Ducks; A disgrace to NHL? Trend for good ol' hockey going to the

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Heres a tissue Detroit,Sincerely Chris Pronger.

wow, another enlightening post.

How about making a point or refuting an argument instead of trolling?

And I think Pronger needs to hang on to the tissue, with all the crying he does.

my favorites (paraphrased):

"I got suspended because of the canadian media."

"I have to leave Edmonton because it's my wife's fault."

Edited June 5, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[ZAMBONI 0]

wow, another enlightening post.

How about making a point or refuting an argument instead of trolling?

And I think Pronger needs to hang on to the tissue, with all the crying he does.

my favorites:

"I got suspended because of the canadian media."

"I have to leave Edmonton because it's my wife's fault."

I've been through this with you guys before. Its clear you're under the impression the ducks cheated your precious wings out of a cup. ENOUGH already,stop whining its not gonna change anything. This thread is a repeat of the entire wings/ducks series,you guys whine about obstruction and take potshots at the ducks for being thugs. Your team got handled by a better team that had the bounces go their way,plain and simple. This is good ol hockey and the ducks play it well.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I've been through this with you guys before. Its clear you're under the impression the ducks cheated your precious wings out of a cup. ENOUGH already,stop whining its not gonna change anything. This thread is a repeat of the entire wings/ducks series,you guys whine about obstruction and take potshots at the ducks for being thugs. Your team got handled by a better team that had the bounces go their way,plain and simple. This is good ol hockey and the ducks play it well.

Could you show me where I said that??

If you look earlier in another thread about the Ducks, I've said they found a way to win and beat Detroit, whether or not they were outplayed. They were the better team.

I didn't really notice it as much against Detroit, but I've been really surprised by how much interference they've been running (and getting away with) in the Finals. that's my only beef with them.

Oh, and Pronger is a d*ck.

those two things. Otherwise there's a lot I like about their team.

Here's one of my posts:

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1091994

Edited June 5, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Guest Shoreline]

wow, another enlightening post.

How about making a point or refuting an argument instead of trolling?

And I think Pronger needs to hang on to the tissue, with all the crying he does.

my favorites (paraphrased):

"I got suspended because of the canadian media."

"I have to leave Edmonton because it's my wife's fault."

Or "McAmmond should be suspended for running into my forearm/elbow".

[ZAMBONI 0]

Could you show me where I said that??

If you look earlier in another thread about the Ducks, I've said they found a way to win and beat Detroit, whether or not they were outplayed. They were the better team.

I didn't really notice it as much against Detroit, but I've been really surprised by how much interference they've been running (and getting away with) in the Finals. that's my only beef with them.

Oh, and Pronger is a d*ck.

those two things. Otherwise there's a lot I like about their team.

Here's one of my posts:

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1091994

I was referring to the site in general,but i'm not gonna be a sore winner. I like the wings team and i think they would have won the cup if they got by the ducks i thought that from the start. Pronger is actually a pretty down to earth and nice guy. Hes fit in quite well in SO-CAL we really like him here. I've talked with him a few times at Anaheim Ice and hes about as low key as they come. Come game time i can see your point the guys a beast and he will fight for the guys hes playing with. I'm not gonna condone his actions against Homer or Mcammond and i think the league got it right on his suspensions although i think mcammond lowered his head. I wasn't singling you out i just happened to quote your post,no hard feelings. The interference and obstruction gripe i think is more an argument for the officials to make,i think they've been horrible in the playoffs,not always to the ducks favor.

[Kp-Wings 3]

2004 - Pronger suspended 1 game for kicking Ville Nieminen. (kicking? How wussy can you get?)

This is the worst one. Pronger kicked with his skate blade out. That is an extremely dangerous play, and while Nieminen is a bastard at times, he certainly didn't deserve to have his life put in danger like that. While nothing serious happened thankfully, it could have been Clint Malarchuk all over again. And even what happened to Malarchuk was accidental. What Pronger did was a clear attempt to seriously injure Nieminen.

[WNYHockeyFan 0]

That's a totally irrelevant argument.

You use one hit by the Wings from years ago to refute the argument that the most penalized team in the league (who have also mastered obstruction) being in the SCF is bad for hockey?

This thread isn't about the Wings being better than anyone else. It's about the Ducks brand hockey, which for the record I'm okay with a lot of their players.

