Summer Hockey Camp

[redwingfan19 293]

Hockey Fight Camp

What do you guys think about parents sending their 12 year olds to a hockey fighting camp run by the Boogeyman and his brother? I don't think its any different than going to a self defence class

[Guest bullocks]

wow, that's f***ed.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I agree, its no different than a 12 year old taking martial arts. In fact, theres kids alot younger than that who partake in karate and whatnot. Its the same thing, kids who go to this camp are ones that are taking a future in hockey seriously.

Its not going to be filled with kids just looking to beat up everyone in the neighborhood rollerblade game.

[StaticWithABeat 0]

Part of me wants to say that's awesome, and part of me wants to say that's f***ed up...I guess if I were a 12 year old and got the opportunity to do that I'd be all over it, it would definitely be an interesting experience. I wonder if their final exam is to fight Derek.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Going along with my earlier point, again, you also have to factor in the parents who will be paying for these youngsters to go. Theyre not going to send their kid unless he is actually a good hockey player and theyre helping to push for a future in the sport and want him to learn all aspects of the game.

[RedRockit 0]

Going along with my earlier point, again, you also have to factor in the parents who will be paying for these youngsters to go. Theyre not going to send their kid unless he is actually a good hockey player and theyre helping to push for a future in the sport and want him to learn all aspects of the game.

Oh I dunno-- in my experience (2 children, 7 different sports from peewee to college level) no one ever went broke over-estimating the willingness of deluded sports stage parents when it comes to opening their wallets for their precious, albeit untalented, Junior!

After some initial recolil, I don't think it's altogether such a horrible idea. Fighting in hockey is a reality at the present time (and probably always will be), and it might be very wise to know how to handle yourself.

I question whether these guys are the right mentors for this lesson, however.... teenage boys are so very impressionable and impulsive, and it wouldn't take much for even a well-intentioned lesson to go badly awry when some kid puts it into practice and injures someone.

In which event, I fully expect lawsuits against the Boogs. Wonder if they've thought about their liability here?

Edited June 10, 2007 by RedRockit

[Izzy24 44]

I'd rather go to Georges Laraque school.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Oh I dunno-- in my experience (2 children, 7 different sports from peewee to college level) no one ever went broke underestimating the willingness of deluded sports stage parents when it comes to opening their wallets for their precious, albeit untalented, Junior!

After some initial recolil, I don't think it's altogether such a horrible idea. Fighting in hockey is a reality at the present time (and probably always will be), and it might be very wise to know how to handle yourself.

I question whether these guys are the right mentors for this lesson, however.... teenage boys are so very impressionable and impulsive, and it wouldn't take much for even a well-intentioned lesson to go badly awry when some kid puts it into practice and injures someone.

In which event, I fully expect lawsuits against the Boogs. Wonder if they've thought about their liability here?

It is absolutely no different than a lawsuit against a karate instructor...no liabilty. If your kid got beat up by a kid who knew karate, do you have a case against the instructor? Unless theres a law precedent i dont know about....heck no!My point about the parent thing is that no parents will send their kid to a fighting camp unless themselves and the youngin' are serious about hockey. Its not going to be filled with bad kids looking to beat everyone up. Will there be one bad apple or two, sure, but again...no different than martial arts.

[RedRockit 0]

It is absolutely no different than a lawsuit against a karate instructor...no liabilty. If your kid got beat up by a kid who knew karate, do you have a case against the instructor? Unless theres a law precedent i dont know about....heck no!My point about the parent thing is that no parents will send their kid to a fighting camp unless themselves and the youngin' are serious about hockey. Its not going to be filled with bad kids looking to beat everyone up. Will there be one bad apple or two, sure, but again...no different than martial arts.

OH! I get your point now, and you're right. Sorry for my obtustive... obtusivity... ehmm, sorry for my slooooow.

I was mostly joking about the liability thing, but thinking about it, if some kid who had attended the BooCamp pulled a Bert on some hapless Scott Moore-type, well... *shrug* ... it's a litigious world we live in, could happen the Boogs would find themselves on the wrong end of a lawsuit. Legally, it can be argued that hockey would be a different case than martial arts or Golden Gloves, in that fighting is nominally not allowed in hockey (i.e., penalized).

[Lou_Siffer 1]

OH! I get your point now, and you're right. Sorry for my obtustive... obtusivity... ehmm, sorry for my slooooow.

I was mostly joking about the liability thing, but thinking about it, if some kid who had attended the BooCamp pulled a Bert on some hapless Scott Moore-type, well... *shrug* ... it's a litigious world we live in, could happen the Boogs would find themselves on the wrong end of a lawsuit. Legally, it can be argued that hockey would be a different case than martial arts or Golden Gloves, in that fighting is nominally not allowed in hockey (i.e., penalized).

Are you baseball fan? Just asking cause you typed Scott Moore (former Tiger/current Cubs minor league baseball player) instead of Steve Moore. A mistake ive caught myself making as well a few times in the past...so im curious! It would seem only a Tigers or Cubs fan could make that exact mistake!

