Who will challenge the Wings for Central title?

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Are there people honestly picking Chicago to finish second this season? They have some great young talent, but it's going to take some time for them to develop. Even as poor as the Central looks, the Blackhawks will not be the second best team.

My prediction is that St. Louis and Nashville willl be fighting for second for most of the season, although I don't expect either to make the playoffs. All five teams in the Northwest Division are better than them on paper, and there are three better teams in the Pacific Division. I still am leaning towards Nashville being stronger than St. Louis, despite losing some major players this off-season.

The Preds still have a solid group of top six forwards, Suter and Weber on defense, and Mason is essentially a trade-off for Vokoun. The Blues were very good under Andy Murray, and I believe they even split the season series with the Red Wings. I don't understand bringing Tkachuk back, but Kariya will be a nice addition. Defense and goaltending seem to be a bit of a concern though for the Blues. Overall, I think the Predators finish ahead of the Blues slightly, but neither will honestly challenge the Red Wings for the Central Division title.

Sorry for omitting Columbus, but I think they pretty much speak for themselves each season.

Edited July 14, 2007 by GoWings1905

[cprice12 117]

I keep hearing this and it makes me wonder: Why? The only possible reason I can think of is they'll have a full year of Andy Murray, which I don't think is enough to make a difference.

I see only 2 upgrades over last years team, which wasn't horrible, but still missed the playoff by 15 points.

1. Kariya is a slight upgrade over Guerin (debatable)

2. Erik Johnson

For my money, I wouldn't bet on Johnson being that great this year. Rookie defensemen rarely are, no matter how much hype they get. Also, their 2 best returning players (Weight and Tkachuk) will be 37 and 36 respectively next year.

I guess you can tell, I'm not sold.

Obviously you need some Central Division education. Let me help.

First of all, Weight and Tkachuk are NOT the two best returning Blues players.

(And technically, Tkachuk is not a returning player. He was signed as a free agent.)

Stempniak and Jackman are the two best returning players, imo.

You see "only two upgrades" over last season? ONLY two upgrades? Two upgrades is significant...especially when they are Paul Kariya (who is a big upgrade over Guerin. Mark my words...Guerin will not be able to reproduce his numbers from last year) and Eric Johnson, the #1 overall pick last year....whom many thought should have played in the NHL last year. And the hype behind EJ is greater than the hype was for Jackman, who beat out Zetterberg for the Calder. EJ should be fine...and if he challenges for the Calder, all the better. Will he be "great?"...I dunno, probably not quite...we'll see.

How many upgrades did the Wings make? Try zero. They actually took a step backwards. While you guys seem to be downplaying the loss of Lang, Calder and Bertuzzi...that's a decent amount of scoring punch that has left the roster to be replaced by...nobody.

The Blues should be significantly better than last year.

Last year they had McKee, Rucinsky and Legace hurt for large chunks of the season. So getting them back into the lineup is a pretty big deal. And Hinote was out most of last year too. I know he isn't anything special offensively, but he is a heck of a checker when healthy. I'd much rather have Hinote than Drake.

We got Boyes at the trade deadline last year, who is a good young forward. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in his 3rd year in the league.

Backes is a big, strong kid and is coming off of a very solid partial first season. Having him a full season will be fun to watch.

Stempniak keeps getting better. 'Nuf said. This could be a big year for him.

And a full year of Andy Murray is huge. He is ten times the coach Kitchen was and had this team playing very, very well. Going through training camp with your team is huge. He didn't have that opportunity last year. It should only help things. If Andy Murray was the coach of the team from the start of the season, the Blues probably make the playoffs last year.

I think you forget that the Blues have a handfull of good young players. And they should be improving each year...so another year of experience is an upgrade from the previous year as far as I am concerned.

Now, with that said...

I am not saying the Blues are going to win the division or challenge for the cup or anything. They still need another scoring winger or two...but with the improvements the Blues have made and with the way the Wings have regressed a bit...no way in hell do the Wings run away with the division. The Blues will hang around and make it somewhat interesting, assuming they stay relatively healthy and don't lose key players for long stretches like last year.

[cprice12 117]

Defense and goaltending seem to be a bit of a concern though for the Blues.

Ummmm....no.

The Blues defense and goaltending are the best parts of their team.

We have a surplus of defense at the NHL level, which is why there is talk of trading Backman for a scoring winger.

The Blues defense:

Jackman

Backman

McKee

Brewer

Eric Johnson

Salvador

Woywitka

And look up Legace's numbers. After a shaky start to the season (in which the team had no direction and looked lost on the ice thanks to Kitchen's extremely poor preperation for games), Legace had a great run under Murray until he got hurt.

