Crosby Contract Extension Negotiations

[toby91_ca 620]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07186/799391-61.stm

On the surface, it doesn't seem too difficult, but I think the article sums up the issue. Looks like Crosby is interested in keeping the team mostly intact down the road and to do so with him receiving a max salary would be that much more difficult. However, if he accepts less than max, how much of a backlash from the PA will he receive? I'm sure accepting less would be fine, but you would have to draw the line somwhere (can't take too much less). I say somewhere around $9 million.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07186/799391-61.stm

On the surface, it doesn't seem too difficult, but I think the article sums up the issue. Looks like Crosby is interested in keeping the team mostly intact down the road and to do so with him receiving a max salary would be that much more difficult. However, if he accepts less than max, how much of a backlash from the PA will he receive? I'm sure accepting less would be fine, but you would have to draw the line somwhere (can't take too much less). I say somewhere around $9 million.

Agreed.

There can't be too much of a discount even if Crosby wants to keep the team in tact. I don't see him being allowed to take any less than $8.75 million, but realistically it'll probably be $9-$9.25 million per.

[HkytwnND 0]

Just give him part of the team like they did with Mario.

[JayUp88 1]

Letting him go would be the worst hit the pens could ever take.

[Airborn 0]

If Thornton and Iginla can take deals for less than they would have got. then I don't see how the NHLPA could come down on Crosby.

[toby91_ca 620]

If Thornton and Iginla can take deals for less than they would have got. then I don't see how the NHLPA could come down on Crosby.

I'm pretty sure he or his agent is already hearing from the PA. Crosby is considered the best player in the league right now and while Iginla and Thornton are right there in terms of playing ability, I think Crosby's value to a team goes beyond playing ability, he's definately the most marketable guy right now.

There would be nothing wrong with taking a discount to stay with the home team, you just can't take too much of a discount as in Crosby's case, it would almost be like setting a ceiling for the rest of the players, at least for now.

[Airborn 0]

I'm pretty sure he or his agent is already hearing from the PA. Crosby is considered the best player in the league right now and while Iginla and Thornton are right there in terms of playing ability, I think Crosby's value to a team goes beyond playing ability, he's definately the most marketable guy right now.

There would be nothing wrong with taking a discount to stay with the home team, you just can't take too much of a discount as in Crosby's case, it would almost be like setting a ceiling for the rest of the players, at least for now.

I agree it would set the ceiling for the top-end players, but is that a bad thing?

A max contract with the $50 million cap would be around $10 million. If a team has to give 1/5th to 1/6th of their entire budget to one guy, how much is left over for the 3rd and 4th line guys. That's a dangerous precedent for the NHLPA to push, because while it helps the upper-eschelon players, it screws the other 80%.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I'm pretty sure he or his agent is already hearing from the PA. Crosby is considered the best player in the league right now and while Iginla and Thornton are right there in terms of playing ability, I think Crosby's value to a team goes beyond playing ability, he's definately the most marketable guy right now.

There would be nothing wrong with taking a discount to stay with the home team, you just can't take too much of a discount as in Crosby's case, it would almost be like setting a ceiling for the rest of the players, at least for now.

Legally, is there anything the PA can do? The PA is already in disarray and void of any real cohesion. Could they blackball Sid or make getting benefits for himself difficult or deny him benefits? I'm thinking one could easily file suit and start a rather ugly public battle on Sid's behalf. Sid takes less money, PA punishes him, Sid sues, PA looks like a sham and bad guy????

I remember when Kariya and Selanne signed with the Aves and the PA went a bit apes***, nothing ever came of it.

Realistically, Sid is going to get paid and get paid very well for the rest of his days. He'll likely be the top paid player every year for the next 10 years, so who is to say what effect its really going to have. Sid will set the bar and if the bar is 8 million or 9 million what effect does that have on anybody else b/c who else is going to be near that anyway? Hard to say that it will impact anybody else's salary. It certainly wouldn't impact the 95% of players that make less than 4 million per year.

[toby91_ca 620]

Legally, is there anything the PA can do? The PA is already in disarray and void of any real cohesion. Could they blackball Sid or make getting benefits for himself difficult or deny him benefits? I'm thinking one could easily file suit and start a rather ugly public battle on Sid's behalf. Sid takes less money, PA punishes him, Sid sues, PA looks like a sham and bad guy????

I remember when Kariya and Selanne signed with the Aves and the PA went a bit apes***, nothing ever came of it.