Fighting is still "allowed" in hockey though even though its a penalty, and its synonymous with being part of the game. Judge Judy would throw that case out

[Dabura 12,206]

Fighting camp? Eh...no comment.

Checking camps, on the other hand, are definitely an excellent investment -- provided they're done the right way, of course.

[RedRockit 0]

Are you baseball fan? Just asking cause you typed Scott Moore (former Tiger/current Cubs minor league baseball player) instead of Steve Moore. A mistake ive caught myself making as well a few times in the past...so im curious! It would seem only a Tigers or Cubs fan could make that exact mistake!

Fighting is still "allowed" in hockey though even though its a penalty, and its synonymous with being part of the game. Judge Judy would throw that case out

ROFL, I can't believe I did that! Yeah, I do follow Tigers and Indians baseball, and watch Cubs games a lot recently because of the SuperStation (I reduced my cable down to the bare min a couple of months ago, in a fiscal downsizing). But I think I said Scott Moore only because I know a Scott Moore...

I agree, the case would get thrown out, but trust me, there are far stupider cases than the one I posited being brought to court every day. But then, I live in Ohio, and the legal system here is muffed up to the max re nuisance lawsuits (don't get me started on the malpractice laws here-- doctors are fleeing in droves to Indiana and Michigan, RockitSon's sports doctor, for one: happily, he fixed RockitSon first!)

[redwingfan19 293]

Fighting camp? Eh...no comment.

Checking camps, on the other hand, are definitely an excellent investment -- provided they're done the right way, of course.

Checking camps are mandatory here. I rember I had to a camp before my Peewee year. They do help alot so I don't see why a afight camp wouldn't do the same thing .

[vangvace 12]

I like it. I think it'll help instill the right way to go about it as well. Teach'em the right way so they don't learn it wrong.

I also think it could be a good camp for the more point oriented kids as well so they know how to tie-up somebody when they'ra in over their head.

[Zetter is Better 0]

I'd rather go to Georges Laraque school.

I'd rather go to the Todd Fedoruk school..................................

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I agree, its no different than a 12 year old taking martial arts. In fact, theres kids alot younger than that who partake in karate and whatnot. Its the same thing, kids who go to this camp are ones that are taking a future in hockey seriously.

Its not going to be filled with kids just looking to beat up everyone in the neighborhood rollerblade game.

Actually I think it's pretty different than a kid taking martial arts. yes martial arts is ultimately about fighting or self defense, but it mostly promotes discipline, physical fitness. In most respectable dojos kids have to learn the katas, learn the history of the martial art, and take tests to progress to the next level.

Also, martial arts, even in competitions for kids that age, do not allow things like blows to the head. Whereas this class is teaching how to fight within the context of another sport. And it's a style of fighting that's all about blows to the head with no protective headgear.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Actually I think it's pretty different than a kid taking martial arts. yes martial arts is ultimately about fighting or self defense, but it mostly promotes discipline, physical fitness. In most respectable dojos kids have to learn the katas, learn the history of the martial art, and take tests to progress to the next level.

Also, martial arts, even in competitions for kids that age, do not allow things like blows to the head. Whereas this class is teaching how to fight within the context of another sport. And it's a style of fighting that's all about blows to the head with no protective headgear.

Good point, but its not like these kids will actually be fighting and hitting each other in the head at the camp (at least i wouldnt think). Its about teaching them how to fight and defend themselveswhen the situation arises. Fighting is permitted in the sport, so whats wrong with teaching kids on how not to get mangled? I will admit the age thing is a little low, 14 and up might make it look a little better.

[Heaton 1]

I like the idea without actually reading the article, my main problem with a lot of fighters these days like Fedoruk is that they don't actually know how to fight and keep themselves safe at the same time. It's a lost art these days and if more kids learned how to do it the right way before they started fighting at higher levels it could save a lot medical anguish.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Good point, but its not like these kids will actually be fighting and hitting each other in the head at the camp (at least i wouldnt think). Its about teaching them how to fight and defend themselveswhen the situation arises. Fighting is permitted in the sport, so whats wrong with teaching kids on how not to get mangled? I will admit the age thing is a little low, 14 and up might make it look a little better.

I guess it's permitted. It is against the rules, but is fairly lightly penalized at the NHL level. I'm guessing it's punished much more harshly in a lot of the leagues most 12-18 year olds play in.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want fighting out of hockey, but we're talking about kids here.

It's kinda like teaching them the best way to charge the mound in baseball, or take someone out with an illegal slide tackle in soccer.

[Hank 0]

I think this is a disgusting concept. These are 12 year olds here! If your kid is fighting in hockey when he's 12 then there's something seriously wrong with the league they play in. It also says a lot about the people that like to watch 12 year olds fight in hockey.

And there's a big difference between teaching them self defense compared to this. Martial Arts is more than just teaching someone how to land a proper round house kick to someones solar plexis. It teaches discipline and self control as well as physical fitness. And it also serves a purpose to protect individuals when they're faced with a dangerous situation.

