Smyth or Bertuzzi?

[canucks1988 0]

i was wondering in detroit is bert liked by the fans and is the media all over him

[RusDRW 155]

We needed a player like Bert for a long time. When he is at 100% he is the best and the ONLY real power forward left in this league. Even right now, in this paly-offs, when Bert hits he delivers a lot of pain. Todd is the player every team wants to have. On the other hand, there are more players like Smyth in this league. You can think of Chris Drury, for example. Danny Briere, Scott Gomez, Brian Gionta to name few others.

[Guest Crymson]

Why do you hate him? He is a class act, no one plays harder or with more passion. He is the type of player we need. Maybe not at that price tag...

He's the type of player we need? Well, let's see... class act.. plays with passion.. good in front of the net. Sheesh, we're really in need of a player like that, aren't we? Well, no... we already have one, and his name is Tomas Holmstrom. I daresay he may actually be better than Smyth in front of the net, and he's a loyal, long-time Wing who plays for less than half the price Smyth will demand.

We don't need two roleplayers of the same type. Bertuzzi, at his best, is unstoppable and can fill a different role.

By the way, you say that Smyth got "burned" by Edmonton? Is this why he was crying when he left, promising that he'd be back? The disagreement was over some ~100K per year. He'll be back.

Babs has hinted at splitting up Pav and Hank, and they are both natural centers, next season. I think a guy like Smyth would fit in great with Pav, maybe throw Huds on the second line, and Flip on the first? I think Smyth would be worth a serious look. And again, I don't like the idea of giving up more for Bert by signing him, especially if he can't really turn it on in this series. He has about 20 games under his belt, so he should start coming around.

Have you ever tried to play ANY sport when coming off a serious back injury plus back surgery? There's a reason we got Bert for next to nothing.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Crymson

[Bannedforlife 403]

Bert's got softer hands than Smyth, but Ryan brings so many more untangibles to the table. He is a character guy that is a proven warrior. Bert has been castrated and I think after his back injury he is pensive to play the big physical game he used to. I'd take Smyth over Bert any day. I don't think that Todd can get back to the form he once was.

Me fail english?!?! That's unpossible!

[StevieY9802 6]

Its not a fair to compare who you would sign from the two. Bertuzzi won't be able to get the money Smyth will so salary wise they are not comparable. If you had 5.5 mil to spend and Smyth was gonna take that price and so would Bert you take Smyth I think. But Bert is going to be cheaper and I still think he can be a very good player here. Don't judge on what hes done this year so far. I don't think hes even played 30 games yet, including the playoffs. I would like to see him 100% at the start of the season and go through the year getting chemistry with these guys.

[OsGOD 3]

Blah blah blah... lets just get Guerin... I heard he is a real game breaker.... When he isn't breakin' his own face that is.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Blah blah blah... lets just get Guerin... I heard he is a real game breaker.... When he isn't breakin' his own face that is.

I hope your joking.

I hate Guerin , seeing him in a wings uniform would make me sick

[OsGOD 3]

I hope your joking.

I hate Guerin , seeing him in a wings uniform would make me sick

Sorry, I forgot my sarcasm ninja I totally see how you would have taken me seriously with out it

[rick zombo 3,739]

Here is what the Wings have committed for next years roster, with a total of $29.3 commited salary.

Lidstrom - $7.6

Datsyuk - $6.7

Zetterburg - $2.7

Draper - $2.128

Holmstrom - $2.250

Samuelson - $1.2

Kronwall - $1.5

Lilja - $1

Franzen - $.900

Filppula - $.850

Osgood - $.800

Cleary - $.675

Lebda - $.550

We would have $14 to spend on 1 D and 4 F

So:

Resign Bert - 3.5 Million/yr - 2 years

Sign Corey Sarich - 4 Million/yr - 3 years

Resign Schneider - 4.5 Million/yr - 3 years

Grigorenko - .85 Million

Hasek - 2 Million

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Grigorenko

Homer - Zetterberg - Franzen

Maltby - Draper - Cleary

Hudler - Filpulla - Sammuelson

Kopecky

Rotate Hudler, Sammy, Maltby, and Kopecky in and out of the line-up.

Lidstrom - Sarich

Schneider - Kronwall

Chelios - Lilja

Lebda/Quincey

Again, play Chelios and Lilja 40 - 50 games and rotate Quincey and Lebda through the line-up

Hasek

Osgood/Howard

Is it just me or is roster space going to be a bigger problem than Cap space

Kenny might want to think about making some trades.

[motorcitykid 42]

Smyth will be offered huge dollars wherever he goes, probably approaching the league max. I'd much rather take our chances with Bertuzzi and not have to mutilate the roster to accomodate a $6-7 mil player.

I doubt Smyth will be making 7 million next year. A raise on his 3 million +, but almost double his salary? Should be an interesting summer watch though. Wow, i'd LOVE Holland if he could bring Ryan here.

