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WingNut199

No faith in Jimmy Howard?

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So this topic HAS NOTHING TO DO with whether or not Hasek will be back next year OR if he deserves to be back. PAY ATTENTION, I'm almost positive he will be back next year AND I'm not discouraging the idea at all.. I think Dom played fantastic this season and in playoffs (besides games 5&6 where I thought he let in a number of soft goals)

BUT

Jimmy Howard was a highly saught after netminder after what he showed he was capable of in college.. thankfully for us he was drafted by the Wings BUT since then IMO he has been treated like a second rate goaltender who isn't even good enough to warm the bench? (by this forum and also the organization).

So I guess my question is, Why are so many people on this forum ragging on Howard the way they are?

To address just a couple arguements against Howard I've been reading..

1) He's too inexperienced to play in the NHL

- He has shown in the minors that he is a very impressive and consistant netminder

- How is going to get experience in the NHL if we don't play him, even in a backup role?

2) I'd rather have Ozzie in backup than Howard

- Why? Ozzie played how many games this year? 20 or so? I'd rather have a very promising up and coming netminder as backup than an aging one to play 20 or so games a year

OH, and if you're so worried that Howard will likely be replacing an injured Hasek, than why bring back Dom at all?

To wrap this up, nearly everyone feels Howard is our franchise goalie of the future... So why are we leaving him to rot in the minors? I say play him. He has to get his experience some day, and I think that should be a lot sooner than later (like next season). Otherwise, I don't see what would inspire him to stick around here

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Play tons of games in GR > 'warming the bench' in Detroit. Besides, Ozzie has another year left on his contract.

Edited by Systemfel

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So this topic HAS NOTHING TO DO with whether or not Hasek will be back next year OR if he deserves to be back. PAY ATTENTION, I'm almost positive he will be back next year AND I'm not discouraging the idea at all.. I think Dom played fantastic this season and in playoffs (besides games 5&6 where I thought he let in a number of soft goals)

BUT

Jimmy Howard was a highly saught after netminder after what he showed he was capable of in college.. thankfully for us he was drafted by the Wings BUT since then IMO he has been treated like a second rate goaltender who isn't even good enough to warm the bench? (by this forum and also the organization).

So I guess my question is, Why are so many people on this forum ragging on Howard the way they are?

To address just a couple arguements against Howard I've been reading..

1) He's too inexperienced to play in the NHL

- He has shown in the minors that he is a very impressive and consistant netminder

- How is going to get experience in the NHL if we don't play him, even in a backup role?

2) I'd rather have Ozzie in backup than Howard

- Why? Ozzie played how many games this year? 20 or so? I'd rather have a very promising up and coming netminder as backup than an aging one to play 20 or so games a year

OH, and if you're so worried that Howard will likely be replacing an injured Hasek, than why bring back Dom at all?

To wrap this up, nearly everyone feels Howard is our franchise goalie of the future... So why are we leaving him to rot in the minors? I say play him. He has to get his experience some day, and I think that should be a lot sooner than later (like next season). Otherwise, I don't see what would inspire him to stick around here

It isn't about the Wings, or the fans not having any faith in Howard. We have been excited about Howard ever since the Wings drafted him and have very high expectations of him. But we do not want to see him rushed. Young goalies take longer to develop. Very rarely do we see goalies like Roy step right in and dominate.

From all indications by his coaches in Grand Rapids is that he is not ready yet. The Wings trust those guys to make the decisions on their young players.

Playing another season in Grand Rapids is not the worst thing in the world. Howard himself even said he is not ready for the NHL yet. I give him credit for being honest. Most goalies would lie and say they are ready when they are not.

Howard can play another season in the AHL (which is an excellent league by the way) and develop more, gain more confidence and be that much better for when he does get his chance in the NHL. 1 year more of investment will pay off for 10 years of playing. That is how I see it.

I can't wait for Howard to be the Wings goalie for 10 seasons but I am also willing to wait until he is ready to do it. In the meantime we can watch Hasek lead us to a Cup win next season. It's a win/win if you ask me.

