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Wings_Fan_In_Exile

Paralyzed Snow Angel of Defeat

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Even though I was whiney-it happens and I know it's annoying- it wasn't a "I hate Hasek cuz he sucks" thread.

He drives me crazy, but obviously whining about it on here doesnt' do anybody good. So my bad.

But some of you guys sound like he has been the saviour of this team and they are lost without him. He has been pretty solid overall and made some big saves, but he has also had a pretty good defense in front of him limiting shots and quality scoring chances. He was 17-19 in games 1 & 2 and 25-27 last night.

19 shots on goal isn't the busiest night for a goalie. His Save Percentage in this series is .908 Solid yes, but I wouldn't say he's carrying the team like some of you are suggesting.

Anyway, here's to him playing well in Game 4 along with the rest of the TEAM and a nice big W in the Shark Tank.

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After reading most of these posts, I'm not sure what series you people have been watching, but it hasn't been the Detroit-San Jose series. Hasek has yet to outplay Nabby. In Games 1 and 2 San Jose put a total of 12 shots on goal in the final two periods. Hasek hasn't played as well as he can, or as well as we need him to.

In the playoffs, just like Mick said last night, you only go as far as your goaltender takes you. We don't have the team we had in 02, when Dom could have a couple of bad game, and we could still get the win. We need Dom to pick it up. Yes, we need to score more. Yes we need to be better at just about every aspect of the game. But it all STARTS in net, that's why if we lose this seies, the blame starts with Dom, and if we win this series, the praise starts with Dom.

I still don't know what else anyone could ask of Hasek. And I will have to disagree with your last sentence. If the Wings win, Dom will probably be the last to receive any credit. There are folks in this forum, to this day, who believe Hasek had little to do with the 2002 Cup win. :unsure: But, you are right, that it's easy to blame the goalie and people will do so, regardless of facts. I don't know that Dom can "pick it up" anymore than he has already. I think he's doing the best he can with limited offense, D who leave rebounds on the doorstep, killer turnovers, penalties taken by Wings at horrible times, and (at least last night) a team which quit playing after 40 minutes.

It's more subtle and situational than "Dom just need to step it up."

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/features....html?post=7285

^^ Here is an article I found interesting, by Bob Duff. It's about Cujo vs. Dom, but addresses the issue of accountability, trust and will to win, in relation to goaltending.

"Hasek was brutal in the opening minutes of Detroit’s 3-2 playoff victory Saturday over San Jose - allowing a 40-footer to skid under his leg and then turning over the puck for a tap in moments later - and was the first to admit it. “I tried to help my team (by playing the puck) and I made a mistake,†Hasek said. “I was very disappointed in myself.†From that point on, Hasek closed the door and didn’t allow the killer third goal that would have finished the Wings off . “We should have had three or four more, but they have a world-class goalie who made the saves and kept them alive,†San Jose coach Ron Wilson of Windsor said of Hasek."

Anyway, Dom will do his best. If it's not good enough to suit everyone, then so be it!

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bottom line, hasek = scapegoat for fans who just want somebody to blame.

the team played well for the most part, just missed some chances.

TINK!

Anyone else sick of that sound? How many rattled off the pipes yesterday anyway? This is a good series people.

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TINK!

Anyone else sick of that sound? How many rattled off the pipes yesterday anyway? This is a good series people.

No kidding! Can't people just enjoy a great hard fought series, even if it means you're going to lose some games?

This is not the underacheiving Red wings team getting swept in the first round. Let go of the trauma from the past...

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He's got one of the highest save percentages in the NHL

Actually he's 12th in the playoffs (only Emery has a lower save percentage of goalies still in the show) and he was 13th in the regular season. His stats are not stellar by any stretch. His GAA is quite good and that's due to the combination of his skill and the skill of the dmen in front of him and the commitment to team defense under Babcock.

Hasek was in ok position on the first goal until he decided to move from his knees to his stomach before the shot was even taken. The first goal is plain and simple, his fault due to bad positioning. The second goal is less clear. There is no doubt that CheeChoo took advantage of Hasek's style. He had him down already, faked and out waited him. That he was given that amount of time doesn't say much about the dmen on the ice at the time.

Edited by calfan

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I'm sorry but I don't think Hasek is being outplayed in this series at all. In fact, I think he's played much better than Nabakov.

Kipper was out of his mind in the first round but Hasek was very, very solid. He saved at least 2 games for us.

I think Hasek and Nabby play very differently. I enjoy watching Hasek play, but Nabby's got great positioning most of the time and doesn't need to be dramatic. I think it's telling that there's only one goal due to goalie error in this game and it goes to Hasek.

Which one is better? I don't know. They're goalies - they do weird things for weird reasons. Hasek is a shock to any offensive player who doesn't know what they're up against and extremely effective at shutting down tight play in the crease. Not much garbage goes in against him, which should make the playoffs his domain. Nabby does let garbage in, and although he kicks out some big rebounds I'd say his biggest worry is when he gets spooked by a broken play. I don't know how to compare them.

Kipper? Well, if you play for a lousy team you're going to have to make a lot of dramatic saves or none at all. Rising to that call is the mark of a great goalie (and fun to watch!), but it doesn't win tournaments.

