Obstruction, Hooking, Slashing. Holding, Clutching, and Grabbing

[rick zombo 3,739]

There's too much of it in this Stanley Cup Final. It's hard to watch. Anaheim especially are getting away with it on every Ottawa dump in.It's quite ridiculous actually. Pre-lockout hockey. So much for the new NHL>

And for all you Duck fans on here, it's impossible to deny, so don't bother.

Link to some comments made by Bowman

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007/05/bo...y_of_ducks.html

[DEVILSWATERBOY 10]

There's too much of it in this Stanley Cup Final. It's hard to watch. Anaheim especially are getting away with it on every Ottawa dump in.It's quite ridiculous actually. Pre-lockout hockey. So much for the new NHL>

And for all you Duck fans on here, it's impossible to deny, so don't bother.

Link to some comments made by Bowman

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007/05/bo...y_of_ducks.html

Ducks got away with alot of that against the Wings not surprising hey it is the new NHL small market teams have to win in Bettmans new league; way to go Bettman, step down you have ruined the game

Edited May 31, 2007 by DEVILSWATERBOY

[rick zombo 3,739]

Ducks got away with alot of that against the Wings not surprising hey it is the new NHL small market teams have to win in Bettmans new league; way to go Bettman, step down you have ruined the game

They did get away with some obstuction against the Wings. It has become significantly more noticeable this series against the Senators. The more they get away with, the worse it gets. And now it would seem almost impossible for the refs to start making calls because the standard seems to have been set.

But it's extremely obvious and it's giving Anaheim a huge advantage. 11 shots for Ottawa. Very few of them came 5 on 5.

[Hank 0]

There's too much of it in this Stanley Cup Final. It's hard to watch. Anaheim especially are getting away with it on every Ottawa dump in.It's quite ridiculous actually. Pre-lockout hockey. So much for the new NHL>

And for all you Duck fans on here, it's impossible to deny, so don't bother.

Link to some comments made by Bowman

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007/05/bo...y_of_ducks.html

I hate to agree with this, but you're right. I can't believe some of the crap Anaheim has gotten away this year in the playoffs.

How many times are their dmen allowed to crosscheck people into the ice and not get a call? This was always called the last two seasons and even last years playoffs. But this year? No.

How about the blatant hook Sammy got in Game 5 prior to Datsyuk taking the illfated penalty at the end of the game? It was incredibly obvious and yet wasn't called.

The Ducks also do a terrific job in interfering with forecheckers when the puck is dumped in.

All of this was called last season, this season and in last years playoffs. What's crazy is the Ducks still receive 7 penalties a game, but in reality you could make a case for them being shorthanded the whole game. And maybe that's where the problem lies. The officials call so much against them already, they don't want to make it overboard. But in last nights game, I thought you could have easily called 20 penalties against the Ducks.

Bettman and company seriously need to look at doing everything possible to open the game up. Last nights tilt was one of the most boring exhibits of Stanley Cup Finals play I've seen since the Dead-puck era.

I don't care what anyone says, scoring chances pale in comparison to actual goals. The NHL needs to either increase the size of the nets or make the goalie equipment much, much smaller. Give the choice to the goalies so they can feel the wrath from the fans. Let them decide if they want to be responsible for making such a drastic change in the game.

And Stephen Walkom and his staff need to re-evaluate what's going on out there. The Ducks look like the Devils from '95 with all the garbage they're getting away with. Is this what the NHL wants only 2 years after the lockout?

I've always been a supporter of the new rules and what the NHL is trying to do. But the Ducks are making a mockery of the new NHL and the officials are letting them get away with it.

Call it sour grapes all you want, but I know what I'm watching out there. And it's not good hockey.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I hate to agree with this, but you're right. I can't believe some of the crap Anaheim has gotten away this year in the playoffs.

How many times are their dmen allowed to crosscheck people into the ice and not get a call? This was always called the last two seasons and even last years playoffs. But this year? No.

How about the blatant hook Sammy got in Game 5 prior to Datsyuk taking the illfated penalty at the end of the game? It was incredibly obvious and yet wasn't called.

The Ducks also do a terrific job in interfering with forecheckers when the puck is dumped in.

