Yzerman vs Fedorov in the 90's...

[wingnut22 81]

Blimey.... Capin' Jack Sparrow!

Harry Potter pwns Jack Sparrow

[BeeRYCE 2]

Harry Potter pwns Jack Sparrow

So Daniel Radcliffe over JOHNNY DEPP?

Crazy talk.

[wingnut22 81]

So Daniel Radcliffe over JOHNNY DEPP?

Crazy talk.

oh I will so get some people mad at me.....haha. I dont find either of them attractive!

[Offsides 21]

Even though we are past this...I thought, I think, I will always think that Fedorov was the most important Red Wing of the 90's.

Because everyone has always NOT thought that to be the truth he's been questioned over and over again... and will never get the credit he deserved here.

Harry Potter pwns Jack Sparrow

No no no.

the HP FANDOM pwns the POTC FANDOM

But Harry does not pwn Captain Jack

CJ is a WAY cooler and better character than Harry....

[RedRockit 0]

oh I will so get some people mad at me.....haha. I dont find either of them attractive!

Hey! This is a hockey site, aye, mates?

(sioooo.... sidney or zata)

*hastily adding* I mean. of course, who is the better playa... I mean, player.

Who would make the better pirate captain?

[edited because Offsides is SO right on about Feds it ain't funny, and I didn't see it till I posted]

Edited July 13, 2007 by RedRockit

[hockeysattva 8]

Unfortunately I have not seen as much substance here as I would like to.

The question is about the 90's, and I feel this is fair. The problem is that I am not sure how to value the different things these two offered.

SF was in my mind a more substantial threat on the ice than SY was (remember we are talking 90's).

However, without calling SF a locker-room cancer (which I never really believed) there is no way that he could have had the impact SY had.

Now for the real tricky part. SF had the harder and more accurate shot as well as the faster legs. Accuracy was perhaps marginally better, but there is no doubt that he was a faster skater, and had a harder shot. So, what can you make of this?

You ask the question who was more important to their team, and I say it was probably Yzerman. You ask who should be credited with reaching his potential and I say probably both of them. You ask who was more effective and I surprise you.

They both did incredibly jobs, I really cannot think of a better Captain, but SF did a great job in a more difficult position. He was a square peg forced into a round hole. He played the role, but it was not the job for him.

Hmmm.... maybe this can spark some reasonable discourse. I certainly don't think it is as cut and dry as some of you do.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

No Cups without either of them.

5 different players could have won the Conn Smythe in 98. Yzerman 24 pts (6G,18A), Fedorov 20 pts (10G,10A). Either could have won it and to say one was more important is ludacris.

In talent alone in the 90s NOT the 80s...

Fedorov > Yzerman

Edited July 13, 2007 by Wings_Dynasty

[hockeysattva 8]

Some stats to consider:

Regular Season

SY

50 + goals in 91 and 93 100 + pts 3 times

SF

50 + in 94 100 + twice

Playoffs: last six playoff runs of the 90's (isn't this really where the players are tested) because 91 lost first round in seven games, 92 win first round in seven and get swept 2nd round, 93 and 94 lose first round in seven (maybe 2000 shouldn't count according to this logic hmmm).

.......... SY ................. SF

....... goals points goals points

94-95 .. 4 -- 12 ... 7 -- 24 ---- lost in Finals to Devils

95-96 .. 8 -- 20 ... 2 -- 20

96-97 .. 7 -- 13 .... 8 -- 20

97-98 .. 6 -- 24 ... 10 -- 20 --- cup

98-99 .. 9 -- 13 ... 1 -- 9 --- cup

99-00 .. 0 -- 4 ..... 4 -- 8

total .. 34 -- 86 ... 32 -- 101

And, there are a million ways to look at these numbers, but I hardly think they say "Case closed!"

Edited July 13, 2007 by hockeysattva

[Guest DetroitIan]

More Important .... Yzerman

More Talented ..... Yzerman

If Stevies knees had held up better , I believe he could've been 3rd/4th in scoring all time. Fedorov was nice and flashy , but so was Yzerman back in the day. Plus he did all the little things.

Exactly.

[SweWings 45]

STEVIE VS SERGEI DISCUSSION = OVER. I GOT OWNED.

Funny.

