anyone interested in Raycroft?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

GAA of 1.6/1.7?! That's laughable. You should really take a look at stats before you post something like that. Twice in Dom's career he has had a GAA of less than 2.00. 93-94 with a 1.95, and 98-99 with a 1.87. Dom's best GAA since leaving Buffalo was this past season, a 2.05.

Yeah, those GAA's are really terrible there.

*shrugs*

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Yeah, those GAA's are really terrible there.

*shrugs*

Never said they weren't good number. Just pointing out how far off you were with your 1.6/1.7 guestimate.

[Guest DetroitIan]

I will never, ever understand the bad bias towards Osgood in here by many members.

It has absolutely nothing to do with any "bad bias" towards Ozzie. Its just a simple fact, Osgood is not and will never be our starter again. And please, don't spout off accomplishments Osgood has from 10 seasons ago. This is 2007. And in 2007 Chris Osgood is a mediocre goaltender. I would be horrified if he was our designated starter for the season. There is a reason that he backs up 40+ year old Hasek. Its because he isnt good enough to take the job over Dom. And think about all those teams out there with starting goalies that are just as good if not better then Dom. Why would we possibly want someone as a starter that isnt even good enough to start now? Wouldnt it make the most sense to want a goaltender that is on Hasek's level atleast? It would be a total down-grade to have Ozzie start. And if you don't think thats correct, then you must be delusional or something. Cause that is definitely a fact.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I would be horrified if he was our designated starter for the season.

Horrified? Don't be so dramatic.

There is a reason that he backs up 40+ year old Hasek. Its because he isnt good enough to take the job over Dom. And think about all those teams out there with starting goalies that are just as good if not better then Dom.

Dominik Hasek has proven at 40+ years old with Ottawa and Detroit that he is still an extremely capable starting goalie and is better than a lot of other options.

It would be a total down-grade to have Ozzie start.

Largely because the other goalie on the Wings is Hasek. If Hasek retired and Jimmy Howard were the other option, I'd start Osgood more often than not.

Cause that is definitely a fact.

No, that is just your strong opinion.

Edited June 24, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[Guest DetroitIan]

Im just saying. It seams like the more smart move(especially for here In Detroit) to have a goaltender that is on Hasek's level atleast. Now you are right about the fact that if Jimmy was our only other option, then yeah maybe it would be the smarter move to start Ozzie. But It seams to me that it would make the most sense to get a highly skilled goaltender to replace a highly skilled goaltender. We would be a huge step behind to have Osgood start all season. Right now we are even with alot of teams on how good our starting netminder is. But if we down-graded to Ozzie, all those teams would already be a step ahead of us. You gotta admit that.

Edited June 24, 2007 by DetroitIan

[puckloo39 5,686]

No way. That's nuts. Simply having a guy like Marty or Luongo who will play 75+ games gives you the best tandom in the league. I don't care if you pull Jim Carey out of retirement to back either of those guys up. NO question the 'Nucks, and Devils are better suited in goal than Detroit.

What's debatable?

Did you read the entire discussion? Or did you just read one or two posts, and make a knee-jerk reaction?

We weren't talking about who the Wings should try to get. We were talking about the best goaltending tandom in the league. So why would you even bring that up?

Obviously you read only what you want to see. I said I didn't blame him for the loss, merely that he needed to be better. That's all. Yeah, he was the reason we were in a couple of game. But he was also the reason we were out of a couple of games. When I spoke of 'soft goals', I wasn't referring to the playoffs, that's why I didn't say, 'in the playoffs...'. Dom was not very good in the regular season. He let in a lot of soft goals.

Contratry to your thoughts about me, I am in favor of signing Dom, and keeping Ozzie as his back up for one more year. It is the Wings best goaltending option. I will complain. But it won't be about not having Luongo or Marty. It will be about Hasek playing like an idiot, and wandering from his net. It won't be about how I wish the Wings would have traded for Vokoun, it will be about Dom letting in soft goals that should be stopped. I don't care how many tough saves you make, as a player, when you see your goaltender let in a softie, it takes the life out of you. If you've ever played, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Being a goaltender in Detroit is the second toughest place to be a goaltender. We expect greatness, and when we don't get it, we get upset. It's our right as fans. We are paying the salaries. Something I will never understand? How you defend Hasek to no end, how he can do no wrong. Wandering is just 'part of his game'. You have this love affair with Dom. He WAS great, he WAS a top 3 goaltender. He is just a shell of what he used to be, that is undeniable.