All of this was called last season, this season and in last years playoffs. What's crazy is the Ducks still receive 7 penalties a game, but in reality you could make a case for them being shorthanded the whole game. And maybe that's where the problem lies. The officials call so much against them already, they don't want to make it overboard. But in last nights game, I thought you could have easily called 20 penalties against the Ducks.

Bettman and company seriously need to look at doing everything possible to open the game up. Last nights tilt was one of the most boring exhibits of Stanley Cup Finals play I've seen since the Dead-puck era.

I don't care what anyone says, scoring chances pale in comparison to actual goals. The NHL needs to either increase the size of the nets or make the goalie equipment much, much smaller. Give the choice to the goalies so they can feel the wrath from the fans. Let them decide if they want to be responsible for making such a drastic change in the game.

And Stephen Walkom and his staff need to re-evaluate what's going on out there. The Ducks look like the Devils from '95 with all the garbage they're getting away with. Is this what the NHL wants only 2 years after the lockout?

I've always been a supporter of the new rules and what the NHL is trying to do. But the Ducks are making a mockery of the new NHL and the officials are letting them get away with it.

Call it sour grapes all you want, but I know what I'm watching out there. And it's not good hockey.

Exactly, and what's amazing is how little it's being discussed in the media. It's a huge issue and most people with influence on the game are ignoring it.

CBC touched on it a bit last night. To paraphrase Ron MacLean:

"When Ottawa dump the puck in on either wing, it's not the Anaheim defencemen on that side that goes back to retrive the puck. It's the other defencemen on the other wing who comes all the way diagonally across the ice to get it. This is a long chase for that defencemen and only works if his partner make 'a little' contact with the player who dumped the puck and is trying to get by in order to forecheck"

But this is the extent of it.

I don't know, maybe no one wants to upset Burke. But it's a joke that it's hapening on the ice, and being ignored off the ice.

Absolutely the worst part of Hockey.

[OsGOD 3]

BZZZZZZZZ

Alex....

What are thing the Anaheim Mighty Phucks do on a regular basis to get to the NHL Finals?

Edited May 31, 2007 by OsGOD

[Hank 0]

Exactly, and what's amazing is how little it's being discussed in the media. It's a huge issue and most people with influence on the game are ignoring it.

CBC touched on it a bit last night. To paraphrase Ron MacLean:

"When Ottawa dump the puck in on either wing, it's not the Anaheim defencemen on that side that goes back to retrive the puck. It's the other defencemen on the other wing who comes all the way diagonally across the ice to get it. This is a long chase for that defencemen and only works if his partner make 'a little' contact with the player who dumped the puck and is trying to get by in order to forecheck"

But this is the extent of it.

I don't know, maybe no one wants to upset Burke. But it's a joke that it's hapening on the ice, and being ignored off the ice.

Absolutely the worst part of Hockey.

Couldn't agree more. I love rough and tumble, CLEAN, hockey. I despised what the NHL was like before the lockout. A game between the Ducks-Preds or Devils-Wild was an instant cure for insomnia. I thought the NHL did a great job in cleaning it up by getting rid of all the hooking, holding and obstruction. But what Walkom and his staff were able to do over the past 24 months has basically been thrown out the window by what the Ducks have been able to get away with in the first 2 games of the Finals.

In the end, the Ducks will win and Giggy and his pads will win the Conn Smyth by riding the size of his eqiupment and having a defense in front of him that uses hooking, holding and obstruction to stimy their opposition.

I will tell you this, if the officials don't take control of this series starting with Game 3, I will not renew my membership for the Centre Ice Package. I'm not wasting one more cent on a league that continuely stabs itself in the foot. Just when I thought the NHL was finally getting it right, we're slowly regressing right back to where we were.

I absolutely hated how there were two sets of rules in the past; one for the regular season and one for the playoffs. I thought last years playoffs were great in that the standard was kept right until the end. But not this year. What a shame.

[therock48880 14]

Each round has gotten progressively worse. And yet they'll call a cheap interference penalty on Datsyuk with a minute and a half left in a one goal game. That play was SO frustrating. Was it a penalty? Yes. Had it been allowed the entire game? Yes.