Legace's stats last year:

Wins: 23

Losses: 15

2.59 GAA

.907 Save %

He finished 8 games over .500 on a team that was under .500.

Which is really quite good especially considering how bad the team was playing around him to start the season.

And organization-wise...they are extremely deep in good goalie prospects.

[Kp-Wings 3]

How many upgrades did the Wings make? Try zero. They actually took a step backwards. While you guys seem to be downplaying the loss of Lang, Calder and Bertuzzi...that's a decent amount of scoring punch that has left the roster to be replaced by...nobody.

Come on now.

Calder and Bertuzzi played only half a season here. Not even that. They were both non-existant in the playoffs for us, and had nothing to do with making it to the Western Conference Final. Datsyuk and Hasek were both two of the main reasons for that, and their still both here.

Lang scored a clutch goal against San Jose to extend things, but other than that, he was arguably one of the worst and underachieving players on the Wings. His laziness will not be missed.

In short, I think you're wrong about the Wings taking any step backwards. What happens in the central this year will be because the other teams took steps forwards.

I fully expect St. Louis to be the only other team in the division to be any good at all. Kariya is a major upgrade over Guerin. The Blues have plenty of other young prospects still also.

None of the other teams in the division will be much of a factor, in my opinion. Chicago is under the curse of Bill Wirtz. Columbus did not make a single big signing at all during free agency, and have no real star players (No, Rick Nash is not a star player). Nashville sold off half of their team for nothing.

I do expect St. Louis to give a good run at it. It should respark the Wings - Blues rivalry, and hopefully, kill the forced rivalry with Nashville.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Obviously you need some Central Division education. Let me help.

First of all, Weight and Tkachuk are NOT the two best returning Blues players.

(And technically, Tkachuk is not a returning player. He was signed as a free agent.)

Stempniak and Jackman are the two best returning players, imo.

You see "only two upgrades" over last season? ONLY two upgrades? Two upgrades is significant...especially when they are Paul Kariya (who is a big upgrade over Guerin. Mark my words...Guerin will not be able to reproduce his numbers from last year) and Eric Johnson, the #1 overall pick last year....whom many thought should have played in the NHL last year. And the hype behind EJ is greater than the hype was for Jackman, who beat out Zetterberg for the Calder. EJ should be fine...and if he challenges for the Calder, all the better. Will he be "great?"...I dunno, probably not quite...we'll see.

How many upgrades did the Wings make? Try zero. They actually took a step backwards. While you guys seem to be downplaying the loss of Lang, Calder and Bertuzzi...that's a decent amount of scoring punch that has left the roster to be replaced by...nobody.

The Blues should be significantly better than last year.

Last year they had McKee, Rucinsky and Legace hurt for large chunks of the season. So getting them back into the lineup is a pretty big deal. And Hinote was out most of last year too. I know he isn't anything special offensively, but he is a heck of a checker when healthy. I'd much rather have Hinote than Drake.

We got Boyes at the trade deadline last year, who is a good young forward. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in his 3rd year in the league.

Backes is a big, strong kid and is coming off of a very solid partial first season. Having him a full season will be fun to watch.

Stempniak keeps getting better. 'Nuf said. This could be a big year for him.

And a full year of Andy Murray is huge. He is ten times the coach Kitchen was and had this team playing very, very well. Going through training camp with your team is huge. He didn't have that opportunity last year. It should only help things. If Andy Murray was the coach of the team from the start of the season, the Blues probably make the playoffs last year.

I think you forget that the Blues have a handfull of good young players. And they should be improving each year...so another year of experience is an upgrade from the previous year as far as I am concerned.

Now, with that said...

I am not saying the Blues are going to win the division or challenge for the cup or anything. They still need another scoring winger or two...but with the improvements the Blues have made and with the way the Wings have regressed a bit...no way in hell do the Wings run away with the division. The Blues will hang around and make it somewhat interesting, assuming they stay relatively healthy and don't lose key players for long stretches like last year.

I think its quite obvious you spend more time watching the Blues than the Wings because basically you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to Detroit. Now that that is out of the way let's talk specifics.

Do you know how many games Calder played in Detroit and how many points he contributed? You should look that up before you say we'll miss him.

Do you know how many games Bertuzzi played in Detroit and how many points he contributed? You should also look that up before you say we'll miss him.

Do you know how many turnovers Lang had during the season? Do you know how weak he is defensively and that despite his ability to put up some decent numbers was the worst center on our team?

You see, its called addition by subtraction. We got rid of 2 guys who were in Detroit for about 3 minutes and our worst defensive forward and laziest forward overall.

We replaced Matty Schneider with a younger, better all-around defenseman in Rafalski. That's a huge move you didn't mention.

