Hasek expected to sign by end of week.

[blind 0]

It's too bad Hasek wants so much but the wings really painted themself into a corner on that one. When you start saying from the start you want him back and you have your whole front office saying that, you really lose bargaining power. So, 2.5 mil is a bit much, but it's not going to break your team. The one thing is you still have to worry about injuries, so you may want a little for money to work with going into the season.

Other than that, the rest of the free agents really aren't a big deal. The wings have the core guys there. The wings defence is solid even without Schneider or Markov. They didn't really miss a beat when Schneider got injured in the playoffs. Also, we will have Kronwall filling in on the point. The only reason Chelios even got on the pp last playoffs was because Kronwall was out as well.

Markov brought some toughness but there are plenty of guys that and probably at a much reasonable price as free agency goes on. That's how we got Markov anyways. With the core and depth the wings have with kids like Meech, Quincy, Kindl, and Ericksson, they really can afford to wait and see. If they can pick someone up for cheap, then all the better.

As for the forwards, they have their key guys in place and there is a lot of youth that can be developed there. Flippula and Huddler should have much bigger role. As Huddler develops more defense he should fill in exactly what they need, a pure shooter. The start of the season really saw to that as the hole left by Shanny was obvious. When Cleary is leading your team as top goal scorer (and he was at times in the season), you know you need more shooter. As the season went along, Z and Dats started to pick up more of that role, the wings offense were better. However, that's not what they do best and not their game. I'm also not counting samuelsson as a good shooter; he is just a scrub that's lucky to ride with Z or Dats getting all the nice passes. We have all these puck control guys with no one with a real wicked shot to pass to. Huddler has that shot and and be valuable once he develops other part of his game more. So they shouldn't worry all that much either.

Having Bertuzzi back for 2 mil would be a good price but they have to reevaluate how they are using him. Sure he is big and can forecheck, but his game is puck control and using his body to control the puck. Also he is just horrible in front of the net as in deflections, he isn't that type of player. He needs to carry the puck, set up plays, and crash the net with the puck. He is the guy that carries it over with a guy draped all over him while running over another, not so much the dump and chase. He doesn't have the speed to keep up with that.

If they sign smyth, it would be good depending on how much and how long they are giving him. Two Holmstroms is better than one and smyth has a better shot. However, you can't blow your entire cap in the future and not being able to sign Z, Filppula, or some of your young guys later.

Everyone says they need two defenseman and a couple top 6 forwards, but really they don't need much. The thing everyone forgets is you have young guys you need to develop as well and they aren't going to just sitting on the bench. If Schneider, Markov, Bertuzzi leaves, the more opportunity it creates for young kids to step up and show what they are capable of. That in itself is also a bargaining chip, the wings don't desperately need any of them. They can afford to wait and fill in the pieces they might like to have at cheaper prices. I'm not the saying it wouldn't be nice to have on the team, there are other options.

[puckloo39 5,686]

It's too bad Hasek wants so much but the wings really painted themself into a corner on that one. When you start saying from the start you want him back and you have your whole front office saying that, you really lose bargaining power. So, 2.5 mil is a bit much, but it's not going to break your team. The one thing is you still have to worry about injuries, so you may want a little for money to work with going into the season.

Other than that, the rest of the free agents really aren't a big deal. The wings have the core guys there. The wings defence is solid even without Schneider or Markov. They didn't really miss a beat when Schneider got injured in the playoffs. Also, we will have Kronwall filling in on the point. The only reason Chelios even got on the pp last playoffs was because Kronwall was out as well.

Markov brought some toughness but there are plenty of guys that and probably at a much reasonable price as free agency goes on. That's how we got Markov anyways. With the core and depth the wings have with kids like Meech, Quincy, Kindl, and Ericksson, they really can afford to wait and see. If they can pick someone up for cheap, then all the better.

As for the forwards, they have their key guys in place and there is a lot of youth that can be developed there. Flippula and Huddler should have much bigger role. As Huddler develops more defense he should fill in exactly what they need, a pure shooter. The start of the season really saw to that as the hole left by Shanny was obvious. When Cleary is leading your team as top goal scorer (and he was at times in the season), you know you need more shooter. As the season went along, Z and Dats started to pick up more of that role, the wings offense were better. However, that's not what they do best and not their game. I'm also not counting samuelsson as a good shooter; he is just a scrub that's lucky to ride with Z or Dats getting all the nice passes. We have all these puck control guys with no one with a real wicked shot to pass to. Huddler has that shot and and be valuable once he develops other part of his game more. So they shouldn't worry all that much either.

