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BringHomeTheCup!

Off season....

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Split time with Howard and Ozzie. Start them 60/40 (Ozzie 60) and see how Howard adjusts. Then adjust the playing time to favor him if he produces. Its time to throw him in, no more waiting.

Will Liv even be back in GR next season? I thought he was signed for 1 year...it doesn't seem like he's adjusted to North American play as well as we hoped.

I like Backstrom, but I don't see the need for him.

Also...someone mentioned Lundqvist? wtf? How would we do that??? :lol:

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you guys forget theres a thing called the salary cap and the wings just gave datsyuk a big raise and have other players to resign , we wont be able to get a big name goalie .........if hasek is gone i say its time to bring in howard and see what he's got

Where are you getting this from? Just because Datsyuk got a raise doesnt mean we are even close to the cap. The Wings will likely let go of Markov, Schneider, Lang, and Calder at the least, Grigorenko is only coming over if he comes to straight to the NHL and is a regular, and we have 1, if not 2, young defenseman ready to come up.

Datsyuk(6.7)

Zetterberg(2.65)

Homer(2.25)

Draper (2.128)

Maltby(.88)

Kopecky(.45)

Filppula(.7)

Cleary(.663)

Franzen(.942)

Sammy(1.2)

Lidstrom(7.6)

Kronwall(3)

Lilja(1)

Lebda(.65)

Quincey(.535)

Osgood(.85)

=33.098/~47M

Chelios - 800k max

Hudler - likely less than 1M

Grigorenko - 800k max

Hasek - similar to last years

Assuming these guys are re-signed, that leaves Detroit with 2 goalies, 6 Dmen, and 12 forwards at 37M. Thats 10M under the cap for a Dmen and a forward. Detroit can probably use 7M of that for a 2nd liner and a top 4 Dman. Therefore, if Detroit wants to sign an expensive goaltender - namely Giguere - theyll bring up Kindl and sign a cheaper forward. Holland has options out there. Detroit wont have studs in net AND on the end AND up front, but he can have 2 of those 3 positions in the elite category.

Edited by YoungGuns1340

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Split time with Howard and Ozzie. Start them 60/40 (Ozzie 60) and see how Howard adjusts. Then adjust the playing time to favor him if he produces. Its time to throw him in, no more waiting.

Will Liv even be back in GR next season? I thought he was signed for 1 year...it doesn't seem like he's adjusted to North American play as well as we hoped.

I like Backstrom, but I don't see the need for him.

Also...someone mentioned Lundqvist? wtf? How would we do that??? :lol:

I can't get into details, but it involves chloroform. :ph34r:

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Look at the stats my friend. Befour put up similar stats on a MUCH worse team. Belfour is a solid goltender, more consistant than Hasek has proven to be, and he can handle the puck without giving the fans a heart attack.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't call Belfour's 2.77 GAA, .902 save%, 27 wins and 1 shutout comparable to Hasek's 2.05 GAA, .913 save%, 38 wins and 8 shutouts. Granted Belfour was indeed on a worse team, but his stats were neither comparable nor "more consistent" (whatever it is you mean by that).

After his latest run in with the law, I can't say Eddie is somebody I want in our lockerroom next season either.

And should the ability to play the puck really be one of the key deciding factors in whether we sign a goalie or not? If he stops pucks, who really cares?

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It will be Hasek, Liv, or Howard.

If Hasek does not retire, he'll return.

Giguere is the only UFA who would be a realistic option as starter--none of the other UFA tenders are a significant upgrade over Osgood, if an upgrade at all.

As has been detailed, Giguere will cost way too much.

So the next step is to look at UFAs for backup goalies.

The only UFA goaltender who has a skill level to justify interest and will make less than Osgood, who under this scenario is Jamie McLennan, as I have said before.

After McLennan's stunt in the playoffs, the chances Holland would be interested dropped to zero percent.

