Hasek vs. Nabby

[krudmonk v2.0 0]

In Hasek's defense, I don't think he really saw the puck well on Clowe's goal. He went down to protect and still nearly had the width of the goal covered. On Cheechoo's goal, Hasek has to know that he's a shooter. I was actually surprised Cheechoo deked him. Going down early made some sense in the moment, but looked awful in hindsight.

[Grypho 195]

In Hasek's defense, I don't think he really saw the puck well on Clowe's goal. He went down to protect and still nearly had the width of the goal covered. On Cheechoo's goal, Hasek has to know that he's a shooter. I was actually surprised Cheechoo deked him. Going down early made some sense in the moment, but looked awful in hindsight.

OK I have to beat this dead horse one last time.

When Hasek went down, three Wings were converging fast on Cheechoo's back, but there is no way, based on where they were at the time Hasek went down, and how Cheechoo's stick was positioned in front of the puck, that they could have even known that: a) Cheechoo still had the puck, or that b) Hasek wasn't already on the puck. They really didn't know what happened at that point, or where the puck was at the time, so there's no way that they could flatten Cheechoo in front of the net (which would have had to be a cross-check from behind from any of those players) without risking a penalty. Like you said, everything looked awful (from a Wings POV) in hindsight, but everything made sense in the moment. No errors on anyone's apart (IMO only, of course). I don't think the converging Wings or Hasek made any mistakes. It was just a good fake by Cheechoo that resulted in a decent goal.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

First of all, I don't think Hasek can really be blamed on either of the Sharks goals. Especially Choochoo trains. There were 3 Wings who didn't do their jobs, Cheech should never have been in that spot.

All that aside, I've said this in other threads, but repitition is the key right? At the before this series started, I thought there was one clear cut advantage between these two teams, and that was goaltending. I though Hasek, even not at his best, was better than Nabby. So far, Nabby is proving me wrong. He has outplayed Hasek in every game, including the Detroit victory. And before you say no, remember that San Jose managed just 6 shots on goal in each of the first two games.

[murf 0]

While better than most NHL goalies, Nabby does give up a few too many rebounds but is also pretty good at kicking them to the side boards, away from opposing players. When he does give up a bad rebound it us usually up the slot. Sharks defense is pretty good at collapsing to the front of the net and clearing away the bad rebounds before the other team can convert them into scoring chances.

It's very difficult for a television viewer to see, but if you were somehow able to see the entire playing surface, you'd notice that NHL goalies often direct rebounds to their retreating defensemen after a shot is taken from the perimeter on the rush. This appears to be a big juicy rebound to the TV viewer, but is really a (somewhat) intentional pass from the goaltender to a back-checking teammate that the goalie can see peripherally, but is off of the screen of the TV viewer.

When what appears to the TV viewer as a rebound ends up on the tape of a goalie's teammate, it's easy to assume that the attacking team did not position themselves well for the apparent "rebound."

edit: Yes, NHL goalies are that good, see the ice that well, and can accordingly prepare for deflections on shots from the perimeter.

Edited May 2, 2007 by murf

[Red4wings4life 0]

OK I have to beat this dead horse one last time.

When Hasek went down, three Wings were converging fast on Cheechoo's back, but there is no way, based on where they were at the time Hasek went down, and how Cheechoo's stick was positioned in front of the puck, that they could have even known that: a) Cheechoo still had the puck, or that b) Hasek wasn't already on the puck. They really didn't know what happened at that point, or where the puck was at the time, so there's no way that they could flatten Cheechoo in front of the net (which would have had to be a cross-check from behind from any of those players) without risking a penalty. Like you said, everything looked awful (from a Wings POV) in hindsight, but everything made sense in the moment. No errors on anyone's apart (IMO only, of course). I don't think the converging Wings or Hasek made any mistakes. It was just a good fake by Cheechoo that resulted in a decent goal.

Your wrong, it is always the best idea to clear the bodies out of the front of your net, You dont have cross check to do this. Weather he had the puck or not you still clear the bodies out. PERIOD. The Wings defense let down on this play. You will not get called for knocking people over in front of the net in the NHL during a scrum as long as you dont cross check. The Red Wings Defense made the mistake of not taking the body.