I found this pretty interesting:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f...L91.DTL&o=1

Maybe this could be called local paper bias, but all of the photos of Hasek in this gallery have him wildly out of position. And yet he still wins games. I think that's a thing of beauty, and shows there's a lot going on in his game.

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Sorry guys -- not going to win many hockey games scoring 1 goal. 4 goals so far in 3 games -- and had the sharks not had a melt down in game 2 this series would nearly be over....as it is -- were on the brink of nearly.

The sharks are big and fast -- and have very good goal tending....

9 periods of hockey have been played -- the wings have won 2 -- maybe three of those....right now they are not the better team....

There are bad calls on both sides -- but that doesn't make it right! I did not see the end of the game...I did see a hook called on Lilja in the first that was nothing but pathetic -- absolutely pathetic...

I am tiring of the NHL...unfortunately....

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We need Dom to pick it up. Yes, we need to score more. Yes we need to be better at just about every aspect of the game. But it all STARTS in net, that's why if we lose this seies, the blame starts with Dom, and if we win this series, the praise starts with Dom.

If the team can't win with a goalie with the 3rd best GAA in the playoffs (1.71GAA, only 0.01 behind Luongo who is 2nd) they aren't going to win no matter what. That is a better GAA than anyone posted in the regular season, including Hasek himself (2.05GAA, 2nd only to Backstrom who played only 41 games). Though his save percentage may be the lowest out of the playoff goalies remaining (.918), it is still better than it was in the regular season (.913) and only .001 behind Martin Brodeur. Hasek is providing plenty enough goaltending for the Wings to win. If the rest of the team isn't showing up, there's really nothing he can do about that.

Edited by Grind Line 33

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I love panic mode...

Heh, me too. After every loss, I start to imagine what kind of panic topics there will be. Usually I figure there will be at least one Hasek bashing topic, one Lang bashing topic, one Samulesson bashing topic, one topic saying how the Wings are finished and in no way in hell will they come back, one topic saying what a bad coach Babcock is, and about 5 different topics discussing who/and or what should return to the Wings next year. So far, I've been right on almost every one! :P

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I still don't know what else anyone could ask of Hasek. And I will have to disagree with your last sentence. If the Wings win, Dom will probably be the last to receive any credit. There are folks in this forum, to this day, who believe Hasek had little to do with the 2002 Cup win. :unsure: But, you are right, that it's easy to blame the goalie and people will do so, regardless of facts. I don't know that Dom can "pick it up" anymore than he has already. I think he's doing the best he can with limited offense, D who leave rebounds on the doorstep, killer turnovers, penalties taken by Wings at horrible times, and (at least last night) a team which quit playing after 40 minutes.

It's more subtle and situational than "Dom just need to step it up."

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/features....html?post=7285

^^ Here is an article I found interesting, by Bob Duff. It's about Cujo vs. Dom, but addresses the issue of accountability, trust and will to win, in relation to goaltending.

"Hasek was brutal in the opening minutes of Detroit’s 3-2 playoff victory Saturday over San Jose - allowing a 40-footer to skid under his leg and then turning over the puck for a tap in moments later - and was the first to admit it. “I tried to help my team (by playing the puck) and I made a mistake,†Hasek said. “I was very disappointed in myself.†From that point on, Hasek closed the door and didn’t allow the killer third goal that would have finished the Wings off . “We should have had three or four more, but they have a world-class goalie who made the saves and kept them alive,†San Jose coach Ron Wilson of Windsor said of Hasek."

Anyway, Dom will do his best. If it's not good enough to suit everyone, then so be it!

First of all, I have read in a few other posts that Haseks GAA is as good as 3rd and as poor as 13th in these playoffs. According to tsn, here are the top 5 starting goalies:

Giguere 1.30

Turco 1.30

Luongo 1.70

Hasek 1.71

Here is what I can, and do ask of Hasek:

1. Play a solid 60 minute game

2. Don't try to handle the puck

3. Play better in the playoffs and the regular season

4. Steal us at least one game per series

5. Give us a chance to win every night

6. Keep your head out of your ass (i.e. no diving!!)

I think so far in this series, Hasek has been decent. He hasn't hurt us, expcept on the give away Thornton goal. On the flip side, he hasn't exactly played overly well. Like I said before, in each of the last 2 periods of games 1 & 2, San Jose managed 6 shots on goal, and none were good scoring chances.

I know the blame doesn't all fall on Hasek, but it all starts in goal. No matter how you spin it, you can't win in the playoffs without quality goaltending. Dom was stellar in the Calgary series, we haven't see that Dom in this series.

I'm not all doom and gloom here. I think the boys can pull it out. Yes, we need a full 60 effort for the entire team, but again, it starts in goal.

The bottom line is that we need Dom to shut down San Jose, and we need to light up Nabby. I am not a Hasek fan, but at the before this series began, I thought the one clear advantage either team had was Hasek over Nabby. We need better play from every position. I think injection Homer back into the lineup will help out greatly. Hopefully Lebda can get back soon too, wereally miss his speed back on the blue line.