Try actually reading my posts before you assume what I think or make judgements about me. Complaining about Hasek not being very good is just plain silly. He was good enough to get the Wings to where they hadn't been since he left in 2001, wasn't he? Debate that, if you can.

I don't defend Dom (he doesn't need it) unless someone is just posting nonsense. Then, I say something. "Hasek plays like an idiot." Oh, my God. Whatever... I love it when posters expound on the goals Hasek should have stopped and how horrible he is, when there's no way any of us will ever actually understand how difficult it is to do what he and Ozzie do -- at the level they do it. It's especially amusing when all the evidence and stats show that Hasek was among the top three goalies in the league. But, but.... he's horrible!!

Far from being a negative factor for the Wings, Dom is the one who gives them confidence. All you have to do is actually read the comments from the Wings themselves to see what I am talking about. He does have his moments, when he makes mistakes. Dom also admits it, unlike most goalies in the NHL. I can't picture Curtis Joseph, for example, ever admitting that he made a mistake. Dom also is there to cover up the mistakes of his teammates, which happen roughly 10 times to his 1 on-ice error.

But if you're determined to dislike Dom and see only the negatives, whether it's him or any other player -- all you're going to see is what you want to see. That's fine. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you. And you don't need to attack me just because I don't agree with you.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

First, when was the last season that Ozzie didn't have an injury that cost him a decent chunk of time? He isn't durable enough to handle the starting role. He was pretty solid at one point in his career, but not any longer.

In the past 3 seasons, Ozzie has only started 120 games, 53 in the last 2. Over that same time period, Raycroft has started 159, with 102 the past 2 seasons.

Raycroft is younger, more of a work horse, and has proven in recent years that he is a starter in this league. I don't think anyone can really argue that.

Osgood isn't a starter any longer. He couldn't even wrestle the starting job from Manny. And I think most people would agree that Raycroft is better than Manny.

Hasek needed to play better in the playoffs this year. I don't care what anyone says, he didn't play well enough. I'm not blaming him for the loss. But he didn't play great. fact is he did let in a lot of soft goals this year. He was good, and there were flashes of greatness. But not enough.

Let me put it this way. You wouldn't take Luongo or Marty and any combo of our young goalies or Dom and Ozzie?

I couldn't disagree with a post more and am baffled that you really think Raycroft is better than Ozzie.

When Andrew accomplishes what Ozzie has done in his career then you can compare the two. You're comparing a league veteran that has been around for 13 years to Andrew who's been playing for what 3-4 seasons? Even so..Raycroft's stat and play have been way below average in the last couple seasons. Aside from winning the Calder, he's not done a thing.

As for Ozzie not being able to get the job from Manny? You obviously forgot how right as the season was starting Ozzie got injured which by default made Manny the starter. Ozzie came back in late November, played really well, but at the time Manny was playing so good that they didn't want to take him out and didn't think it would be fair. Even though it was suppose to be a 'friendly competition' between the two to see who would be #1.

Around February Manny got injured. I believe it was his knee from when Barnaby fell on him awkwardly? Ozzie got a chance to take over and started playing GREAT hockey. So great that the media, coaches, etc.. were saying that he could have a chance to take the job from Manny. Manny 'heard' this and came back REALLY early because he didn't want Oz getting the starting job. Babs knew that Manny's knee was really banged up and that he may be coming back prematurely but Manny ensured him that he was fine. Just because he wanted SO badly for Ozzie not to get the job because he knew it was about to happen due to Oz starting to get into his groove and play so well.

Manny came back early, and took the job away from Ozzie just like that and for what reason? Because he was precious Manny Legace that everyone loved so much. As soon as Ozzie started to play great and get on a roll they took the damn job from him. Let's just say he never got a fair shot even when he proved he could handle the job.