I just see much more of an upside with Smyth than Bert. Nothing against Bert, but I think Smyth would be a better fit.

[although I disagree with your comment on Smyth's hands. This guy can DO IT ALL. Believe this.]

As for Bertuzzi, why are some in here so angry if someone else states that we haven't seen enough of his game yet to justify signing him to a new contract. Did I miss something? Let's be fair. Bertuzzi hasn't shown much of anything so far here to be screaming at Holland to re-sign him. This isn't a like or dislike point of view. It's simply the reality. You sign Ryan Smyth right now today, you know exactly what player will be showing up in training camp in September. Get it done, Holland.

[Guest Don Corleone]

We all are very familiar with Ryan Smyth. We have seen the heart, passion, and drive he plays with. He is an UFA as of July 1st.

We are also familiar with Todd Bertuzzi. We know that he can score, he is a big body, he has great hands, and isn't afraid to drop the gloves.

I was doing some reading about theses two guys. I got to thinking, who would be a better fit for our team. It's a tough call. I know a lot of you don't think much of Bert, in large part because of he playoff preformace this year. But give the guy a break, he only played a handful of games this year. Next year he will be better. Ryan Smyth isn't anything flashy. He is basicly a smaller Homer who can skate better, and has a much better shot.

Between the two, I think I would take Smyth. Nothing against Bert, but with what the Wings would have to give up to sign him, I just can't say that I think he is worth it. I don't know what it would take to sign Smyth. No doubt it would be something close to what we signed Pav for. I don't know if that is really feasable. I know it is possible. If the Wings were to let Lang and Bert walk, it's very possible. Or even if they could get Bobby to re-up for around $2 per.

I think the biggest disadvantage with Bertuzzi is also his biggest advantage, you just don't know what you are getting. Are you going to get the Bert who isn't putting up much in these playoffs? Or you going to get the pre-Moore Bert who was as dominate as any power forward? I believe that Bert will be well within the Wings price range, but again, to give up more picks to sign him, I'm just not so sure that is a good idea.

Here is what the Wings have committed for next years roster, with a total of $29.3 commited salary.

Lidstrom - $7.6

Datsyuk - $6.7

Zetterburg - $2.7

Draper - $2.128

Holmstrom - $2.250

Samuelson - $1.2

Kronwall - $1.5

Lilja - $1

Franzen - $.900

Filppula - $.850

Osgood - $.800

Cleary - $.675

Lebda - $.550

That's 4 D, 8 F, and 1 G. Realisticly, we need to sign 2 D, 4 F, and at least 1 G. Odd are Cheli and Dom will be re-signed. Assuming both of those guys take similar contracts to what they had this year, that would eat about another $2. If the cap goes up to the sugested $49, I would think Kenny would want to spend about $45. We would have $14 to spend on 1 D and 4 F. It wouldn't be a stretch to get someone like Smyth. Even though Hank will be a UFA in 09-10, one would have to believe the cap would increase enough for the Wings to sign him. Even if the cap stayed stats quo, we have guys in the minors that could fill in gaps for affordable prices. IMO the only real question is Nick, and what he will be looking for after next season. I would much rather lock up Nick than sign a high priced UFA.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I got my salary info HERE it's only salary, no bonus hits included. It's under Player saleries by year. It's a pretty neat site, has a lot of nice info.

Definitely Ryan Smith.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Here is what the Wings have committed for next years roster, with a total of $29.3 commited salary.

Lidstrom - $7.6

Datsyuk - $6.7

Zetterburg - $2.7

Draper - $2.128

Holmstrom - $2.250

Samuelson - $1.2

Kronwall - $1.5

Lilja - $1

Franzen - $.900

Filppula - $.850

Osgood - $.800

Cleary - $.675

Lebda - $.550

We would have $14 to spend on 1 D and 4 F

So:

Resign Bert - 3.5 Million/yr - 2 years

Sign Corey Sarich - 4 Million/yr - 3 years

Resign Schneider - 4.5 Million/yr - 3 years

Grigorenko - .85 Million

Hasek - 2 Million

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Grigorenko

Homer - Zetterberg - Franzen

Maltby - Draper - Cleary

Hudler - Filpulla - Sammuelson

Kopecky

Rotate Hudler, Sammy, Maltby, and Kopecky in and out of the line-up.

Lidstrom - Sarich

Schneider - Kronwall

Chelios - Lilja

Lebda/Quincey

Again, play Chelios and Lilja 40 - 50 games and rotate Quincey and Lebda through the line-up

Hasek

Osgood/Howard

Is it just me or is roster space going to be a bigger problem than Cap space

Kenny might want to think about making some trades.