We'll see how great Erik Johnson is. I love rookie defenseman playing on mediocre teams, and oh yes, the Blues are gonna be mediocre again. I wonder how many games Jackman will play before he gets hurt again. And yeah, he won the Calder (thanks for pointing that out because we're all stupid around here) but there isn't a GM in the world who wouldn't take Zetterberg over Jackman any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I love your enthusiasm for your team but let's face facts. Wings will win the division easily. Blues won't even sniff the playoffs. So why are you here right now? By all means post to your hearts content but if I were you i'd watch how much chest thumping I was doing until the Blues started actually winning more games than they lose.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Too many people believe the addition of Kariya will change St. Louis' nature entirely. What they did was got a minor (yes MINOR) upgrade over Guerin. Kariya is too inconsistant lately to rely that heavily on. He's a hit or miss, you either picked up a point per game player or someone who's at risk of underachieving. For 6M dollars to boot? Eek.

Too many people also say that Erik Johnson will make a big impact to the Blues. This is ridiculous. I thik Erik Johnson will do good, but there's too much weight on his shoulders. I mean, he's a rookie defenseman, and defense is a tough position to play as a rook. Not everyone's Dion Phaneuf. It seems like a huge stretch to expect a huge turnaround with him there. He's a first overall pick, but the Blues better hope for a prodigy, not another Berard or Hamrlik in the works.

It seems to surreal to consider STL even a playoff team with two very minor upgrades.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Legace's stats last year:

Wins: 23

Losses: 15

2.59 GAA

.907 Save %

He finished 8 games over .500 on a team that was under .500.

Which is really quite good especially considering how bad the team was playing around him to start the season.

And organization-wise...they are extremely deep in good goalie prospects.

Legace did do real good last season.

To say that St. Louis is extremely deep in good goalie prospects. Pretty much every single NHL team is deep is good goalie prospects.

[eva unit zero 271]

Detroit, Anaheim, San Jose, Dallas, Nashville, Vancouver, Minnesota, and Calgary made the playoffs last year. Teams that were close include Colorado and St. Louis.

Nashville, Minnesota, and Anaheim got worse this summer. Detroit, Vancouver, Calgary, Colorado, and St. Louis got better. Colorado probably moves back into the playoffs, likely at the expense of Minnesota. St. Louis should challenge for a playoff spot, and could possibly bump off Nashville or Dallas.

[BeeRYCE 2]

I can't see Minnesota not making the playoffs. They're a very well disciplined team with 2 top lines of steady skill level that can blow alot of teams away.

Plus, Minnesota made the playoffs basically without Gaborik, who played a little over half of the season. I can't see him missing a good portion of the season again. I see 70+ games from him, which means big things for the Wild.

With that said. I can see the playoff teams being (in no order) Detroit, Anaheim, Vancouver, Minnesota, Colorado, Calgary, San Jose, with Nashville (just IMO), Dallas, and Los Angelas fighting for the 8th spot. I still don't see any room for St. Louis, maybe in 08/09, not 07/08.

Edited July 14, 2007 by BeeRYCE

[chrisdetroit 189]

obvsiouly you missed the sarcarm..or the tongue in cheek of it..or the blatant bulls***

i can see a 1st round loss, i can also see us winning the cup..

remember that Andy Murray had a damn good team in LA for years and couldn't do anything with them. their great run when murry came was ok, but it was only just about 500 hockey. columbus doesn't have the defense, nashville morgaged their future and got another 1st round loss and chicago...we'll they've just signed Robert Lang, what more is there to say.

if we lose more than 3 games against central allo year i'll be amazed. we need to work out how to win on the west coast, becasue it's gonig to be teams like anaheim. san jose, vancouver and calgary that we'll have to get through next year

Lose more than 3 games? That's going a little bit far. There's 32 games against Central teams. You are saying that we would go 29-3. That's not even realistic. I would bet we loose 1 or 2 to each team and maybe sweep one of them to total 5-7 losses.

[OsGOD 3]

I think it will be the Wings and then a 4 way tie for last... being decided by GF

[Guest DetroitIan]

I think it will be the Wings and then a 4 way tie for last... being decided by GF

Aint that the truth!

[cprice12 117]

"Addition by subraction"...that's a term used by those who are trying to look on the bright side and searching for a silver lining.

But maybe you guys are right. Maybe Detroit will be better than they were last year. But I seriously doubt it. I see them struggling to get to 100pts...and that still may win the division...but not by a lot.

I think Schneider and Rafalski are a wash...they had similar stats last year but Schneider played in quite a few less games...and he also had a better +/-.

I fail to see how Rafalski is an "upgrade", other than that he is 4 years younger.