My point in all this? Ozzie is MORE than capable of being a starting goaltender again. Be it for the Wings and a lot of teams out there.

He played great on a NYI team that previous to him coming there they hadn't been in the playoffs in the last decade. Ozzie wasn't named their MVP that year for nothing. Taking a team that was the last place team in the league to the playoffs surely means something.

And the Blues? Ozzie comes in there and in his first three games gets TWO shutouts. Near the last two months of the season the Blues players start dropping like flies. Macinnis gets hurt, Pronger is out, Jackman is out, Weight and Tkachuk aren't showing up and the team is just out of sync. They had NO business getting into the playoffs, but one guy on the team literally dragged them and got them into the 8th spot. That being Chris Osgood. He played out of his mind to get them their and they did. I remember how Pronger, Weight, etc kept saying that Ozzie was their leader on the team. That if it wasn't for him they'd be nowhere near the playoffs. He was their best player. Especially when their top 3 D were all battling injuries. So tell me again how it is that Ozzie can't handle a starting job? Ozzie plays his BEST when under pressure, and when he knows he has to come up big for his team(s). He doesn't give a crap when so called fans trash him and say he isn't good enough. He'll just prove 'em wrong like he does everytime.

As for the best tandem in the league. Yep. It's most definitely Dom and Ozzie. If we were talking about a one man show then yeah bring in Luongo, and Marty. But this is about the best duo as in when both goaltenders are very good. Not where one is great *Marty, and Roberto* and the other is a no name that no one ever gets to see play.

Btw, Dom was great in the playoffs. Couldn't ask for anything more out of your goaltender.

Edited June 24, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Try actually reading my posts before you assume what I think or make judgements about me. Complaining about Hasek not being very good is just plain silly. He was good enough to get the Wings to where they hadn't been since he left in 2001, wasn't he? Debate that, if you can.

I don't defend Dom (he doesn't need it) unless someone is just posting nonsense. Then, I say something. "Hasek plays like an idiot." Oh, my God. Whatever... I love it when posters expound on the goals Hasek should have stopped and how horrible he is, when there's no way any of us will ever actually understand how difficult it is to do what he and Ozzie do -- at the level they do it. It's especially amusing when all the evidence and stats show that Hasek was among the top three goalies in the league. But, but.... he's horrible!! Far from being a negative factor for the Wings, Dom is the one who gives them confidence. All you have to do is actually read the comments from the Wings themselves to see what I am talking about. He does have his moments, when he makes mistakes. Dom also admits it, unlike most goalies in the NHL. I can't picture Curtis Joseph, for example, ever admitting that he made a mistake. Dom also is there to cover up the mistakes of his teammates, which happen roughly 10 times to his 1 on-ice error.

But if you're determined to dislike Dom and see only the negatives, whether it's him or any other player -- all you're going to see is what you want to see. That's fine. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you. And you don't need to attack me just because I don't agree with you.

You totally misinterpeted what I said. Let me rephrase for you.

When I complain about Hasek, WHEN, it won't be 'I think Holland should have traded or signed so-and-so!'. It will be because he wanders from his net too much, which he admits to. Or because he lets in a soft goal, or has a bad game, which he admits to.

I'm not sure what you are talking about in the first paragraph, so if you would fill me in, that'd be sweet.

I never said Dom wasn't good in this years playoffs, only that he needed to be better. If you want to give him as much credit to say he got the Wings further than they had been since '01, then you have to also blame him for not getting them further than he did. It's a double-edged sword.

On occasion, I will say Dom is horrible, blah blah blah. It's usually when I get into a heated discussion, or after he blows a game for the Wings. But more often than not, I give him credit when it's due. On the flip side, I will rag on him when it's due. Regardless, I know that I am not as good as he is, nor could I even dream of it. For that matter, you aren't either. So if you argue that someone shouldn't be able to say that 'Dom should have had that one', conversely you shouldn't be able to say 'Dom is so great, he makes huge saves'. Why? Because using your line of logic, we don't know what it's like to play at that level, so we cannot comment on it.