And Pronger is a dirty player. Look to the other thread where I listed all his suspensions over the years.

I don't think anyone who's been watching the Wings can seriously believe they're a bunch of angels. We have Maltby and Chelios and now Bertuzzi for chrissakes. And we used to have Hatcher, and Cicarelli, and Ulfie.

But it has nothing to do with this thread.

Here you go:

1994 - Pronger suspended 4 games for hitting Capitals forward Pat Peake in the throat with his stick. (funny thing is Burke was the one who suspended him)

1998 - Pronger suspended 4 games for slashing Phoenix's Jeremy Roenick in the helmet.

2001 - Pronger suspended 1 game for leaving the bench and instigating a fight with Kelly Buchberger.

2002 - Pronger suspended 2 games for cross checking Brenden Morrow. The cross check left Morrow bleeding near one of his eyes.

2004 - Pronger suspended 1 game for kicking Ville Nieminen. (kicking? How wussy can you get?)

2007 - Pronger suspended 1 playoff game for his double elbow to the back of Holmstrom's head.

2007 - Pronger suspended 1 playoff game for his elbow to the head of McAmmond.

So that compares to one cheapshot by a Wings player? Who was that anyway, Kozlov? Overall he's not exactly someone you would characterize as a dirty player. Personally I would've gone with Fedorov's crosscheck to the head, but your point still would've been irrelevant.

I think your missing my point.

I’ve been watching this forum for a while and have not commented until now. I get it you think Pronger is a goon. I'm not about to say that Pronger is a saint, my point is this after watching Kozlov and some of the other goons on the Red Wings over the years I find it more than a tad ironic that people are labeling the all of the Ducks goons. Not everyone but some. I mean look at the title of the thread! Seriously? Some of the players of the late 90’s early 00’s are juts as bad IMHO. When by my estimation Detroit pulled just as bad if not worse crap (note my post of the Kozlov hit on Foote).

In the end I am a Hockey fan I like good hard-hitting hockey, regardless of team. But after watching this board for about 4 weeks it is clear. There are many extremely bitter Detroit Fans saying one thing and doing another. As in multiple posts of IF the Ducks one fair and square I’d be all right with it, but (I think) they didn’t so therefore they are not deserving of respect blah, blah, blah. See say one thing and actually do another???

And don’t get me started on the Chelios non-hand shake thing that was bush league at its finest right there. Poor sportsmanship can strike anyone ask Alfie with the shot on Niedermyer.

As far as you thinking my points are irrelevant <shrug> they are about as irrelevant as the prevailing mood here that the Wings deserved better, sure every fan feels their team deserves better. But the Red Wings aren’t in the finals. Its time to buck up and accept it, My team (and teams in other sports) have/hass lost time and again and I still get up off the floor to root for them.

You want goons how about the hit on Drury on 2/22/7. Now that is far worse then the hit on MaAmmond. And I’m not even a sabers fan; or the boarding of Tallinger in Eastern Conference finals???

Not looking to troll either, just observations.

Edited June 5, 2007 by WNYHockeyFan

[Guest Shoreline]

I'm not about to say that Pronger is a saint, my point is this after watching Kozlov and some of the other goons on the Red Wings over the years I find it more than a tad ironic that people are labeling the all of the Ducks goons.

Whaaaat? Kozlov? Slava Kozlov? Goon? I can't honestly remember the last goon, or anything comparable to Pronger, that the Wings have had. Someone pointed out Fischer's suspension. That was a one time deal. Um, Chelios, Probert and Kocur would mix things up and sometimes play dirty. Shanahan would too, but was far less intimidating, and still not much of a checker. Maybe that's the best representatives? But Slava Kozlov? The guy was like Lids, Dats, and other harmless skill players. And even so, there are many who succumb to a mistake of a dirty hit. It happens.

Not everyone but some. I mean look at the title of the thread! Seriously? Some of the players of the late 90’s early 00’s are juts as bad IMHO. When by my estimation Detroit pulled just as bad if not worse crap (note my post of the Kozlov hit on Foote).

Not much different than the hit by Claude Lemieux? Twice? Yeah, people try to consider Pronger's suspensions, but Claude was suspended twice in the 1996 playoffs, one for Kozlov, the other for Draper. But yeah, let's just talk about Kozlov, who's not noted for being a cheap shot artist, unlike both Pronger and Lemieux. Next thing you know you'll be calling the Wings goons for Cheli's cheap shots as a Blackhawk.