Which means that, assuming Hasek retires, the Wings simply have to decide between Howard and Liv. If Howard is deemed 'ready' then he'll get it. If Howard needs another year in Grand Rapids, they'll toss in Liv.

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Call me crazy, but I wouldn't call Belfour's 2.77 GAA, .902 save%, 27 wins and 1 shutout comparable to Hasek's 2.05 GAA, .913 save%, 38 wins and 8 shutouts. Granted Belfour was indeed on a worse team, but his stats were neither comparable nor "more consistent" (whatever it is you mean by that).

After his latest run in with the law, I can't say Eddie is somebody I want in our lockerroom next season either.

And should the ability to play the puck really be one of the key deciding factors in whether we sign a goalie or not? If he stops pucks, who really cares?

I meant more consistant in general. You never know what Dom you are going to get. The only who plays stellar, or the one who is seemingly unable to think. With Belfour you know what you get. Yes he will have a bad game here and there, but everyone does. And no, that isn't an excuse for Dom, I'll give him that say 3 or 4 times a season, but Dom is much more inconsistant than that.

As far as the stats go, I believe if you put Belfour on the Wings his stats would be much better. He had no help in Florida. To put up those stats on that team is pretty solid. I always say this, GAA is an overrated stat, Sv% is a more telling stat about the goalie, and the two Sv%'s are pretty close. As for SO, Belfour had no help. For a goalie to get a shutout, he needs help. Dom had a TON of help.

As for the run in with the law, I seem to remember Hasek beating the crap out of some guy in a roller hockey tournament the summer before he came back to the Wings.

Edited by BringHomeTheCup!

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I meant more consistant in general. You never know what Dom you are going to get. The only who plays stellar, or the one who is seemingly unable to think. With Belfour you know what you get. Yes he will have a bad game here and there, but everyone does. And no, that isn't an excuse for Dom, I'll give him that say 3 or 4 times a season, but Dom is much more inconsistant than that.

As far as the stats go, I believe if you put Belfour on the Wings his stats would be much better. He had no help in Florida. To put up those stats on that team is pretty solid. I always say this, GAA is an overrated stat, Sv% is a more telling stat about the goalie, and the two Sv%'s are pretty close. As for SO, Belfour had no help. For a goalie to get a shutout, he needs help. Dom had a TON of help.

As for the run in with the law, I seem to remember Hasek beating the crap out of some guy in a roller hockey tournament the summer before he came back to the Wings.

If the Wings kept all current netminders except Hasek, and replaced Hasek wit hBelfour, this would be the depth chart:

Osgood

Howard

Liv

Belfour

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I meant more consistant in general. You never know what Dom you are going to get. The only who plays stellar, or the one who is seemingly unable to think. With Belfour you know what you get. Yes he will have a bad game here and there, but everyone does. And no, that isn't an excuse for Dom, I'll give him that say 3 or 4 times a season, but Dom is much more inconsistant than that.

As far as the stats go, I believe if you put Belfour on the Wings his stats would be much better. He had no help in Florida. To put up those stats on that team is pretty solid. I always say this, GAA is an overrated stat, Sv% is a more telling stat about the goalie, and the two Sv%'s are pretty close. As for SO, Belfour had no help. For a goalie to get a shutout, he needs help. Dom had a TON of help.

As for the run in with the law, I seem to remember Hasek beating the crap out of some guy in a roller hockey tournament the summer before he came back to the Wings.

You can talk all you want about consistency, but Hasek's made the big saves all season long. For the most part he was very consistent game to game. Maybe not period to period, but the guy had very few "poor" games throughout the season.

Bottom line, if Hasek wants to come back SIGN HIM. The other primary option is Osgood/Howard. And if Hasek gets injured, what happens?? You go with Osgood/Howard. Might as well sign Hasek if he wants to come back, especially with the way Osgood has played once he got over the injuries.

With the lack of options out there, theres no reason to spend more than 1.5M on a goaltender. Put that money towards bulking up your D and forwards.