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Actually he's 12th in the playoffs (only Emery has a lower save percentage of goalies still in the show) and he was 13th in the regular season. His stats are not stellar by any stretch. His GAA is quite good and that's due to the combination of his skill and the skill of the dmen in front of him and the commitment to team defense under Babcock.

Hasek was in ok position on the first goal until he decided to move from his knees to his stomach before the shot was even taken. The first goal is plain and simple, his fault due to bad positioning. The second goal is less clear. There is no doubt that CheeChoo took advantage of Hasek's style. He had him down already, faked and out waited him. That he was given that amount of time doesn't say much about the dmen on the ice at the time.

Yep. Actually Nabokov was significantly better in both GAA and sv% in the regular season. Not sure about the playoffs...

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Psshh, TSN. Notice those goalies above Hasek are all Canadian? Biassssssssssssssssssssssssssssss :P

Naw, I believe it. But in reality, a 1.71 is still very good. If you want bad, look at Kari Lehtonens playoff numbers, or someone else who was spanked around.

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I think any time GAA is used to judge a goalie, so should SP. While Hasek's GAA is at the top of the remaining goalies, his SP is not. Again, I am not saying he sucks or is to blame for a single loss. Just food for thought.

Giguere .955

Luongo .941

Miller .931

Lundqvist .927

Nabokov .922

Broduer .919

Hasek .918

Emery .914

(data from TSN)

And just to point out, even though he annoys me, I'd rather have a goalie with a save percentage of .918 than some hack in the 80's percentile. But man does he make me nervous.

Edited by Wings_Fan_In_Exile

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Psshh, TSN. Notice those goalies above Hasek are all Canadian? Biassssssssssssssssssssssssssssss :P

Naw, I believe it. But in reality, a 1.71 is still very good. If you want bad, look at Kari Lehtonens playoff numbers, or someone else who was spanked around.

I'm not saying it's bad, just not as good as everyone thinks it is.

BTW, remember we have played 8 games. Any NHL goaltender can put up huge numbers in eight games. But the only stat that I really care about is wins, we need 11 more of them.

I think any time GAA is used to judge a goalie, so should SP. While Hasek's GAA is at the top of the remaining goalies, his SP is not. Again, I am not saying he sucks or is to blame for a single loss. Just food for thought.

Giguere .955

Luongo .941

Miller .931

Lundqvist .927

Nabokov .922

Broduer .919

Hasek .918

Emery .914

(data from TSN)

And just to point out, even though he annoys me, I'd rather have a goalie with a save percentage of .918 than some hack in the 80's percentile. But man does he make me nervous.

You know, every time I try to tell people that the Sv% is a crutial stat, I get reemed for it. So here is me saying I AGREE, Sv% IMO is a much more telling stat than GAA.

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6 Vezinas

2 Harts

1 Gold Medal

1 Stanley Cup

So to answer your question, YES it could be less effective.

Plus, he was the biggest reason we were even in that game late. And if one of those Schneider blasts that hit the post goes in, we probably win that game.

Well put my friend. Before we start jumpin on Hasek's ass, we need to question why all but 20 seconds of the third period were played in our end

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he's got a 1.71 GAA?

I have this all figured out then people. Score 2 goals.

haha indeed. Going straight by stats, that means allow no more than 20 shots then too. :P

I'm holding out hope that Game 4 is where the Wings get their offense going.

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1. SV% tells more about a goalie than GAA does. Trust me, as a goalie.

2. I've noticed that when Hasek would do the, hysterically named, "Paralyzed Snow Angel of Defeat", he's missing a key part to it.

(Still my favorite commerical, by the way)

The save right in the middle of the commercial as they mention slinky is an example of what he didn't complete. He only laid the glove out. If he would of completed the windmill of the pads, he might of had a better chance of making a save than leaving 3/4 of the net open. :(

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Guest Crymson

I'm glad you're in exile, because otherwise I'd be throwing you in that direction for making such an inane, scapegoating comment. Where were your criticism when Hasek won game after game in the regular season, in game 2, and in the Calgary series?

Honestly, give me a break. Could you be any more transparent?

I'm only glad that more of the regulars are starting to realize this sort of bulls*** for what it is.

But I agree that scoring one goal isn't going to cut it. He's not the sole reason they lost, as I already said. But his style of play does drive me insane!

Be glad you're not a Sabres fan, elsewise you would have gone insane watching him carry the Sabres on his back to the playoffs every season.

He's a solid goalie, so please just cut it out.

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Crazy, Hasek has played great hockey all playoffs, He has not faced alot of shots but he has faced alot of good scoring chances. Hasek is One of the Top Goalies in the League BECAUSE of his crazy style (dont know if you can call it a style). Hasek has keep the Wings in every game this playoff season, EVERY GAME. He is giving the Wings the chance to WIN every hockey game, It is the guys in front of Hasek that are not producing. Hasek is doing everything that is asked of him.

If you think Hasek is the reason Detroit has lost any game in the post season then you sir/mama are out of your ever loving mind and need to find a new sport to watch cause you dont understand hockey.

Good Day.... I SAID Good Day

Edited by Red4wings4life

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