I don't care who is in net. It could be the ghost of Vezina, Turco, Luongo, Marty, or, yes even Dom. When he lets in a bad goal, it kills the morale of a team. That's just how it works. Regardless of what the guys say in teh papers, what they feel at that moment, and for some time after it is different. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you've never played a game that meant anything to you.

It's funny that you say all I see in Dom is negatives. In reality, you are reading my posts, and just pulling out the negative things I've said about Dom. You are the one who is jumping all over the Hasek things in what I originally wrote, attacking that in a sense. If you had read what was said, you would realize I wasn't dogging Dom, just making some legit points.

I couldn't disagree with a post more and am baffled that you really think Raycroft is better than Ozzie.

When Andrew accomplishes what Ozzie has done in his career then you can compare the two. You're comparing a league veteran that has been around for 13 years to Andrew who's been playing for what 3-4 seasons? Even so..Raycroft's stat and play have been way below average in the last couple seasons. Aside from winning the Calder, he's not done a thing.

As for Ozzie not being able to get the job from Manny? You obviously forgot how right as the season was starting Ozzie got injured which by default made Manny the starter. Ozzie came back in late November, played really well, but at the time Manny was playing so good that they didn't want to take him out and didn't think it would be fair. Even though it was suppose to be a 'friendly competition' between the two to see who would be #1.

Around February Manny got injured. I believe it was his knee from when Barnaby fell on him awkwardly? Ozzie got a chance to take over and started playing GREAT hockey. So great that the media, coaches, etc.. were saying that he could have a chance to take the job from Manny. Manny 'heard' this and came back REALLY early because he didn't want Oz getting the starting job. Babs knew that Manny's knee was really banged up and that he may be coming back prematurely but Manny ensured him that he was fine. Just because he wanted SO badly for Ozzie not to get the job because he knew it was about to happen due to Oz starting to get into his groove and play so well.

Manny came back early, and took the job away from Ozzie just like that and for what reason? Because he was precious Manny Legace that everyone loved so much. As soon as Ozzie started to play great and get on a roll they took the damn job from him. Let's just say he never got a fair shot even when he proved he could handle the job.

My point in all this? Ozzie is MORE than capable of being a starting goaltender again. Be it for the Wings and a lot of teams out there.

He played great on a NYI team that previous to him coming there they hadn't been in the playoffs in the last decade. Ozzie wasn't named their MVP that year for nothing. Taking a team that was the last place team in the league to the playoffs surely means something.

And the Blues? Ozzie comes in there and in his first three games gets TWO shutouts. Near the last two months of the season the Blues players start dropping like flies. Macinnis gets hurt, Pronger is out, Jackman is out, Weight and Tkachuk aren't showing up and the team is just out of sync. They had NO business getting into the playoffs, but one guy on the team literally dragged them and got them into the 8th spot. That being Chris Osgood. He played out of his mind to get them their and they did. I remember how Pronger, Weight, etc kept saying that Ozzie was their leader on the team. That if it wasn't for him they'd be nowhere near the playoffs. He was their best player. Especially when their top 3 D were all battling injuries. So tell me again how it is that Ozzie can't handle a starting job? Ozzie plays his BEST when under pressure, and when he knows he has to come up big for his team(s). He doesn't give a crap when so called fans trash him and say he isn't good enough. He'll just prove 'em wrong like he does everytime.

As for the best tandem in the league. Yep. It's most definitely Dom and Ozzie. If we were talking about a one man show then yeah bring in Luongo, and Marty. But this is about the best duo as in when both goaltenders are very good. Not where one is great *Marty, and Roberto* and the other is a no name that no one ever gets to see play.

Btw, Dom was great in the playoffs. Couldn't ask for anything more out of your goaltender.

You should stop living in the past. I don't care what Ozzie has done in the past, it means NOTHING right now. I don't care if Ozzie had an 82 game shutout streak, he isn't that good anymore. I don't see how you can think he is better than Raycroft. I'm not saying Raycroft is a badass, or even the next big thing. Merely that he is better TODAY than Ozzie.

All those things you mentioned about Ozzie are meaningless, he isn't the same player. Much like RIGHT NOW Malts is a better player than Stevie. Plain and simple.