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Where are you getting this from? Just because Datsyuk got a raise doesnt mean we are even close to the cap. The Wings will likely let go of Markov, Schneider, Lang, and Calder at the least, Grigorenko is only coming over if he comes to straight to the NHL and is a regular, and we have 1, if not 2, young defenseman ready to come up.

Datsyuk(6.7)

Zetterberg(2.65)

Homer(2.25)

Draper (2.128)

Maltby(.88)

Kopecky(.45)

Filppula(.7)

Cleary(.663)

Franzen(.942)

Sammy(1.2)

Lidstrom(7.6)

Kronwall(3)

Lilja(1)

Lebda(.65)

Quincey(.535)

Osgood(.85)

=33.098/~47M

Chelios - 800k max

Hudler - likely less than 1M

Grigorenko - 800k max

Hasek - similar to last years

Assuming these guys are re-signed, that leaves Detroit with 2 goalies, 6 Dmen, and 12 forwards at 37M. Thats 10M under the cap for a Dmen and a forward. Detroit can probably use 7M of that for a 2nd liner and a top 4 Dman. Therefore, if Detroit wants to sign an expensive goaltender - namely Giguere - theyll bring up Kindl and sign a cheaper forward. Holland has options out there. Detroit wont have studs in net AND on the end AND up front, but he can have 2 of those 3 positions in the elite category.

The talk about the cap is about $49. That leaves Detroit with $16 to spend. I think this is what additions to the roster may look like.

Cheli - 850k

Huds - 850k

Bert - 3 (if he'd take it)

Matty - 2.5 (if he'd take it)

Giggy - 6 (if he'd sign)

Assuming the 3 if's signed, that would be a total of about $13 eaten up, leaving some wiggle room for Kenny. If any of the 3 wouldn't sign for the alloted amount, outside of Giggy, a replacement could be found for a similar price. Here is what I'd do for lines.

W-W-C

Hank - Homer - Pav

Bert - Huds - Flip

Sammy - Dano - Drapes

Malts - Franzen - Kope

Nick - Jr.

Cheli - Lebda

Quincey - Lilja

Giggy - Oz

You can talk all you want about consistency, but Hasek's made the big saves all season long. For the most part he was very consistent game to game. Maybe not period to period, but the guy had very few "poor" games throughout the season.

Bottom line, if Hasek wants to come back SIGN HIM. The other primary option is Osgood/Howard. And if Hasek gets injured, what happens?? You go with Osgood/Howard. Might as well sign Hasek if he wants to come back, especially with the way Osgood has played once he got over the injuries.

With the lack of options out there, theres no reason to spend more than 1.5M on a goaltender. Put that money towards bulking up your D and forwards.

Yeah, I agree, in the real world, if Dom wants to come back, he is the best option, I said that in the original post.

If the Wings kept all current netminders except Hasek, and replaced Hasek wit hBelfour, this would be the depth chart:

Osgood

Howard

Liv

Belfour

That's funny. No way if Kenny inked Belfour would he be 4th on the depth chart. Maybe second, but if he were signed, it'd be his starting job to lose.

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As far as the stats go, I believe if you put Belfour on the Wings his stats would be much better. He had no help in Florida. To put up those stats on that team is pretty solid. I always say this, GAA is an overrated stat, Sv% is a more telling stat about the goalie, and the two Sv%'s are pretty close. As for SO, Belfour had no help. For a goalie to get a shutout, he needs help. Dom had a TON of help.

Hasek's .913 save% put him 13th in the league, Belfour's .902 save% put him 30th. Care to explain how that makes them "close"? And looking past save percentage, Hasek basically destroys Belfour in every other single goaltending statistic. You can make all the speculations you want about how much better Eddie's stats would be had he played for the Wings, but that's all it is, just speculation.

As for the run in with the law, I seem to remember Hasek beating the crap out of some guy in a roller hockey tournament the summer before he came back to the Wings.