If Ottawa doesn't show SOMETHING they're going to get swept and then we'll all be wondering "What if"

[Guest ZDH]

It's the same old same old out there. Hudson Bay Rules Hockey. However the Wings used to have to battle through that to win their Cups. If the Sens were really the best team, they would too.

While Anaheim has been guilty of interfering in this series, they have proven in the 1st 2 games that they ARE the better team.

Why are you guys surprised? It's the same EVERY year. The refs ALWAYS throw away their whistles in the Cup Final. This year is no different. I am not saying it is right but that's just the way it is and it will never change. Ever.

[Hank 0]

It's the same old same old out there. Hudson Bay Rules Hockey. However the Wings used to have to battle through that to win their Cups. If the Sens were really the best team, they would too.

While Anaheim has been guilty of interfering in this series, they have proven in the 1st 2 games that they ARE the better team.

Why are you guys surprised? It's the same EVERY year. The refs ALWAYS throw away their whistles in the Cup Final. This year is no different. I am not saying it is right but that's just the way it is and it will never change. Ever.

I have to disagre with your last statment. I thought last years finals were called very well.

I'm sure this won't do anything but I sent in my complaint about the officiating in this years Finals to www.NHL.com. I've also sent in an email to home ice on XM radio (homeice@xmradio.ca) voicing my opinion. I know for a fact that the big wigs in the NHL office and plenty of players and management listen to that station religously. If they read your complaints on the air or get enough emails concerning this topic they will make mention of it. And we're not alone. Phil Esposito and Jim Tatti have an afternoon show and both Espo (especially Espo) and Tatti have been saying exactly what we've been saying. They're more concerned with the obstruction on the dumpins and the fact the defenseman have been allowed to hit forwards before they even get to the puck behind the goaline. That's been going on since day 1 in this years playoffs.

Voice your opinion. You never know, it might do something.

[Dynamo 0]

I'd like to know where everybody is from last round when some of us were trying to tell you this was going on to the detriment of the Red Wings and we were laughed at and called whiners.

Now you have it from William F. Scott Bowman himself.

All the obstruction, hooking, slashing, hitting from behind, and grabbing benefited the Ducks and hurt the more skillfull Red Wings. It went on all series and should've been called.

[Hank 0]

Damion Cox of the Toronto Star sums up what all of us are saying here:

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/219840

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Anaheim could easily get 20 penalties a game. But they dont , the refs are pussys and Bill Mcreary knows nothing about hockey.

Mick Magoo would call Anaheim , he did agaisnt Edmonton in the regular season. 16 penalties agaisnt the Ducks , some were negated by Edmonton penalties and fighting majors , but still.

Anaheim are a dirty cheap team that know how to get the refs on there side , and yes they are on there side. There are the most blatant penalties the ducks take , not called. Volchenkov kills perry with a clean check where he barely touches the boards at all and gets called for boarding.

Officiating is terrible. And thats it.

Damion Cox of the Toronto Star sums up what all of us are saying here:

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/219840

Damian knows what hes talking about.

[motorcitykid 42]

I hate to agree with this, but you're right. I can't believe some of the crap Anaheim has gotten away this year in the playoffs.

How many times are their dmen allowed to crosscheck people into the ice and not get a call? This was always called the last two seasons and even last years playoffs. But this year? No.

How about the blatant hook Sammy got in Game 5 prior to Datsyuk taking the illfated penalty at the end of the game? It was incredibly obvious and yet wasn't called.

The Ducks also do a terrific job in interfering with forecheckers when the puck is dumped in.

All of this was called last season, this season and in last years playoffs. What's crazy is the Ducks still receive 7 penalties a game, but in reality you could make a case for them being shorthanded the whole game. And maybe that's where the problem lies. The officials call so much against them already, they don't want to make it overboard. But in last nights game, I thought you could have easily called 20 penalties against the Ducks.

Bettman and company seriously need to look at doing everything possible to open the game up. Last nights tilt was one of the most boring exhibits of Stanley Cup Finals play I've seen since the Dead-puck era.

I don't care what anyone says, scoring chances pale in comparison to actual goals. The NHL needs to either increase the size of the nets or make the goalie equipment much, much smaller. Give the choice to the goalies so they can feel the wrath from the fans. Let them decide if they want to be responsible for making such a drastic change in the game.

