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Smyth or Bertuzzi?


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#101 oilandwingsfan

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 04:56 PM

Ryan Smyth is no doubt a heart and soul player. However, i don't believe he is worth what he would be asking (something in the 5.5 - 6 mill range.) Before he left us most of us agreed that the max we'd give him is 5.5. The Wings have a very similar player in Holmstrom so i don't think it's necessary to have Smyth on the team as well. No doubt his leadership/dedication would be a benefit but the Wings already have many capable leaders.

Bertuzzi, for me, possesses the grit and presence that would intimidate the other teams. Otherwise, I don't really see much worth in Bertuzzi.

So to answer the question, i would pick none of the above. And i'm not being biased or anything just 'cause Smyth ditched us in Feb or that we have history with Bert. tongue.gif

#102 BringHomeTheCup!

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE(ttbrunke @ May 11, 2007 - 04:44PM) View Post

Smyth is going to be asking 6-7mil wa can't afford that without giving up on the rest of the team

Bertuzzi is making over 5mil now so i can't see him signing for less than 4mil. He has not shown us anything that makes him worth that, I know he is injured but for 4 mil I don't think you take the chance. Plus his big year was on a line with Naslund and Morrison when they were all on fire. I don't think he fits with Hank and Dats.

Go out and sign two second line caliber players to replace Lang and calder (Zubrus, Zednik, Perrault, Antropov, Arnerson, etc). We need depth more than another big name.

Smyth could get $6-7 per, but not if he wants to play on a contending team. The only team that could be considered anywhere near contention with the cap room to sign him would be Pittsburg, and they hasve Fluery, Crosby, Malkin, and Staal to re-up, all with in the next 3 years. So realisticly, they don't have the cap space either.

I can't really see us paying Bert more than $3 per. He has been getting better. But with his history of back problems, and lack of preformace with out Naslund, it's a huge risk. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, and how he plays. It's just a pretty big investment to not know what you are getting into.

As far as Perreault goes, I don't think he'd fit in Detroit. He is stellar on the draw, but over his career he has put up more than 50 points twice, he has come close a few times, but his career average is about 42 points per year. Zubrus, well, I'd take Yannic before I'd take him. This guy hasn't been anything better than Lang, and will probablyt get about $3-4 per. Zednik intrigues me. I like his style, but he is only good for about 32 points per year. Give Maltby a bigger role, he could do that. Antripov is a very big boy. I like the size, but again, he is about a 30 point scorer. He has been pretty much a flop in Toronto.

#103 ttbrunke

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 05:14 PM

QUOTE(BringHomeTheCup! @ May 11, 2007 - 05:59PM) View Post

Smyth could get $6-7 per, but not if he wants to play on a contending team. The only team that could be considered anywhere near contention with the cap room to sign him would be Pittsburg, and they hasve Fluery, Crosby, Malkin, and Staal to re-up, all with in the next 3 years. So realisticly, they don't have the cap space either.

I can't really see us paying Bert more than $3 per. He has been getting better. But with his history of back problems, and lack of preformace with out Naslund, it's a huge risk. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, and how he plays. It's just a pretty big investment to not know what you are getting into.

As far as Perreault goes, I don't think he'd fit in Detroit. He is stellar on the draw, but over his career he has put up more than 50 points twice, he has come close a few times, but his career average is about 42 points per year. Zubrus, well, I'd take Yannic before I'd take him. This guy hasn't been anything better than Lang, and will probablyt get about $3-4 per. Zednik intrigues me. I like his style, but he is only good for about 32 points per year. Give Maltby a bigger role, he could do that. Antripov is a very big boy. I like the size, but again, he is about a 30 point scorer. He has been pretty much a flop in Toronto.


I live here in Buffalo where Zubrus plays now, he is a big body that has been crushing opponents with big hits, using his size to get chances and make room for other players. For those reasons I think he is much better than Lang. I also see alot of Antropov, he is stuck in a system in Toronto that is all grit and no finesse, I think if he were to go somewhere else you might see him open up a bit. I agree with you about Yannic I just thought he would be cheap and a good Second line center. I also see what you say about Zednik, i think he is a character guy I've heard that he has a great work ethic, and from what I've see he has good hands too. Granted none of these are the big splash signings like we are used to the wings making but we have a cap now and I think 2 players at about 90-100 pts total for 5-6mil is better than 6-7mil for smyth whom I think is going to be all about the money this off season and is good for 70-80pts. Or Bertuzzi who most likely will not take less than 4mil knowing that someone will give him at least that, and is very questionable performance wise. Based on this year which I understand ist fair he would only be about a 50 point guy. He has only been over 30 goals twice, and I think we all agree he's not nearly that player right now so I think best case we could be looking at 30goals and 70 points (BEST CASE).