Having Bertuzzi back for 2 mil would be a good price but they have to reevaluate how they are using him. Sure he is big and can forecheck, but his game is puck control and using his body to control the puck. Also he is just horrible in front of the net as in deflections, he isn't that type of player. He needs to carry the puck, set up plays, and crash the net with the puck. He is the guy that carries it over with a guy draped all over him while running over another, not so much the dump and chase. He doesn't have the speed to keep up with that.

If they sign smyth, it would be good depending on how much and how long they are giving him. Two Holmstroms is better than one and smyth has a better shot. However, you can't blow your entire cap in the future and not being able to sign Z, Filppula, or some of your young guys later.

Everyone says they need two defenseman and a couple top 6 forwards, but really they don't need much. The thing everyone forgets is you have young guys you need to develop as well and they aren't going to just sitting on the bench. If Schneider, Markov, Bertuzzi leaves, the more opportunity it creates for young kids to step up and show what they are capable of. That in itself is also a bargaining chip, the wings don't desperately need any of them. They can afford to wait and fill in the pieces they might like to have at cheaper prices. I'm not the saying it wouldn't be nice to have on the team, there are other options.

Not that you probably care what I think, but that was a very good post.

[blind 0]

Not that you probably care what I think, but that was a very good post.

Thanks, it's good to know people agrees.

[Opie 308]

So when you get close to retirement age and it comes time for you annual review at work are you going to tell your boss that you would be willing to work for half of the money you deserve to help the company get better, more productive workers. Even though you just had a year where you were top 5 in you division, company, office, field, etc. ? No you are going to want to make your fair market value or be really pissed off about it.

Here is the difference, Hasek is already asking for under his fair market value.

As pointed out by many posters already, after last year he deserves more than 2.5 million.

Let's take Giggy, we can all say that Hasek played better than Giggy in the regular season right? How much was Giggy just signed for? Granted he is younger, but in a what have you done for me lately sports atmosphere, Dom by all rights deserves the same money or more!

I said it before Dom is not greedy, if he gets hurt in the middle of the season I fully expect him to give up the remainder of his salary like he did a couple of years ago!!

Edited June 26, 2007 by Opie

[puckloo39 5,686]

So when you get close to retirement age and it comes time for you annual review at work are you going to tell your boss that you would be willing to work for half of the money you deserve to help the company get better, more productive workers. Even though you just had a year where you were top 5 in you division, company, office, field, etc. ? No you are going to want to make your fair market value or be really pissed off about it.

Here is the difference, Hasek is already asking for under his fair market value.

As pointed out by many posters already, after last year he deserves more than 2.5 million.

Let's take Giggy, we can all say that Hasek played better than Giggy in the regular season right? How much was Giggy just signed for? Granted he is younger, but in a what have you done for me lately sports atmosphere, Dom by all rights deserves the same money or more!

I said it before Dom is not greedy, if he gets hurt in the middle of the season I fully expect him to give up the remainder of his salary like he did a couple of years ago!!

I couldn't possibly agree more... and thank you! It seems I am not the only one here who feels this way.

Edited June 26, 2007 by puckloo39

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

So when you get close to retirement age and it comes time for you annual review at work are you going to tell your boss that you would be willing to work for half of the money you deserve to help the company get better, more productive workers. Even though you just had a year where you were top 5 in you division, company, office, field, etc. ? No you are going to want to make your fair market value or be really pissed off about it.

Here is the difference, Hasek is already asking for under his fair market value.

As pointed out by many posters already, after last year he deserves more than 2.5 million.

Let's take Giggy, we can all say that Hasek played better than Giggy in the regular season right? How much was Giggy just signed for? Granted he is younger, but in a what have you done for me lately sports atmosphere, Dom by all rights deserves the same money or more!

I said it before Dom is not greedy, if he gets hurt in the middle of the season I fully expect him to give up the remainder of his salary like he did a couple of years ago!!

Not many people grow up dreaming about winning the sales competition each year. The Stanley Cup is a little different. Everyone on the winning team must sacrifice. Either their body, their time with family, or the difference between $2.5M and $1M during the offseason.

[evil204 4]

If Hasek should take less money than everyone else to help the team -- then they all should, if that's the theory. Kronwall should renegotiate his contract, and so should Datsyuk, and return money to the kettle so Kenny can get someone great to put us over the top.