You need to understand that it was not a bad play on Haseks part but a bad play on the D. There is no excuse for allowing a player as skilled as Cheechoo to have that much time in front of the Net, NONE, as soon as he touched the puck their should have been a body on him, he should have been watching the rest of the play unfold from his rear end.

Watch how other teams handle our Forwards in front of their net, they dump bodies, we always have at least one Wing on the Ground during Scrums.

[Grypho 195]

Your wrong, it is always the best idea to clear the bodies out of the front of your net, You dont have cross check to do this. Weather he had the puck or not you still clear the bodies out. PERIOD.

I don't think we're in disagreement here, not in principle anyway. But in this particular case, if you look at a replay, you can see that the three Wings who reached Cheechoo all did so from behind, and just a moment before he scored. Now if you're arguing that he should never been positioned there in the first place, and that he should have been covered by at least one Wing long before that moment, so that he could be knocked on his ass right when he touched the puck, then I have to concede that point (good point, in fact).

[Red4wings4life 0]

I don't think we're in disagreement here, not in principle anyway. But in this particular case, if you look at a replay, you can see that the three Wings who reached Cheechoo all did so from behind, and just a moment before he scored. Now if you're arguing that he should never been positioned there in the first place, and that he should have been covered by at least one Wing long before that moment, so that he could be knocked on his ass right when he touched the puck, then I have to concede that point (good point, in fact).

Yea, You cannot CANNOT leave someone as skilled as Cheechoo in front of your net without a body close enough to him to control him if the puck comes to him. Yes I know we were down a man but he was parked directly in front of our net, we need someone close enough to him to get a body on him when he gets the puck or to clear the front of the net after Dom makes the save.

[Pucker 0]

Actually, I think that Hasek has been the better of the netminders in this series.

Hasek has had FAR more work to do, as more of the game has been spent in the Wings end of the ice. And I feel he has had to make more difficult saves.

Both Goalies have played well, but I think that Hasek has been more important to their respective teams.

[OsGOD 3]

Hasek has had FAR more work to do, as more of the game has been spent in the Wings end of the ice. And I feel he has had to make more difficult saves.

Even though possibly more time was spent in the wings end... Nabby has faced 21 (or almost a full games worth) of more rubber than Hasek. I can't agree nor deny that Hasek has had the harder of the saves... the way he plays he makes even the easiest saves look like they were the hardest things in the world... so it is perspective or in the eye of the beholder really.

Hasek may have far more work to do just in the sheer fact that by constantly going behind the net (even in the most unopportune times) he creates himself more work than needed.

It is obvious now in this series we need Hasek to step-up, shut the door completely. Sure he has given the team a chance, but now he has to Win the game for them. You'll get my drift without actually saying anything, right?

Edited May 2, 2007 by OsGOD

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Even though possibly more time was spent in the wings end... Nabby has faced 21 (or almost a full games worth) of more rubber than Hasek. I can't agree nor deny that Hasek has had the harder of the saves... the way he plays he makes even the easiest saves look like they were the hardest things in the world... so it is perspective or in the eye of the beholder really.

Hasek may have far more work to do just in the sheer fact that by constantly going behind the net (even in the most unopportune times) he creates himself more work than needed.

It is obvious now in this series we need Hasek to step-up, shut the door completely. Sure he has given the team a chance, but now he has to Win the game for them. You'll get my drift without actually saying anything, right?

Well said sir. In my opinion you nailed it.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Even though possibly more time was spent in the wings end... Nabby has faced 21 (or almost a full games worth) of more rubber than Hasek. I can't agree nor deny that Hasek has had the harder of the saves... the way he plays he makes even the easiest saves look like they were the hardest things in the world... so it is perspective or in the eye of the beholder really.

Hasek may have far more work to do just in the sheer fact that by constantly going behind the net (even in the most unopportune times) he creates himself more work than needed.

It is obvious now in this series we need Hasek to step-up, shut the door completely. Sure he has given the team a chance, but now he has to Win the game for them. You'll get my drift without actually saying anything, right?

It seems we who think this way about Haseks play are in the minority.

[puckloo39 5,686]

It seems we who think this way about Haseks play are in the minority.

now you're catching on!

[OsGOD 3]

It seems we who think this way about Haseks play are in the minority.

Nah... we are just willing to admit it in front of others... remember, the rest of flock is always silently waiting in the shaddows for the first chance to follow their own little bo peep (gender unspecific dispite what the fairy tales tell you).