Yeah, and Dom's been a real hell-raiser this season hasn't he?

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If Hasek retires, it should be Osgood and Liv. Liv is obviously not the goaltender of the future, other wise we would not have played musical goaltenders for the past 5 or 6 years. Let Howard develop in Grand Rpaids, and use Liv as a stop gap until next year. Just look at Ryan Miller. Osgood is a great serviceable part time starter/backup for next year, as well as when Howard arrives.

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Hasek's .913 save% put him 13th in the league, Belfour's .902 save% put him 30th. Care to explain how that makes them "close"? And looking past save percentage, Hasek basically destroys Belfour in every other single goaltending statistic. You can make all the speculations you want about how much better Eddie's stats would be had he played for the Wings, but that's all it is, just speculation.

Yeah, and Dom's been a real hell-raiser this season hasn't he?

If you won't concede that playing on a bettter Detroit team wouldn't have helped out Belfours stats considerably, then maybe you should watch the Panthers, or just look at their stats. There were only 8 teams who allowed more goals than the Panthers, and 2 who allowed fewer than the Wings. Any goalie is going to have better stats on the Wings than Panters. Belfour was acutally 24th amongst starting goaltenders. Just to give you an idea, he tied with Khabibulin, and was better then Raycroft, Ward, and was within a stones throw of Biron (.903), and Toskala (.908). You may want to check your sources on stats there sparky.

I never said the Wings should sign him, go back and read what I wrote, I'm too lazy to quote myself.

Thanks for making my point for me. We haven't had any problems with Hasek, so why should we expect them with Belfour? We have enough veteran leadership that I don't think it's an issue.

Edited by BringHomeTheCup!

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Something I don't understand is the general 'hell no' responce to Belfour. I get that he is disliked as much as any player not named Claude Lemieux, and with good reason. However, he could be a good fit, a gap stop. We accepted Krupp, Cheli, and Bert, so if Belfour was signed, why not him?

Just me but I believe it's because he chopped at Martin Lapointe's privates in the 98 privates. Chelios was a hated rival when he played for the Blackhawks but he would never stoop to Belfour's level. Belfour is just a drunk, and him in downtown detroit is scary :scared:. I think he took Tyler Arnesson to the bar and they both got arrrested. Arnasson was a promising player and ever sicne that he's been struggiling.

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Just me but I believe it's because he chopped at Martin Lapointe's privates in the 98 privates. Chelios was a hated rival when he played for the Blackhawks but he would never stoop to Belfour's level. Belfour is just a drunk, and him in downtown detroit is scary :scared:. I think he took Tyler Arnesson to the bar and they both got arrrested. Arnasson was a promising player and ever sicne that he's been struggiling.

Hah, yeah, he could be a problem, but this area is nothing new to him. He has a summer home about 10 minutes from where I live. Downtown Detroit really ins't a big party scene.

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Where are you getting this from? Just because Datsyuk got a raise doesnt mean we are even close to the cap. The Wings will likely let go of Markov, Schneider, Lang, and Calder at the least, Grigorenko is only coming over if he comes to straight to the NHL and is a regular, and we have 1, if not 2, young defenseman ready to come up.

Datsyuk(6.7)

Zetterberg(2.65)

Homer(2.25)

Draper (2.128)

Maltby(.88)

Kopecky(.45)

Filppula(.7)

Cleary(.663)

Franzen(.942)

Sammy(1.2)

Lidstrom(7.6)

Kronwall(3)

Lilja(1)

Lebda(.65)

Quincey(.535)

Osgood(.85)

=33.098/~47M

Chelios - 800k max

Hudler - likely less than 1M

Grigorenko - 800k max

Hasek - similar to last years

Assuming these guys are re-signed, that leaves Detroit with 2 goalies, 6 Dmen, and 12 forwards at 37M. Thats 10M under the cap for a Dmen and a forward. Detroit can probably use 7M of that for a 2nd liner and a top 4 Dman. Therefore, if Detroit wants to sign an expensive goaltender - namely Giguere - theyll bring up Kindl and sign a cheaper forward. Holland has options out there. Detroit wont have studs in net AND on the end AND up front, but he can have 2 of those 3 positions in the elite category.

