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Salviaman

Nashville decision will say a lot about Bettman's legacy

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Unless Boots buys the team, they are staying in Nashville. Balsillie, as I'm sure everybody has already heard, is done with that whole thing.

You know, I could make a joke about how Bettman will side with Nashville because of his love for scrupulious and idiotic market teams (mostly the southern markets, surprise surprise), but it's late, and I don't feel like it. Plus I can't think of anything good right now anyways.

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Honestly. This is just dumb. If anything the NHL needs to be thinking about what teams to eliminate. Not to expand even more. We do not need 32 teams. I really hope SOMEONE buys the preds. Whether they go to Hamilton, or Kansas City. I just dont wanna see 2 more teams added to the league. :nonono:

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generally EPSN columns are lame due to their biased coverage...

to hate ESPN, to hate Bettman....hmm

i think i'll just hate both

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Well done column by burnside although i disagree with just one point as detroit ian said and as all hockey fans know the last thing the nhl needs is expansion, with that said las vegas im not saying it would work but las vegas is a very interesting option, i was in vegas a couple months ago and i saw a lot of jerseys not just redwings and a couple people that i talked said they would love for the nhl to come there. Also as burnside said a franchise in Hamilton would be a hit, a franchise in KC on the other hand i doubt it because its pretty much chiefs country there.

Edited by wingfanatic4alltime

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Honestly. This is just dumb. If anything the NHL needs to be thinking about what teams to eliminate. Not to expand even more. We do not need 32 teams. I really hope SOMEONE buys the preds. Whether they go to Hamilton, or Kansas City. I just dont wanna see 2 more teams added to the league. :nonono:

I disagree on one point- I think Las Vegas would make an excellent spot to move an underachieving team. Revenue is no problem in Vegas and enough tourists from hockey climates visit there that I really don't see a team struggling just because it's in the desert.

Face it people- non traditional hockey markets keep proving that they're still able to cut it: The Ducks, 'Cannes and Lightning all have their names on the Cup since 2000. Like it or not, hot weather hockey teams are here to stay.

I'm from the frozen North and I realize that so Americans should see it by now too :P

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I have no problem with hockey going into non-traditional markets, as long as it's a location where a team can prosper. I agree about Las Vegas...I think it would be a great place for a team.

However, I don't agree that Anaheim, Carolina and Tampa Bay are good places for hockey just because they won the Cup. All that means is they had good teams. That doesn't necessarily mean they have a good fan base. I mean, barely 15,000 people showed up for the Cup rally in Anaheim...that didn't even fill their arena. Expansion into non-traditional markets is fine, but you've got to have the fans.

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I have no problem with hockey going into non-traditional markets, as long as it's a location where a team can prosper. I agree about Las Vegas...I think it would be a great place for a team.

However, I don't agree that Anaheim, Carolina and Tampa Bay are good places for hockey just because they won the Cup. All that means is they had good teams. That doesn't necessarily mean they have a good fan base. I mean, barely 15,000 people showed up for the Cup rally in Anaheim...that didn't even fill their arena. Expansion into non-traditional markets is fine, but you've got to have the fans.

Oh I totally agree. I actually DO think Vegas would be a sweet location. But ONLY in the situation of a team moving there. I am completely against further expansion. But if a team were to move to Las Vegas. That would be great. But no expansions. Just say no!

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I have no problem with hockey going into non-traditional markets, as long as it's a location where a team can prosper. I agree about Las Vegas...I think it would be a great place for a team.

However, I don't agree that Anaheim, Carolina and Tampa Bay are good places for hockey just because they won the Cup. All that means is they had good teams. That doesn't necessarily mean they have a good fan base. I mean, barely 15,000 people showed up for the Cup rally in Anaheim...that didn't even fill their arena. Expansion into non-traditional markets is fine, but you've got to have the fans.

Tampa Bay and Carolina both have a great fan base for each team. They definitly deserve to keep their team, Stanley Cup or not.

