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Zion

The 2nd Line Dilemna

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I seriously hate it when people do this. Yes, let's compare Hudler to a list which features current all-star players, and potential HOF's.

Yeah but it is just a response to the comment that Huds is too small to make it in the league. He was coming back and saying... too small? Look at this list of small players. His point isn't that Huds is an all star player, but that size CAN be overcome.

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What does that have to do with anything? He's still much better then Hudler.

The point is, that Hudler hasn't been given anywhere near the minutes that Briere has over the last 3 or 4 years.

Remember, this kid scored 15 goals last year (4 less than Lang) playing with table-scrap ice time.

Not saying that Hudler will be as good as Briere, but the point is, no one could have redicted that guys like Briere and St. Louis would explode the way they did over night either.

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I don't get why everyone has Datsyuk and Zetterberg broken up. Remember how awful they both were at the start of the season last year when not playing together?

Personally I think the 2nd line sucks. Unless Hudler becomes the next Cliff Ronning (a very successful small forward in the NHL for those who don't know), he isn't going to make it in this league.

Yeah, but apparently everyone thinks that Zetterberg and Datsyuk can suddenly make anyone from Franzen to Hudler a bona fide top sixer. The days of Zetterberg being able to carry Sammy and Homer, while Datsyuk plays with a guy like Shanahan are over.

It makes SO much sense to split up the two guys that have the best chemistry together in the league (who arent twin brothers). :ph34r:

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This aint the playoffs though, there better together then apart. Who needs a 2nd line when your top line is Z-D-H , they all can score 30+ goals if there healthy and alot of points.

Exactly. Coaches spend all their time trying to find guys that have chemistry with one another. Babs should spend his time seeing what the leftovers can do on their own 2nd line.

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Yeah, but apparently everyone thinks that Zetterberg and Datsyuk can suddenly make anyone from Franzen to Hudler a bona fide top sixer. The days of Zetterberg being able to carry Sammy and Homer, while Datsyuk plays with a guy like Shanahan are over.

It makes SO much sense to split up the two guys that have the best chemistry together in the league (who arent twin brothers). :ph34r:

Thank you.

Last year at the start, Babcock actually had Zetterberg on the same line as Draper, thinking he could Draper to score goals. That just proves that Zetterberg, for as talented as he is, cannot make anyone at anytime a top 6 forward. This is why they shouldn't be broken up.

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Let the kiddies play a little more.

Besides, Franzen and Cleary are coming into their own I think is dependable wingers for around 15+ goals a season. If they can do their part and Samuelsson get around 20/yr, that'll cover some "2nd line scoring", in a hypothetcial example.

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I think the signing of Drake helps them out. They have a lot of combinations now that they can try. If Grigerinko makes the team, he, Cleary, Drake, and Filppula can fit anywhere from the 2nd to 4th lines. They have to separate Zetterberg and Datsyuk this year, except on the PP, because the other teams can shut down one line. They need to spread the wealth. A lot of people thought going into last year that the Wings were done, but they almost made the Stanley Cup Finals. Some of the young guys got a lot of playoff experience, which will be key. We have seen that they don't always have to win the regular season. They can test the young guys and give some prospects some time, to see what they can do.

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Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

with our current roster.

id roll these lines

Cleary(06-07 his breakout season?) - Dats - Homer

Hudler - Z - Val

Grigs?? - draper - sammy

Maltby - Franzen - Drake

AS it stands id perfer

Val- Dats- Homer

Hudler-Z-Cleary

Grigs-Franzen-Sammy

Drake-Drapes-malts

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I seriously hate it when people do this. Yes, let's compare Hudler to a list which features current all-star players, and potential HOF's.

:lol: Well it wouldn't serve my argument to put him up there with crap. All I'm saying is that the current NHL isn't a no man's land for hobbits like Huddles. It's just tough playing against 6'5" freaks ;)

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Thank you.

Last year at the start, Babcock actually had Zetterberg on the same line as Draper, thinking he could Draper to score goals. That just proves that Zetterberg, for as talented as he is, cannot make anyone at anytime a top 6 forward. This is why they shouldn't be broken up.

