Sopel draws Detroit's eye.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Im not necessarily saying they should sign Sutton, but theres room. If you sign Sutton for say, 3.5...and deal Lilja for whatever draft pick you can get (just to dump his salary), that'll help offset it. There would be zero need for Lilja at the point Sutton were signed. Like ive said in this thread, theres no use in the Wings saving 4 million or whatever for the deadline when they arent willing to part with the packages it'll take to land a big name or two (healthy is the key). They'll get outbid every time just like last time. Not much point to it...might as well spend most of it now.

And stock up on tradable prospects for the deadline.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I'd be all for Sopel, actually.

Does anyone else think it's funny that Lindros' price has to "drop low enough"? He's crazy if he thinks he's going to be paid big money to go out and get himself concussed for someone.

I think youre getting the wrong idea. Lindros knows his limitations. Im sure when they say "drop low enough", theyre talking 750k a year - minimal risk. I doubt his asking price is any higher than 1.5M. He knows he wont earn much of a raise after not doing much last season.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I think he's asking for too much. But Im not certain on that.

Too much and too long. He wanted a 4 year /16 million dollar deal pre-free agency, and he made sure that was publicly known. If he goes down on his price, he wont go down on the term. Thats why Holland wont touch Sutton, and its a good reason too.

Im sure Sopel is willing to take a shorter term contract. Hes not exactly young and isnt coming olff a stellar year especially with the injury trouble he had this year. Its possible that he could be had for a 1 year contract, maybe 2 if he comes cheap enough.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Im not necessarily saying they should sign Sutton, but theres room. If you sign Sutton for say, 3.5...and deal Lilja for whatever draft pick you can get (just to dump his salary), that'll help offset it. There would be zero need for Lilja at the point Sutton were signed. Like ive said in this thread, theres no use in the Wings saving 4 million or whatever for the deadline when they arent willing to part with the packages it'll take to land a big name or two (healthy is the key). They'll get outbid every time just like last time. Not much point to it...might as well spend most of it now.

I think youre missing a key issue here. Its not that the Wings are forever going to be outbid in the new cap era. It depends entirely on the year. Last season at the deadline, you had a good 20 teams who were either going to clinch, or trying to make the push. Therefore, teams that still thought they mightve had a chance (St. Louis was on a good run close to the deadline) were reluctant to sell and were only going to sell if they got a buyer that would overpay so they had good compensation for *possibly* throwing away a chance at a playoff spot. Similarly, if youve got 20 teams that are making the push, thats a simple issue of supply and demand. A lot of teams in the running for a few goods is going to skyrocket the prices. Finally, if you look at the teams that overpaid, they were for the most part small market teams who needed to make the playoffs in order for publicity or to encourage their fan base OR more established teams whos fans were growing restless with the underachieving. Teams like Nashville and San Jose were trying to push themselves to the powerhouse extreme. Atlanta was trying to become a serious contender for the first time in its history. NYI was trying to make a blockbuster move in an attempt to get some of their former glory back.

On top of all this, I think the biggest standout issue thats going to be in all the GMs minds is just what Kenny was thinking last summer: "do I wanna throw a ton away just for a miniscule chance, or do I want to keep my head straight and not drive my organization into the ground by throwing away the valuables year after year?" The fact that Detroit, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Anaheim either made low - risk deals, small-scale deals, or not much of anything at the deadline and were the final four, while NYI (Smyth), Atlanta (Tkachuk), San Jose (Guerin), Nashville (Forsberg), and Dallas (Nagy) paid heavily for their purchases, only made it into the first or second round, and ended up losing their acquisition to free agency I think will weigh heavily on the minds of GMs this summer.

And finally, another issue to consider is who exactly is going to be on the trade block at the deadline, barring a re-signing. At the trade deadline last year, how many of the big names available to Detroit were either something Detroit would have interest in re-signing or something Detroit could afford re-signing? Would Detroit get into a bidding war over Marian Hossa who they likely wouldnt be able to re-sign, or would they get into a bidding war over David Legwand, a big, young, strong, defensively responsible, goal scoring 2nd line player from Michigan who wouldnt cost the moon to re-sign and would be a value to the organization on the long-term (4-5 years)?

Edited July 14, 2007 by YoungGuns1340

[Kp-Wings 3]

The Wings have turned conservative in the cap era. How many times have we heard Holland say the Wings wont be giving up all the picks like they used to? Or trading top prospects? We've heard numerous times! Look at what the prices were for the guys last year like Tkachuk and Guerin. Why would it be any different next deadline? A barrage of high picks plus prospects is what all the teams with coveted guys will be asking for again. I see zero reason to believe Holland will suddenly change his tune and offer up huge packages.