It's not like people are asking Hasek to make a sacrifice because he's a nice guy. He needs to do it because there's a huge risk involved in signing him. Datsyuk and Kronwall aren't 42 years old, and they dont have chronic groin injuries. They can only get better and stronger. Hasek, no matter how well he can play, is always one awkward move away from a season-ending injury. Remember how the trainers came running to him last season every time he went down? And besides, there isn't even any guarantee that he can play well next season. At his age, reflexes obviously slow down.

[Bannedforlife 403]

So when you get close to retirement age and it comes time for you annual review at work are you going to tell your boss that you would be willing to work for half of the money you deserve to help the company get better, more productive workers. Even though you just had a year where you were top 5 in you division, company, office, field, etc. ? No you are going to want to make your fair market value or be really pissed off about it.

Here is the difference, Hasek is already asking for under his fair market value.

As pointed out by many posters already, after last year he deserves more than 2.5 million.

Let's take Giggy, we can all say that Hasek played better than Giggy in the regular season right? How much was Giggy just signed for? Granted he is younger, but in a what have you done for me lately sports atmosphere, Dom by all rights deserves the same money or more!

I said it before Dom is not greedy, if he gets hurt in the middle of the season I fully expect him to give up the remainder of his salary like he did a couple of years ago!

That's a nice gesture and all, but it wouldn't even matter since his salary would still count against the cap, which the only thing anyone cares about...

[Opie 308]

Why doesn't anyone think he is already sacrificing???

Think with you brain and not so much your Red Wings heart, trust me I know it can be hard.

How much of a sacrifice did Lids make with his contract, Datsyuk?

Do you expect Zetterberg to sign with Detroit for 3 mil when his contract is up?

If Hasek can play like this year he easily deserves 2.5, especially seeing as he played for peanuts last year and was one of the top five netminders in the league.

That's a nice gesture and all, but it wouldn't even matter since his salary would still count against the cap, which the only thing anyone cares about...

I understand your point, but that comment was more meant at people who were saying he is greedy.

[blind 0]

So when you get close to retirement age and it comes time for you annual review at work are you going to tell your boss that you would be willing to work for half of the money you deserve to help the company get better, more productive workers. Even though you just had a year where you were top 5 in you division, company, office, field, etc. ? No you are going to want to make your fair market value or be really pissed off about it.

Here is the difference, Hasek is already asking for under his fair market value.

As pointed out by many posters already, after last year he deserves more than 2.5 million.

Let's take Giggy, we can all say that Hasek played better than Giggy in the regular season right? How much was Giggy just signed for? Granted he is younger, but in a what have you done for me lately sports atmosphere, Dom by all rights deserves the same money or more!

I said it before Dom is not greedy, if he gets hurt in the middle of the season I fully expect him to give up the remainder of his salary like he did a couple of years ago!!

In the same respect, who else will pay hasek? If there is no marked for a 42 year old goaltender, well... the demanding price would drop. You are right, Giggy is much more in demand coming off a cup win and it the current hot stuff in hockey. Hasek... not so much. Most teams aren't looking for that stop gap as the wings are.

Your company metaphor can be argued if you equate winning the cup is as a huge bonus. Then it becomes if you are willing to take a pay cut if it means your company can add some other assets that might help the chances of a huge (bigger than the amount you are giving up) bonus possible.

[scotzman 29]

Hurry up and sign you magnificent bastard! Let us get some of these other guys sorted out!!

EDIT: Spelling

Edited June 26, 2007 by scotzman

[Turretin 0]

1. Hasek would have gotten more on the market.

2. He is the only guy around that the team trusts (Chelios has said as much)

3. He is worth it.

4. If he agrees to a 1 year deal, that is a big chip for the ownership.

[Opie 308]

I find it funny that people call him greedy without any evidence to back it up, but can come up with 5-10 different reasons why my analogy doesn't work, but can't dispute the facts.

Blind, on the other hand disputed the facts.

Blind:

You are right the demand for him on the market right now is not high, however it is for Schneider, and he is getting s*** on for being greedy, when a defenseman who is below his abilities gets a huge payday.

The only interest in him is the wings you are correct, however their interest is very very high, because they do need the stop gap.

So he pretty much has them by the short hairs and is asking for the same amount of money as the following starting netminders:

Ryan Miller (clearly will make a lot more in two years when his contract is up)

Cristobal Huet

Andrew Raycroft

Dan Cloutier

Curtis Joseph (this years numbers)

Manny Legace

Just another tidbit for you Ozzie is making 800k and some of you want Hasek to start for this team at 200-700k more a year, are they really that close in ability. Regardless of age he has shown he can get the job done and be an elite goalie.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Opie

[Packer487 3]

Not many people grow up dreaming about winning the sales competition each year. The Stanley Cup is a little different. Everyone on the winning team must sacrifice. Either their body, their time with family, or the difference between $2.5M and $1M during the offseason.