Yes, but with guys that are skilled like Filppula, Hudler, Grigorenko getting more and more ice time... wouldn't it make sense to seperate Datsyuk and Zata to see if the kids have the talent to play along side these guys and learn from them, while in the process creating two scoring lines instead of one? Hudler proved that he can score 15 goals with VERY little ice time. Is he small? yes, but did he still score those goals? of course. I think Hudler has the potential to score 25+ goals playing a full season on the 1st or 2nd line. Zetterberg or Datsyuk split up could only give these kids a chance to show what they have. Of course if that doesn't work, you know that Babs will put Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Holmstrom back together and we'll figure something out through a trade before the deadline to address another scorer on the top two lines. This is also assuming we don't sign any of the tier 2 players left on the UFA market.

Although Ekman, even though he is not HUGE or anything, interests me because he did do well in SJ and we could use that kind of production here on our second line. Plus the fact that he is a Swede could mean he'd mesh well on Zetterberg's wing.... Think about this: Ekman - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

^ That line would clean up in my opinion.

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Grigorenko Datsyuk Holmstrom

Franzen Zetterberg Samuelsson

Hudler Filppula Cleary

Maltby Draper Drake

Kopecky

on the top line and never played a single NHL game?

i dont know too much about grigorenko, but if he is getting that kind of hype without playing in the NHL already, i like.

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Grigorenko Datsyuk Holmstrom

Franzen Zetterberg Samuelsson

Hudler Filppula Cleary

Maltby Draper Drake

Kopecky

I'm not gonna go too hard on this because I am too lazy to make my own lines and you are not.

However: Grigorenko needs some time to adjust, although he may be a top six guy nearing the end of the season. Draper, Maltby, and Franzen need to be on the third line as shutdown guys. Cleary would be on the 2nd line, although both guys are interchangeable based on performance and chemistry. One of the young guys needs to take Sammy's spot.

Hudler Datsyuk Holmstrom

Cleary Zetterberg Grigorenko

Maltby Draper Franzen

Drake Filppula Samuelsson

Kopecky

What I hate about this is that Filppula deserves a shot. We have too many centers! If he was a winger I would give him a top six spot in a heartbeat. I guess it all comes down to who is ready to step up, who were flashes in the pan, and whether Zetterberg and Datsyuk can play without each other.

We have enough pieces, I just hope Babcock can find out how to get the best out of them, or discover that one of the centers is built to be a winger and makes somebody a star.

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I'm not gonna go too hard on this because I am too lazy to make my own lines and you are not.

However: Grigorenko needs some time to adjust, although he may be a top six guy nearing the end of the season. Draper, Maltby, and Franzen need to be on the third line as shutdown guys. Cleary would be on the 2nd line, although both guys are interchangeable based on performance and chemistry. One of the young guys needs to take Sammy's spot.

Hudler Datsyuk Holmstrom

Cleary Zetterberg Grigorenko

Maltby Draper Franzen

Drake Filppula Samuelsson

Kopecky

What I hate about this is that Filppula deserves a shot. We have too many centers! If he was a winger I would give him a top six spot in a heartbeat. I guess it all comes down to who is ready to step up, who were flashes in the pan, and whether Zetterberg and Datsyuk can play without each other.

We have enough pieces, I just hope Babcock can find out how to get the best out of them, or discover that one of the centers is built to be a winger and makes somebody a star.

It's okay you can "go hard" on me if you want

I don't really buy into all the top 6 winger etc talk.. hockey teams have 4 lines you run them depending on the situations.. the lines I listed are what I think we could possibly start the season with:

Grigorenko Datsyuk Holmstrom

Franzen Zetterberg Samuelsson

Hudler Filppula Cleary

Maltby Draper Drake

Kopecky

Like I said... don't get too hung up in the the list I put them.. I could put Grigorenko Datsyuk and Holmstrom as the 4th line it really makes no difference, the fact is that Grigorenko is coming over to score goals and play with other talented players. Russian finisher with a Russian playmaker? Sounds good to me... they are going to atleast try it once. All swede line is also a good possibility, it happened at times throughout the year and in the playoffs and it'll happen again.. Franzen is starting to become more dominant and will likely be used more than a checking forward for next season. Hudler, Filppula and Cleary can put together a solid scoring/work horse line, the kids have obvious chemistry and Cleary is a finisher who isn't afraid to get dirty if he has to, Cleary has showed that he can score wherever he is playing so I doubt he will play along side Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Maltby, Draper and Drake is pretty much a pencil in, but like you said... Franzen could be a possiblity if things don't work out with Drake. Even Cleary or Kopecky could take shifts with the line.

