Stars sign Brad Winchester

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Not true he played in their first 5 playoff games and was approved to have his name on the cup.

The Ducks went 24-9-4 last year when Parros dressed.

They also went 12-5 without him in the playoffs and beat the sens in 5 games without him.

[vangvace 12]

At the very least, you couldve had him and Kopecky battle it out for the 12th forward spot, and the loser is your 13th.

Winchester and Kopecky duel at dawn?

They also went 12-5 without him in the playoffs and beat the sens in 5 games without him.

Okaaay... just thought I'd correct your misinformation, but what da ya know... the 13th forward didn't play the "entire" playoffs.

[vangvace 12]

even Don Cherry gave props to Datsyuk "throwing his weight around."

Not directed just quoted...

But do you really want the skilled ones to do the banging or some "pylon" doing the hitting/being hit all season long? It takes it's toll as we've seen many of times with teams not having enough left/ too hurt come playoffs.

Or is it more of a tread water, pray nothing bad happens, and pick up a "playoff savior" / big guy / power forward come the deadline?

I don't really have a problem with waiting on getting this mythical "top 6" guy we seem to be missing but if our bunch of home growns can't get'r done then I would rather see some protection for those who can then keep throwing "skill" out there hoping for lightning to strike again. Especially with the expectation that everyone has that we're going to coast to another division title.

[e_mcgrath88 0]

lmao.. i mentioned Winchester the other day and no one gave a rats ass or thought twice about it.. now that another team got him everyone throws up their arms in disbelief. Sometimes i think these threads begin just to bash Holland.

[superstarsingh 23]

I wanted him to become a Wing. Oh well, no big deal.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Not directed just quoted...

But do you really want the skilled ones to do the banging or some "pylon" doing the hitting/being hit all season long? It takes it's toll as we've seen many of times with teams not having enough left/ too hurt come playoffs.

Or is it more of a tread water, pray nothing bad happens, and pick up a "playoff savior" / big guy / power forward come the deadline?

I don't really have a problem with waiting on getting this mythical "top 6" guy we seem to be missing but if our bunch of home growns can't get'r done then I would rather see some protection for those who can then keep throwing "skill" out there hoping for lightning to strike again. Especially with the expectation that everyone has that we're going to coast to another division title.

This is the irony of the situation - Everybody keeps on talking about how we need all these tough guys to protect our "skilled" players, yet I only count 4 guys that need protecting - Hank, Datsyuk, Flip, and Hudler - and even then the "protecting" is relative. Franzen, Draper, Maltby, Cleary, and Kopecky can all take care of themselves, as can Lidstrom, Chelios, Lilja, Lebda, and Kronwall. Well have to see about Rafalski, and supposedly Grigorenko plays a crash and bang game so.....help me out here. Do we need 2 scrubs to every skilled player?

Everybody wants scrubs on this team to protect the soft top sixers that we dont have because we have so many scrubs.

At this point, I look at our forward roster and I see crap. The tough guys that we have arent really tough, the 2nd line scorers that we have arent really scorers, and the only 3 guys that can really do anything need to be on a line together to really do some damage. IMO, nobody is going to be happy with this roster until MAYBE the trade deadline at this point. Unless for some reason we find a way to trade Sammy, sign Asham/Gelinas and/or trade for Mayers/Lapointe, while trading Lilja and add Markov/Vishnevski/Sutton. And of course this would only satisfy the need for "toughness" and "grit" and would require about 8 moves for us to actually be a bona fide "tough" team. Then of course it would take us another 8 moves to give us some offense and wed likely only have a few months to do it after making so many moves to satisfy the "grit" department that we're probably looking at a 2 year makeover period before the majority of people are happy.

So honestly, I could care less what the hell we do. Maybe Ill get my wish and well add Raffi Torres, Mike Fisher, and Shea Weber in the next 6 weeks.

