canadienhater 0 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 I think your definition of toughness and Holland's definition of toughness differ. I see toughness as guys that battle every night and pay the price to score over and over again. Yzerman was toughness. Cleary is toughness. In fact, this whole team is pretty tough, as evidenced by last year's playoffs. N.I.R.F which means nervous irrational red wing fans well i understand them being nervous about not having enough scoring but its not like the wings don t try to win every year holland and nill have not failed us yet so why will they start now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Well first off, I wouldnt say blitzed. For everyone who talks about Anaheim's "luckiness" in game 5, if Robert Lang doesnt score that cheapy against Nabokov in the closing moments of game 4 what happens with that series? Its 3-1 SJ and probably over. I don't disagree and I'm not saying Anaheim got "lucky" anymore than the Wings got "lucky" to win their 3 cups. You need breaks to win the cup, more breaks than the other teams. Anaheim got the most breaks and they were ultimately the best team in the game last year. Secondly, Calgary was NOT one of the 3 toughest teams in the league. As you'll agree with, this was not the same Calgary team toughness wise compared to '04. Were they wimpy? Of course not, but they werent the same rough and tumble Flames team of the past. Upfront there wasnt a whole lot aside from Iginla and Primeau. The defense was really where their toughness lied, but again...for everyone who talks about the Schneider injury, Calgary was without Regehr in their series. Did i think the Flames would win? Yes, but im just saying its not the equivalent to beating the '04 version. While I agree with you I was going with the majority opinion that the lemmings think around here. Calgary has less toughness than the Wings do upfront, obviously their toughness is almost all on the back end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canadienhater 0 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 please STFU about O'Neil. He's softer than French cheese I remember O Neil in the playoffs getting hit in the eye with the puck and scoring a goal with his almost swollen shut so if that is soft i want them all to be soft Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 I factor toughness more into the San Jose series. In the Calgary series we were much more talented and out played them in every game despite losing 2 two games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 I factor toughness more into the San Jose series. In the Calgary series we were much more talented and out played them in every game despite losing 2 two games. You could also make the argument that San Jose looked lost in that series and barely even tried. I'm not going to take anything away from the Wings during the playoffs, since they showed me something I haven't seen in a Red Wings team since our last Cup win. But if we're going to be relying on Lilja to be our tough guy, then there are some problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 ...Adam Hall, Jeff O'Neil now, Sergei Fedorov at the deadline... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Basically hes saying that our toughness comes from two players. One of who is ancient and another one who has yet to impress. Wow amazing. We'll be beating those ducks into the ground without question! Bodies will fly everywhere and everyone will be petrified of us... hell it'll be like having Probert and Kocur back... Toughness? f*** off. The Wings matched the Flames and the Sharks, two teams known for physical play, in the playoffs, and beat both teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 ...Adam Hall, Jeff O'Neil now, Sergei Fedorov at the deadline... Scratch Fedorov and I don't mind that plan too much. Well, I have to say, I'm not really all that big on O'Neill either. His fear of flying, declining play, and sometimes laziness is a turnoff. But, he is a scoring winger, and has put up solid numbers before. It just depends on a number of factors I guess. I would love Adam Hall here, but because he isn't the fabled top 6 winger that everyone wants I'll get my head chewed off for suggesting so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 I'm pretty surprised, though I guess I shouldn't be, that people are still believe that the Wings are the "softest" team in the league, especially after last season. We blitzed through Calgary and San Jose without much trouble and had it not been for a few bounces in the Anaheim series we probably would've won the cup. We played the 3 "toughest" teams in the league and beat 2 and barely lost to the third. I think it's foolish to even think that the Wings are any less "tough" than last season. Losing Markov was a bit of a blow on the backend, but I don't think it is such a major blow that we're going to go from tough enough to beat Calgary and San Jose to 1st round exit, sorry, I liked Markov but he didn't make that much of a difference and neither did Bertuzzi, who I also would've liked to see re-signed at a reasonable price. If toughness defined is what Calgary is or San Jose is then I don't want to be that because their philosophy doesn't translate into very much at all. If Anaheim is the definition then fine, but our philosophy and gameplan seems to be enough to get us where ever we want. Our players are now battle tested and they know what it takes to win, a lot of our losses were addition by subtraction. We've gotten tougher by losing players. Anyone who thinks the Wings are the "softest" team in the league really need to re-watch the playoffs