you have to think longterm if giggy signs with anyone its most likely a 4-5 yr deal .......zetterbergs pay will increase by 4+ ........cleary and franzen will most likely get a 1+ million per year increase ......hudler and filppula as well in the next few yrs will be at least close to 2 per ........lidstrom if he's still performing at 39 will be gettin at least 5 mill .........it adds up dude , lebda in 3 yrs will get a nice increase as well by that time , we cant depend on the cap going up every year

anyways all this talk of signing giggy to a longterm deal is useless, we have howard i cant believe management will throw the towel in just cause giggy( who im sorry in my opinion is really overrated) is available ........in 08 kiprusoff will be out there why rush and get giggy

Edited by zetterbergfuturemvp

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It'll probably still be Dom and Ozzie. If Dom decides to retire, then I'd like to see Oz as starter.

I agree. Like *I* would disagree on this...riiiiight.

It would be like Ozzie/Vernie all over again :P

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

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you have to think longterm if giggy signs with anyone its most likely a 4-5 yr deal .......zetterbergs pay will increase by 4+ ........cleary and franzen will most likely get a 1+ million per year increase ......hudler and filppula as well in the next few yrs will be at least close to 2 per ........lidstrom if he's still performing at 39 will be gettin at least 5 mill .........it adds up dude , lebda in 3 yrs will get a nice increase as well by that time , we cant depend on the cap going up every year

anyways all this talk of signing giggy to a longterm deal is useless, we have howard i cant believe management will throw the towel in just cause giggy( who im sorry in my opinion is really overrated) is available ........in 08 kiprusoff will be out there why rush and get giggy

I think we can count on the cap going up for at least the next 5 years. With markets like Detroit, LA, NY, Toronto, ect. the cap should go up no problem. It was designed to go up, and the original cap set so low becuse the NHL brass wasn't sure how well the game would do out of the gate after the lock out.

I do agree, I think Giggy is over rated. He is a great goalie, but not on Marty, Kipper or Luongo's level. He is right on the bubble, and I would love to have him though.

Yes some guys will get raises over the next few years, but guys will take cuts as well. Malts just took about a 500k cut. More important is that I dont think Hudler and Flip will make much more than $1 a year. Hudler is make just over 500k and Flip is making just over 700k. I think you will see them both with 3 year deal that give them about a 400-600k raise.

And what makes you think Kipper would be any cheaper than Giggy, or that he would be available? I don't think Calgary will let him walk, and honestly, I don't see the Ducks letting Giggy walk either. They do have Bryzgalov signed through next season, and I think if they were to re-sign Giggy, they could trade Bryzgalov, as he is only making $1.3 next season. That is pretty affordable, and there will be plenty of teams lining up to get a crack at him.

BTW, nice post. I love it when people actually can have a discussion on these threads, and it doesn't turn into a pissing contest! :clap:

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HAHA!! That is freaking great! :lol:

Have you decided who you'd have on your 7th slot in the sig?

Isn't it awesome.!!

I didn't make it...someone on the Canucks board made it for me!!! <3

I will now use it all the time!

And YES, I totally know who will be in the next slot on the sig :)

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I think we can count on the cap going up for at least the next 5 years. With markets like Detroit, LA, NY, Toronto, ect. the cap should go up no problem. It was designed to go up, and the original cap set so low becuse the NHL brass wasn't sure how well the game would do out of the gate after the lock out.

I do agree, I think Giggy is over rated. He is a great goalie, but not on Marty, Kipper or Luongo's level. He is right on the bubble, and I would love to have him though.