Getting in a fight in hockey is a lot different than confronting some drunk a'hole in a parking lot or alley.

I know I'll get flamed for saying all of this, but I find this whole concept disgusting. Even Tiger Williams has said anyone that fights in hockey, without being paid for it, is an idiot. I wonder what he'd think about parents sending their 12 year old CHILDREN off to learn how to fight on ice.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Hank

[redwingfan19 293]

I guess it's permitted. It is against the rules, but is fairly lightly penalized at the NHL level. I'm guessing it's punished much more harshly in a lot of the leagues most 12-18 year olds play in.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want fighting out of hockey, but we're talking about kids here.

It's kinda like teaching them the best way to charge the mound in baseball, or take someone out with an illegal slide tackle in soccer.

We used to get kicked out for the game if it happened before the third period. If it happened in the third or the end of the game we got suspended for the next game. It might be harsher now but I played within the "Old Rules" where it was goon hockey. needless to say I missed a few games in my time

[drwscc 212]

I think that since fighting is part of the game, that there should absolutely be a forum where kids can learn it. As long as it's couched in the same way martial arts are (you don't want to fight, but if you absolutely have to, here's how to wreck shop) I don't see a problem with it. I seriously doubt the Boogard brothers are in there saying "OK. So, the next game you're in, cheapshot someone so that the other team will send someone after you. Then, punch the guy like this..."

Like someone above said, it's better that all players learn how to fight the proper way, so you don't have so many injuries. Teach them how to defend themselves.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I agree, its no different than a 12 year old taking martial arts. In fact, theres kids alot younger than that who partake in karate and whatnot. Its the same thing, kids who go to this camp are ones that are taking a future in hockey seriously.

Its not going to be filled with kids just looking to beat up everyone in the neighborhood rollerblade game.

Lou, you have no idea what kind of kids are going to this camp and frankly, 12 year olds learning how to fight in a hockey game is screwed up beyond comprehension. At 12 they should be working on their skating, footwork, puck control, not about how to tie a guy up and punch him in the face.

As for it being like martial arts, you couldn't be more wrong. I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and have also studied Tang Soo Do, Kem Po and a little Ju Jitsu. I've studied under 9th Dan Grand Masters and trained with kids who are 8, 9, 10 years old. There is absolutely nothing in common between hockey fighting and the martial arts. I can't speak for all martial arts but my experiences and training were all about discipline and NOT fighting. Studying martial arts is about improving yourself mentally and spiritually, and not just physically. Self defense is the key aspect of the "fight" related portion of your training. I suppose you're learning some self defense when you take a hockey fight camp like Boogard's but that's not the intent. The intent isn't to teach you to tie somebody up and drag them to the ice. This freaking thing sounds more like how to not only do that but to also instigate and cause trouble. Maybe its not but I highly doubt it when its coming from an enforcer. s*** like UFC and mixed martial arts glorifies the fighting aspect of martial arts but anybody who has seriously trained and studied martial arts knows that the fighting part of it is about 5% of what you're there for.

Martial arts has nothing to do with hockey fighting and the idea that there are parents who'd send their kids to something like this makes me want to puke. And that's saying alot because I love hockey fights and I loved competing in tournaments when I was studying martial arts. But these 2 things couldn't be further apart.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Actually I think it's pretty different than a kid taking martial arts. yes martial arts is ultimately about fighting or self defense, but it mostly promotes discipline, physical fitness. In most respectable dojos kids have to learn the katas, learn the history of the martial art, and take tests to progress to the next level.

Also, martial arts, even in competitions for kids that age, do not allow things like blows to the head. Whereas this class is teaching how to fight within the context of another sport. And it's a style of fighting that's all about blows to the head with no protective headgear.

Harold, tournament rules vary depending upon the style mostly and under what association its being held. For Tae Kwon Do you could strike an opponent to the face or head with any kick you wanted but not with a punch. But I studied some Kempo and there you could punch and backfist anybody to the mush as much as you wanted. You're right about the self defense and making yourself better part and the study of the sport. For Tae Kwon Do we had to learn everything in Korean. You had to know everything from what your uniform was called to what a low block or skipping side kick was called. Lucky for me my mom's South Korean!

To further my point, a typical week in my Tae Kwon Do school, which I will proudly boast is one of the best in the state of Ohio, whose founder has been on the cover of and written about in the Tae Kwon Do times which you can find in nearly any bookstore was spent mostly working on your physical fitness and perfecting your techniques and the study of forms. Roughly 1 hour, 1 day a week was spent actually combating another living person. Goes to show that the fighting part of it is at the bottom of the priority list of what you're supposed to be learning while you're there.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Gordie and Harold, after reading both your guys' posts and thinking about it a little more...I think i may have been too quick to instinctively back Boogaard. I do think the idea of a camp is a good one, but yeah, 12 is most definitely too young for this. Even 14 probably is as well.