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d-city

Zetterberg, Datsyuk on separate lines?

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Q: I realize Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg were dominant on the same line last season, but wouldn't it be better if they were used on different lines? That way the offense would be spread out and the second line stronger.

-- Jack

The plan is for Datsyuk and Zetterberg to start the season on separate lines, both playing center. Ideally, this would give the Wings two strong lines and make it more difficult for opponents to match their top checking line against both players. But, it's hard to ignore how well they played together, along with Tomas Holmstrom, from December to late February, when Zetterberg hurt his back. If one or both get off to a slow start, like last year, then expect them to be reunited again.

Q: Any new rumors about the Wings going after anybody else? What's the status on Markov or Yashin?

-- Chris

They weren't interested in Alexei Yashin, who signed with a Russian team. Danny Markov remains unsigned, but he's not likely to be back because he wants more money and a longer term than the Wings offered (one or two years at around the same $2.5 million salary he earned last season). The Wings need a second-line forward but don't like any of the players immediately available (Mike Peca, Eric Lindros, Anson Carter, Martin Gelinas). Peter Forsberg, who'll probably return after the start of the season, is a possibility. Teemu Selanne is still out there but hasn't decided if he'll retire. Andy Sutton, Janne Niinimaa and Brent Sopel are among the defenseman still available, but getting a scoring winger should be a priority.

Q: What is the drawback of making Anson Carter a Red Wing?

-- Cam

What's the benefit? Sure, he'd provide some offense, but he's a soft player and a defensive liability who can't stay in one place for long. There seem to be a lot of people panicking about the Wings' lack of movement this summer. But, really, what's the rush? Why waste valuable cap space (they have between $4-$6 million) on somebody you don't like? The trading deadline is seven months away and it's not like this team is in danger of missing the playoffs. Have you checked out the Central Division lately? I think the Wings have already clinched it.

Q: Why did the Wings sign Dallas Drake? He's old and washed up. I don't understand why they keep recycling their former players.

-- Dan

He was cheap ($550,000) and can provide a physical element they lack. They're always looking to be a harder team to play against. Drake can be the kind of agitating presence they've lacked, sort of like what Kirk Maltby was before the lockout. Maybe he won't pan out, but for half a million he's worth a shot. It's not like he's preventing them from signing someone else or taking somebody's spot. As far as their tendency to bring back ex-Wings (Dominik Hasek, Chris Osgood, Greg Johnson, Drake -- whoever else), I think they just feel comfortable with players they know. And, incidentally, Sergei Fedorov and Martin Lapointe will probably be available by the trade deadline.

Q. Shouldn't the Wings sign Dustin Penner to an offer sheet? Maybe the Ducks, who are against the cap, won't be able to match it.

-- Steve

It would probably be a waste of time. The most the Wings could offer is around $4-$5 million a season and the Ducks are sure to match any offer this talented, young power forward gets. Anaheim will have to dump some salary in the unlikely event that Scott Niedermayer decides to come back, but whatever GM Brian Burke has to do to keep Penner, you can bet he'll do it.

Q. When are the Wings planning to lock up Henrik Zetterberg to a long-term contract?

-- S.J.

He has two more years left on his current deal, so he can't sign an extension until July 1, 2008. That would be a good day to get a deal done, like San Jose did with Joe Thornton earlier this month. I'd anticipate they'd want Zetterberg signed to a really long term, maybe seven years, like Datsyuk. And probably for slightly more than Datsyuk, perhaps $7-to-$7.5 million a season. It shouldn't be a problem, considering the cap has already ballooned from $39 million to $50.3 million in just two years thanks mainly to a strong Canadian dollar.

