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wingsownnhl43

We need a forward

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You're welcome to do that, if you'd like to be a total d-bag.

Oh, well. I guess you know best.

My dear boy: if I thought I had the say you claim I think I do, I'd have threatened to ban you long ago.

That's precisely the thing that makes you come off as an *******, besides being incapable of getting a joke.

I don't care if you can't pull through on that statement, even saying something like that is weird and wrong. You didn't reply to Matt's response in that Stickied thread, but try taking the idea of that to mind again. Or anyone's words that ask you why you're such a confrontational prick.

I like you aside from that, I simply have no idea what makes you the way you are.

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Guest Crymson

That's precisely the thing that makes you come off as an *******, besides being incapable of getting a joke.

I don't care if you can't pull through on that statement, even saying something like that is weird and wrong. You didn't reply to Matt's response in that Stickied thread, but try taking the idea of that to mind again. Or anyone's words that ask you why you're such a confrontational prick.

I like you aside from that, I simply have no idea what makes you the way you are.

I mean no harm. I've made that clear repeatedly. It's out of my control if people take personally what is said in a transient discussion and then hold it as a lasting grudge. Such is, to be honest, unfortunate for both parties involved.

Regardless, you seem to have misunderstood my comment. If you'd like to pursue this further--anyone--we'd best do so in PM, which I'd be happy to do.

Edited by Crymson

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Petr Cajanek, Mike Comrie, Pavol Demitra, Jean-Pierre Dumont, Sergei Federov, Ruslan Fedotenko, Dany Heatley, Jochen Hecht, Robert Holik, Tomas Holstrom, Chris Kunitz, Daymond Langkow, David Legwand, Marian Hossa, Patrick Marleau, Brendan Morrison, Ladislav Nagy, Markus Naslund, Owen Nolan, Vaclav Prospal, Mark Recchi, Gary Roberts, Brian Rolston, Steve Rucchin, Martin Rucinsky, Joe Sakic, Miroslav Satan, Cory Stillman, Martin Straka, Mats Sundin, David Vyborny and Doug Weight.

I just straight copied that list of FAs from Spector's blog and some of the people might not be available when the time comes, but I'd still say that next year will offer MUCH better players than this year. Including some fun people like Heatley, Hossa, some unsignables like Sakic and Sundin aaaaaaaaaand FEDOROV.

Tomas Holmstrom isnt one of them. I also dont think Cajanek has been signed yet, so he might not be one either. All the other ones are correct.

Rolston, Hossa, Heatley, Marleau, Legwand. Wow.

Yeah, that's sure how it is. Just how you feel this 2nd line is going to carry the team to the Cup finals, right?

Do people actually have this approach? From what Ive seen on these boards, there are two camps of thought: The first one who wants Hollands head for not making this team tougher NOW NOW NOW. And the other camp that is saying, its not great right now, but wed rather wait around and sign something of use later on when more teams have a better idea of where theyre going, rather than fill up roster spots and cap space by signing the UFA leftovers.

Edited by YoungGuns1340

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Do people actually have this approach? From what Ive seen on these boards, there are two camps of thought: The first one who wants Hollands head for not making this team tougher NOW NOW NOW. And the other camp that is saying, its not great right now, but wed rather wait around and sign something of use later on when more teams have a better idea of where theyre going, rather than fill up roster spots and cap space by signing the UFA leftovers.

To be honest I would be ok with waiting until next year to sign someone altho O'niell would be an ok signing right now...

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It's out of my control if people take personally what is said in a discussion

No, it isn't. If you start yelling at someone to their face and then say, well I MEAN no harm, do you actually think it's in their court to shoulder interpreting you correctly?

That's an exaggeration, but it's to bring my point home. I don't care if someone "doesn't mean to be a jerk"--it matters whether they are or not, that's it. I ain't out to label you one, but you, often, are a hostile jerk and look like a control-freak on these boards. You don't have to be either, but you are.

It's actually strange, because you're so on the money about people having responsibility for panicking around here about Kenny or team grit or how they choose to regard the Wings... yet you don't pay attention to how much of an able choice it is for you in affecting how other people will, quite naturally, look back at you.

Do people actually have this approach? From what Ive seen on these boards, there are two camps of thought: The first one who wants Hollands head for not making this team tougher NOW NOW NOW.

And the other camp that is saying, its not great right now, but wed rather wait around and sign something of use later on when more teams have a better idea of where theyre going, rather than fill up roster spots and cap space by signing the UFA leftovers.

I think the other camp is the wiser and less reactionary, but it's not like I don't understand the first though. We need grit, and people want it now.

It's not like we can really fix it at this point anyway, we might not have been able to do it affordably on July 1st either. But you're right on how the split goes on "what should we do"?