That's why I didn't mention it as an upgrade...because it's more or less a lateral move after losing Schneider.

And good luck with Drake. The guy is a warrior...but he should have retired before last season. He had nothing left in the tank last year and the only time you noticed him was when he caughed the puck up or made a big hit once every few games. If he gets a regular shift, that is subtraction by addition, imo.

[Majsheppard 203]

hahahahahahaha, LMAO.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I fail to see how Rafalski is an "upgrade", other than that he is 4 years younger.

He can score just as many points as Schneider, and isn't horrible defensivly.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Rafalski is an upgrade over Schneider because of defensive awareness. Also Schneider's even strength offensive ability isn't as crisp. What Schneider has up on Rafalski is him being the shooter on the PP and getting points for it. Also spending 4-5 years on a defensively spectacular squad does wonders.

[lfd250 1]

As it was last year, the biggest challenge to the wings will be, back to back games and the long trip west.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think people are gonna be shocked by the Central this year. Columbus likely wont see the barage of injuries that they saw last year, and guys like Klesla, Nash, Hainsey, Brule, Zherdeve, Leclaire with another year under their belts. Chicago didnt make huge changes, but they still had a 9 game undefeated streak (or something) last year and were really making headway with the new coaching staff, not to mention Havlat is a game changer that could see 80 games next year. Nashville, regardless of their losses, still has some talent (Sully, Legwand, Arnott, Dumont, Radulov), Mason was as strong as Vokoun last year. Their defense is a little weak, but they have some great young guns back there. Finally, St. Louis was making a run at the end of the season if you remember. Basically, on offense, they lost Guerin but gained Kariya - big improvement. Their offensive core of Kariya, Stempniak, Tkachuk, and Weight is currently more balanced than the Wings.

Edit: Forgot about Boyes for St. Louis as well as the rookie Johnson

Realistic predictions based on the paper teams.

My only concern is whether Nashville gets their situation sorted out. Teams that are on the verge of being moved often play with that hanging on their necks. But all things considered, Nashville's depth chart is too impressive to ignore them based on the player losses this offseason. Will they challenge for the president's trophy? Not likely. But they're not going to be push-overs either. Anyone that doesn't see prospects worth stealing from Nash is craaazy.

I'll believe Chicago'll be good when I see it. Every off-season is a time for people to think Philly and Chicago won't suck.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

How many upgrades did the Wings make? Try zero. They actually took a step backwards. While you guys seem to be downplaying the loss of Lang, Calder and Bertuzzi...that's a decent amount of scoring punch that has left the roster to be replaced by...nobody.

It's rather entertaining that you've chastised us for essentially not knowing about the upward moves of your young talent when you're literally ignoring the fact that Bert, Lang and Calder are all being replaced by OUR upwardly moving young talent.

Of course I don't expect you to follow the Wings closely enough to know Huds, Filp and Grigs (although near the end of last season Huds had an article on nhl.com talking about his fantastic production in tiny amounts of ice time). But I'd expect you to at least assume the winningest franchise in the last decade isn't walking into this season blind.

[NomadFromKazoo 42]

It's rather entertaining that you've chastised us for essentially not knowing about the upward moves of your young talent when you're literally ignoring the fact that Bert, Lang and Calder are all being replaced by OUR upwardly moving young talent.

Of course I don't expect you to follow the Wings closely enough to know Huds, Filp and Grigs (although near the end of last season Huds had an article on nhl.com talking about his fantastic production in tiny amounts of ice time). But I'd expect you to at least assume the winningest franchise in the last decade isn't walking into this season blind.

Exactly. If we had too many signings we'd be bashed for not developing and using the farm system.

But here's two upgrades we had from the end of this season over last.

Kromwell and Rafalski on the ice over Kromwell and Schneider gone for the season.

Edited July 15, 2007 by NomadFromKazoo

[Drake_Marcus 890]

"Addition by subraction"...that's a term used by those who are trying to look on the bright side and searching for a silver lining.

A cutsie observation but saying that basically amounts to saying:

"No matter how bad a player is, if they're lost without some sort of player being brought into the system to replace them it's a bad thing."

Or, in other words: When the Wings lost Lang and didn't pick another player up to replace him it doesn't matter whether Filp looks to be a better fit on the team next year in his spot then he would be because we didn't add someone new to the team.

The problem with that idea, aside from the obvious fact that Filp as show us he's a rising star and will, along with Huddler, do great things with the extra minutes vacated by our least useful top six forwards (unless you count Sammy as a top six, in which case I'd pay Holland money not to play him above third line), that that is the stratedgy of the Blues for the last decade: Trade off your good veteran players at the deadline for prospects that will hopefully replace them and then some.