Anaheim, on the other hand, is a total joke of a market. 15,000 is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard for a Stanley Cup parade. Heck, even the New Jersey Devils had more people than that at their parades. Hockey is second business in California. The day the Ducks won the Cup was the same day that Paris Hilton got out of prison. I think we can all guess what the bigger news was down there on that day, considering the mindset of most people from California.

I personally do think people would care about hockey in California if the Kings or Sharks had won. Most people in SoCal are Kings fans as it is, and only rooted for the Ducks because they were good and the Kings were not. The Sharks have a great fan base, and have good support.

California doesn't need 3 teams. It's not a big enough hockey area. The Kings and Sharks both have great fan bases, so they should stay. The Ducks, however, need to go.

edited for grammar

Edited by Kp-Wings

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Nashville is a colossal failure?

Then explain why, with only 1,800 corporate season tickets last season, we still managed 13,800 paid attendance? that's 12,000 average joe fans paying to go to every game, and you can be sure that's that highest number in the entire league.

Now, if you look at where we started in season 1, we had 4,000 corporate season tickets. If we added back those 2,200 that have dropped off, we'd average 16,000 paid. And that's precisely the goal of "Our Team Nashville".

If you don't know anything about this group, let me explain. "Our Team Nashville" is a group of area business men, movers and shakers, who know that losing the Preds would mean huge losses for downtown businesses. They saw how poor the Preds marketing has been, and how area businesses were turned off by Leipolds cold, northern, business approach to them. I can tell you first hand, it's true, the south works differently. You have to be from here to get stuff done around here. there's just a different way of doing business in the south. So this group is taking it upon themselves to do the Preds work for them. They're building up the business relationships with the preds again. Opening doors and selling tickets in ways that Leipold could never do.

Not only do they want to build back the 2,200 that have been lost, their goal is to add 3,000 new tickets, and even though half season, partial season and single game tickets haven't gone on sale yet, reports are that they're half way to that goal. Adding 3,000 new season tickets to the 13,800 we had last season would sell the place out every night.

Thursday is our rally and ticket-thon. wait until you see that! all of the ticket plans will be available and the host (104.5 fm) has set a goal of selling 500 new season tickets there.

So, basically, even if all of these groups end up only making 50% of their goals, you can see that our Attendance is going to shoot way up next season. if Our Team can keep the corporate support number up year after year, then we clearly have no problems with attendance in town.

sit there and talk all you want about fan support in Nashville, but we can match any other NHl city, it's just a matter of getting corporate Nashville back on board.

as for the expansion issue. it's a no brainer. the burnside article already shows that the league would get $500M from it, that's basically a free $16.67M for each team. Plus if the teams are profitable (and they should be at least in the first few years) then there's more teams paying into the revenue sharing pot. it's a win-win situation all around.

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Bettman admiting a mistake? Never. He won't do it. It's not in his nature. He'll keep the team in Nashville even if he buys the tickets to send the Predadtors over the 14,000 mark. He's an egomanic who now has unlimited clout because of the lockout win.

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Nashville is a colossal failure?

Then explain why, with only 1,800 corporate season tickets last season, we still managed 13,800 paid attendance? that's 12,000 average joe fans paying to go to every game, and you can be sure that's that highest number in the entire league.

Now, if you look at where we started in season 1, we had 4,000 corporate season tickets. If we added back those 2,200 that have dropped off, we'd average 16,000 paid. And that's precisely the goal of "Our Team Nashville".

If you don't know anything about this group, let me explain. "Our Team Nashville" is a group of area business men, movers and shakers, who know that losing the Preds would mean huge losses for downtown businesses. They saw how poor the Preds marketing has been, and how area businesses were turned off by Leipolds cold, northern, business approach to them. I can tell you first hand, it's true, the south works differently. You have to be from here to get stuff done around here. there's just a different way of doing business in the south. So this group is taking it upon themselves to do the Preds work for them. They're building up the business relationships with the preds again. Opening doors and selling tickets in ways that Leipold could never do.

