stat thus far in regards to Dom, is that no one really cares for it. But Dom's SV% is .919, that's tied for worst among remaining playoff goaltenders with Marty B. I really think if the Wings are going to advance, Hasek needs to improve.

As for you scale, if 10 is perfect, I think Dom is at best a 6.5. For referance, I'd give J.S. an 8.5. I mean, if you are giving Dom an 8-8.5, what would you give the goalie who has the best GAA and Sv% amongst remaining 'tenders?

For real now, I'm off to work, hah, I'm gunna be late...

[OsGOD 3]

But last night he did play well. Kudos to the floppy bastard. sly.gif

A truly heartfelt apology

At least you don't have a bunch of posts saying play Osgood. Some Sharks fans are calling for Toskala in game 5, now there's a goalie controversy. Here the debate seems to be whether Hasek is or still is a great goalie or merely an extremely good one.

Heck... Please keep Vesa off the ice... he dominates us something fierce!

[Red4wings4life 0]

As for you scale, if 10 is perfect, I think Dom is at best a 6.5. For referance, I'd give J.S. an 8.5. I mean, if you are giving Dom an 8-8.5, what would you give the goalie who has the best GAA and Sv% amongst remaining 'tenders?

For real now, I'm off to work, hah, I'm gunna be late...

GIGUERE just got his first few games in this playoffs so I cant really rate him that high yet, he has only played a few games.

TURCO is not in the playoffs anymore. Which leaves Dom as #1.

I agree SV% is a better stat but then again when the Wings limit the other team to 20 shots or less and most of those 20 shots are quiality chances .919% is great. Honestly watch the other Goalies in the Playoff still.

SV% is still a stat based on how many shots vs how many goals allowed, that is flawed in this case because Dom does not face alot of easy shots. Most of his shots are scoring chances.

Thanks for the "I wish more people on LGW could be more like you" comment. I love to talk hockey, weather everyone agress with me or not. I will always provide valid information to back up my opinion and I will never discount a well though out post that disagrees with me. That is what makes it fun to talk hockey on these boards, not everyone agrees on everything. and the More civil conversations we can have the more fun it is.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Red4wings4life

[sergei_is_still_a_wing 1]

doms new style name thingy (paralyzed snow angel of defeat) rules.

in addition, see the clutch stop on a pass from griere to clowe in the mid slot who nailed a hard ass one timer on net which doms floppy ass saved, setting up a huge come back and eventual win.

1st goal: d collapsed like a house of cards and cheechoo labeled a one timer. no chance.

2nd goal: liljas fat ass head in that HUGE bauer helmet sent the puck knuckle balling over him into the net.

should have been 1 goal in the net cus the cheechoo goal was pretty slick. the second was so effing lucky i wanted to puke (aside from the fact that goc was the first man on the ice with 6 sharks on the pond).

dom is still fine, shut up people.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

GIGUERE just got his first few games in this playoffs so I cant really rate him that high yet, he has only played a few games.

TURCO is not in the playoffs anymore. Which leaves Dom as #1.

I agree SV% is a better stat but then again when the Wings limit the other team to 20 shots or less and most of those 20 shots are quiality chances .919% is great. Honestly watch the other Goalies in the Playoff still.

SV% is still a stat based on how many shots vs how many goals allowed, that is flawed in this case because Dom does not face alot of easy shots. Most of his shots are scoring chances.

Thanks for the "I wish more people on LGW could be more like you" comment. I love to talk hockey, weather everyone agress with me or not. I will always provide valid information to back up my opinion and I will never discount a well though out post that disagrees with me. That is what makes it fun to talk hockey on these boards, not everyone agrees on everything. and the More civil conversations we can have the more fun it is.

I can see how you would not give J.S. the #1 ranking, but I just can't give it to Dom. Lundqvist, Luongo, and Miller all have very similar GAA's, but much better Sv%, I'd put these guys in front of Dom. IMO, right now the only goalie Dom is playing better than is Emery. Brodeur has faced an unusually high amount of shots for a devils playoff team, and he hasn't been playing like he can either. I guess my #1 vote would go to my Hart winner, Luongo. The guy is just sick. 369 shots faced, 23 GA 1.80 GAA .938 Sv%. This guy is simply as good as it gets right now.