Well, first off, you need to add Cheli and Howard into your salary figure. Then go back and check your figures. According you your esitmates, not including Cheli and Howard, we have $14 in cap space to use, but your signings call for $14.85 in signing. Finally, we would need to leave some cap space for potential call ups, trades, and cap hits such as Dom's bonus from this year.

Me fail english?!?! That's unpossible!

Heh, I guess captian and typing don't go so swell together, eh? lol

[rick zombo 3,739]

Well, first off, you need to add Cheli and Howard into your salary figure. Then go back and check your figures. According you your esitmates, not including Cheli and Howard, we have $14 in cap space to use, but your signings call for $14.85 in signing. Finally, we would need to leave some cap space for potential call ups, trades, and cap hits such as Dom's bonus from this year.

Well that 14M you allowed for still leaves appox. 5M under the cap. Call-up's salary replaces injured players salary.

Dom gets a max bonus of 1.1M. Howard and Cheli will combine for 2M or so.

So that still leaves money under the cap.

[Kp-Wings 3]

How about this: I'd take them both.

[Guest Crymson]

Definitely Ryan Smith.

Sigh. What about Federov and Lindstrom?

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Well that 14M you allowed for still leaves appox. 5M under the cap. Call-up's salary replaces injured players salary.

Dom gets a max bonus of 1.1M. Howard and Cheli will combine for 2M or so.

So that still leaves money under the cap.

Your total listed says $29.3, but it adds up to $28.853, you are wrong on Kronwalls salary, as I was, it's actually a $3 hit. Adding that in to your total, you get $30.353. The cap is supposed to be $47-49. If Dom Cheli re-sign, both for the same, that's about $31.653.

Now here is where I am lost. Are you suggesting leaving Howard in the minors, or carrying him with the team? If he is carried with the team, that's an additional I think $850k. But I will leave that out. Adding in your potential signings that puts the team at $44.503, add in cap hits for buying Dmac, and Doms bonus this season, there isn't any wiggle room. Mind you most teams carry a few extra skaters on the NHL roster. Also with injury, the only way the injured players salary doesn't count against the cap is if he is placed on the long term injury list.

We don't have to cap room to spend $8 on three guys. Realisticly if Bert doesn't come back, and Lang walks, we could offer up about $4-6 for Symth, or any potential combination of UFA's. And I just can't see paying Matty $4.5, I can't even see the Wings giving him $3.5. Maybe a team like Philly who has cap room to overspend, but we don't.

One last thing, not trying to be confrontational about this, but how did you get your #'s for next years commited salary?

[rick zombo 3,739]

how did you get your #'s for next years commited salary?

Huh?

From your original post. I just quoted your numbers and went from there.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I'm not a financial salary cap expert, but I'm pretty sure the contract Smyth is going to demand would be a hamper for the Red Wings in the future. Hank is going to get a Datsyuk-like contact, and if Lidstrom wants to keep playing, they HAVE to sign him. I'm all for signing Smyth the player because he's terrific, but if it is going to wreck the Red Wings future, then no way. This team is doing fine without Smyth, and will continue to do so next season.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Sigh. What about Federov and Lindstrom?

Heh, he was bound to get that wrong. He is a Blues fan you know.

Even then, I haven't seen many people call Ryan Smyth "Ryan Smith". Even though it is somewhat of an easy mistake, it still doesn't happen that often. This takes the cake.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Huh?

From your original post. I just quoted your numbers and went from there.

I gathered that much, I meant how did you add them up?

[canucks1988 0]

smyth is there for a net presence and detroit already has enuf players who can do that very well eg. tomas holmstrom

[Guest bullocks]

I think we need to re-sign Schneider and Markov aswell...i doubt we'll re-sign bertuzzi and smyth isnt worth the money he'll get!

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Smyth brings the leadership qualities that Yzerman did. I love Nick, I'm not saying he isn't a worthy, deserving, or capable leader. But when you have a guy like Smyth who IS a leadrer in the locker room, even if there is no letter on his shoulder, and he goes out and plays hard like he does every night. Well, that inspires guys to play harder. I think Smyth would be the best possible UFA signing the Wings could make, if he doesn't ask $6+ per.

[BlakChamber 8]

If the prices were the same, I'd take Smyth with no second thoughts.

But depending on Bert's price, I think he could be a good fit in Detroit. He's really picked it up the last couple games. If he's healthy and the price is right, Detroit could be a good fit for him.

[ttbrunke 0]

Smyth is going to be asking 6-7mil wa can't afford that without giving up on the rest of the team

Bertuzzi is making over 5mil now so i can't see him signing for less than 4mil. He has not shown us anything that makes him worth that, I know he is injured but for 4 mil I don't think you take the chance. Plus his big year was on a line with Naslund and Morrison when they were all on fire. I don't think he fits with Hank and Dats.

Go out and sign two second line caliber players to replace Lang and calder (Zubrus, Zednik, Perrault, Antropov, Arnerson, etc). We need depth more than another big name.