Where is the Loyalty?

[Houdini 0]

Well, I guess I was reading between the lines. When you come out and say your family, their happiness and the "so much more important things than money" comments it lead me to believe that you were looking down on the players for leaving. It appeared to me you were insinuating that certain players (that you didn't name) left solely for money (which, how would you know that). That's how I took your post. Anyway, Aussie seems to think you're spot on with your comments and thus far that guy hasn't been right about anything so I put two and two together. I guess I made a mistake. But it sure sounded like you were implying that you would have better reasons for staying or leaving than the guys we're talking about even though we're not naming names. Ssshhhh!

My real beef is with Aussie, he doesn't know why they left and just states that players who jump from team to team don't deserve respect. I take umbrage with that. If you're implying what I thought you were implying then I meant every word I said. If not, then my apologies. Everybody will have their own reasons for staying with a team or not. Some will be more "noble" than others. In the end though, its nobody's business why anybody leaves and I don't think any player should be blamed for taking more money. That's the bottom line. I don't care if they are making thousands, millions or billions. If somebody offers you more and you have no problems taking it, then nobody else should have a problem with you taking it. The fact that some people cry and ***** about it and diss on the players is ludicrous in my opinion. Maybe you weren't doing that but that's the tone I got from your posts.

Na, I wasn't trying to imply anything about this particular situation. It's that I took offense to the post that said anyone else would leave for an extra $500,000 even if you're making $5 million already. I've never understood why players hold out on contracts in hopes of squeeze out every cent they can from the owners. Not that the owners deserver all the money they make from the players either, but now I'm digressing.

As far as the Bertuzzi situation, it sounds to me like he wanted that extra year and didn't go to other teams until it was certain he wasn't going to get it from the Wings. If that's truly the case, I have don't really have a problem with him leaving (even though I REALLY wish he would have stayed).

- Houdini

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I must stress again.....

I don't care what the profession is, if you have an opportunity to go somewhere else or a different city to make more money or for a new challenge, you'd definitely at the very least consider it.

I know we are fans of the Red Wings and our loyalty to them stretches far. PLAYERS ARE NOT FANS THOUGH. They aren't expected to be.

Sometimes people want a change of scenery after playing somewhere for 4, 5 years. They want opportunities to challenge themselves, or to better their personal/financial situation or personal/financial situation for their families.

Hell, people in run-of-the-mill jobs might want a change of scenery after 6-12 months.

I seriously do not understand how people can get so upset that somebody might play for another team besides the Detroit Red Wings when you, I, or anybody else could switch a job in a matter of a year or two for more money.

Loyalty is few and far between for a lot of people, whether it's in sports or the non-sports world anymore. It's very nice when you meet somebody who is loyal to his/her company, working for 5+ years or whatever else. But it's not the norm anymore in these times of work and career, and should be nothing to get seriously upset about, generally speaking.

Edited July 3, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[Copenhagen848 58]

another thin'.. if E'eryone is no hung up on loyalty... why the obessi'e need t' change the team t' get new players each second o' the day? Do you feel loyal by askin' those players you co'et t' break their loyalty t' their former teams? I mean come on get o'er yoursel'es... You be askin' the players t' be loyal t' certain organizations when in fact all you be loyal t' is the "w" word... Winnin', shiver me timbers!

Off Topic:

No offense, but what is the deal with typing like a pirate all the time??? I'd like to read what you have to say, but the pirate talk makes me completely skip over your posts because it is very annoying

[CenterIce 83]

How about that Bertuzzi called Anaheim??????

http://www.mightyducks.com/press/release/a...707&id=1774

It does say after it was appartent that nothing was going to be done with Detroit, so it sounded like he was giving Detroit a chance. They were not going to offer 4 million/year, though.

[eva unit zero 271]

Bertuzzi didn't stay because he wanted a longer deal. Holland wasn't willing to commit to more than one year at the kind of money Bertuzzi wanted, because of guys like Lidstrom, Filppula, Cleary, etc. who become free agents next year.