from this year. Every team could always get bigger, stronger, faster, but we're tough enough to compete with anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lou_Siffer 1 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 I don't disagree and I'm not saying Anaheim got "lucky" anymore than the Wings got "lucky" to win their 3 cups. You need breaks to win the cup, more breaks than the other teams. Anaheim got the most breaks and they were ultimately the best team in the game last year. While I agree with you I was going with the majority opinion that the lemmings think around here. Calgary has less toughness than the Wings do upfront, obviously their toughness is almost all on the back end. Really what the playoffs did for me was to show me that certain players i doubted, like Cleary, is actually somebody i'd really want out there. I didnt know he had that playoff warrior gear in him. But overall team-wise, i still have issues as im sure you can tell. I'd rather go in with a team that has more naturally physical guys on it rather than have to hope that a bunch of guys who play pretty darn soft in the regular season are able to kick it into another level. Plus, not to mention just from an entertainment standpoint alone i'd like a few crashers and a couple guys willing to throw, you know? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Holland is a moron. I can already see these players he's negotiating with are going to be some useless, non-gritty scrub centers. Like a Greg Johnson type signing. Holland's baseball comment was just plain stupid. This team doesn't have any toughness (ok, they have some, but it's very depleted). Why is he so blind to this issue? Why? I don't get it. For him being such a great GM like people always say, he sure has a hard time filling the biggest hole the Wings have had since the lockout ended. God damn it. See one of my last responses. It's still a joke in here to read people STILL thinking the Wings are "soft". Do you people not realize the teams they played in the playoffs?!?!!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sverige 0 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 this interview is from wxyz. there's also interviews with brendan smith, justin abdelkader, and cheli's oldest kid...don't know if this has already been posted...it was nice to hear smith...he seems really excited to be a wing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Really what the playoffs did for me was to show me that certain players i doubted, like Cleary, is actually somebody i'd really want out there. I didnt know he had that playoff warrior gear in him. But overall team-wise, i still have issues as im sure you can tell. I'd rather go in with a team that has more naturally physical guys on it rather than have to hope that a bunch of guys who play pretty darn soft in the regular season are able to kick it into another level. Plus, not to mention just from an entertainment standpoint alone i'd like a few crashers and a couple guys willing to throw, you know? I think this is your main issue because I get the feeling if we would've won the cup you still wouldn't have been fully happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Really what the playoffs did for me was to show me that certain players i doubted, like Cleary, is actually somebody i'd really want out there. I didnt know he had that playoff warrior gear in him. But overall team-wise, i still have issues as im sure you can tell. I'd rather go in with a team that has more naturally physical guys on it rather than have to hope that a bunch of guys who play pretty darn soft in the regular season are able to kick it into another level. Plus, not to mention just from an entertainment standpoint alone i'd like a few crashers and a couple guys willing to throw, you know? Agreed very much. Especially on the last part. I know you all think I'm some kind of idiot for hoping for more fighters, but as a kid that grew up watching Probert/Kocur/McCarty naturally I like fighting. It stinks not having a single guy on the Wings even willing to do that anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viperar 16 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 this is awesome to hear, thanks for the awesome news report arice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bannedforlife 403 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Holland is a moron. I can already see these players he's negotiating with are going to be some useless, non-gritty scrub centers. Like a Greg Johnson type signing. Holland's baseball comment was just plain stupid. This team doesn't have any toughness (ok, they have some, but it's very depleted). Why is he so blind to this issue? Why? I don't get it. For him being such a great GM like people always say, he sure has a hard time filling the biggest hole the Wings have had since the lockout ended. God damn it. Thank you! I'm so glad someone finally had the balls to call it like it is. Yes! Holland is a moron! Ken Holland is the worst GM in the entire league and anyone who thinks he isn't is a ******* tool shed. And that includes Steve Yzerman, Mike Ilitch and Scotty Bowman. I mean, what is he thinking? Has he even called Arron Asham??? If only this team had Arron Asham to anchor the fourth line, we would instantly Optimus Prime-it from a bunch of ***** euro figure skaters to the biggest, baddest rough and tumble sheriffs of the wild wild western conference. As a matter of fact, I'm going to go on record as saying that if Kenny "No-Grit" Holland doesn't immediately lock up Arron "Rock-Hard" Asham to a contract of no less than 20 years, I will immediately and permanently boycott all things red. And everything with wings. And especially everything that is red and has wings (sorry Satan) And he better hurry, because you just know every other GM in the league has to be beating Asham's door in right about now. What an ass bag.