Best tandom in the league is a joke. No way you could even come close. When you talk goaltending, in this senario it's a one two punch. Well, look at how many games Luongo and Marty play. My point? THEY ARE A ONE TWO PUNCH ALL ALONE. THEY DON'T REALLY NEED A BACKUP!

Yes, more can be asked of Dom. Had the Wings won the Cup, he wouldn't have been a Conn Smythe thought. He could have played better, and the Wings needed him to.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Best tandom in the league is a joke. No way you could even come close. When you talk goaltending, in this senario it's a one two punch. Well, look at how many games Luongo and Marty play. My point? THEY ARE A ONE TWO PUNCH ALL ALONE. THEY DON'T REALLY NEED A BACKUP!

Unless there is a body double or evil twin of Brodeur or Luongo, then the goalie isn't a one-two punch. It's a one punch and that's it.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Unless there is a body double or evil twin of Brodeur or Luongo, then the goalie isn't a one-two punch. It's a one punch and that's it.

Well, when one punch knocks you out, when any other two just leave you dizzy....

[puckloo39 5,686]

Unless there is a body double or evil twin of Brodeur or Luongo, then the goalie isn't a one-two punch. It's a one punch and that's it.

Psst... SWF? Just walk away quietly... it's better that way. Trust me on this one.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

double post

Edited June 24, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[Guest DetroitIan]

You should stop living in the past. I don't care what Ozzie has done in the past, it means NOTHING right now.

Exactly. This isnt the 97 season anymore. Its 2007. And in 2007. I would take Raycroft over Ozzie any day of the week. If you think a Dom/Ozzie tandum is great. Think how great it would be to have Hasek AND Raycroft. Sad to say, but alot of ppl here are total homers. Try looking at it objectively. There is a reason why Osgood isnt our starter. Hello?? Whats not to get? Osgood isnt our starter because he isnt as good as Hasek. Think about the SEVERAL teams that have goalies as good as Dom. How would it possibly make any sense to want someone who clearly ISNT AS GOOD, to take over the starting job. We would be behind half the teams in the league when it comes to a starting goalie. Osgood was once a reliable starting goaltender. Times have changed. He is absolutely not what he once was. Which is why we have Hasek as the starter and Osgood as the backup. Does that not compute or what? There is a reason he isnt our starter. HE ISNT GOOD ENOUGH. My God. This isnt rocket science people. Come on.

Edited June 24, 2007 by DetroitIan

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

You should stop living in the past. I don't care what Ozzie has done in the past, it means NOTHING right now. I don't care if Ozzie had an 82 game shutout streak, he isn't that good anymore. I don't see how you can think he is better than Raycroft. I'm not saying Raycroft is a badass, or even the next big thing. Merely that he is better TODAY than Ozzie.

All those things you mentioned about Ozzie are meaningless, he isn't the same player. Much like RIGHT NOW Malts is a better player than Stevie. Plain and simple.

Best tandom in the league is a joke. No way you could even come close. When you talk goaltending, in this senario it's a one two punch. Well, look at how many games Luongo and Marty play. My point? THEY ARE A ONE TWO PUNCH ALL ALONE. THEY DON'T REALLY NEED A BACKUP!

Yes, more can be asked of Dom. Had the Wings won the Cup, he wouldn't have been a Conn Smythe thought. He could have played better, and the Wings needed him to.

Do you not understand what the word TANDEM means? It means BOTH the starter and 'back up' so stop with your whole one man show. No one asked who the best starting goaltender was. We are talking about tandems, in which Dom and Ozzie take the cake.

You're really trashing Dom eh? I'm not even a big fan of his, but I at least recognize and admit how great he was in the playoffs. He stepped up his game each and everytime the Wings needed him to. You've got to be the only Wings fan I know that actually thinks he didn't play good enough..but I guess everyone sees things differently!

BTW, I'm not living in the past. I believe in Oz just as much as I did when he was a starter and I STILL think he'd get the job done now in the present.Also, the fact that you just said you wouldn't care if Ozzie got an 82 streak with shutouts just tells me enough right there.

There's really no point in conversing with you.