So giving up his body and his time with the family isn't enough? He's also expected to be one of the only ones on the team (I'd put Chelios in that category as well) to take MUCH less money than he's worth? If everyone on the team has to sacrifice, why does Dom have to "sacrifice" financially--when he's always sacrificing in the other categories as well?

Datsyuk got almost a $3 million raise from last year.

Holmstrom's getting an extra million or so next year.

If Schneider comes back, he'll be getting an extra million or two.

Kronwall got a $2 million+ raise, FOR DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Lidstrom is making the max.

Why don't any of them have to sacrifice financially as well?

And by the way, none of them are as important to the team as Hasek. Especially for the money they're making....we could find another marquee forward to do what Datsyuk does, given that we'd have $6.7 million freed up. We could find another s***ty defenseman for $3 million (actually we could probably even find one that doesn't blow). Now try finding a top 5 goalie for $2.5 million.

That's a nice gesture and all, but it wouldn't even matter since his salary would still count against the cap, which the only thing anyone cares about...

It actually won't count against the cap if he's hurt.....well, it will, but we'll be allowed to go over the cap by that much.

It's not like people are asking Hasek to make a sacrifice because he's a nice guy. He needs to do it because there's a huge risk involved in signing him. Datsyuk and Kronwall aren't 42 years old, and they dont have chronic groin injuries. They can only get better and stronger. Hasek, no matter how well he can play, is always one awkward move away from a season-ending injury. Remember how the trainers came running to him last season every time he went down? And besides, there isn't even any guarantee that he can play well next season. At his age, reflexes obviously slow down.

Like there's no risk in signing Datsyuk (no one knew how he'd do in the playoffs when they signed him....and he still sucked on the road a lot of the time) or Kronwall (general mediocrity, injuries). Kronwall may not have a chronic groin problem, but he's not exactly the model of perfect health.

ANY player in the NHL is one more away from a season ending injury. Dom has a higher risk than a lot of em, but they're also being pretty smart about how they handle him.

There's no guarantee that he'll play well next year? C'mon. He posted better numbers last year than he did in 2001-02 when we won the Cup. (.12 better in GAA, just .002 worse in save percentage, 8 shutouts vs. 5 in 02, just 3 less wins despite playing 9 less games). The year before that he had a .925 save percentage. He'll lose it eventually, but I'll take past history on this one. He doesn't show any sign of slowing down.

And I love how the anti-Hasek people haven't posted a single viable alternative to him. Want to know why? Because there ISN'T one. And yet, we expect him to play like a Vezina candidate, but make the money of a backup. But everyone else on the team can make what the market will bare. Hasek's greedy though.

Gimmee a ******* break.

-Tim

Edited June 26, 2007 by Packer487

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

So when you get close to retirement age and it comes time for you annual review at work are you going to tell your boss that you would be willing to work for half of the money you deserve to help the company get better, more productive workers. Even though you just had a year where you were top 5 in you division, company, office, field, etc. ? No you are going to want to make your fair market value or be really pissed off about it.

Here is the difference, Hasek is already asking for under his fair market value.

As pointed out by many posters already, after last year he deserves more than 2.5 million.

Let's take Giggy, we can all say that Hasek played better than Giggy in the regular season right? How much was Giggy just signed for? Granted he is younger, but in a what have you done for me lately sports atmosphere, Dom by all rights deserves the same money or more!

I said it before Dom is not greedy, if he gets hurt in the middle of the season I fully expect him to give up the remainder of his salary like he did a couple of years ago!!

I'm not sure he is asking for less than market value, if it's around 2.5 million. He played great for us last season, but I stil can't imagine many teams, if any, paying more than that for him.

Not to mention last year he wouldn't have even been in the NHL had the Wings not taken a chance on him.

Would 2.5 mill be outrageous? No. But I'd prefer his base salary under $2 million with a lot of incentives. Last year the gamble paid off. That doesn't mean it's not a gamble again this year.

EDIT: And to be clear, I'm in no way calling Hasek greedy for asking that much. Players get too much grief for being "greedy" and not giving up milllions of dollars for the team. It's awful easy to say when it's not your money and career.

Edited June 26, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Opie 308]

Harold:

Didn't think you were calling him greedy but many have in their posts.

You and I differ on opinions from time to time, but at least you can debate with out calling me names, and you actually back up what you say with facts.