And Stephen Walkom and his staff need to re-evaluate what's going on out there. The Ducks look like the Devils from '95 with all the garbage they're getting away with. Is this what the NHL wants only 2 years after the lockout?

I've always been a supporter of the new rules and what the NHL is trying to do. But the Ducks are making a mockery of the new NHL and the officials are letting them get away with it.

Call it sour grapes all you want, but I know what I'm watching out there. And it's not good hockey.

I'm both a hockey fan and a Red Wings fan. The fact Anaheim got past Detroit on sheer luck, bad officiating and cheezy goals has nothing to do with me complaining about the product we've been forced to watch in the Finals.

Yes, i'm rooting for Ottawa - they've got a great group of guys over there very well deserving of where there are today. But even if the Sens were up 2-0, i'd still be laughing at the what is on display and passing for the best the NHL has to offer. It's a joke. And we've been talking about this for how long now? No wonder barely half a million Americans tuned in to the opener.

Bettman needs to buy a f***in clue. He kisses NBC's ass, he wants bigger nets, doesn't give a s*** about true rivalries [yeah Bettman Detroit fans really, REALLY wanna see soooooo many games against Columbus and Nashville ] - on and on. He licks the nuts of any businessman wanting to buy into the league, at any cost. He DOES NOT speak or represent the true hockey fan. Remember us? He never did and never will. We don't need bigger nets, we don't need gimmicks. Hockey needs to retain SOME semblence of it's roots and allow the stars and the best of the best shine. Thank God I grew up a Wings fan, because if I lived in one of the smaller markets are supported alot less storied franchise i'd probably be watching NBA or MLB about now. The game is in trouble. Wake the hell up.

[hockeymom95 0]

Anaheim could easily get 20 penalties a game. But they dont , the refs are pussys and Bill Mcreary knows nothing about hockey.

Mick Magoo would call Anaheim , he did agaisnt Edmonton in the regular season. 16 penalties agaisnt the Ducks , some were negated by Edmonton penalties and fighting majors , but still.

Anaheim are a dirty cheap team that know how to get the refs on there side , and yes they are on there side. There are the most blatant penalties the ducks take , not called. Volchenkov kills perry with a clean check where he barely touches the boards at all and gets called for boarding.

Officiating is terrible. And thats it.

Damian knows what hes talking about.

Well the real reason the Ducks are getting away with everthing is very clear...go to gettyimages.com, editorials and look for all the Gary Bettman pictures with the celebrities in his commissioners suite at the Honda center...Snoop Dog, James Caan, Ray Liotta...

It's a real conspiracy; Bettman hates Canada, the Wings, prefers Burke over Bowman, owns Broadcom stock (or will be getting some shortly from Samueli after the Ducks win the Stanley Cup), and has given the refs a personal earpiece telling them when to call penalties.

Oh, and by the way, thank you Wings for preparing us and making us tougher so that we can win the Cup.

Is there anything else I've left out??

[Bryguy 103]

It is rather ugly and sad that this team will be rewarded with a cup

[motorcitykid 42]

Well the real reason the Ducks are getting away with everthing is very clear...go to gettyimages.com, editorials and look for all the Gary Bettman pictures with the celebrities in his commissioners suite at the Honda center...Snoop Dog, James Caan, Ray Liotta...

It's a real conspiracy; Bettman hates Canada, the Wings, prefers Burke over Bowman, owns Broadcom stock (or will be getting some shortly from Samueli after the Ducks win the Stanley Cup), and has given the refs a personal earpiece telling them when to call penalties.

Oh, and by the way, thank you Wings for preparing us and making us tougher so that we can win the Cup.

Is there anything else I've left out??

Ahh to be the standard that every other team measures themselves by and strives to be. Nice.

[Hank 0]

Well the real reason the Ducks are getting away with everthing is very clear...go to gettyimages.com, editorials and look for all the Gary Bettman pictures with the celebrities in his commissioners suite at the Honda center...Snoop Dog, James Caan, Ray Liotta...

It's a real conspiracy; Bettman hates Canada, the Wings, prefers Burke over Bowman, owns Broadcom stock (or will be getting some shortly from Samueli after the Ducks win the Stanley Cup), and has given the refs a personal earpiece telling them when to call penalties.