Ultimately, that comes down to greed. Bertuzzi has scored 45 goals in 166 games in the last three seasons. That's about 22 goals per 82 game season. He hasn't been a major physical force since the Moore incident, and he has had trouble staying healthy. He was unimpressive with the Wings after Holland acquired him, but Holland was willing to offer him 1 year at 3m, which is really more than he's worth (and more than the Wings could really afford to pay him) based on his declining performances over the past few years. Bertuzzi was upset he wasn't getting a multi-year deal. He went on and on about how much he wanted to stay. Given that, he could easily have said 'Instead of 3m for one year, how about 1.5m for two years?' But instead he chose to be greedy.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Bertuzzi didn't stay because he wanted a longer deal. Holland wasn't willing to commit to more than one year at the kind of money Bertuzzi wanted, because of guys like Lidstrom, Filppula, Cleary, etc. who become free agents next year.

Ultimately, that comes down to greed. Bertuzzi has scored 45 goals in 166 games in the last three seasons. That's about 22 goals per 82 game season. He hasn't been a major physical force since the Moore incident, and he has had trouble staying healthy. He was unimpressive with the Wings after Holland acquired him, but Holland was willing to offer him 1 year at 3m, which is really more than he's worth (and more than the Wings could really afford to pay him) based on his declining performances over the past few years. Bertuzzi was upset he wasn't getting a multi-year deal. He went on and on about how much he wanted to stay. Given that, he could easily have said 'Instead of 3m for one year, how about 1.5m for two years?' But instead he chose to be greedy.

Finally. Someone sees what's really going on here.

All of the Bertuzzi lovers think this is Holland's fault. You know, I'm not afraid to make Holland a whipping boy, but it's just stupid to fault him for Bertuzzi leaving. Bertuzzi was nothing but a greedy ass loser in this situation. He didn't do dick here to even earn himself 3 million a season. Save for one game against Calgary, and one game against Anaheim, he was about as productive as Bill Guerin in these playoffs.

[Flip-check 6]

Bertuzzi was upset he wasn't getting a multi-year deal. He went on and on about how much he wanted to stay. Given that, he could easily have said 'Instead of 3m for one year, how about 1.5m for two years?' But instead he chose to be greedy.

He wanted to stay, sure, but he's not going to play a chump to make it happen. 1.5m per? when someone would pay him 3, at least?

I agree he doesn't warrant that kind of contract, but if Holland declined on a two-yr deal and Bert said "yeah sure" to Burke's 4m, that's probably not all that greedy--depends on how it all went down, etc.

If Bert was asking for 3+--that's not just greedy, that's gouging someone for more than you're reliably worth. who knows though.

Edited July 4, 2007 by Flip-check

[Statts 4]

Bertuzzi didn't stay because he wanted a longer deal. Holland wasn't willing to commit to more than one year at the kind of money Bertuzzi wanted, because of guys like Lidstrom, Filppula, Cleary, etc. who become free agents next year.

Ultimately, that comes down to greed. Bertuzzi has scored 45 goals in 166 games in the last three seasons. That's about 22 goals per 82 game season. He hasn't been a major physical force since the Moore incident, and he has had trouble staying healthy. He was unimpressive with the Wings after Holland acquired him, but Holland was willing to offer him 1 year at 3m, which is really more than he's worth (and more than the Wings could really afford to pay him) based on his declining performances over the past few years. Bertuzzi was upset he wasn't getting a multi-year deal. He went on and on about how much he wanted to stay. Given that, he could easily have said 'Instead of 3m for one year, how about 1.5m for two years?' But instead he chose to be greedy.

4 million a year or 1.5 million a year... hmmm what to choose... I would go with 4 million. Bert was not being greedy he was being logical. How can you blame Bert for the decision he made? I am not good with math but that's a big difference. I make roughly $50,000/year that's like me not accepting a job that paid $112,500/year. Call me greedy, but I would not even give it a second thought. Bye bye old job.