Not only do they want to build back the 2,200 that have been lost, their goal is to add 3,000 new tickets, and even though half season, partial season and single game tickets haven't gone on sale yet, reports are that they're half wayto that goal. Adding 3,000 new season tickets to the 13,800 we had last season would sell the place out every night.

Thursday is our rally and ticket-thon. wait until you see that! all of the ticket plans will be available and the host (104.5 fm) has set a goal of selling 500 new season tickets there.

So, basically, even if all of these groups end up only making 50% of their goals, you can see that our Attendance is going to shoot way up next season. if Our Team can keep the corporate support number up year after year, then we clearly have no problems with attendance in town.

sit there and talk all you want about fan support in Nashville, but we can match any other NHl city, it's just a matter of getting corporate Nashville back on board.

as for the expansion issue. it's a no brainer. the burnside article already shows that the league would get $500M from it, that's basically a free $16.67M for each team. Plus if the teams are profitable (and they should be at least in the first few years) then there's more teams paying into the revenue sharing pot. it's a win-win situation all around.

I'll bet my house that Nashville attendance will drop next season.

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Nashville is a colossal failure?

Then explain why, with only 1,800 corporate season tickets last season, we still managed 13,800 paid attendance? that's 12,000 average joe fans paying to go to every game, and you can be sure that's that highest number in the entire league.

Now, if you look at where we started in season 1, we had 4,000 corporate season tickets. If we added back those 2,200 that have dropped off, we'd average 16,000 paid. And that's precisely the goal of "Our Team Nashville".

If you don't know anything about this group, let me explain. "Our Team Nashville" is a group of area business men, movers and shakers, who know that losing the Preds would mean huge losses for downtown businesses. They saw how poor the Preds marketing has been, and how area businesses were turned off by Leipolds cold, northern, business approach to them. I can tell you first hand, it's true, the south works differently. You have to be from here to get stuff done around here. there's just a different way of doing business in the south. So this group is taking it upon themselves to do the Preds work for them. They're building up the business relationships with the preds again. Opening doors and selling tickets in ways that Leipold could never do.

Not only do they want to build back the 2,200 that have been lost, their goal is to add 3,000 new tickets, and even though half season, partial season and single game tickets haven't gone on sale yet, reports are that they're half way to that goal. Adding 3,000 new season tickets to the 13,800 we had last season would sell the place out every night.

Thursday is our rally and ticket-thon. wait until you see that! all of the ticket plans will be available and the host (104.5 fm) has set a goal of selling 500 new season tickets there.

So, basically, even if all of these groups end up only making 50% of their goals, you can see that our Attendance is going to shoot way up next season. if Our Team can keep the corporate support number up year after year, then we clearly have no problems with attendance in town.

sit there and talk all you want about fan support in Nashville, but we can match any other NHl city, it's just a matter of getting corporate Nashville back on board.

as for the expansion issue. it's a no brainer. the burnside article already shows that the league would get $500M from it, that's basically a free $16.67M for each team. Plus if the teams are profitable (and they should be at least in the first few years) then there's more teams paying into the revenue sharing pot. it's a win-win situation all around.

You sound just like Mr. Bush with his Iraq war speeches. :lol:

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You sound just like Mr. Bush with his Iraq war speeches. :lol:

haha good ole Mr. Bush.

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yuk it up, I hope you can laugh so much next summer while you're trying to choke down a mouth full of crow.

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Nashville is a colossal failure?

Then explain why, with only 1,800 corporate season tickets last season, we still managed 13,800 paid attendance? that's 12,000 average joe fans paying to go to every game, and you can be sure that's that highest number in the entire league.

Now, if you look at where we started in season 1, we had 4,000 corporate season tickets. If we added back those 2,200 that have dropped off, we'd average 16,000 paid. And that's precisely the goal of "Our Team Nashville".