Oh, and by the way, thank you Wings for preparing us and making us tougher so that we can win the Cup.

Is there anything else I've left out??

I know your post is very tongue-in-cheek, and it's hard to distance yourself from your team, but hockeymom, can you seriously say that the Ducks (and Sens to a smaller extent) aren't getting away with stuff that was called all season long?

Neidermayer continuelly driving forwards into the ice with crosschecks from behind, in the crease, is now legal? Holding up forechecking forwards at the line, obstructing thier path to the puck?

Regardless of who wins the Cup, if the remaining games are this bad, I won't bother to watch them in their entirety, or at all.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I'm glad we're recognizing it and discussing it. At least it's not being overlooked by fans of the game.

I am in no way saying that this is the reason the Wings lost to Anaheim. It wasn't as bad in that series, and the Wings were more tenacious in breaking through. But it's for sure gotten worse in the finals. Like I said, 11 shots by the Sens cannot be completely attributued to lack of effort on their part. (edit:This) has a great deal to do with the trap, and obstruction.

To me it's a joke that the only obstruction penalty called against the Ducks all night on Wednesday was an offensive pick by Miller.

Not many Duck fans chiming in with responses. Wonder why?

Edited May 31, 2007 by rick zombo

[Guest ZDH]

You know I didn't give the Ducks too much credit when they eliminated us. I still feel we were the better team in that series and no one can convince me we were not. But it was OUR fault we did no take advantage of our chances. SO the Ducks win the series and the Wings go home.

However in this series vs the Sens, it's like it's the Men against the boys out there. I mean sure, the Ducks are cheating but you do what you have to do to win when it counts. If we want to blame anyone we should be blaming the refs and the league.

They always say they will call everything no matter what time of the year it is, what period, what the score is, etc. But we all know that is BS. Burke knows it himself which is why be built his team the way they did.

Lets not kid ourselves here Wings fans. If we were cheering for this team and they were the Red Wings, we would be bragging about how big, tough and skilled they are. Ducks fans have a right to be excited about their team. I like how they are playing the Sens right now and I am cheering for the Sens to win. But unless the Sens show me something when they play in Ottawa for Games 3 and 4, the Cup is going to the Ducks and they will have earned it.

What is being lost in this Cup Final is the great play of that checking like of Pahlsson/Niedermayer/Moen. I mean this line is unbelievable. And they have been this way since the playoffs started.

Sure the Ducks coasted their way through these playoffs and got lucky with the teams they played in Vancouver and Minny. However Minny is a very fast team and the Ducks checked them to a standstill. Vancouver had been the best team in the West since Christmas and had a red hot Luongo. The Ducks found a way to beat him. Remember us Wings fans not wanting ANY part of Luongo in the playoffs?

So lets give some credit to the Ducks here. Even though they were very lucky to beat the Wings (I think if Ducks fans are honest they will agree and know this to be true) they beat us 4 times in 6 games. No one cares how you win so long as you win.

Right now the Ducks are imposing their will on Ottawa. Maybe Murray gets his Big Line (The Loch Ness Monster Line, the Big line you always hear about but the one you never see) of Alfie, Heatley and Spezza away from the Pahlsson line seeing as he has the last line change. But Carlyle will just have those boys ready to hop over the boards anyway.

Pronger and Niedermayer are playing together against the Loch Ness Monster Line right now as well and they are shutting them down.

It only illustrates what us Wings fans have been talking about all season and playoffs. The need for secondary scoring. When Oleg Saprykin is your best player, you're in big trouble. Is Ottawa a 1 line team? I thought they could roll 4 lines and score? I have not seen it. Wake up Sens or you're gone. Next game is a must win for them. I think the next 2 are must wins for the Sens. But the Ducks have proven to be a very good road team in these playoffs. Unlike the Wings, the Ducks have had the killer instinct to put teams away when given the chance.

All I am saying is right now the Ducks are the best team. While the series is not over, the Ducks are winning by no accident. They really are a VERY GOOD team and deserve to be where they are right now. Ducks fans if I were you guys I would not be getting so mad when other team's fans rip your team. I'd be enjoying the fact my team is 2 wins away from winning the Cup. But hey that's just me. We're all jealous of your team right now.