In the end I am a Hockey fan I like good hard-hitting hockey, regardless of team. But after watching this board for about 4 weeks it is clear. There are many extremely bitter Detroit Fans saying one thing and doing another. As in multiple posts of IF the Ducks one fair and square I’d be all right with it, but (I think) they didn’t so therefore they are not deserving of respect blah, blah, blah. See say one thing and actually do another???

In the end, you should expect that Wings fans will be biased on a Wings board. Go to any board and you'll find the same. There are a lot of biased fans, and a few unbiased fans. Nevertheless, we're all hockey fans. So your complaining about something so trivial only shows your eagerness to split hairs with people.

Likewise, because the Wings have done things in the past, somehow that rights what Pronger did? No. The fact that you're willing to even compare Pronger with them, or Pronger with Alfredsson shows how much you're grasping at straws.

And don’t get me started on the Chelios non-hand shake thing that was bush league at its finest right there. Poor sportsmanship can strike anyone ask Alfie with the shot on Niedermyer.

Poor sportsmanship on both Cheli's and Alfredsson's parts is nowhere even remotely close to injuring players. Apparently you can't distinguish the difference of severity.

As far as you thinking my points are irrelevant <shrug> they are about as irrelevant as the prevailing mood here that the Wings deserved better, sure every fan feels their team deserves better. But the Red Wings aren’t in the finals. Its time to buck up and accept it, My team (and teams in other sports) have/hass lost time and again and I still get up off the floor to root for them.

You want goons how about the hit on Drury on 2/22/7. Now that is far worse then the hit on MaAmmond. And I’m not even a sabers fan; or the boarding of Tallinger in Eastern Conference finals???

Not looking to troll either, just observations.

No, but you're calling others biased yet being overly biased yourself. You're only proving that here, and pretty much peeing on your own feet.

[Guest MrSandMan]

I think your missing my point.

I’ve been watching this forum for a while and have not commented until now. I get it you think Pronger is a goon. I'm not about to say that Pronger is a saint, my point is this after watching Kozlov and some of the other goons on the Red Wings over the years I find it more than a tad ironic that people are labeling the all of the Ducks goons. Not everyone but some. I mean look at the title of the thread! Seriously? Some of the players of the late 90’s early 00’s are juts as bad IMHO. When by my estimation Detroit pulled just as bad if not worse crap (note my post of the Kozlov hit on Foote).

In the end I am a Hockey fan I like good hard-hitting hockey, regardless of team. But after watching this board for about 4 weeks it is clear. There are many extremely bitter Detroit Fans saying one thing and doing another. As in multiple posts of IF the Ducks one fair and square I’d be all right with it, but (I think) they didn’t so therefore they are not deserving of respect blah, blah, blah. See say one thing and actually do another???

And don’t get me started on the Chelios non-hand shake thing that was bush league at its finest right there. Poor sportsmanship can strike anyone ask Alfie with the shot on Niedermyer.

As far as you thinking my points are irrelevant <shrug> they are about as irrelevant as the prevailing mood here that the Wings deserved better, sure every fan feels their team deserves better. But the Red Wings aren’t in the finals. Its time to buck up and accept it, My team (and teams in other sports) have/hass lost time and again and I still get up off the floor to root for them.

You want goons how about the hit on Drury on 2/22/7. Now that is far worse then the hit on MaAmmond. And I’m not even a sabers fan; or the boarding of Tallinger in Eastern Conference finals???

Not looking to troll either, just observations.

You sound like disgruntled fan for having a non-talented goon team that practices "illegal tactics" to win games. I symphatize for you, it must suck being you.

We're fortunate that our team have the class to win and lose with honor and have the worlds best defenseman in Nick Lidstrom. Look up classy in the webster, you'll see Mr. Lidstrom's picture.

Man, I love my Wings... They are Hockey!

Ducks who? Oh, didn't they cheat their way to the SCFs and taint the Lord Stanly back in 2007?

(that's how they will be remember... if anyone remembers them at all)

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I think your missing my point.