[Offsides 21]

That's what makes me really angry. Sergei Fedorov is one of the most important Wings of all time. But for whatever reason he's always been dogged throughout his career, and he'll never get the respect he deserves here. Look at all time Red Wing stats. I believe he's 4th all time in playoff scoring...well it's all lookupable but I'm too lazy right now. Sergei accomplished in his seasons more than most other players have for the organization, and he was treated like crap by the fans when he was here, and he's treated like crap by the fans now. It sucks, and it makes no sense.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Because everyone has always NOT thought that to be the truth he's been questioned over and over again... and will never get the credit he deserved here.

That would have never happened if he would have stayed here. Like he should have.

Kp (after hanging out here a while and reading your posts, I've mentally dubbed you Kip, after a favorite cousin of mine)

We're past Stevie v. Sergei.... Bryce has moved us onto Getzlaf v. Bergeron.

Heh, didn't see that.

Getzlaf is better.

[OsGOD 3]

Cap'in Jack

Sergei Fedorov

Bergeron

those be my pick!

[Offsides 21]

That would have never happened if he would have stayed here. Like he should have.

I agree he should have stayed...but come on...Fedorov was ALWAYS the scapegoat when he was here. He was questioned over and over again.

The only thing that has changed for Fedorov is location, and where he is now, he's appreciated a lot more.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I agree he should have stayed...but come on...Fedorov was ALWAYS the scapegoat when he was here. He was questioned over and over again.

The only thing that has changed for Fedorov is location, and where he is now, he's appreciated a lot more.

The reason Fedorov was questioned is because of his contract dispute. You don't sit out over half a season because of money and expect to be liked by the fans.

I used to like Fedorov a lot. He was one of my favorite Red Wings. How can I say that about him now though? I know he won a lot here, and it's his own decision to leave. But why? He wanted more money? That honestly is not a good reason, at least in my opinion.

The whole "more money" thing is a crapshoot. I personally hate it when players leave teams that they mean a lot to for this very reason. It shows what greed bags they are.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[BeeRYCE 2]

The reason Fedorov was questioned is because of his contract dispute. You don't sit out over half a season because of money and expect to be liked by the fans.

I used to like Fedorov a lot. He was one of my favorite Red Wings. How can I say that about him now though? I know he won a lot here, and it's his own decision to leave. But why? He wanted more money? That honestly is not a good reason, at least in my opinion.

The whole "more money" thing is a crapshoot. I personally hate it when players leave teams that they mean a lot to for this very reason. It shows what greed bags they are.

Yeah, but the balance between Fedorov being a greedy ******* and what he has done here is very hard to dispute. Sure he wanted some money, but we won 3 cups in which we probably wouldn't have been able to win without him. I don't think he should get booed everytime he touches the puck at the Joe, that's for sure.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Yzerman, was by far the best overall player since Gordie Howe to play for the Wings and in my opinion the best of all time. He was the complete package, Federov probably had move raw talent but lacked Yzerman's determination and work ethic.

Anyone who denies the insane level of raw talent in Feds is crazy. But Yzerman had the heart of a lion grafted to the heart of Paul Bunion's blue ox. Oh, and Y had an ass load of talent too.

[eva unit zero 271]

More Important .... Yzerman

More Talented ..... Yzerman

If Stevies knees had held up better , I believe he could've been 2nd in scoring all time. Fedorov was nice and flashy , but so was Yzerman back in the day. Plus he did all the little things.

Fixed it for you. Yzerman could easily have scored 132 more points had he not destroyed his knee in 88. 1987-88, and 2000-01 to 2002-03 were the four main seasons he missed significant time because of the knee. So let's take his GPG, APG, and PPG in each of those years multiplied by his games missed those years. Had Yzerman's knee been healthy, he'd have an additional:

87-88: 16 GP, 13g-13a-26pt

00-01: 28 GP, 9g-18a-27pt

01-02: 30 GP, 8g-20a-28pt

02-03: 66GP, 8g-25a-33pt

That totals up to an additional 140GP, with 38g-76a-114pt. Assuming the lingering knee injury had NO EFFECT on Yzerman's production in any season, those additional numbers move him to 5th in goals and assists, and 3rd in points. Yzerman played 18 seasons after the knee injury. If we assume his per-season output, on average, increases by just a meager 2 goals and 3 assists if his knee is healthy, that would mean another 36g-54a-90pt, for a total increase of 74g-130a-204pt. This would rank him third in goals at 766, 3rd in assists at 1193 (tied with Messier), and a clear second in points at 1959, within 4 of Gretzky's assist mark and 70-some ahead of Messier.

The reason Fedorov was questioned is because of his contract dispute. You don't sit out over half a season because of money and expect to be liked by the fans.

Fedorov received less than market value after his holdout, and was instrumental in two more Cups as a Wing.