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Rot? He'd rot up with the Wings. He's down with the Griffins so he can play. And playing is exactly what he needs to be doing at this point. Last season was the first time he's cracked 40 games played.

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So this topic HAS NOTHING TO DO with whether or not Hasek will be back next year OR if he deserves to be back. PAY ATTENTION, I'm almost positive he will be back next year AND I'm not discouraging the idea at all.. I think Dom played fantastic this season and in playoffs (besides games 5&6 where I thought he let in a number of soft goals)

BUT

Jimmy Howard was a highly saught after netminder after what he showed he was capable of in college.. thankfully for us he was drafted by the Wings BUT since then IMO he has been treated like a second rate goaltender who isn't even good enough to warm the bench? (by this forum and also the organization).

So I guess my question is, Why are so many people on this forum ragging on Howard the way they are?

To address just a couple arguements against Howard I've been reading..

1) He's too inexperienced to play in the NHL

- He has shown in the minors that he is a very impressive and consistant netminder

- How is going to get experience in the NHL if we don't play him, even in a backup role?

2) I'd rather have Ozzie in backup than Howard

- Why? Ozzie played how many games this year? 20 or so? I'd rather have a very promising up and coming netminder as backup than an aging one to play 20 or so games a year

OH, and if you're so worried that Howard will likely be replacing an injured Hasek, than why bring back Dom at all?

To wrap this up, nearly everyone feels Howard is our franchise goalie of the future... So why are we leaving him to rot in the minors? I say play him. He has to get his experience some day, and I think that should be a lot sooner than later (like next season). Otherwise, I don't see what would inspire him to stick around here

I remember Joe Morgan saying this once, and it equally applies to hockey. If you have an NHL experienced player vs. one who is either really young or a prospect, you take the experience almost everytime. No doubt Howard has the talent, but why take "prospective" talent over a proven goaltender in Ozzie? Besides, Ozzie has a year left on his contract, so its pretty much set he will be at least our backup next season.

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Some day the Wings will have a really good goaltender in Jimmy Howard. but when you are, and want to stay a competitive team an experienced goalie is a must . Howard will get his chance when the time is right.

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BUT since then IMO he has been treated like a second rate goaltender

It's not just your opinion. It's a fact. And I think you've answered all your own questions to be honest.

At the NHL level he would be, and is currently, a second rate goalkeep.

aloha

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Jimmy Howard was a highly saught after netminder after what he showed he was capable of in college.. thankfully for us he was drafted by the Wings BUT since then IMO he has been treated like a second rate goaltender who isn't even good enough to warm the bench?

:rolleyes:

We put a young goaltender in GR to let him play constantly against other talented youngsters rather then letting him sit and pick splinters out of his dairy air and learn nothing.

The Humanity! The Disrespect!

Your argument makes NO sense in any way shape or form. That is what Grand Rapids is for. That is the purpose. That is why it exists. What are you talking about?

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We put a young goaltender in GR to let him play constantly against other talented youngsters rather then letting him sit and pick splinters out of his dairy air and learn nothing.

:D:D

Probably the best misspelling I've ever seen.

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from everything I have read JHo is just lacking the day in day out consistency to move up to DET.. remember, in college they only play 2 games a weekend (except for the holidays when they play a couple weekday games followed by holiday tourneys).. the point made earlier is right on: goalies take a long time to develop.

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- He has shown in the minors that he is a very impressive and consistant netminder

Incorrect. If his AHL play has showed anything, it's that he has had trouble being consistent. He has started out the season slow and picked it up, but at times his play has been spotty. Nothing wrong with it, he's only 23, came from the NCAA where teams only played on the weekends and 30-40 games in a season at best. He has all the potential in the world, all the ability to be a world class netminder, but for that to happen, he needs to develop a familiarity with the grind of the schedule and work on his consistency. Just take a look at Turco and Miller; both came from the NCAA and took them a while to get the starter's role, too.

I have been a fan of Howard since his USNTDP days. He is a fantastic goalie and I'm glad he is in the Red Wings organization. He will get his shot when the time is right. As of now, he is definitely being groomed to take over by the organization.