Edited June 24, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[puckloo39 5,686]

BTW, I'm not living in the past. I believe in Oz just as much as I did when he was a starter and I STILL think he'd get the job done now in the present.Also, the fact that you just said you wouldn't care if Ozzie got an 82 streak with shutouts just tells me enough right there.

There's really no point in conversing with you.

HC? want to take a walk with me and SWF? We're clearly not intelligent enough to agree with this poster, so you may be wasting your time here. I don't know nothin' about no rocket surgery or brain science.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Exactly. This isnt the 97 season anymore. Its 2007. And in 2007. I would take Raycroft over Ozzie any day of the week. If you think a Dom/Ozzie tandum is great. Think how great it would be to have Hasek AND Raycroft. Sad to say, but alot of ppl here are total homers. Try looking at it objectively. There is a reason why Osgood isnt our starter. Hello?? Whats not to get? Osgood isnt our starter because he isnt as good as Hasek. Think about the SEVERAL teams that have goalies as good as Dom. How would it possibly make any sense to want someone who clearly ISNT AS GOOD, to take over the starting job. We would be behind half the teams in the league when it comes to a starting goalie. Osgood was once a reliable starting goaltender. Times have changed. He is absolutely not what he once was. Which is why we have Hasek as the starter and Osgood as the backup. Does that not compute or what? There is a reason he isnt our starter. HE ISNT GOOD ENOUGH. My God. This is rocket science people. Come on.

Please point out to me where I said that Ozzie would take over Dom's place and be above him? I didn't say that at all. I said IF Dom had retired, the Wings would have no problem with Ozzie as starter in which Ken Holland himself has stated that.

I'm done with this topic. Peace.

HC? want to take a walk with me and SWF? We're clearly not intelligent enough to agree with this poster, so you may be wasting your time here. I don't know nothin' about no rocket surgery or brain science.

A walk sounds great. Can we get some ice cream? I need something to cool me down.

Edited June 24, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

double post

I didn't say I didn't care if he went on an 82 game shutout streak. I said 'if he had and 82 game shutout streak'. Had, meaning in the past. I'll rephrase for you.

I don't care if, in 97-98, Osgood went on an 82 game shutout streak. He isn't the same goalie he was then, he isn't that good anymore. Regardless of the shutout streak. My point is, the past means nothing. Focus on the hear and now. Osgood is not even equal to Raycroft. Raycroft is better.

[puckloo39 5,686]

I'm done with this topic. Peace.

A walk sounds great. Can we get some ice cream? I need something to cool me down.

Baskin-Robbins is on me, kiddo.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Baskin-Robbins is on me, kiddo.

You are the best. <3

Just like Dom and Ozzie.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

All you Hasek haters will be eating your words next June when hes hoisting the cup in downtown Detroit and were all celebrating.

But you want to say hes only a top 15 goalie in the league which is a joke , He's top 5 easily.

He loves it when people underestimate him , back when he wasent picked for the All Star game , the 4 games leading up the the All Star game he had 4 wins , 2 shutouts and a GAA of just above 1 , he thrives on advirsty.

Like I said , when we win the cup and its a direct result of Dom being THE DOMINATOR , you'll be eating your words.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Please point out to me where I said that Ozzie would take over Dom's place and be above him?

No no, I never said you said that. In fact the post wasnt necassarily to you. It was just for anyone in general. And Im not trying to sound mean here, but Kenny has never stated that he would put Ozzie in as a starter. Please provide a link where he ever said that. Cause I know he didnt.Im just saying girlie, look at the facts. Hasek is our starter why? Cause he's better than Osgood. And not just slightly better. So how can anyone justify Osgood being a great starter for us? Osgood is our backup, for a good reason. He's simply not good enough anymore. And if he was, he would be our starter, or ATLEAST would be competing for the job. But there isnt even a competition here. Dom is the starter, Ozzie is the backup. This isnt quantum physics here. You absolutely have to admit that unless we went out and got a goaltender on the level of Hasek, Osgood would be a total downgrade.

Baskin-Robbins is on me, kiddo.

Nooo. Cold Stone is where its at.