Realistically, Sid is going to get paid and get paid very well for the rest of his days. He'll likely be the top paid player every year for the next 10 years, so who is to say what effect its really going to have. Sid will set the bar and if the bar is 8 million or 9 million what effect does that have on anybody else b/c who else is going to be near that anyway? Hard to say that it will impact anybody else's salary. It certainly wouldn't impact the 95% of players that make less than 4 million per year.

While I am no expert on the subject, I'm pretty sure from a legal perspective, the PA couldn't do a thing, but most players wouldn't want to piss everyone else off.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Sidenote: I probably should've put quotations around the word "allowed" in my initial post: (I don't see him being "allowed" to take any less than $8.75 million, but realistically it'll probably be $9-$9.25 million per.).

I meant to use the word loosely, as in there's nothing the PA could really do about it if Sid signs for $8 million, but it would create friction.

[eva unit zero 271]

If I were Crosby (or any upper-echelon player), I would sign a 15 year deal for the league minimum with a no-movement clause. That kind of cash is more than I'll ever need to make in a year. And it would be basically the same amount of cap space everyone else gets, except with one more top player.

[toby91_ca 620]

If I were Crosby (or any upper-echelon player), I would sign a 15 year deal for the league minimum with a no-movement clause. That kind of cash is more than I'll ever need to make in a year. And it would be basically the same amount of cap space everyone else gets, except with one more top player.

You say that now, but if you were in that position and were worth $5 million a year, no way would you accept $500k or $475k or whatever the minimum is this year.

When I was younger, I always thought to myself that I would be happy making $X thousand per year. Now that I have surpassed that amount (significantly), I couild never imagine earning less than I do now. It's all relative though, $X thousand is not worth the same this year as it was several years ago.

[eva unit zero 271]

You say that now, but if you were in that position and were worth $5 million a year, no way would you accept $500k or $475k or whatever the minimum is this year.

When I was younger, I always thought to myself that I would be happy making $X thousand per year. Now that I have surpassed that amount (significantly), I couild never imagine earning less than I do now. It's all relative though, $X thousand is not worth the same this year as it was several years ago.

I say this because my wife recently picked up a full time job with Comcast, basically doubling our income. We added a babysitter for about 100 bucks a week, and saved about 100 bucks per month in cable and internet bills (Comcast employees get that stuff free.) Other expenses haven't changed, and I simply can't imagine much else I would choose to go spend money on at this point. Making 450k a year would easily pay for everything in my life and a hefty chunk of savings. It would pay for my kids' education. I have no need for millions upon millions just to satisfy my ego.

[RedRockit 0]

Agreed.

There can't be too much of a discount even if Crosby wants to keep the team in tact. I don't see him being allowed to take any less than $8.75 million, but realistically it'll probably be $9-$9.25 million per.

But with nearly everyone signing for the big ginormous bucks, and now everyone that left to try to grab a decent contract under remaining cap....

[RedRockit 0]

I say this because my wife recently picked up a full time job with Comcast, basically doubling our income. We added a babysitter for about 100 bucks a week, and saved about 100 bucks per month in cable and internet bills (Comcast employees get that stuff free.) Other expenses haven't changed, and I simply can't imagine much else I would choose to go spend money on at this point. Making 450k a year would easily pay for everything in my life and a hefty chunk of savings. It would pay for my kids' education. I have no need for millions upon millions just to satisfy my ego.

It's not about satisfying YOUR ego, or your OWN requirements for sucess-- your own economical position is so irrelevant (although I'm very happy you're doing so well, and it's not like you're boasting, at all, at all).

It's about a player's pride in himself that can be tied to salary.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

If I am Crosby, this is what I do. I take about $6 per, no-trade clause, and have the right opt out after each season.

Why?

First, $6 even in the NHL is a lot of money. No, it isn't as muc has he could get, but what's more important, a few extra millions or winning? I'm sure Sid would rather have a few Cup rings when it's all said and done.

Second, Sid being a top player in the game would really set the bar for others. If Sid is only makin\g $6, how is a guy like Shanny worth even half that? If not league wide, it would have a dramtic effect on the Pens ability to keep all of it's young stars. Especially when they go to the table knowing Sid turned down the big dollars in order to keep the team together.

Third, the no-trade clause would allow Sid to pick his destination if the Pens were going to move him, however unlikely that may be.

Finally, the opt out clause would give Sid even more leverage with the Pens. If he doesn't like the way things are going, he could just opt out and be an UFA, which obviously wouldn't be until he is old enough.

I think the Crosby contract will set the tone for the next wave of stars. If I am Sid, I'd send a message.