I think Dom can play on that level, in fact, I'm sure of it, we've all seen it. But for some reason he just isn't.

You are welcome for the comment, it's nice to have people on this site who won't bash you for thinking differently.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

I can see how you would not give J.S. the #1 ranking, but I just can't give it to Dom. Lundqvist, Luongo, and Miller all have very similar GAA's, but much better Sv%, I'd put these guys in front of Dom. IMO, right now the only goalie Dom is playing better than is Emery. Brodeur has faced an unusually high amount of shots for a devils playoff team, and he hasn't been playing like he can either. I guess my #1 vote would go to my Hart winner, Luongo. The guy is just sick. 369 shots faced, 23 GA 1.80 GAA .938 Sv%. This guy is simply as good as it gets right now.

I think Dom can play on that level, in fact, I'm sure of it, we've all seen it. But for some reason he just isn't.

You are welcome for the comment, it's nice to have people on this site who won't bash you for thinking differently.

I think I pretty much agree with you on all points there. Hasek IS good, but not the best. BUT he is better than Legace (even though I like Legace better- go figure).

Edited May 3, 2007 by Wings_Fan_In_Exile

[uncle ovipositor 6]

I agree SV% is a better stat but then again when the Wings limit the other team to 20 shots or less and most of those 20 shots are quiality chances .919% is great. Honestly watch the other Goalies in the Playoff still.

SV% is still a stat based on how many shots vs how many goals allowed, that is flawed in this case because Dom does not face alot of easy shots. Most of his shots are scoring chances.

I'm not buying this logic. I think the Wings take a lot of non-shots on goal, but I don't think most teams do more of that than Detroit. I certainly don't think the only shots Hasek faces are all golden, no more than anybody else. Luongo's probably the only keeper left who's numbers are padded because he's standing behind a mediocre defense and thus faces more general shots, but he's an anomally.

A large percentage of shots on goal are sent off in the hopes of getting a rebound for someone to clean up in front. Hasek doesn't face any more or less of those than anyone else.

That's probably a more interesting and telling statistic, actually: rebounds off of shots. At least in this series Hasek's been great on that front. The snow angel's pretty much an all in move, but he knows when to do it and it's been effective.

[Guest Crymson]

Here's the be-all, end-all of this thread: Hasek is playing well. The goals he let in last night are now irrelevant, because we won; the goals he let in on Monday were no flukes either. He has let in ONE bad goal in this series, and we all know which one that was. Aside from this, the pucks that have gotten past him were the result of defensive muckups. Placing any blame on Hasek for our game 3 loss, for example, when faced with the disgraceful play of our team in the last 30 minutes of the game, is silly. And if we win the games, it doesn't matter anyway. End of story.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Crymson

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I'm not buying this logic. I think the Wings take a lot of non-shots on goal, but I don't think most teams do more of that than Detroit. I certainly don't think the only shots Hasek faces are all golden, no more than anybody else. Luongo's probably the only keeper left who's numbers are padded because he's standing behind a mediocre defense and thus faces more general shots, but he's an anomally.

A large percentage of shots on goal are sent off in the hopes of getting a rebound for someone to clean up in front. Hasek doesn't face any more or less of those than anyone else.

That's probably a more interesting and telling statistic, actually: rebounds off of shots. At least in this series Hasek's been great on that front. The snow angel's pretty much an all in move, but he knows when to do it and it's been effective.

I'm not certian to the exact formula that is used to figure out Sv%, but I know it's more than just GA divided by SA. If I am correct, I believe minutes played comes into play there as well.

Hasek has been great at controlling his rebounds. That's something he has always been good at.

I think your logic with Luongo is a bit backwards. The fact that Luongo has a mediocre d corps in front of him should actually hurt his Sv%, not pad it. He would face more quality shots. A goalie who has a stellar d corps in front of him, such as Hasek in '02, would benifit from padding because more shots would come from the perimeter, and not be as dangerous.