[Barnes52 0]

All I'll say is that NO ONE wanted Cleary, he had to be invited in for a try out and signed to a 2-way contract. Look at what his career has become. So the argument that he sucks because Edmonton didn't sign him is crap. Edmonton probably felt he was redundant on their team and they wanted to save some money and go after first line players. Lou is right, you take chances on people to address a need. It's a 1yr deal at league minimum so if it doesn't work out move on, no harm, no foul. You can't wait every trade deadline to address your needs, because you'll end up giving up prospects or draft picks, something this team should not continue to do. I loved the Bertuzzi deal at the deadline but we got lucky, if Bert was healthy he would've cost much more

[Yzerfan1999 81]

All I'll say is that NO ONE wanted Cleary, he had to be invited in for a try out and signed to a 2-way contract. Look at what his career has become. So the argument that he sucks because Edmonton didn't sign him is crap. Edmonton probably felt he was redundant on their team and they wanted to save some money and go after first line players. Lou is right, you take chances on people to address a need. It's a 1yr deal at league minimum so if it doesn't work out move on, no harm, no foul. You can't wait every trade deadline to address your needs, because you'll end up giving up prospects or draft picks, something this team should not continue to do. I loved the Bertuzzi deal at the deadline but we got lucky, if Bert was healthy he would've cost much more

It seems no one has grasped what i am trying to say. Cleary put up BIG numbers in Jr. and scouts knew he had the potential to score - why NOT take a chance on him and invite him to training camp. And like I said earlier, even Kopecky put up good numbers in the AHL. Winchester hasn't put up big numbers any level. Why would Holland gamble on this guy? If he was going to take a chance on some low level player, he has to at least have some potential. Winchester does not bring much to the table for the Wings.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

It seems no one has grasped what i am trying to say. Cleary put up BIG numbers in Jr. and scouts knew he had the potential to score - why NOT take a chance on him and invite him to training camp. And like I said earlier, even Kopecky put up good numbers in the AHL. Winchester hasn't put up big numbers any level. Why would Holland gamble on this guy? If he was going to take a chance on some low level player, he has to at least have some potential. Winchester does not bring much to the table for the Wings.

Huh? You're really off on this one Yzerfan. You dont count 26 goals in 40 games at Hamilton as big numbers? Kopecky's high is only 32 in 77. Also, Cleary never matched that output at Hamilton either! So i dont know what in the world you mean by that. Bringing up the minors stats actually just helped to prove my point that Winchester was worth a shot.

All I'll say is that NO ONE wanted Cleary, he had to be invited in for a try out and signed to a 2-way contract. Look at what his career has become. So the argument that he sucks because Edmonton didn't sign him is crap. Edmonton probably felt he was redundant on their team and they wanted to save some money and go after first line players. Lou is right, you take chances on people to address a need. It's a 1yr deal at league minimum so if it doesn't work out move on, no harm, no foul. You can't wait every trade deadline to address your needs, because you'll end up giving up prospects or draft picks, something this team should not continue to do. I loved the Bertuzzi deal at the deadline but we got lucky, if Bert was healthy he would've cost much more

BARNES! Where the hell you been? I feel like i havent seen a post from you in forever! And of course, we're in agreement again.

[eva unit zero 271]

The fact that he thinks a useless scrub like Kopecky is a better player and a better fit for this team means he has failed.

Oh wait, I couldn't have expected anything else from Holland. Winchester is gritty and Kopecky isn't. That makes Kopecky a perfect fit here! /sarcasm

And who says Winchester would have even come to Detroit.

This is not fantasy hockey or NHL 2007. The player has to actually be interested in the team before he'll sign. Rafalski is a good example. Other teams offered more for him, yet he signed in Detroit.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

And who says Winchester would have even come to Detroit.

This is not fantasy hockey or NHL 2007. The player has to actually be interested in the team before he'll sign. Rafalski is a good example. Other teams offered more for him, yet he signed in Detroit.

Winchester signed though on a team that already has Krys Barch, so he knows he's stepping into a potential competition. On the Wings, toughness wise there is no battle. I think if Detroit wouldve inquired about him, he wouldve came. He'd have the best oppurtunity as he's stepping into somewhere where what he does is unique to the team.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

And who says Winchester would have even come to Detroit.