Would you have prefered that Holland sell the farm like many other teams did?

Also note that, like Younguns said, these teams who sold the farms for these guys all flopped out in either the first or second round. The teams that took a lower risk actually made it further.

I want big name players to come here, but not at the expense of virtually the entire teams future. Look what Atlanta did. They shaved away about 5-6 draft picks, 2 young players, and 2 veteran players for Keith Tkachuk and Alexei Zhitnik. And look where it got them. A 4 game sweep from the Rags.

It doesn't always pay to throw away everything for a big name at the current time, like in Atlanta's case. In that sequence of trades, they threw away a potential all-star defenseman in Braydon Coburn, and that also includes the other picks and prospects. That's giving up a lot for such little results, considering they were swept.

[kozac 10]

Lindros is still around? I thought Stevens retired him

[Izzy24 44]

I like Sopel, but what's the plan? To have 18 defensemen and 2 goalies?

As far as on-the-decline players are concerned I'd take Forsberg over Lindros.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

I like Sopel, but what's the plan? To have 18 defensemen and 2 goalies?

You can never have too many defensman.

Anywho, I'd prefer Markov over Sopel, but Sopel ain't too shabby. Lindros is cool in my books as well.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I like Sopel, but what's the plan? To have 18 defensemen and 2 goalies?

The Wings have 6 defenseman who are guerenteed a spot. Contrary to what many believe, Quincey will probably not be starting the season with the Wings, since he is still eligible for GR without clearing waivers. And that, makes all the difference.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

I'm a bit surprised people want Sopel so badly. He's not exactly known for his defensive game. I think Detroit has enough offense from the blueline already. I'd rather have Markov back, but I guess he's outpriced himself.

[arnoldbuck 0]

Hope this wasn't already mentioned but I still find it funny in regards to Lindros. Not sure if it was with the Flyers, or back when he was drafted by Quebec, but there once upon a time was a rumour (not sure how legit) of a trade that involved Lindros coming to Detroit in exchange for Fedorov, Lidstrom, amognst others. Haha, now look where things are.

[bcwingsfan19 0]

I'm a bit surprised people want Sopel so badly. He's not exactly known for his defensive game. I think Detroit has enough offense from the blueline already. I'd rather have Markov back, but I guess he's outpriced himself.

I agree to this completely

[arnoldbuck 0]

http://hfboards.com/archive/index.php/t-114822.html

"Detroit had turned down Quebec's demand for Fedorov, Lidstrom, Chaisson, Lapointe, Cheveldae and draft picks."

haha, found an article. just a good laugh.

[Must Kill 0]

it will be a cold day in hell before i ever cheer for lindros

[Kp-Wings 3]

http://hfboards.com/archive/index.php/t-114822.html

"Detroit had turned down Quebec's demand for Fedorov, Lidstrom, Chaisson, Lapointe, Cheveldae and draft picks."

haha, found an article. just a good laugh.

Funnily enough, Chicago had the best offer. The only reason they didn't get him was of the 5 million which, surprise surprise, came at Wirtz' cheapness.

[Blood On The Ice 15]

That article said nothing about detroit being interested. Only that Detroit could use him.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Lindros, I hate the guy, always hated the guy, wouldn't want him on the team. If Lindros came here, I'd probably react like DraperFan (or whatever his name is) did with Bertuzzi coming here.

Sopel... another NO. I think our defense is pretty set, with or without a Markov.

[scotzman 29]

Stevie likes Big E (I think they're buddies) and has always wanted him to play with Detroit. Maybe this is the year... rather have Forsberg, but who knows what he's thinking.

Edited July 14, 2007 by scotzman

[Heaton 1]

Another problem people may not be thinking about is that if we sign a Sutton or a Markov to more than a 1 year deal in one seasons time they could be looked at as unnecessary and vastly overpaid.

For instance, this year's top 4 is Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Chelios? Lilja? Regardless, the #4 defensemen isn't going to be asked to do much, just keep it simple and if Lilja can do the same thing he did in the playoffs, use his body, focus on defense and penalty killing, he's a legit top 4. Anyway back to my point, Kindl is about a year away, he's not going to be staying in the AHL for years and when he comes up he's not going to be a bottom 6, he's too good for that. So after this year we'll have:

Lidstorom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Kindl, Chelios, Lilja, Lebda, Quincey, Meech (possibly) Ericsson ect... So what I'm getting at is if Markov or Sutton wants to sign a 1 year deal at whatever price, then great, but if then it gets sketchy, because I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather not have a 3.5/4m 5th defensemen.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I think youre missing a key issue here. Its not that the Wings are forever going to be outbid in the new cap era. It depends entirely on the year. Last season at the deadline, you had a good 20 teams who were either going to clinch, or trying to make the push. Therefore, teams that still thought they mightve had a chance (St. Louis was on a good run close to the deadline) were reluctant to sell and were only going to sell if they got a buyer that would overpay so they had good compensation for *possibly* throwing away a chance at a playoff spot. Similarly, if youve got 20 teams that are making the push, thats a simple issue of supply and demand. A lot of teams in the running for a few goods is going to skyrocket the prices. Finally, if you look at the teams that overpaid, they were for the most part small market teams who needed to make the playoffs in order for publicity or to encourage their fan base OR more established teams whos fans were growing restless with the underachieving. Teams like Nashville and San Jose were trying to push themselves to the powerhouse extreme. Atlanta was trying to become a serious contender for the first time in its history. NYI was trying to make a blockbuster move in an attempt to get some of their former glory back.

On top of all this, I think the biggest standout issue thats going to be in all the GMs minds is just what Kenny was thinking last summer: "do I wanna throw a ton away just for a miniscule chance, or do I want to keep my head straight and not drive my organization into the ground by throwing away the valuables year after year?" The fact that Detroit, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Anaheim either made low - risk deals, small-scale deals, or not much of anything at the deadline and were the final four, while NYI (Smyth), Atlanta (Tkachuk), San Jose (Guerin), Nashville (Forsberg), and Dallas (Nagy) paid heavily for their purchases, only made it into the first or second round, and ended up losing their acquisition to free agency I think will weigh heavily on the minds of GMs this summer.

And finally, another issue to consider is who exactly is going to be on the trade block at the deadline, barring a re-signing. At the trade deadline last year, how many of the big names available to Detroit were either something Detroit would have interest in re-signing or something Detroit could afford re-signing? Would Detroit get into a bidding war over Marian Hossa who they likely wouldnt be able to re-sign, or would they get into a bidding war over David Legwand, a big, young, strong, defensively responsible, goal scoring 2nd line player from Michigan who wouldnt cost the moon to re-sign and would be a value to the organization on the long-term (4-5 years)?

Good post, but i still disagree. We could easily see the exact same scenario play out again, with numerous buyers and few sellers. What if teams like Washington or i dont know, Florida are suprisingly good and take the place of last season's Nashville and look to overpay for a big name at the deadline? Just because Nashville or the Islanders might not be buying doesnt mean other teams wont just take their place. Hell even someone like St Louis could end up a buyer...who knows. I doubt any team will be scared to step up and overpay just because of what happened last season, theres new suckers born every year is what im trying to say. I think its a fair statement, going by Holland's recent actions and comments, that they are not going to fork over high picks and prospects. Instead, they'll look once again to sit back and wait for whatever they can get cheaply...which in my eyes will be an underacheiving, overpriced veteran who has very few suitors. I dont see it being someone like David Legwand.

Would you have prefered that Holland sell the farm like many other teams did?

Also note that, like Younguns said, these teams who sold the farms for these guys all flopped out in either the first or second round. The teams that took a lower risk actually made it further.

I want big name players to come here, but not at the expense of virtually the entire teams future. Look what Atlanta did. They shaved away about 5-6 draft picks, 2 young players, and 2 veteran players for Keith Tkachuk and Alexei Zhitnik. And look where it got them. A 4 game sweep from the Rags.

It doesn't always pay to throw away everything for a big name at the current time, like in Atlanta's case. In that sequence of trades, they threw away a potential all-star defenseman in Braydon Coburn, and that also includes the other picks and prospects. That's giving up a lot for such little results, considering they were swept.

Well, it obviously depends who its for. Im really not even arguing that the Wings should sell the farm for somebody, my issue is really with the initial post saying theyre setting themselves up to get any forward they want at the deadline. How is that a plausible thought when they arent willing to fork over big packages for anybody...thats all im saying.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Another problem people may not be thinking about is that if we sign a Sutton or a Markov to more than a 1 year deal in one seasons time they could be looked at as unnecessary and vastly overpaid.

For instance, this year's top 4 is Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Chelios? Lilja? Regardless, the #4 defensemen isn't going to be asked to do much, just keep it simple and if Lilja can do the same thing he did in the playoffs, use his body, focus on defense and penalty killing, he's a legit top 4. Anyway back to my point, Kindl is about a year away, he's not going to be staying in the AHL for years and when he comes up he's not going to be a bottom 6, he's too good for that. So after this year we'll have:

Lidstorom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Kindl, Chelios, Lilja, Lebda, Quincey, Meech (possibly) Ericsson ect... So what I'm getting at is if Markov or Sutton wants to sign a 1 year deal at whatever price, then great, but if then it gets sketchy, because I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather not have a 3.5/4m 5th defensemen.