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Really what the playoffs did for me was to show me that certain players i doubted, like Cleary, is actually somebody i'd really want out there. I didnt know he had that playoff warrior gear in him. But overall team-wise, i still have issues as im sure you can tell. I'd rather go in with a team that has more naturally physical guys on it rather than have to hope that a bunch of guys who play pretty darn soft in the regular season are able to kick it into another level. Plus, not to mention just from an entertainment standpoint alone i'd like a few crashers and a couple guys willing to throw, you know? Can thinks be improved as they stand? Yes. Is the present situation a catastrophe? No, though many would have us see it so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Scratch Fedorov and I don't mind that plan too much. Well, I have to say, I'm not really all that big on O'Neill either. His fear of flying, declining play, and sometimes laziness is a turnoff. But, he is a scoring winger, and has put up solid numbers before. It just depends on a number of factors I guess. I would love Adam Hall here, but because he isn't the fabled top 6 winger that everyone wants I'll get my head chewed off for suggesting so. ...thing is, we don't need a top 6 forward, we have: Filpulla - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Franzen - Zetterberg - Sammmy Hall - ??????? - Grigorenko Cleary - Draper - Maltby (Kopecky) ...maybe the ??????? can be Hudler, but I seriously hope not... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 And if we get an injury in the playoffs? We need some more scoring depth, but I don't think it has to be right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 ...Adam Hall, Jeff O'Neil now, Sergei Fedorov at the deadline... At the deadline? How about Chris Clark, Marian Hossa, and Mike Commodore at the deadline? How about Aaron Ward, Bill Guerin, and Brian Rolston at the deadline? How about Matt Cooke and David Legwand at the deadline? Niklas Hagman? Stu Barnes? Martin Lapointe? Derian Hatcher? JP Dumont? And if we get an injury in the playoffs? We need some more scoring depth, but I don't think it has to be right now. Agreed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 At the deadline? How about Chris Clark, Marian Hossa, and Mike Commodore at the deadline? How about Aaron Ward, Bill Guerin, and Brian Rolston at the deadline? How about Matt Cooke and David Legwand at the deadline? Niklas Hagman? Stu Barnes? Martin Lapointe? Derian Hatcher? JP Dumont? Clark , sure he'd probably be cheapish Hossa , would cost way too much Commodore , would be a great option Ward , Same as Commodore Guerin , I'll pass Rolston , I doubt Minnesota would trade him Cooke , Would stop my bitching about grit Legwand , Nashville would probably want alot Hagman , Nah Barnes , Maybe Lapointe , sure but half the people on the board wouldnt Hatcher , Dumont , for sure There are some good options at the deadline this year I must say! Alot of them could be great additions to the wings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lebda4Pres Report post Posted July 7, 2007 (edited) ...thing is, we don't need a top 6 forward, we have: Filpulla - Datsyuk - Holmstrom Franzen - Zetterberg - Sammmy Hall - ??????? - Grigorenko Cleary - Draper - Maltby (Kopecky) ...maybe the ??????? can be Hudler, but I seriously hope not... Since when did we have Adam Hall? Edited July 7, 2007 by Lebda4Pres Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Thank you! I'm so glad someone finally had the balls to call it like it is. Yes! Holland is a moron! Ken Holland is the worst GM in the entire league and anyone who thinks he isn't is a ******* tool shed. And that includes Steve Yzerman, Mike Ilitch and Scotty Bowman. I mean, what is he thinking? Has he even called Arron Asham??? If only this team had Arron Asham to anchor the fourth line, we would instantly Optimus Prime-it from a bunch of ***** euro figure skaters to the biggest, baddest rough and tumble sheriffs of the wild wild western conference. As a matter of fact, I'm going to go on record as saying that if Kenny "No-Grit" Holland doesn't immediately lock up Arron "Rock-Hard" Asham to a contract of no less than 20 years, I will immediately and permanently boycott all things red. And everything with wings. And especially everything that is red and has wings (sorry Satan) And he better hurry, because you just know every other GM in the league has to be beating Asham's door in right about now. What an ass bag.... Did I ever say Asham would fix all the problems? No I didn't. Please find where I did. Some of you guys like being ass bags yourself just so you can get a few laughs from other members. Your entire post was so far off base. But yet, what can I expect from a Ken Holland slappie himself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HockeyCrazy3033 168 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 I remember O Neil in the playoffs getting hit in the eye with the puck and scoring a goal with his almost swollen shut so if that is soft i want them all to be soft At the deadline? How about Matt Cooke HELL YES. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted July 7, 2007 Since when did we have Adam Hall? ...that is assuming we sign him, sorry I didn't explan it further... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