If you don't know anything about this group, let me explain. "Our Team Nashville" is a group of area business men, movers and shakers, who know that losing the Preds would mean huge losses for downtown businesses. They saw how poor the Preds marketing has been, and how area businesses were turned off by Leipolds cold, northern, business approach to them. I can tell you first hand, it's true, the south works differently. You have to be from here to get stuff done around here. there's just a different way of doing business in the south. So this group is taking it upon themselves to do the Preds work for them. They're building up the business relationships with the preds again. Opening doors and selling tickets in ways that Leipold could never do.

Not only do they want to build back the 2,200 that have been lost, their goal is to add 3,000 new tickets, and even though half season, partial season and single game tickets haven't gone on sale yet, reports are that they're half way to that goal. Adding 3,000 new season tickets to the 13,800 we had last season would sell the place out every night.

Thursday is our rally and ticket-thon. wait until you see that! all of the ticket plans will be available and the host (104.5 fm) has set a goal of selling 500 new season tickets there.

So, basically, even if all of these groups end up only making 50% of their goals, you can see that our Attendance is going to shoot way up next season. if Our Team can keep the corporate support number up year after year, then we clearly have no problems with attendance in town.

sit there and talk all you want about fan support in Nashville, but we can match any other NHl city, it's just a matter of getting corporate Nashville back on board.

as for the expansion issue. it's a no brainer. the burnside article already shows that the league would get $500M from it, that's basically a free $16.67M for each team. Plus if the teams are profitable (and they should be at least in the first few years) then there's more teams paying into the revenue sharing pot. it's a win-win situation all around.

Well, actually it is a bit of a failure. I mean, you're having to form groups and and beg, plead, and do whatever to get people to pick up the extra tickeds so your team won't fold and move away. You're in a dire situation whether you're 1/2 way to your goal or not. Your collective backs are against the ropes and you're making your last stand. I wouldn't exactly call that a colossal success, would you?

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yuk it up, I hope you can laugh so much next summer while you're trying to choke down a mouth full of crow.

Yeah you might wanna read that sentence a few more times and realize who is in more risk of eating crow. ;)

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You sound just like Mr. Bush with his Iraq war speeches. :lol:

Expansion accomplished!

:P

Well, actually it is a bit of a failure. I mean, you're having to form groups and and beg, plead, and do whatever to get people to pick up the extra tickeds so your team won't fold and move away. You're in a dire situation whether you're 1/2 way to your goal or not. Your collective backs are against the ropes and you're making your last stand. I wouldn't exactly call that a colossal success, would you?

I also think there's an element of people rallying for the cause to keep the team, which probably won't translate to staying as fans.

People getting up in arms about the cause. "Hey we deserve a team!" and rallying for support. But once that's passed, not really keeping that same level of support.

Edit: I didn't articulate that very well, but you know what I mean?

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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I cannot stand you 'move Nashville, they don't go to games' types. Why? Because you're the same people who felt it was a travesty that the Jets left Winnipeg, even though they NEVER ONCE cleared 14k attendance in Winnipeg, and have done so numerous times since moving. So Nashville should be moved because of low attendance, even though they get better attendance than Winnipeg did?

And as far as the expansion thing is concerned; there is far more NHL-level talent than there was twenty years ago. This is a point I have made over and over, but there are 10 teams worth of Europeans and 5 teams worth of Americans in the league, compared with 1 team worth COMBINED in 1987. That means, assuming Canadian hockey has stayed the same quality and not degraded, that there are 5 teams worth of NHLers from Canada who aren't in the league. Even if there is not a single additional American or Euro, two more teams could still be composed of 100% NHL-level talent. Plus, adding two teams in the West means Detroit moves East.

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No one is talking about talent level here...it's about a market's ability to support a team. However, if you have a good, talented team you have a better chance of building a solid fan base. But even having a good team doesn't necessarily equal success. I think that was one of the points of the article...Nashville was one of the best teams in the NHL last season, leading the central division - and the league - for most of the season. But they still couldn't put butts in the seats.