Thats what Kennys been saying all along though. Not only is he not going to spend a lot, but hes also not going to give out long term contracts. I say the max Kenny gives out is 2 years. Sutton would be least likely to go for 2 years or less, IMO. Sopel would be most likely. Either way, they wont be signed to a contract when Zetterbergs new contract goes into effect.

As for the guys you mentioned, Lilja is a UFA after this season as are Lidstrom and Chelios. Meech, Quincey, and Ericsson - they could be used as trade bait if Detroit sees something at the deadline that theyd like to re-sign long term and would be worth the risk of any of those young Dmen. And at this point, Ericsson is a long shot to make it in the NHL next year. At any rate, its not much of an issue, given that next season, the only guys well have under contract or as RFAs that cant play in the minors are Rafalski, Lebda, Markov/Sopel (if they sign 2 years), Kronwall, Quincey, and Meech. After that, the only necessary re-signing is Lidstrom, should he opt to play for another saeson.

[Guest jaytan]

If they sign Forsberg, I'll stop buying Tigers and Wings merchandise and I'll boycott Little Ceasar's pizza. Plus my friend is a manager at one, maybe I can bribe him to poison the dough and cause a national scandal.

Also, I'll start investing in Compuware.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Good post, but i still disagree. We could easily see the exact same scenario play out again, with numerous buyers and few sellers. What if teams like Washington or i dont know, Florida are suprisingly good and take the place of last season's Nashville and look to overpay for a big name at the deadline? Just because Nashville or the Islanders might not be buying doesnt mean other teams wont just take their place. Hell even someone like St Louis could end up a buyer...who knows. I doubt any team will be scared to step up and overpay just because of what happened last season, theres new suckers born every year is what im trying to say. I think its a fair statement, going by Holland's recent actions and comments, that they are not going to fork over high picks and prospects. Instead, they'll look once again to sit back and wait for whatever they can get cheaply...which in my eyes will be an underacheiving, overpriced veteran who has very few suitors. I dont see it being someone like David Legwand.

Well, it obviously depends who its for. Im really not even arguing that the Wings should sell the farm for somebody, my issue is really with the initial post saying theyre setting themselves up to get any forward they want at the deadline. How is that a plausible thought when they arent willing to fork over big packages for anybody...thats all im saying.

I dont think we are really in disagreement here. My point is that we cant say as of now that Detroit wont accomplish anything at the deadline. The issues that factor into whether or not we can compete for the big names at the deadline are still up in the air. Its possible that certain teams will crash and burn and be down and out by December, at which point Detroit can be a big player while other teams have to wait around a few more months for the cap hits to decrease. On the other hand, we could see even more competition this year. My point is, its impossible to say right now.

As for Legwand, obviously there are many factors that play into his being available, but should Nashville encounter problems (not b/c of scoring or goaltending, IMO, but because of defense), and with the uncertainty of the Preds future, Nashvilles UFAs could be up for grabs. Also the issue of not having many bona fide scorers provides Detroits depth guys with a chance to become decent trade bait. Sammy and Hudler both have the potential to be 20+ goal scorers with the increase ice time and PP time theyll likely encounter, and if they do take advantage of that, a money-pinched Nashville might take a package of Hudler, Sammy, and a 1st in exchange for Legwand - a great all around young hometown guy. I realize that, as of now, that package wouldnt be of any worth, but like I said, come December, January, February, if we have guys on the squad that are taking advantage of their opportunities (Grigorenko, Hudler, Sammy, possibly Meech), we may have more trade bait than we think. Especially given the fact that, as of now, Detroit has very few untradeable contracts.

And Legwand is just an example (although probably one of my favorite possible targets). There are other good choices that would suit the Wings that might be available. IMO, unless that team is Detroit, Detroit will likely get guys from teams that are suffering from the injury bug. Another option is getting players from teams that still have a year left on their contract. Seems like a lot of us have forgotten that there are other options besides signing UFAs or trading for them at the deadline. A flat out trade for a player that still has more than a few months left on his contract is a possibility.

Edited July 14, 2007 by YoungGuns1340

[Guest jaytan]

I'd love to see Legwand on the Wings. I'd always do that in the EA game, and that ended up coming true with Hatcher and Bert.... On second thought, maybe I wouldn't make a good GM.

[Izzy24 44]

You can never have too many defensman.

Anywho, I'd prefer Markov over Sopel, but Sopel ain't too shabby. Lindros is cool in my books as well.

I prefer Markov as well, I was just assuming that wasn't going to happen in this scenario.