#104 BringHomeTheCup!

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 05:53 PM

QUOTE(ttbrunke @ May 11, 2007 - 06:14PM) View Post

I live here in Buffalo where Zubrus plays now, he is a big body that has been crushing opponents with big hits, using his size to get chances and make room for other players. For those reasons I think he is much better than Lang. I also see alot of Antropov, he is stuck in a system in Toronto that is all grit and no finesse, I think if he were to go somewhere else you might see him open up a bit. I agree with you about Yannic I just thought he would be cheap and a good Second line center. I also see what you say about Zednik, i think he is a character guy I've heard that he has a great work ethic, and from what I've see he has good hands too. Granted none of these are the big splash signings like we are used to the wings making but we have a cap now and I think 2 players at about 90-100 pts total for 5-6mil is better than 6-7mil for smyth whom I think is going to be all about the money this off season and is good for 70-80pts. Or Bertuzzi who most likely will not take less than 4mil knowing that someone will give him at least that, and is very questionable performance wise. Based on this year which I understand ist fair he would only be about a 50 point guy. He has only been over 30 goals twice, and I think we all agree he's not nearly that player right now so I think best case we could be looking at 30goals and 70 points (BEST CASE).

I would rather make a signing like Smyth, and promote Flip to second line center, if Hank and Pav aren't broken up. I've mentioned this before, but Babs has hinted that he would like to be able to break up the Euro twins. What I see in the Smyth signing, is this. You could potentiall create two very similar lines, say a Homer - Hank - Flip, and a Smyth - Pav - Huds line. I really like that idea. Or really any combination that would have Homer and Smyth on different lines. Our third line would be all grit, Franzen - Draper - Cleary, and fourth line Malts - Grigs? - Mule. In the real world, I know Mule would more likely be on the 2nd or 3rd line, but I really love those first 4 lines, and the way Mule likes to shoot, playing with Grigs who wil lbe in his first NHL season would be nice. Typically rooks like to pass more, and don't shoot enough. Although his stats since being drafted aren't so good, he is a playmaker.

#105 ttbrunke

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE(BringHomeTheCup! @ May 11, 2007 - 06:53PM) View Post

I would rather make a signing like Smyth, and promote Flip to second line center, if Hank and Pav aren't broken up. I've mentioned this before, but Babs has hinted that he would like to be able to break up the Euro twins. What I see in the Smyth signing, is this. You could potentiall create two very similar lines, say a Homer - Hank - Flip, and a Smyth - Pav - Huds line. I really like that idea. Or really any combination that would have Homer and Smyth on different lines. Our third line would be all grit, Franzen - Draper - Cleary, and fourth line Malts - Grigs? - Mule. In the real world, I know Mule would more likely be on the 2nd or 3rd line, but I really love those first 4 lines, and the way Mule likes to shoot, playing with Grigs who wil lbe in his first NHL season would be nice. Typically rooks like to pass more, and don't shoot enough. Although his stats since being drafted aren't so good, he is a playmaker.


Well we could argue about this all day. I don't know if you want to put Flip or Hudler on the 1st line yet. THey are still young and have not developed into that player yet. I think you could go with this and be well off without spending a ton of cash.

Holm-Dats-Zetts
Flip-Perrault-Zubrus
Franzen-?-Hudler
Malts-Draper-Cleary

Need to fit in Sammy I guess we are short a natural center

The question mark is that 3rd line center. Grigs will not be ready for that role yet, I don't think you will se much of him next year. Maybe Kopecky will be ready to play but I don't know if that helps you any more. Perrault and Zubrus are just suggestions, I like the idea of Smyth too but I can't imagine having a successful team with 20 million tied up in 3 players. Plus I want them to be sure they can get Zetts locked up before he hits FA.

Edited by ttbrunke, 11 May 2007 - 06:32 PM.


#106 BringHomeTheCup!

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 06:32 PM

QUOTE(ttbrunke @ May 11, 2007 - 07:17PM) View Post

Well we could argue about this all day. I don't know if you want to put Flip or Hudler on the 1st line yet. THey are still young and have not developed into that player yet. I think you could go with this and be well off without spending a ton of cash.

Holm-Dats-Zetts
Flip-Perrault-Zubrus
Franzen-?-Hudler
Malts-Draper-Cleary

The question mark is that 3rd line center. Grigs will not be ready for that role yet, I don't think you will se much of him next year. Maybe Kopecky will be ready to play but I don't know if that helps you any more. Perrault and Zubrus are just suggestions, I like the idea of Smyth too but I can't imagine having a successful team with 20 million tied up in 3 players. Plus I want them to be sure they can get Zetts locked up before he hits FA.