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Guest Crymson

No, it isn't. If you start yelling at someone to their face and then say, well I MEAN no harm, do you actually think it's in their court to shoulder interpreting you correctly?

That's an exaggeration, but it's to bring my point home. I don't care if someone "doesn't mean to be a jerk"--it matters whether they are or not, that's it. I ain't out to label you one, but you, often, are a hostile jerk and look like a control-freak on these boards. You don't have to be either, but you are.

It's actually strange, because you're so on the money about people having responsibility for panicking around here about Kenny or team grit or how they choose to regard the Wings... yet you don't pay attention to how much of an able choice it is for you in affecting how other people will, quite naturally, look back at you.

Like I said--if you're interested in continuing your present train of thought, this thread is not the proper location.

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I don't understand why everyone is so upset about Bertuzzi and Schneider in Anaheim.

Bertuzzi is a SIGNIFICANT DOWNGRADE from Selanne.

Schneider is a SIGNIFICANT DOWNGRADE from Niedermayer.

So Anaheim has gotten worse, as a team.

Now, compare with Detroit.

Rafalski is a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over Schneider.

Bertuzzi was a nonfactor in the playoffs and basically did not play in the regular season.

Calder was a healthy scratch many nights inthe playoffs, and did nothing when he was in the lineup. Not enough regular season games to be a factor.

Lang was horrid in the playoffs and his offensive contribution will be easily replaced by guys like Hudler, Filppula, and Grigorenko. Addition by subtraction.

So basically, Detroit nearly beat Anaheim with Schneider out of the lineup. ANd now, Anaheim has gotten worse while Detroit has gotten better. Anaheim replaced their best player with a guy the Wings upgraded on. Anaheim had two of the three best defensemen on the ice in the series. Were that series played with current rosters, that advantage belongs to Detroit.

With Anaheim and Detroit making the moves they did, Detroit is, right now, the league's best team. Assuming Hudler, Kopecky, Filppula, and Grigorenko are all on the regular roster, and Quincey is the 7th defenseman, the Wings are the best team on paper.

SPOT ON!!!! I don't think its time to panic just yet!! Everyone has to remember that the only team Anaheim had to play in the playoffs was Detroit, while we had to go through a tough Calgary, and San Jose. They had Minnesota :thumbdown: Vancouver :thumbdown: and then Ottawa , They got a good draw, just like the Wings did in 1998. You have to realize that Bertuzzi is buddies with Burke, so with that being said, I think Anaheim over paid for him, there is no way in Holy Hell that I resign Bert for 4 mill, a year, Sorry!!

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SPOT ON!!!! I don't think its time to panic just yet!! Everyone has to remember that the only team Anaheim had to play in the playoffs was Detroit, while we had to go through a tough Calgary, and San Jose. They had Minnesota :thumbdown: Vancouver :thumbdown: and then Ottawa , They got a good draw, just like the Wings did in 1998. You have to realize that Bertuzzi is buddies with Burke, so with that being said, I think Anaheim over paid for him, there is no way in Holy Hell that I resign Bert for 4 mill, a year, Sorry!!

We were the best team in the play-offs last year, we were just incomplete without Schneider, Kronwall, Lebda, and Bertuzzi all being injured.

eva explained what most seem to have forgotten. We replaced our biggest loss with a better player and cut the fat aka Lang, Calder, and a risky Bertuzzi. Markov will probably leave, and I see him as a bigger loss than Lang, Calder, and Bertuzzi. There will be a hole on defense if we don't re-sign Markov that will have to be filled with a Kindl, Meech, or Quincey.

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Don't quite know who'll agree with me here but from what I saw this season, and even in the off-season, Valtteri Filppula showed real promise for the future. if only he could be given some more ice-time he could prove to be deadly. although i dont know who he'll line up with.

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No, it isn't. If you start yelling at someone to their face and then say, well I MEAN no harm, do you actually think it's in their court to shoulder interpreting you correctly?

That's an exaggeration, but it's to bring my point home. I don't care if someone "doesn't mean to be a jerk"--it matters whether they are or not, that's it. I ain't out to label you one, but you, often, are a hostile jerk and look like a control-freak on these boards. You don't have to be either, but you are.

It's actually strange, because you're so on the money about people having responsibility for panicking around here about Kenny or team grit or how they choose to regard the Wings... yet you don't pay attention to how much of an able choice it is for you in affecting how other people will, quite naturally, look back at you.

I think the other camp is the wiser and less reactionary, but it's not like I don't understand the first though. We need grit, and people want it now.

It's not like we can really fix it at this point anyway, we might not have been able to do it affordably on July 1st either. But you're right on how the split goes on "what should we do"?