I̢۪ve been watching this forum for a while and have not commented until now. I get it you think Pronger is a goon. I'm not about to say that Pronger is a saint, my point is this after watching Kozlov and some of the other goons on the Red Wings over the years I find it more than a tad ironic that people are labeling the all of the Ducks goons. Not everyone but some. I mean look at the title of the thread! Seriously? Some of the players of the late 90̢۪s early 00̢۪s are juts as bad IMHO. When by my estimation Detroit pulled just as bad if not worse crap (note my post of the Kozlov hit on Foote).

In the end I am a Hockey fan I like good hard-hitting hockey, regardless of team. But after watching this board for about 4 weeks it is clear. There are many extremely bitter Detroit Fans saying one thing and doing another. As in multiple posts of IF the Ducks one fair and square I̢۪d be all right with it, but (I think) they didn̢۪t so therefore they are not deserving of respect blah, blah, blah. See say one thing and actually do another???

And don̢۪t get me started on the Chelios non-hand shake thing that was bush league at its finest right there. Poor sportsmanship can strike anyone ask Alfie with the shot on Niedermyer.

As far as you thinking my points are irrelevant <shrug> they are about as irrelevant as the prevailing mood here that the Wings deserved better, sure every fan feels their team deserves better. But the Red Wings aren̢۪t in the finals. Its time to buck up and accept it, My team (and teams in other sports) have/hass lost time and again and I still get up off the floor to root for them.

You want goons how about the hit on Drury on 2/22/7. Now that is far worse then the hit on MaAmmond. And I̢۪m not even a sabers fan; or the boarding of Tallinger in Eastern Conference finals???

Not looking to troll either, just observations.

First off, if you're honest calling slava Kozlov a goon, it's hard to take anything else you say seriously. Or even believe you've seen the Wings over the years, especially that you were at the game in question (which if you were, makes me think you're also a closet Avs fan).

I don't think all your points are irrelevant. I was specifically referring to using a youtube clip of Kozlov to try and refute people saying the Ducks now are a disgrace. The two have nothing to do with each other.

I agree that there are a lot of disappointed Wings fans here who need to get over it. It's disappointing they lost to a team I think they could've beat, but overall the Wings had a great season.

as I pointed out in my last post, the Wings are far from angels. Bertuzzi, Cheli, Maltby, back to Cicarelli, Ulfie, Probert, Kocur, Vladdy... and even the great Harold Snepsts. They've all had their cheapshot moments.

Edited June 5, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[WNYHockeyFan 0]

First off, if you're honest calling slava Kozlov a goon, it's hard to take anything else you say seriously. Or even believe you've seen the Wings over the years, especially that you were at the game in question (which if you were, makes me think you're also a closet Avs fan).

I don't think all your points are irrelevant. I was specifically referring to using a youtube clip of Kozlov to try and refute people saying the Ducks now are a disgrace. The two have nothing to do with each other.

I agree that there are a lot of disappointed Wings fans here who need to get over it. It's disappointing they lost to a team I think they could've beat, but overall the Wings had a great season.

as I pointed out in my last post, the Wings are far from angels. Bertuzzi, Cheli, Maltby, back to Cicarelli, Ulfie, Probert, Kocur, Vladdy... and even the great Harold Snepsts. They've all had their cheapshot moments.

Closet Avs fan? Hardly. I thought the rivalry between the two teams was great hockey.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

We are all getting way too carried away with this Ducks being a cancer to hockey.

Do the Ducks play physical? Yes. Have they made some questionable plays? Yes. Perry’s cross-check to the head warranted more than a minor penalty last night I think. Is Pronger an idiot with his physical play? Yes. Do I support those actions? No. Are all the Ducks like that? No, and we all need to accept that and get over it.

You can also call out the Senators for diving and embellishing, last game in particular. Embellishments certainly aren’t good for the game either. Whether you think the Ducks' "normal" actions or the Senators embelishments are better/worse, you be the judge. I'd say the Ducks are worse between the two obviously, but there are plenty of other things to try to fix first over the Ducks “questionable†playing style, like consistency of officiating, calling diving and embellishments more often, and figuring out how to keep FULL NHL games on television after regulation, and a whole lot more. The Ducks play is way, way down on the bottom of that list to me.

If officials after this season agreed to call as much as possible tight to where it is almost figure skating out there, the Ducks would adapt and stop. If the refs go on the opposite end of the spectrum and let more physical play in with very few penalties, it’s not going to be just the Ducks that might play “questionableâ€Â.