I think the key to all this is Lidstrom. Does he have the drive to play until he is 42, 43, 44? We have him signed through next season, he will then be a 38 year-old UFA. No doubt he would draw HUGE intrest from teams. If Nick wants to play, he will do it in Detroit. But every time he is up for a new contract, it's 'Well I'm not sure, I might go back to Sweden.' Bargining chip? Hells yes. But is he serious about even considering it. Who knows.

I speculate that Hank will get a deal similar to Pavs. So we'd have $15 tied up with them, add in Nick, that $20-23. Add in Smyth, $24-29. That is a lot of money tied up with 4 guys. But I think with the cap rising, and the popularity of the Wings, Kenny will have the money to spend. Is it a good idea? I'm not sure if tying up over half your pay roll on 3-4 guys ever is. But man, it's a hell of a lot of fun to think about.

I wouldn't put Draper as a 4th liner, he is getting paid too much and is too effective in shutting down oppsing top lines to be a 4th liner. I would like to see Grigs in that spot. Just get him accumstomed to the NHL game, and life. And you forgot Mule in your lineup, I wish Kenny could find a way to do that...

#107 BuckeyeWingsfan80

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 06:34 PM

for what they'd end up having to pay Smyth, I'd take Bertuzzi as a discount with a healthy off-season to get back into the groove..

Bert will come at a discount this off-season. And he'll have something to prove.

They might only get him for a year or two, but he could get 30 goals next year and no one would be surprised if he stays healthy.
Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#108 ttbrunke

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 06:44 PM

QUOTE(BringHomeTheCup! @ May 11, 2007 - 07:32PM) View Post

I think the key to all this is Lidstrom. Does he have the drive to play until he is 42, 43, 44? We have him signed through next season, he will then be a 38 year-old UFA. No doubt he would draw HUGE intrest from teams. If Nick wants to play, he will do it in Detroit. But every time he is up for a new contract, it's 'Well I'm not sure, I might go back to Sweden.' Bargining chip? Hells yes. But is he serious about even considering it. Who knows.

I speculate that Hank will get a deal similar to Pavs. So we'd have $15 tied up with them, add in Nick, that $20-23. Add in Smyth, $24-29. That is a lot of money tied up with 4 guys. But I think with the cap rising, and the popularity of the Wings, Kenny will have the money to spend. Is it a good idea? I'm not sure if tying up over half your pay roll on 3-4 guys ever is. But man, it's a hell of a lot of fun to think about.

I wouldn't put Draper as a 4th liner, he is getting paid too much and is too effective in shutting down oppsing top lines to be a 4th liner. I would like to see Grigs in that spot. Just get him accumstomed to the NHL game, and life. And you forgot Mule in your lineup, I wish Kenny could find a way to do that...


That's funny i did realize after the fact that I forgot Sammy, easy to do I guess. Like I said I like the Smyth move as well but it's that pesky money thing that's the problem. I think you bring back Lidstrom for 2 more years, this team will play alot different witout him. i think he is definately the center of thier success (shutting down players, PP, PK, Starting the rush, Saving Dom) he does it all. If you don't plan on bringing back Lids I think you need to look at replacing him with another top flight defensmen ( I don't see one in our system currently, maybe Kronwall will develope if he ever finishes a season). I also see what your saying with the draper thing but they wouldn't be a true 4th line they would probably play more than the 3rd line just because of the shut down aspect. I think whatever you do you keep cleary and draper together they work well. I guess we will have to see about Grigs.

#109 servo

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE(Bannedforlife @ May 10, 2007 - 12:30PM) View Post

Me fail english?!?! That's unpossible!



Actually, I failed typing, the I is next the the U crazy.gif laugh.gif
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#110 BringHomeTheCup!

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE(ttbrunke @ May 11, 2007 - 07:44PM) View Post

That's funny i did realize after the fact that I forgot Sammy, easy to do I guess. Like I said I like the Smyth move as well but it's that pesky money thing that's the problem. I think you bring back Lidstrom for 2 more years, this team will play alot different witout him. i think he is definately the center of thier success (shutting down players, PP, PK, Starting the rush, Saving Dom) he does it all. If you don't plan on bringing back Lids I think you need to look at replacing him with another top flight defensmen ( I don't see one in our system currently, maybe Kronwall will develope if he ever finishes a season). I also see what your saying with the draper thing but they wouldn't be a true 4th line they would probably play more than the 3rd line just because of the shut down aspect. I think whatever you do you keep cleary and draper together they work well. I guess we will have to see about Grigs.

I really dig the thought of having Draper, Maltby, and Cleary toether, that's a great line. As far as other top flight defensemen, I just don't think any are going to be available. At least no one who could step in a really come close to doing what Nick does. When Nick leaves, I think Detroit instantly has to change it's style of play.







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