The thing is, grit in the form of 3rd/4th liners is a lot easier to make up for late in the season. For example, if the Wings were interested in Martin Lapointe last year, yet were concerned about his contract, that will no longer be an issue at the trade deadline, or even a few months into the season. He wont cost much to trade for either. These guys are perenially available, case in point given that they are more or less all that remains on the UFA market. Of course, unless you are thinking along the lines of Chris Neil and Raffi Torres, then you should know that these guys arent going to be had at the drop of a hat by anybody. Furthermore, waiting to spend gives the Red Wings a better chance to nab a guy like Marian Hossa given that its very likely the Thrashers wont make the playoffs this year. If I have to wait around to see a forward roster that looks something like this...

Filppula-Zetterberg-Homer

Grigorenko-Datsyuk-Hossa

Lapointe-Franzen-Cleary

Maltby-Draper-Sammy

Kopecky

...then so be it.

Edited by YoungGuns1340

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As we stand, if we keep the roster the way it is, we would definitely be a good team. Winning the central division is a lock. A number 1 in the west is a probably going to happen, and we also are probably going to win a playoff series again. But people are underestimating the impact Todd Bertuzzi would have had this season and in the playoffs. Im assuming he played at 60% during his time as a Red Wing. Also, he hasnt skated much in the past 3 years; suspension, lockout, injury. With a full offseason, training camp, Bertuzzi will be a top tier player in this league and we coulda had a bargain. Instead Anaheim gets him and is even better.

In order to stick with Anaheim in the playoffs we are going to need to be able to score more goals. They already have better goaltending, they can match us on defense, and whats more, offense is arguably their strength.

Bertuzzi

McDonald

Perry

Getzlaf

Kunitz

Penner

All of which are big, phyisical, talented hockey players who are capable of scoring 25 plus goals. All we have is Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Holmstrom. And Holmstrom is one dimensional, those players are not.

Furthermore, Bertuzzi was a gamble, but if it had panned out he was a player that would have put us over the top to have a GREAT chance of winning the cup. He was a perfect fit and we blew it.

Now that he's lost, we should gamble with Peter Forsberg. Because again, when healthy he has the talent to be an elite player in this league, and we need an elite player to contend with Anaheim. If Forsberg does get hurt. Then whatever, we wouldnt have won without him anyways. It's the same gamble baseball teams make when trading their prospects at the deadline.

You're being sarcastic right? All's we have is Zetterburg, Datsyuk and Holmstrom. LMAO.

And we should sign Foresburg even though he can't skate becuase of ankle surgery.

And Aneheim has better Defenense without Neidemeir... ha ha ha

The impact Todd Bertuzzi would have had....ha ha ha ha. The guy just had BACK SURGERY after which he played like a big slow old forward. He looked like Darien Hatcher would look like playing forward.

Be serious.

I don't understand why everyone is so upset about Bertuzzi and Schneider in Anaheim.

Bertuzzi is a SIGNIFICANT DOWNGRADE from Selanne.

Schneider is a SIGNIFICANT DOWNGRADE from Niedermayer.

So Anaheim has gotten worse, as a team.

Now, compare with Detroit.

Rafalski is a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over Schneider.

Bertuzzi was a nonfactor in the playoffs and basically did not play in the regular season.

Calder was a healthy scratch many nights inthe playoffs, and did nothing when he was in the lineup. Not enough regular season games to be a factor.

Lang was horrid in the playoffs and his offensive contribution will be easily replaced by guys like Hudler, Filppula, and Grigorenko. Addition by subtraction.

So basically, Detroit nearly beat Anaheim with Schneider out of the lineup. ANd now, Anaheim has gotten worse while Detroit has gotten better. Anaheim replaced their best player with a guy the Wings upgraded on. Anaheim had two of the three best defensemen on the ice in the series. Were that series played with current rosters, that advantage belongs to Detroit.

With Anaheim and Detroit making the moves they did, Detroit is, right now, the league's best team. Assuming Hudler, Kopecky, Filppula, and Grigorenko are all on the regular roster, and Quincey is the 7th defenseman, the Wings are the best team on paper.

Finaly, somebody I agree with! Well said.

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Like I said--if you're interested in continuing your present train of thought, this thread is not the proper location.

No offense, but I think right in public would be most appropriate, since most of your attitude to people - I assume, because I don't see you as -that- "caustic" to get borderline argumentative with posters in PM too - is equally in the public eye.

That and I just figure you'd brush off my observations (observations, not attacks, not ill-willed "that Crymson sure's a bad guy", but straight up neutral-as-possible observances that aren't about vilifying you) if I did go to PM with you.

If I have to say these things in futility, they may as well be where other people saw that I said them and made an attempt.

Furthermore, waiting to spend gives the Red Wings a better chance to nab a guy like Marian Hossa given that its very likely the Thrashers wont make the playoffs this year. If I have to wait around to see a forward roster that looks something like this...