[Darius099 0]

This is a pretty good deal. I will be happy with Bert at that cost as well if he doesn't flop.

I will be sad to see Schneider go, but we absolutely HAVE to start letting kids have icetime. EVERY time we do it it turns out well (Lebda, Kronwall, Zetterberg/Datsyuk, Filpulla, Franzen, etc etc), and we can't wait too long or we'll start losing them. So give Kindl some time, or maybe Quincey.

As a closing comment here, I would sell the goddamned farm to get Drury on this team because god damn his name may as well be Chris "ALL CLUTCH ALL THE TIME" Drury.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Do I wish that Hasek would sign for less than $2M or $2.5M, if that’s what it’s looking like? Without much question.

Is there still risks with his famous groin issues, even though it wasn’t really a factor last season (and the few games he missed weren’t groin related) at his age? Of course, and that will always be in the back of my mind.

Bertuzzi is just as much of an injury risk with his back though, and nobody is griping much that he might make around $2M, assuming he re-signs.

Hasek was a steal of a deal last year staying healthy given all that he has accomplished in the past and what he was able to do the past 2 seasons, esp. last season barely missing any time.

It will be the same thing with Bertuzzi being a steal if he is able to stay healthy more often than not and show some glimpses of playing up to his potential during his Vancouver days, assuming he signs with the Wings around the $2M amount like we are reading.

I know the Red Wings are our team, we are all huge fans and such. And I know we’ve read current/past NHL players enjoy how much they play with the Wings. But this isn’t just a hobby to these guys though, like it is to us. They do this for a living, they do it to support themselves, they do it to support their families. Sometimes that means having to play for more money, and sometimes those situations are better suited for players outside of Detroit and the Red Wings organization. It’s not just about playing for the Red Wings to many of these guys, as much as we'd like it to jutst be about playing for the team/symbol on the front of your jersey. That’s neither bad nor good, sometimes guys just want to play elsewhere or for more money for their best opportunity to support themselves and their family, just like in any other job or career (even though not specifically in Hasek's case right now in terms of location).

To think that him or Hasek isn't due or deserves somewhat of a pay raise, that’s just silly. I know I’m thankful for whatever and every pay raise or bonus I get at my job.

[blind 0]

I find it funny that people call him greedy without any evidence to back it up, but can come up with 5-10 different reasons why my analogy doesn't work, but can't dispute the facts.

Blind, on the other hand disputed the facts.

Blind:

You are right the demand for him on the market right now is not high, however it is for Schneider, and he is getting s*** on for being greedy, when a defenseman who is below his abilities gets a huge payday.

The only interest in him is the wings you are correct, however their interest is very very high, because they do need the stop gap.

So he pretty much has them by the short hairs and is asking for the same amount of money as the following starting netminders:

Ryan Miller (clearly will make a lot more in two years when his contract is up)

Cristobal Huet

Andrew Raycroft

Dan Cloutier

Curtis Joseph (this years numbers)

Manny Legace

Just another tidbit for you Ozzie is making 800k and some of you want Hasek to start for this team at 200-700k more a year, are they really that close in ability. Regardless of age he has shown he can get the job done and be an elite goalie.

Yea. I thought it was bad when they started to give away their hand on how much they wanted Hasek back. You can read everything i thought about that in an earlier reply to this post. I would have liked to see some of the money he gets going to bonuses. Some of his bonuses from last year a already counted against this years cap (something like if he plays a game he'll get 1 million dollars bonus, sure money he will get and goes to next year's cap). That's probably what they are hammering out now.

It's not as matter of greed but what they want. If someone only wants to win a cup then they'll play for peanuts for a good team, but at the same time they also want to be well of for the rest of their lives and an extra couple million sure would help that. Sometimes the opportunities coincide; if neidermeyer retires and burke will pay schneider 5 mil, he would have every reason to go since ducks has a better team and they are giving him money. It's just balancing out what someone wants in this situation. All of us do that.

"Loyalty" is really an arbitrary thing in pro sports. It's not that often you find plays gaining great deals of attachments to cities they play in, especially since they may just get dealt the next day. And even if they do, look at how much loyalty brought Maroth or even the sh*t Maltby catches on these boards. It's probably a lot easier for guys that grew up in Detroit to have full belief and patriotism in this areas, and even that just takes a back seat when the opportunity for a raise comes. It's just survival in this thing we call capitalism; there is no allegiances other than cash.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Soooooo the end of the week is in two days - no hear yet? Maybe Dom is going to see if he gets other offers next week to gauge his market price? In a week, I guess we'll know alot more about this team...