I used to like Fedorov a lot. He was one of my favorite Red Wings. How can I say that about him now though? I know he won a lot here, and it's his own decision to leave. But why? He wanted more money? That honestly is not a good reason, at least in my opinion.

The whole "more money" thing is a crapshoot. I personally hate it when players leave teams that they mean a lot to for this very reason. It shows what greed bags they are.

Fedorov left for the same amount of money over more years, and 10m less than the initial offer. Hardly sounds like money was the issue, don't you think?

Edited July 13, 2007 by eva unit zero

[Barrie 900]

All due respect to Fedorov, but Yzerman and Howe are the two greatest Red Wings of All-Time, and there's really no debate about it.

With that said, Yzerman was the most important Red Wing in the 1990's. Not only was he captain, heart and soul of the team, but he led the team in points 7 times in the decade (1989-90, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1996-97, 1997-98, and 1998-99). If you want to compare that to Fedorov, Sergei only lead the team in points twice in the 90's (1993-94 and 1995-96). FYI, Coffey was the only other Wings player to lead the team in points in a season (1995).

Again, all due respect to Fedorov, he was awesome, but I don't think there's any doubt Yzerman was the driving force, most talented, most important, whatever you want to call it, Red Wing of the 90's.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Barrie

[eva unit zero 271]

All due respect to Fedorov, but Yzerman and Howe are the two greatest Red Wings of All-Time, and there's really no debate about it.

With that said, Yzerman was the most important Red Wing in the 1990's. Not only was he captain, heart and soul of the team, but he lead the team in points 7 times in the decade (1989-90, 1990-91,1991-92, 1992-93, 1996-97, 1997-98, and 1998-99). If you want to compare that to Fedorov, Sergei only lead the team in points twice in the 90's (1993-94 and 1995-96). FYI, Coffey was the only other Wings player to lead the team in points in a season (1995).

Again, all due respect to Fedorov, he was awesome, but I don't think there's any doubt Yzerman was the driving force, most talented, most important, whatever you want to call it, Red Wing of the 90's.

Actually, Shanahan led the team in points in 96-97.

[Barrie 900]

Actually, Shanahan led the team in points in 96-97.

Oh right, my mistake.

6 times then.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Fedorov received less than market value after his holdout, and was instrumental in two more Cups as a Wing.

Yeah, well it's just the fact that he did it. If that's not the reason why a majority of Wings fans didn't like him, then what was? You can't say it's because he was Russian. Guys like Vladdy and Larionov were both two of the most popular players on the Wings with the fans, and they were both Russians too.

Fedorov left for the same amount of money over more years, and 10m less than the initial offer. Hardly sounds like money was the issue, don't you think?

Then why exactly did he leave? To be a dick?

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Yeah, well it's just the fact that he did it. If that's not the reason why a majority of Wings fans didn't like him, then what was? You can't say it's because he was Russian. Guys like Vladdy and Larionov were both two of the most popular players on the Wings with the fans, and they were both Russians too.

Then why exactly did he leave? To be a dick?

He wanted to be the go-to guy. With Yzerman on his team, Fedorov would never be that guy.

With Kariya gone from the Ducks, he had his shot. Then he became the big fish in the small pond in Columbus.

[hockeysattva 8]

Oh right, my mistake.

6 times then.

For some reason I include 99-00 and not 89-90... I guess I am more worried about when a season starts than when it ends.

Anyway, an interesting thing happens when you look at playoff numbers. I won't argue this means everything, but I will argue that it is not to be forgotten.

Again, looking at years when we the wings were successful or as I am putting it when the make it past the 2nd round goal production is very similar, but Feds has considerably more assists.

So, which players were 1st line from 95-95 -- 98-99?

[eva unit zero 271]

Yeah, well it's just the fact that he did it. If that's not the reason why a majority of Wings fans didn't like him, then what was? You can't say it's because he was Russian. Guys like Vladdy and Larionov were both two of the most popular players on the Wings with the fans, and they were both Russians too.

I didn't say Fedorov wasn't hated for the holdout. Just that his holdout was not about greed as he came out of it underpaid, and that what he did in a Wings jersey AFTERWARDS should have nullified that anyway.

Then why exactly did he leave? To be a dick?

Because the Wings originally offered him 50/5, and he asked for some time to deal with personal issues (including a divorce and changing agents) and the Wings responded by removing the 5th year from the deal permanently. Fedorov signed a 5-year deal to play for Bryan Murray, who he began his career under.