Are the Ducks a major source or the main source in ruining hockey? Is hockey even completely ruined at all right now? Not even close on either question, so let’s all try to get a grip here.

And if anybody tries to take this post out of context or accuses me of not caring or not being a “real†fan or puts words into my mouth of biased or dumb towards the referees, Ducks, or who the hell knows what else because I might be thinking against popular opinion in here, save it.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I think your missing my point.

I’ve been watching this forum for a while and have not commented until now. I get it you think Pronger is a goon. I'm not about to say that Pronger is a saint, my point is this after watching Kozlov and some of the other goons on the Red Wings over the years I find it more than a tad ironic that people are labeling the all of the Ducks goons. Not everyone but some. I mean look at the title of the thread! Seriously? Some of the players of the late 90’s early 00’s are juts as bad IMHO. When by my estimation Detroit pulled just as bad if not worse crap (note my post of the Kozlov hit on Foote).

In the end I am a Hockey fan I like good hard-hitting hockey, regardless of team. But after watching this board for about 4 weeks it is clear. There are many extremely bitter Detroit Fans saying one thing and doing another. As in multiple posts of IF the Ducks one fair and square I’d be all right with it, but (I think) they didn’t so therefore they are not deserving of respect blah, blah, blah. See say one thing and actually do another???

And don’t get me started on the Chelios non-hand shake thing that was bush league at its finest right there. Poor sportsmanship can strike anyone ask Alfie with the shot on Niedermyer.

As far as you thinking my points are irrelevant <shrug> they are about as irrelevant as the prevailing mood here that the Wings deserved better, sure every fan feels their team deserves better. But the Red Wings aren’t in the finals. Its time to buck up and accept it, My team (and teams in other sports) have/hass lost time and again and I still get up off the floor to root for them.

You want goons how about the hit on Drury on 2/22/7. Now that is far worse then the hit on MaAmmond. And I’m not even a sabers fan; or the boarding of Tallinger in Eastern Conference finals???

Not looking to troll either, just observations.

Just curious here. Who is your team that you root for? The Av's?

[WNYHockeyFan 0]

Just curious here. Who is your team that you root for? The Av's?

I was waiting for this to come up, so here goes <puts on flame suit>.... Nope the Ducks since 1993. I can take it when they lose; happy when they win, and do it graciously. I don't blindly support my team and I am critical of their faults as well. I also shut my trap in years past when I had legitimate gripes about the Red Wings when they beat the Ducks. I can't ever recall calling the Red Wings a "Disgrace to Hockey" or "Not Worthy of the Cup", etc... I simply told my friends or acquaintances who like them Good luck in the next series, SCF, etc... I watched the Avs vs. Red Wings rivalry with interest, but really didn't root for either side. To me the world isn't black and white. I'm sure the Avs fans have a completely different view of the whole thing then those here. Is Claude Lemieux a POS? Sure he is. Are all the Red Wings saints, nope. Simply made for entertaining Hockey for me.

But to listen to some here (getting back on track) you would think the Ducks are out murdering little old ladies in the middle of the night; they are that reprehensible. Some here are a bit more balanced. But as I mentioned what turned me off as far as the Wings goes was the afore mentioned cheap shot on Foote... that one play turned me off to the Wings. As mentioned were there worst hits then that, yep, but one stuck in my mind for some reason, can't explain why.

I started to pay attention again to a greater degree when you guys got Hasek since he used to play for Buffalo (ya know living in western NY and all). But once I started to "hear" about how the Ducks don't deserve to win this year I was like come on guys! You want to talk not worthy: This is as bad as Chelios not shaking hands, great example to set. And if he played for Anaheim and did they same thing I'd call him out there too. Whether you like it or not Chris its called sportsmanship. If you lose do it graciously, if you win same rules apply.

Do I like the Red Wings now? Hardly, less the times they have swept the Ducks in the playoffs, or likewise beaten them. However as some of my friends who back the Red Wings have ribbed me its time to give back. I'm not doing it here as I don't think its appropriate to do so. I'd rather have a friendly dialog then a shouting match... But at the end of it the Ducks won, you shake hands, move on and gear up for next season. No team is entitled to the cup you have to earn it and want it, maybe the Ducks wanted it more this year. I'll never take anything away from the Wings in the past, they earned it, even if I didn't agree with how they got there. Its now time to reciprocate. Doing anything less looks childish.