Edited July 4, 2007 by Statts

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

QFT Statts.

Again...

People want to work at another job or city to (1) give themselves a new challenge or (2) improve their or their families financial situation.

And people here still think that once you play one or two seasons with the Red Wings, you pretty much have to sell your life and soul to this team until you die.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

QFT Statts.

Again...

People want to work at another job or city to (1) give themselves a new challenge or (2) improve their or their families financial situation.

And people here still think that once you play one or two seasons with the Red Wings, you pretty much have to sell your life and soul to this team until you die.

So turning down a $2.5 million offer is because they need to provide for their families?

Give me a break!!!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

So turning down a $2.5 million offer is because they need to provide for their families?

Give me a break!!!

It's the REALITY of today's work world, whether it's run-of-the-mill jobs or sports jobs buddy.

People either want new challenges or more money, and it doesn't matter if they've worked the same job for just 1 year or 10.

Sometimes it's just simply wanting a change of scenery.

This is nothing new in the world today and I don't get why people are so upset over this when they would, at the very least, consider doing the same thing at their job or their career, whether they are making $30,000 or $50,000 or $200,000 or $1,000,000.

I can tell you I love my current job, been there for about 2 1/3 years, but I'm not kidding you, it's not a lot of money, and I want to stay at the company but I got to face the REALITY that I might eventually need to work somplace else to either (1) give myself a new challenge or (2) make more money.

Players aren't tied to the Red Wings or any other team for 50+ years of their life just because we are big fans of a team. It's their life, their career, THEIR DECISIONS, not ours.

So turning down a $2.5 million offer is because they need to provide for their families?

Give me a break!!!

You never know, could provide for their generations of families down the line. Whatever bit of money you have helps.

Edited July 4, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[BlakChamber 8]

So turning down a $2.5 million offer is because they need to provide for their families?

Give me a break!!!

I love how you know what's best for a person's family.

Just because someone signs a contract for 2.5 million, doesn't mean they're getting all of it.

First off, an agent takes 10-12%. No doubt you've got lawyers, accountants, etc Then you've got taxes. If you're a Canadian citizen, you're looking at giving a good chunk of change to the government. Plus, each state you work in taxes you. Say you play 4 games against the Bruins, you owe the state of Massachusetts. Now, 4 days of taxes to Mass. aren't going to break the bank, but the only states that have a NHL team and don't have an income tax are Texas and Florida. So that's all going to add up.

Now, I have no doubt someone will miss that point of what I'm saying. I AM NOT SAYING THE PLAYERS ARE HURTING FOR MONEY. I'm just saying when you sign a contract for 2.5 million, you don't end up with 2.5 million

Since Markov was the example with everything that's wrong in sports today, why does he owe the Red Wings any loyalty? He's been a Red Wing for one year. It's not like he's a Stevie Y or a Lidstrom type of guy, who's played his whole career here. He had one season.

And I've seen plenty of people say this, but yet to see a good answer. Aussie, why should the players show loyalty to an organization, when the oganization knows the players are disposible and interchangable. Should the Red Wings have kept Darren McCarty out of loyalty? Ask Chris Osgood how loyal the Red Wings were when they brought Hasek in to replace him.

[OsGOD 3]

Does anyone honestly believe that a 1 YEAR 6mill contract would 'ave pryed (I mean made Rafalski become UNLOYAL) From th' devils? Heck no... 'twas th' length o' th' contract 'n th' security 'n stabilty that a 5 year deal brought t' 'im 'n his family. He knows that unless th' Org become UNLOYAL t' 'im, his family has a ship t' live fer 5 freakin' years.

Was 1 year enough t' pry Bert away from a multi year deal from his former employer.... Guess nah... maybe th' Wings should show some loyalty t' th' well-bein' o' a player when they extend their offers as well. Offerin' a 1 year deal when th' player wanted a multi-year deal..

Edited July 4, 2007 by OsGOD