I know, and agree. That's why I really look forward to February, because of how much easier it is to add some tools to the team.

But I'm expecting 3rd/4th liners to be the ones Kenny picks up (like you mentioned) due to the ease, unless he can actually secure a scorer/finisher/banger/pwr fwd 2nd line guy at a decent price--and before anyone else offers a sweeter deal to the Dumper team.

I oddly wouldn't be surprised if Holland pulls a rabbit out of his hat this season, but... I don't know if I'd be surprised if he didn't either. Hossa though? I like his stats! :D

Edited by Flip-check

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Petr Cajanek, Mike Comrie, Pavol Demitra, Jean-Pierre Dumont, Sergei Federov, Ruslan Fedotenko, Dany Heatley, Jochen Hecht, Robert Holik, Tomas Holstrom, Chris Kunitz, Daymond Langkow, David Legwand, Marian Hossa, Patrick Marleau, Brendan Morrison, Ladislav Nagy, Markus Naslund, Owen Nolan, Vaclav Prospal, Mark Recchi, Gary Roberts, Brian Rolston, Steve Rucchin, Martin Rucinsky, Joe Sakic, Miroslav Satan, Cory Stillman, Martin Straka, Mats Sundin, David Vyborny and Doug Weight.

I just straight copied that list of FAs from Spector's blog and some of the people might not be available when the time comes, but I'd still say that next year will offer MUCH better players than this year. Including some fun people like Heatley, Hossa, some unsignables like Sakic and Sundin aaaaaaaaaand FEDOROV.

I disagree,we should wait until 2011,'cause then there will be huge UFA's on the market.

Sigh. It's the same story every year...

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Guest Crymson

That and I just figure you'd brush off my observations (observations, not attacks, not ill-willed "that Crymson sure's a bad guy", but straight up neutral-as-possible observances that aren't about vilifying you) if I did go to PM with you.

I've just as much ability to do that here as there, so I don't see your point. Were I totally uninterested, I'd have simply not responded at all.

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I disagree,we should wait until 2011,'cause then there will be huge UFA's on the market.

Sigh. It's the same story every year...

Better waiting until next year than signing Yashin this year or even Briere to one of those messed up contracts...

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We were the best team in the play-offs last year, we were just incomplete without Schneider, Kronwall, Lebda, and Bertuzzi all being injured.

eva explained what most seem to have forgotten. We replaced our biggest loss with a better player and cut the fat aka Lang, Calder, and a risky Bertuzzi. Markov will probably leave, and I see him as a bigger loss than Lang, Calder, and Bertuzzi. There will be a hole on defense if we don't re-sign Markov that will have to be filled with a Kindl, Meech, or Quincey.

The problem with that is, while we sign more 5' 10" 180lb defenseman, anaheim signs another 6'3" 240lb forward. We get weaker and they get stronger. Plus, we let go of 3 of our bigger forwards and our most physical defenseman. We are gonna get killed in the corners come playoff time and both and Anaheim and San Jose will laugh at our mini defenseman as they mandhandle them in front of the net and in the corners.

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Better waiting until next year than signing Yashin this year or even Briere to one of those messed up contracts...

Its a tough call...if the cap jumps up again... I guarantee you we will be siging someone to the same contract price Tag Brier got... while others will be getting more. It is just a fact as the cap rises so too will the price tags. If the cap stayed the exact same post lockout then yeah those would be outlandish prices to pay.. now they are just inline with the raising cap. :cool:

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Its a tough call...if the cap jumps up again... I guarantee you we will be siging someone to the same contract price Tag Brier got... while others will be getting more. It is just a fact as the cap rises so too will the price tags. If the cap stayed the exact same post lockout then yeah those would be outlandish prices to pay.. now they are just inline with the raising cap. :cool:

True..but signing a player type we don't need right now instead of overpaying a player we could actually use - like Hossa - next year....

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eva unit zero,

1. Niedermayer isnt officially retired yet, he could be back.

2. Bertuzzi is head and shoulders above Selanne. I dont know why the posters on this board are all over Selanne. He is such a soft player, and performs below average in the playoffs. He only did something when Lillypads gave him the series on a platter. The debate goes back to the argument of Williams/Calder. Calder is hader to play against, as is Bertuzzi. Sure Selanne is a pretty player but easy to play against.

Detroit fans are clinging to this back injury thing of bertuzzis only because its the only thing they can say to reasure themselves the wings are better off without him. however, we should be the last ones be prejiduce of injuries. EX Maggs, Pudge, McDyess. Afterall, it is not like bertuzzi is injury proned, the back thing was his only real injury.

2. Pronger, Schneider, Beauchamin. is closer to Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall than our forwards are to there offense.

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