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How is going to get experience in the NHL if we don't play him, even in a backup role?

To wrap this up, nearly everyone feels Howard is our franchise goalie of the future... So why are we leaving him to rot in the minors? I say play him.

Great post, and I totally agree. However...if Dom decides to not retire...theres not alot to be expected. Howard will play the majority of games in GR now that Liv recognized he wouldn't even be given a chance to play in the big league. Howard has to be thinking the same thing might be true for him as far as being a regular.

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Great post, and I totally agree. However...if Dom decides to not retire...theres not alot to be expected. Howard will play the majority of games in GR now that Liv recognized he wouldn't even be given a chance to play in the big league. Howard has to be thinking the same thing might be true for him as far as being a regular.

I personally believe Liv is going to head back to Sweden. He only signed a 1-year deal. If I was him I would sign for another year to see if this year was just an adjusting period, but if what we saw this year is any indication, he's best suited back in Europe.

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I offer up a vote of no confidence myself. Perhaps he will turn out to be something impressive... perhaps not. JFH has still much to prove in the NHL career. Right now he is nothing more than an AHLer.

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I offer up a vote of no confidence myself. Perhaps he will turn out to be something impressive... perhaps not. JFH has still much to prove in the NHL career. Right now he is nothing more than an AHLer.

I wouldn't go as far as saying no confidence in him. I'd probably say that if he works on getting more consistency in his game, that he has the potential to be a good NHL goaltender.

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I think Dom played fantastic this season and in playoffs (besides games 5&6 where I thought he let in a number of soft goals)

I'm sorry I know this thread is about Howard, and I'll comment on that as well, I just had to ask what game 5 were you watching? There were only 2 goals scored against Dom, one was a deflection off his own players stick, the last one was Selanne walking in all alone after a turnover. Hardly soft goals. GM 6 I'll give you. But game 5 Dom was impressive.

As for Howard, his time will come. I have every confidence that we will have our franchise for years to come, but Jimmy, the GR staff, and Kenny Holland say he's not ready yet. If they say that then who are we to argue. Be patient young grasshopper...good things come to those who wait.

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He has 4 NHL games of expierence. Bringing him up now would basically mean he'd stay backup. No way Babcock makes him starter at the snap of his fingers, just like that. He's only a rookie.

Let him stay in the minors for one more year. He can still be assigned to GR without having to clear waivers, so we might as well take advantage of that time while it's there.

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I wouldn't go as far as saying no confidence in him. I'd probably say that if he works on getting more consistency in his game, that he has the potential to be a good NHL goaltender.

Well see I am so used to the wings letting other teams groom and condition the goalies and then let us pick them up at the end of their playing career. That way we know if they are good or not and its an easy decision!

Edited by OsGOD

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I kinda agree.

For the most part, everyone on this board would rather have every single prospect of ours sit in the AHL until they're 30, y'know - just to make sure they're ready.

If Hasek and/or Osgood isnt back next season, then I think Howard should split time with someone. If Hasek doesnt retire or settle for a low price then I think Howard/Osgood should split time. It does take longer for goalies to develop, but Howard needs a chance atleast. Biron already had almost 50GP(~.910%) in the NHL when he was Howards age.

I really wish we didnt have Oz locked up. A Hasek/Howard tandem would be awesome. It would enable 43-year old Hasek to have good amount of rest while a young tender is getting experience and assistance from a hall of famer. But, we have Osgood signed and thus it will be Hasek/Osgood or Osgood/Howard and I doubt they'll depend on Osgood & Howard.

Seriously, some of you here would probably have a heart attack if we had a Vlasic or Carle that came to the NHL without AHL experience.

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So I guess my question is, Why are so many people on this forum ragging on Howard the way they are?

All of us Wings fans are brutally anal when it comes to talking about goalies and them being scrutinized. It makes all of our I.Q. levels drop a little bit. As a result, I try to avoid goalie talk as much as possible. :P

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So I guess my question is, Why are so many people on this forum ragging on Howard the way they are?