Yes some guys will get raises over the next few years, but guys will take cuts as well. Malts just took about a 500k cut. More important is that I dont think Hudler and Flip will make much more than $1 a year. Hudler is make just over 500k and Flip is making just over 700k. I think you will see them both with 3 year deal that give them about a 400-600k raise.

And what makes you think Kipper would be any cheaper than Giggy, or that he would be available? I don't think Calgary will let him walk, and honestly, I don't see the Ducks letting Giggy walk either. They do have Bryzgalov signed through next season, and I think if they were to re-sign Giggy, they could trade Bryzgalov, as he is only making $1.3 next season. That is pretty affordable, and there will be plenty of teams lining up to get a crack at him.

BTW, nice post. I love it when people actually can have a discussion on these threads, and it doesn't turn into a pissing contest! :clap:

actually i dont think kiprusoff will be available anyways but i just threw him out there as a way of saying that theres better options then giggy so theres no need to rush into things .......besides im pretty sure the wings arent gonna sign a star goalie longterm without knowing first what howard has to offer , i hope hes amazing but im banking on daniel larsson .....after all we are a team made up of mostly swedes so we might as well have a swedish goalie right ? lol :P

anyways what you said about hudler and filppula , i doubt in the next 4-5 yrs there pay will only increase by 500 k .....im sure the wings will try and sign them to bigger deals(if there smart) like they did with zetterberg/lebda so in a few yrs into the deal we'd get a good deal out of it , hudler had 15 goals with barely any ice time and good linemates..... if he had a legitimate shot he can be a 25-30 goal scorer , if the wings were smart theyd offer him a 2 million per year deal at 4 yrs , same as filppulla , cleary and franzen will go up , i just wouldnt want to have 4 guys average 6 to 7 million per year on the team , need more cash to spread out

Edited by zetterbergfuturemvp

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actually i dont think kiprusoff will be available anyways but i just threw him out there as a way of saying that theres better options then giggy so theres no need to rush into things .......besides im pretty sure the wings arent gonna sign a star goalie longterm without knowing first what howard has to offer , i hope hes amazing but im banking on daniel larsson .....after all we are a team made up of mostly swedes so we might as well have a swedish goalie right ? lol :P

anyways what you said about hudler and filppula , i doubt in the next 4-5 yrs there pay will only increase by 500 k .....im sure the wings will try and sign them to bigger deals(if there smart) like they did with zetterberg/lebda so in a few yrs into the deal we'd get a good deal out of it , hudler had 15 goals with barely any ice time and good linemates..... if he had a legitimate shot he can be a 25-30 goal scorer , if the wings were smart theyd offer him a 2 million per year deal at 4 yrs , same as filppulla , cleary and franzen will go up , i just wouldnt want to have 4 guys average 6 to 7 million per year on the team , need more cash to spread out

Rex needs to be signed this offseason, and Flip next I just don't see them getting significant raises, yet. I agree with the Howard assesment, don't forget about Liv, and as for as I know, Larsson isn't under a current contract. At least I couldn't find any site that said he was.

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Bäckström would be interesting choice. He has really been impressive playing behind good defensive team like he did four years here in Finland. He just frustrates opponents. Dominating Kärpät Oulu was very kind of similar dominating team like Wings are at heir own level, so I think he could be a good fit.

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I agree. Like *I* would disagree on this...riiiiight.

It would be like Ozzie/Vernie all over again :P

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Damn, Osgood looks good in a cheerleader outfit. Nice legs! Wait, what did I just say? Oh s**t!!! :blush::D

Anyways, I don't understand how this page has gotten to be 4 pages already. Again, if Hasek still feels he can play and wants to play, Wings mgmt will probably bring him back, and he should be welcomed as he's managed to stay healthy this year and still show he's got game. If not, Osgood's still around which is fine, and bring up Howard and Liv. Enough of this "They aren't ready" bullarki. You give the full time NHL duty, they'll get ready.

The Wings don't need another 'stopgap' in goalie before Howard or Liv take the full time reigns in a few years.

Edited by SouthernWingsFan

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