[Izzy24 44]

If I were Crosby (or any upper-echelon player), I would sign a 15 year deal for the league minimum with a no-movement clause. That kind of cash is more than I'll ever need to make in a year. And it would be basically the same amount of cap space everyone else gets, except with one more top player.

Wow, great plan!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I say this because my wife recently picked up a full time job with Comcast, basically doubling our income. We added a babysitter for about 100 bucks a week, and saved about 100 bucks per month in cable and internet bills (Comcast employees get that stuff free.) Other expenses haven't changed, and I simply can't imagine much else I would choose to go spend money on at this point. Making 450k a year would easily pay for everything in my life and a hefty chunk of savings. It would pay for my kids' education. I have no need for millions upon millions just to satisfy my ego.

A baby sitter for 100 bucks a week? HOLY s***, send that sucker over to my house. Hell, when the wife and I go out for dinner and drinks its an 80-100 dollar night for the sitter to sit there for 5-7 hours, half of which my kids are asleep.

[Earthhuman 8]

You say that now, but if you were in that position and were worth $5 million a year, no way would you accept $500k or $475k or whatever the minimum is this year.

When I was younger, I always thought to myself that I would be happy making $X thousand per year. Now that I have surpassed that amount (significantly), I couild never imagine earning less than I do now. It's all relative though, $X thousand is not worth the same this year as it was several years ago.

Not to mention that many of those players are making all the money they will in their life in about 10-15 years. They have to live off of interest until they die.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

If I am Crosby, this is what I do. I take about $6 per, no-trade clause, and have the right opt out after each season.

Why?

First, $6 even in the NHL is a lot of money. No, it isn't as muc has he could get, but what's more important, a few extra millions or winning? I'm sure Sid would rather have a few Cup rings when it's all said and done.

Second, Sid being a top player in the game would really set the bar for others. If Sid is only makin\g $6, how is a guy like Shanny worth even half that? If not league wide, it would have a dramtic effect on the Pens ability to keep all of it's young stars. Especially when they go to the table knowing Sid turned down the big dollars in order to keep the team together.

Third, the no-trade clause would allow Sid to pick his destination if the Pens were going to move him, however unlikely that may be.

Finally, the opt out clause would give Sid even more leverage with the Pens. If he doesn't like the way things are going, he could just opt out and be an UFA, which obviously wouldn't be until he is old enough.

I think the Crosby contract will set the tone for the next wave of stars. If I am Sid, I'd send a message.

Well, that's exactly the point of the debate. If Crosby were worth 8-9 million would that make Iginla or Lecavalier worth 6-7? And then if Crosby were to only sign for 6 million as you say would that then mean Iginla and Lecavalier were now only worth 4-5 million? IMO, this debate doesn't affect Shanny nor anybody who doesn't make 4 million or more dollars, which frankly is the vast majority of NHLers. Crosby taking one million more or less doesn't move their salaries in a direct way, maybe indirectly based upon cap space however. On the other hand, top tier players would or could be dramatically affected by Crosby's salary. In this example it could cost someone like Iginla a couple million per year. Hence the idea that the PA would not look to kindly upon Crosby signing for 6 mill as you use in your example.

Personally, we all would think Cups and icing a strong team would trump individual salary/greed. However, I don't think Crosby or whomever will set the bar will do so in such a ridiculous fashion as to throw the entire salary structure of the top 50 players in the league out of whack. And that's who we're really talking about here, roughly 5 percent of NHLers. If he signs for 8.5 or 9.7, it probably doesn't have any effect on Iginla or Lecavalier or any other "STAR". If he goes wild and signs for 6 then it affects alot of top players, could possible instigate a riot and players/the PA would revolt and try to rip his head off every single game and do it in a rather obvious way.

I think the whole thing is much ado about nothing. He'll sign, get a pretty solid deal, probably won't be the highest he's ever paid frankly. It'll have about as much ripple effect as the fart I just let out in my office. Oops.

PS: Yes, I do realize Shanny made 4 mil last year. I still don't think Crosby's deal would affect him.

Edited July 5, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Not to mention that many of those players are making all the money they will in their life in about 10-15 years. They have to live off of interest until they die.

Very true, although they don't generally live like the average Joe. Maybe average Joe buys a 240K house, has a mortgage and a maybe a Ford Explorer and a mini-van for the wife. Maybe he bought one used for a good deal. Living within his means is average Joe.

Now you take non-average Joe, maybe he's Joe Sakic or Joe Thornton. His home probably cost upwards of 800K or hell, likely 7 figures, much more than average Joe. Super Joe probably rolls up in a 90K benz or a sweet 911 Turbo he shelled out 160K for. Still, Super Joe is probably living well within his means.