Then there's Anaheim, that also shows you can have an extremely talented, championship-caliber team and still have very few people give a rat's fart about them.

Winnipeg was a small market team with a small but very loyal following. I hated to see them move but I know it was necessary for the survival of the team. I think it is the same way with Nashville - if the franchise is to survive it may have to move. Bettman has put teams in non-traditional markets...some have worked, some haven't. Nashville is one of those that hasn't.

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yuk it up, I hope you can laugh so much next summer while you're trying to choke down a mouth full of crow.

are you serious?

I mean... I'm not a Predators basher (in opposite) unless Tootoo plays against Wings, but c'mon... we're talking about non-traditional market team which never ripped the headlines in local newspapers and is not exactly amont state's top sport franchises. we're also talking about a mess created by Buttman and about the GM who seems to make firesale. if you call this a good sign and the way to bring people to the games...

if the Nashville based group is about to buy the franchise and your GM is gonna shop for some names and the team finds enough chemistry to fare well rather than float around the bottom of Central Division (there's always Blackhawks and BJ's so Preds nevertheless stand a chance to be 3rd after all) and Tennesse media picks up some hockey coverage (and I mean: ice hockey, not floorball etc.) then I can see the attendance not falling hard and maybe even some growth. other than that, I'd never make a statement like above. that's very risky and without much to cover

having said that - I wish your team stayed put as it was last season, maybe with some adjustments towards more skilled players and fewer s***dicks like Tootoo and Hartnell. Predators have been the single team worth those 8 meetings in the season and being a real competitor made Wings sweat to win those points. I really can't see it happening, but I'd like to see Preds fighting for top spot again. Wigns may as well decrease their level this season (compared to other Western teams) but for now it's the Preds who have teh biggest chance to regress a big lot. hope I'm wrong

Edited by akustyk

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No one is talking about talent level here...it's about a market's ability to support a team. However, if you have a good, talented team you have a better chance of building a solid fan base. But even having a good team doesn't necessarily equal success. I think that was one of the points of the article...Nashville was one of the best teams in the NHL last season, leading the central division - and the league - for most of the season. But they still couldn't put butts in the seats.

Then there's Anaheim, that also shows you can have an extremely talented, championship-caliber team and still have very few people give a rat's fart about them.

Winnipeg was a small market team with a small but very loyal following. I hated to see them move but I know it was necessary for the survival of the team. I think it is the same way with Nashville - if the franchise is to survive it may have to move. Bettman has put teams in non-traditional markets...some have worked, some haven't. Nashville is one of those that hasn't.

Bettman has been at the helm for four expansion teams. Two of them had previously had an NHL team (Atlanta and Minnesota), another was a Northern city with a strong college hockey following and no competition from other pro sports (Columbus) and another was a city with many transplants from Detroit (Nashville). Also, people sit and complain about Nashville having a good team and not getting good numbers. Nashville's failure was corporate support. For Nashville to have had corporate support last year, they would have had to have been good the PREVIOUS few years. Nashville has now been good for two seasons. Regular Joe fans go to the games as much or more than any other market. Give the businesses a chance to catch up.

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The corporate support isn't coming any time soon. The current owner of the Preds did nothing to build up that support in the last 10 years. It would make no sense for large businesses to suddenly get involved now with so much speculation surrounding the future of this team. Do you have to be the most successful team to garner backing from corporate America? No, in some cases having your name present is all that is needed. Being one of the transplants from Detroit I simply think if they would have struck when the iron was hot when Nashville first got the rights to expansion we wouldn't be having this discussion. Then again I bet they planned on all the people who left MI, NJ, OH, etc would just start following the Preds because they came from the north and knew what hockey was. Legionnaire is right about how ass backwards they do things around here. They wait until the brink of failure before discussing a resolution. I personally hope that the Preds do make it in Nashville, I really enjoy the 4 games I attend each year.

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