Q. Any chance the Wings will host an outdoor game this season or in the future?

-- Pat

Definitely not this season, and probably not anytime soon, if ever. It's something they've explored in the past, but they feel it's too cost-prohibitive, and Comerica Park's seating configuration wouldn't make it ideal for fans. Plus, the luster of such an event, at least for them, has worn off after Edmonton hosted an outdoor game a few years ago. The Sabres and Penguins will reportedly play an outdoor game in Buffalo this season, something that'll probably be announced soon.

http://blog.mlive.com/redwingsinsider/ --------------------- THE LINK

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Specifically to the topic title, ALWAYS keep them together on the power play, but if the team isn't running dry on goals, I'd like to see them separate on even strength, spread the wealth kinda thing. I'd like to see more of a Flipper-Datsyuk-Homer line again, if all the lines make sense going into the season. If the Wings are really lacking offense though, put the two together on even strength.

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I'd like to see more of a Flipper-Datsyuk-Homer line again

Personally I think that would be the best move they could make. Moving Zetterberg to second line center, and putting that line back together. During the time that line was together when Z was out they seemed to have good chemistry, and they were producing. It would be interesting to see what Filppula can do with more ice time. I also think we should put Cleary and Hudler on the second line with Z. I don't know if that would work, but it is just an idea.

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Personally, I like having Zetterberg and Datsyuk play on the same line, but I can see the attraction in separating them to better distribute the scoring. I really liked the way that Filppula played on Pavel's left when Z was out of the lineup. It was like watching "Z-Lite".

However, I don't think you'll see Filppula there, as Grigorenko has already been slotted to play on Datsyuk's line, and I don't think they'd want Pavel out there with those two. So, I'm betting that Filppula plays with Zetterberg & Samuelsson or Cleary and that Pavel will center Grigorenko & Holmstrom. That's not too bad. We've got enough parts to play a number of different players in the top 2 lines and have very respectable 3rd & 4th lines.

My preferred line combinations as the roster stands now:

Filppula, Zetterberg, Samuelsson

Grigorenko, Datsyuk, Holmstrom

Maltby, Draper, Drake

Hudler, Franzen, Cleary

Kopecky

Lidstrom, Kronwall

Lebda, Rafalski

Chelios, Lilja

Meech, Quincey

Hasek, Osgood

Really....what other options do they have if they keep the Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom line together?

A second line of Cleary, Filppula & Samuelsson?

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Personally, I like having Zetterberg and Datsyuk play on the same line, but I can see the attraction in separating them to better distribute the scoring. I really liked the way that Filppula played on Pavel's left when Z was out of the lineup. It was like watching "Z-Lite".

However, I don't think you'll see Filppula there, as Grigorenko has already been slotted to play on Datsyuk's line, and I don't think they'd want Pavel out there with those two. So, I'm betting that Filppula plays with Zetterberg & Samuelsson or Cleary and that Pavel will center Grigorenko & Holmstrom. That's not too bad. We've got enough parts to play a number of different players in the top 2 lines and have very respectable 3rd & 4th lines.

My preferred line combinations as the roster stands now:

Filppula, Zetterberg, Samuelsson

Grigorenko, Datsyuk, Holmstrom

Maltby, Draper, Drake

Hudler, Franzen, Cleary

Kopecky

Lidstrom, Kronwall

Lebda, Rafalski

Chelios, Lilja

Meech, Quincey

Hasek, Osgood

Really....what other options do they have if they keep the Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom line together?

A second line of Cleary, Filppula & Samuelsson?

I wouldn't mind seeing a line with Franzen , Filppula and Cleary together that wouldn't be that bad of a second line IMO.

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Good post d-city.

And Nill all but proved that Dats and Z will be playing as centres, on seperate lines, when he said that Grigs would be tried with Dats on the 2nd line.

Homer-Zetts-Sammy (worked great in 05-06 season)

Franzen/Flip-Dats-Grigs

Hudler-Flip/Franzen-Cleary

Drake-Drapes-Maltby

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The more I see those lines the more I want a

Drake - Franzen - Cleary line

I know Babs said Drake is going to be Kopecky's mentor so does that mean they are next to each other in the locker room, or on the same line.

Damn that line would be a really tough one to play against. The youth on that line are aggressive and talented, this would be a great 3rd line IMO!!