One thing i've learned as i've grown up, gotten married and started to take a more active role in the family business is this: The more you earn, the more you spend. The more you earn, the nicer s*** you tend to buy. Doesn't work that way for everyone, sometimes people are frugal by nature. But like I said to my wife the other day when we were discussing a friend of our parents whom had just retired and bought himself a Ferrari. My wife thought that was simply ridiculous. I asked her why? Sure, it may seem ridiculous if you don't have that kind of money, but if you do, its not ridiculous. Its all relative. If you can comfortably afford a Ferrari and it makes you happy to own one, then why the hell would you buy a Chevrolet or a Hyundai?

I don't know but when people argue that players make sooo much money and they don't have to work the rest of their lives and they should be happy with 300k or 500k or 1 mil versus 7 mil, i just short of shrug. Until you have the ability, good fortune or just plain luck into being wealthy, it all seems like greedy, ridiculous, self-indulgent bulls***. And maybe it is. But until you pay more in taxes/year than the average American earns you don't really know what its like to have a ton of money and you certainly don't "KNOW" how you'd act, spend or behave. Everyone has an idea but they don't really know for sure.

Personally, i'm nowhere near that good fortune but i'm sure as hell striving for it!

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Well, that's exactly the point of the debate. If Crosby were worth 8-9 million would that make Iginla or Lecavalier worth 6-7? And then if Crosby were to only sign for 6 million as you say would that then mean Iginla and Lecavalier were now only worth 4-5 million? IMO, this debate doesn't affect Shanny nor anybody who doesn't make 4 million or more dollars, which frankly is the vast majority of NHLers. Crosby taking one million more or less doesn't move their salaries in a direct way, maybe indirectly based upon cap space however. On the other hand, top tier players would or could be dramatically affected by Crosby's salary. In this example it could cost someone like Iginla a couple million per year. Hence the idea that the PA would not look to kindly upon Crosby signing for 6 mill as you use in your example.

Personally, we all would think Cups and icing a strong team would trump individual salary/greed. However, I don't think Crosby or whomever will set the bar will do so in such a ridiculous fashion as to throw the entire salary structure of the top 50 players in the league out of whack. And that's who we're really talking about here, roughly 5 percent of NHLers. If he signs for 8.5 or 9.7, it probably doesn't have any effect on Iginla or Lecavalier or any other "STAR". If he goes wild and signs for 6 then it affects alot of top players, could possible instigate a riot and players/the PA would revolt and try to rip his head off every single game and do it in a rather obvious way.

I think the whole thing is much ado about nothing. He'll sign, get a pretty solid deal, probably won't be the highest he's ever paid frankly. It'll have about as much ripple effect as the fart I just let out in my office. Oops.

PS: Yes, I do realize Shanny made 4 mil last year. I still don't think Crosby's deal would affect him.

I think what it boils down to is whether or not Crosby wants to make a point. Signing for $1 or 2 less than league max isn't really doing that. If league max is $10.6, signing for $8 or $9 isn't a big deal, but $6 or $7, that is. Maybe he signs a deal that had easily attainable bonuses to help the Pens ice a strong team.

My ponit is that if Crosby wants to, he can really make a statement, and help the Pens.

[jagr68 0]

Yeah, I agree. If Sid wants to make a statement he sure could. I think he'll take a hometown discount, but it won't be in the 6 or 7 million range. It will most likely be 8 or 9. If he did take 6 million or even 7 million it would shake up the league tad. Mostly for superstars.

If Sid is truely focused on winning Championships with the Pens, by taking less money would be huge. It would allow them to sign Fleury, Staal, Malkin, Whitney, and Esposito to long term deals also. Keep the core of the team together.

Mario used to take less money than he probably deserved and I remember when living in PA hearing about how he'd get phonecalls from NHLPA reps saying he should take more money. Sure would be nice for the Pens and their fans if Sid took a significant amount less.

In a way, it could help a few teams out. Tampa Bay, for example. When Lecavalier is a UFA after this season, Tampa may have a easier time trying to resign him if he took a little bit less also. Hopefully he won't demand the max amount when a guy like Sid is taking a lot less. So maybe Tampa can afford to keep him, because as most know, they tied up almost 30 million dollars to four players right now (Vinny, Richards, St. Louis, Boyle). It will just get worse for them if Vinny takes 6 or 7 million instead of 9.5 or 10 (or whatever the max is).