I mean after all do we all have to like the same team? I would prefer to talk hockey with hockey people, rather then to posers on any site for that matter.

As far as being an Avs backer.... are you kidding? Why would anyone coming here admit to that????? Thats like being a San Diego Charger fan walking into Oakland and wearing his Chargers gear...

Hope I have gotten my point across. I'm not here to blindly defend the Ducks, but simply point out then in the past 10 years the Wings have hardly been the model of sportsmanship at times. The Ducks aren't perfect either, but no where near what is being leveled at them.

Edited June 6, 2007 by WNYHockeyFan

[Guest Crymson]

as I pointed out in my last post, the Wings are far from angels. Bertuzzi, Cheli, Maltby, back to Cicarelli, Ulfie, Probert, Kocur, Vladdy... and even the great Harold Snepsts. They've all had their cheapshot moments.

And this somehow makes it okay? In any event, that's not THIS YEAR's team, and we have NEVER had a blatant cheapshotter in my lifetime.

Chelios no longer cheapshots, nor does Maltby. Nor does Bertuzzi. Etc. Even if they did, it wouldn't be okay; integrity is an absolute, not a relative.

I can guarantee you if the Wings were in the Finals and played physical (I already know you are going to come back at me with BUT THE WINGS DON'T PLAY LIKE THAT, they are perfect honorable gentlemen, etc., so save it), people would be brushing it aside and defending the Wings actions saying "Them's the breaks, we got to play physical to play this game and win." Etc. etc.

Gee, another "I guarantee you that you would think like this if it were your team" comment.

Let me say to yours what I've said to all the others: WRONG.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Crymson

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

And this somehow makes it okay? In any event, that's not THIS YEAR's team, and we have NEVER had a blatant cheapshotter in my lifetime.

I find that hard to believe.

Derian Hatcher anyone? He could be called for a penalty practically every shift on the ice.

I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying that to pretend that the Wings are a bunch of angels is innacurate and hypocritical. Cheli is a wily veteran who still pushes the rules. Maltby jabs, jaws, agitates. And we've had a lot of guys who at moments have shown poor judgement.

A lot of players have moments where they've lost their cool and cheapshotted someone. It's never okay, but when it's a pattern like with Pronger that I lose respect.

I'm not one of those guys who says "keep your head up" anytime there's a blow to the head, or thinks hockey should be all about gooning it up. But I'm also not going to pretend that the Wings somehow are above all that sort of stuff because the organization is so classy.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Let me say to yours what I've said to all the others: WRONG.

So you are saying that no Red Wing fan in this nation, none at all would brush questionable plays if the Wings played this kind of game? I'm not saying that this group of players currently does, but they aren't always perfect angels on the ice either.

If you think that, then you are dead wrong then. While I can't comment on a majority of fans, I still say and strongly believe if the Wings played a kind of game like this, some fans would brush questionable plays aside.

Maybe not the smartest fans would support it, but it the feelings would be there. That is guaranteed.

So why don't you lighten up for once in your life.

Edited June 6, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[WNYHockeyFan 0]

You sound like disgruntled fan for having a non-talented goon team that practices "illegal tactics" to win games. I symphatize for you, it must suck being you.

We're fortunate that our team have the class to win and lose with honor and have the worlds best defenseman in Nick Lidstrom. Look up classy in the webster, you'll see Mr. Lidstrom's picture.

Man, I love my Wings... They are Hockey!

Ducks who? Oh, didn't they cheat their way to the SCFs and taint the Lord Stanly back in 2007?

(that's how they will be remember... if anyone remembers them at all)

Ahh... ad-hominem attacks… makes your points so much more valid to me…. Thanks for setting me straight <note sarcasm>

[Lou_Siffer 1]

And this somehow makes it okay? In any event, that's not THIS YEAR's team, and we have NEVER had a blatant cheapshotter in my lifetime.

Chelios no longer cheapshots, nor does Maltby. Nor does Bertuzzi. Etc. Even if they did, it wouldn't be okay; integrity is an absolute, not a relative.

Gee, another "I guarantee you that you would think like this if it were your team" comment.

Let me say to yours what I've said to all the others: WRONG.

Let me guess, you also think Jiri Fischer's crosscheck to Tommy Westlund's face in the '02 Finals was fair play?

ooooh you mustve forgot about that one, i guess the '02 Wings were a disgrace too eh?