[Guest micah]

I like the product I've seen on the ice in the first two Cup fainals games. Great hockey played the way I like it, I have no complaints. Officials should call games as consistently as they possibly can, but the little hooks and grabs and tugs don't bother me as a viewer/fan. The Ducks are not playing the same game the Devils did a few years back, they are an exciting team, and I'm really enjoying this series, even without the Wings.

[Hank 0]

I'm glad we're recognizing it and discussing it. At least it's not being overlooked by fans of the game.

I am in no way saying that this is the reason the Wings lost to Anaheim. It wasn't as bad in that series, and the Wings were more tenacious in breaking through. But it's for sure gotten worse in the finals. Like I said, 11 shots by the Sens cannot be completely attributued to lack of effort on their part. (edit:This) has a great deal to do with the trap, and obstruction.

To me it's a joke that the only obstruction penalty called against the Ducks all night on Wednesday was an offensive pick by Miller.

Not many Duck fans chiming in with responses. Wonder why?

Good post. I'm also of the opinion that it wasn't lack of officiating or non-calls that lost us that series. We had ample opportunity to put the Ducks away with several 5-on-3's.

But for whatever reason, the finals have been officatied poorly.

I guarentee you that Bettman and company will be looking at this. Damion Cox brought up the lack of scoring during his press conference on Monday night. Goals per game is down a whole goal compared to last years playoffs. That's an extremely significant drop and must be addressed.

Regarding where the Ducks fans are? Most have left to troll the Ottawa boards I imagine. At least hockeymom has the 'balls' (or ovaries) to stick around.

[Guest micah]

"Not many Duck fans chiming in with responses. Wonder why?"

Probably because they chewed us up and spit us out, what more is there to talk to us about? I'm not monitoring Sharks boards today, are you? Look for Ducks fans today on Ducks or Senators boards, you'll find them.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

I can't find the stats, but the Ducks have been called more for penalties in each of their series. Therefore, the way to beat them is to SCORE on you pps, which the Red Wings fell a little short on....The Sens have been awful - potent pp my a$$.

Personally, I don't like the clutching/grabbing teams, but I have to disagree that the Ducks are the worst offenders. Ever see the Wild play? The Ducks at least have a roster of talented highly skilled players. I just don't like Burke's style of rough and tumble - who cares if we take penalties. I actually don't think the Ducks need that to win. But it's working for them....and they'll be lifting the Cup soon.

[hockeymom95 0]

I know your post is very tongue-in-cheek, and it's hard to distance yourself from your team, but hockeymom, can you seriously say that the Ducks (and Sens to a smaller extent) aren't getting away with stuff that was called all season long?

Neidermayer continuelly driving forwards into the ice with crosschecks from behind, in the crease, is now legal? Holding up forechecking forwards at the line, obstructing thier path to the puck?

Regardless of who wins the Cup, if the remaining games are this bad, I won't bother to watch them in their entirety, or at all.

I think that there are blatant things and then there are fine lines. I think there are things that are tolerated by one ref that aren't tolerated by another. And I think that they get together before the game and during the game to discuss it because I've seen it happen in lower level games and I'm sure it goes on in the NHL too.

In any sport, an athlete or team looks for an advantage that may cross into the fine line territory. What Getzlaf did to Comrie was blatant. The crosschecks that you are referring to IMO are probably being seen as "shoves" at this point in the season by some refs. If the Ducks are adjusting to what's being called and what isn't, then the opposing team has the same opportunity to do the same. Look how the Senators came out last night hitting the Ducks. Wasn't really their game, but they tried.

It's the same with an umpire in baseball; sometimes the strike zone is really big and sometimes it isn't. Each umpire has their zone that's acceptable and it may even change for a particular pitcher. So the hitter has to adjust as well even if it means hitting a ball that he normally wouldn't just so he doesn't get a called strike.

Kudos to all of you for being such hockey purists. Sorry if I'm too much of a homer to just be enjoying my team's winning. All I can say is that if the Ducks win the Cup, the next time the Wings win it after them, put a big sticker over their inscribed names so you all don't have to look at it and remember that they didn't deserve it.