We don't rag on Howard. We simply say that he is not ready for consistent time at the NHL level.

- He has shown in the minors that he is a very impressive and consistant netminder

- How is going to get experience in the NHL if we don't play him, even in a backup role?

Wrong. Check your data before you make posts like this. Howard has been very inconsistent at the AHL level. That has been his main problem. If he can't be consistent at the AHL level, what makes you think he'll do ok at the NHL level?

He'll get experience when he's ready to play in the NHL. At present, his AHL statistics suggest that he'd get smoked in the NHL. That's not good experience; that's crushing experience.

2) I'd rather have Ozzie in backup than Howard

- Why? Ozzie played how many games this year? 20 or so? I'd rather have a very promising up and coming netminder as backup than an aging one to play 20 or so games a year

Ozzie played very few games because Dom was the better goalie. Ozzie is still a VERY good goalie. Besides Toskala, he's likely the best backup in the league.

OH, and if you're so worried that Howard will likely be replacing an injured Hasek, than why bring back Dom at all?

To wrap this up, nearly everyone feels Howard is our franchise goalie of the future... So why are we leaving him to rot in the minors? I say play him. He has to get his experience some day, and I think that should be a lot sooner than later (like next season). Otherwise, I don't see what would inspire him to stick around here

He is the franchise goalie of our future... note future. Kiprusoff was--avowedly--the Sharks` "goalie of the future," and he played in the minors before they sent him to Calgary.

If a player can't perform in college, he or she doesn't get drafted because the pros are harder than college; this means that one who doesn't do well in college will do even worse at the pro level. Likewise, if one cannot play well at the AHL level then one will not play well at the NHL level. Throwing one into the NHL anyway can prove to be a crushing experience. Ryan Miller, back in 2004 when he was still inexperienced, had a massive mental meltdown after getting pounded in an NHL game. Not good.

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I kinda agree.

For the most part, everyone on this board would rather have every single prospect of ours sit in the AHL until they're 30, y'know - just to make sure they're ready.

If Hasek and/or Osgood isnt back next season, then I think Howard should split time with someone. If Hasek doesnt retire or settle for a low price then I think Howard/Osgood should split time. It does take longer for goalies to develop, but Howard needs a chance atleast. Biron already had almost 50GP(~.910%) in the NHL when he was Howards age.

I really wish we didnt have Oz locked up. A Hasek/Howard tandem would be awesome. It would enable 43-year old Hasek to have good amount of rest while a young tender is getting experience and assistance from a hall of famer. But, we have Osgood signed and thus it will be Hasek/Osgood or Osgood/Howard and I doubt they'll depend on Osgood & Howard.

Seriously, some of you here would probably have a heart attack if we had a Vlasic or Carle that came to the NHL without AHL experience.

Problem is , We dont have any prospects in our system (Maybe Grigenko) that could come up to the pros and be a star.Most of our prospects could use AHL time to get there game better. Howard needs time , and yes I mean that. Do you actaully think he could come up and get 10 to 15 wins next year ? I dont , maybe in a years time when he gets used to playing more games. But at his development level now , hes not totally ready.

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Yeah, but Carle & Vlasic were no Crosby's... I dont think anyone expected them to come out of college like they did and end up like this. Kindl doesnt need to be in the AHL, but all of you will want him to be. If he nearly made team last year then he better this year.

You also have no idea if any of our prospects could step it up and come into the NHL. Kindl was one of the top Europeans in his draft.

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Yeah, but Carle & Vlasic were no Crosby's... I dont think anyone expected them to come out of college like they did and end up like this. Kindl doesnt need to be in the AHL, but all of you will want him to be. If he nearly made team last year then he better this year.

You also have no idea if any of our prospects could step it up and come into the NHL. Kindl was one of the top Europeans in his draft.

Thats true. But I want Kindl to stay in junoirs because I hate how many Junoir stars there already losing.

Hes only 19 , he has lots of time to Develop into a great defenceman , On the wings , on GR or with his junoir team.

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