This is not fantasy hockey or NHL 2007. The player has to actually be interested in the team before he'll sign. Rafalski is a good example. Other teams offered more for him, yet he signed in Detroit.

He signed for the league minimum for god sakes. Rafalski's "hometown" discount is 6 million. Not a great comparision.

Also , how many offers do you think Winchester got? If he only got a league minimum offer from other teams , ones better then Dallas , he'd more then likely sign with them. I can imagine he only got a couple and Dallas were the best team to offer

[Kp-Wings 3]

He signed for the league minimum for god sakes. Rafalski's "hometown" discount is 6 million. Not a great comparision.

Also , how many offers do you think Winchester got? If he only got a league minimum offer from other teams , ones better then Dallas , he'd more then likely sign with them. I can imagine he only got a couple and Dallas were the best team to offer

I love your new signature. I'll plan on adding something similar to that.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Huh? You're really off on this one Yzerfan. You dont count 26 goals in 40 games at Hamilton as big numbers? Kopecky's high is only 32 in 77. Also, Cleary never matched that output at Hamilton either! So i dont know what in the world you mean by that. Bringing up the minors stats actually just helped to prove my point that Winchester was worth a shot.

BARNES! Where the hell you been? I feel like i havent seen a post from you in forever! And of course, we're in agreement again.

Your taking one season of minor play as his career potential? Sweet - he averaged a point per game ONCE in the minors and averages a point about every 8 games at the NHL level. Kopecky also had 72 points and managed to play a whole season in GR.

Look, im not a fan of Kopecky - my argument is that the Wings ALREADY HAVE KOPECKY UNDER CONTRACT.. Why would they offer another contract to a similar player (stats wise) when they already have a number of 13th forwards. It doesnt make sense. Offer up minor stats all you want - Kopecky's are better on almost every level. I'll admit, i really dont think Kopecky is the answer to the Wings offensive problems, but the essence of this argument was that you people were flipping out at Holland for NOT signing Brad Winchester. I still can't believe it...who is next? Why don't you guys just find the most random free agent on the market who is over six feet, and beg Holland to sign him.

Holland has made more Stanley Cup winners/contenders in the last 10 years then any other GM. Look at his supporting cast in Nill and Yzerman. They all know what it takes to make a franchise successful. How can you guys ***** at him for not signing a no name 'enforcer'? Trust me, i LIVE in Edmonton, i watched this pathetic excuse for a forward 'play' 57 games this year - (largely because of Oiler injuries) and he didnt add a spark or grit to any game. He was VERY forgettable.

I guarantee you that half of the board would be up in arms if Winchester was signed by the Wings, and rightfully so - there is no frickin' point. Thats half a million dollars worth of salary that could have been offered to another player, and after the Oilers/Smyth fiasco at the trade deadline, we all know how far half a mil. goes.

And Lou - if you want to compare minor stats

Kopecky

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?i...e=nhl-red_wings

Winchester

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?i...bname=nhl-stars

You can compare... i think Kopecky's numbers (while not great) are favourable. He seems to be able to adjust nicely to the league he is playing in after a couple of years.

Once again, im not arguing for Kopecky's sake, they are both sub par fourth liners. I just think its silly to ***** out Holland for not signing Brad Winchester of all people. It's like KP is going to give up all hope for the Wings just cause Winchester of all people is not platooning our fourth line. Winchester is not a one of a kind player.

[Kp-Wings 3]

It's like KP is going to give up all hope for the Wings just cause Winchester of all people is not platooning our fourth line. Winchester is not a one of a kind player.

Thank you for pulling my name out of the hat, thus dragging me back into an argument I was done with.

My problem is that the managment sees Kopecky as the better player. Why not just dump him on some team in Switzerland or something, and then sign Winchester? I mean, they did it last year with Krys Kolanos when he was acting all pissy in GR. It's not like this is something that would never happen.

I'm not giving up all hope because the Wings didn't sign Brad Winchester. That's silly. This team has way too many other problems for me to notice then just that.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I love your new signature. I'll plan on adding something similar to that.

Yours is pretty good too!