Here is the thing about Grigorenko... No, he has not proven anything at the NHL level, but just because I list him alongside Datsyuk does not mean they will share minutes or anything like that, but when Grigorenko is on the ice chances are he is out there with some of our best players

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how it seemed last season is that with z and datsyuk on the same line, the two of them were much better (at least "better" in the sense of getting more points, maybe not in contributing to the whole team overall). but you have to figure out if putting, say, zetterberg on a line with hudler and flip will improve their collective point totals, while if putting dats on a line with homer and whoever else (sammy is not a first-liner; i'd like cleary to be, but who knows; i'd love franzen to really come into his own and take charge of a top-six slot) raises the overall goal scoring of the team. maybe the euro-twins won't get a hundred points each, but i'd still rather have six or seven twenty-goal scorers than a team with two guys who score 105 points and a bunch of forwards who get 30 points a season.

there were all those stats of the z-dats-homer line being like the hottest line in the league after getting put together. i'd LOVE that line to stay intact as long as, say, a huds-flip-franzen line can actually be responsible for a goal or two a game on a consistent basis. with line # 1 putting up massive point totals, if we can get 60 goals out of a second line, have draper and malts still checking the hell out of people and one other line that at least pulls its weight, we'll be fine.

all that to say: we cannot survive on one sensational line. if we can't get a good second line, i think the team will be better off splitting up z and dats, except maybe in situations where it's late and the game, no one's been producing, and we NEED a goal.

we'll see what happens; i have faith.

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Personally I think the 2nd line sucks. Unless Hudler becomes the next Cliff Ronning (a very successful small forward in the NHL for those who don't know), he isn't going to make it in this league.

I agree. I'm a little worried about not having another big name forward. I don't think Hudler can hang with the big guys all season. Just my opinion. Every time I look at the roster I can't help but think " there is definitely someone missing".

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Yeah, but apparently everyone thinks that Zetterberg and Datsyuk can suddenly make anyone from Franzen to Hudler a bona fide top sixer. The days of Zetterberg being able to carry Sammy and Homer, while Datsyuk plays with a guy like Shanahan are over.

It makes SO much sense to split up the two guys that have the best chemistry together in the league (who arent twin brothers). :ph34r:

Don't sell it to us. Babcock, Bowman and Holland all think Zetterberg is better at centre. And he is.

We'll do the same thing we did last year. If we're struggling to put up offense, they'll play together again. If not, they'll stay apart.

In 05-06, Zetterberg pretty much spent the entire season between Homer and Sammy and it worked great. But Datsyuk has Shanny at the time.

This past season Sammy got hurt, Shanny was gone so there was nobody for either of them to work with.

So if Hudler, Sammy, Grigs or Filp can find any kind of scoring touch, we'll have two solid lines instead of one.

The fact is, Zetterberg is a centerman and plays better at his natural position. Why wouldn't the coaching staff want him to play where he can provide more of his skills?

Until the Wings show that they can't score goals without the two of them together, expect Z and Dats to be centering their own lines on opening night.

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i think offense is definitely our weak spot. i wish holland would have done something to address this. i was excited to see what bertuzzi could do when 100% and more comfortable with his role here. and losing lang hurts, too. although i'm glad to see him go and certainly wasn't his biggest fan while he was here, he was a shoe-in for at least 50 points a season, and right now we have nobody to replace that. hopefully the kids can step it up, but right now we're a one line team that will be shut down. we were pretty much a one line team last year and we've lost our two best offensive producers from that line. and if dats and z are split up we are kind of like a 2 half-line-team :blink: , which isn't any better. i think we'll have a good team, but unless some young guys are able to step up in a big way, i don't think we'll seriously challenge for the cup with this lineup.

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