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The more I see those lines the more I want a

Drake - Franzen - Cleary line

I know Babs said Drake is going to be Kopecky's mentor so does that mean they are next to each other in the locker room, or on the same line.

Damn that line would be a really tough one to play against. The youth on that line are aggressive and talented, this would be a great 3rd line IMO!!

I don't know what that comment about Drake mentoring Kopecky meant. Why can't Maltby mentor Kopecky? Maybe Drake speaks fluent Slovak. As far as those lineups, I'd like to see another right handed forward, especially one that can take faceoffs now that Lang is gone.

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I like the way Thunderpriest's line set-up, except for putting Cheli with Lilja. It seems to me they would be MORE of a liability together than seperate. Cheli needs to play with someone that has some speed, and Lilja - well, I hope he's been practicing over the summer. Otherwise, I'd prefer to see Quincey play and Lilja sit. By the way, this is my first post - I like the site, and I'm definitely NOT going to pay another year to stay on REDWINGSWORLD.com. It has a lukewarm forum and no other real bonuses. Thanks for having a site like this!

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I like the way Thunderpriest's line set-up, except for putting Cheli with Lilja. It seems to me they would be MORE of a liability together than seperate. Cheli needs to play with someone that has some speed, and Lilja - well, I hope he's been practicing over the summer. Otherwise, I'd prefer to see Quincey play and Lilja sit. By the way, this is my first post - I like the site, and I'm definitely NOT going to pay another year to stay on REDWINGSWORLD.com. It has a lukewarm forum and no other real bonuses. Thanks for having a site like this!

If Lilja sits, then who will be our feared enforcer?

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I dont understand this. They were THE BEST line in the NHL after being assembled and before injuries. We arent talking about two kinda good guys who have good chemistry being on the same line - we're talking about the two guys that just might have THE greatest chemistry of any two players in the league. They make magic when they are together. No reason to break that up. Secondly, Filppula needs this time to play in his natural position. He needs to prove that he can take that big faceoff and be the main puck distributer. Not to mention, putting him in his center position also allows him to become more responsible defensively. Its about time Detroit started giving their young guys responsibility in their first few seasons instead of waiting til their 4th season to put them back in their original position, like Detroit did with Zetterberg.

Edited by YoungGuns1340

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I dont understand this. They were THE BEST line in the NHL after being assembled and before injuries. We arent talking about two kinda good guys who have good chemistry being on the same line - we're talking about the two guys that just might have THE greatest chemistry of any two players in the league. They make magic when they are together. No reason to break that up. Secondly, Filppula needs this time to play in his natural position. He needs to prove that he can take that big faceoff and be the main puck distributer. Not to mention, putting him in his center position also allows him to become more responsible defensively. Its about time Detroit started giving their young guys responsibility in their first few seasons instead of waiting til their 4th season to put them back in their original position, like Detroit did with Zetterberg.

The issue is two fold:

1. We dont' have a seasoned vet that can carry the 2nd line. Last year, love him or hate him, Bob Lang had the skill and experience to carry a 2nd line. And in many cases he was still able to generate offense despite playing with 2 nobody's. If Z and Dats played on the same line we would have either Draper or Filpulla as our #2. Filp is going to be great but he's not ready yet. It woudl be like having Zetts centre our #2 in his sophomore year. Not a good idea. And Draper has no scoring talent so putting him in the 2-spot would be useless.

2. Zetterberg is better and more complete at centre than on the Wing. He brings a whole new dynamic to the game up the middle. Babs, Holland, Bowman and Zetterberg all want Z to be at centre. He'll help the wings actually HAVE a 2nd line and force other teams to worry about 2 good lines rather than 1 great one.

Think about it this way. In 1982, what if the Oilers kept Messier as a LW and had him with Gretzky the whole time forcing Matti Hagman to be their #2? You'd be in a lot of trouble.

Same with the Pens two seasons ago. They put Crosby with Lemieux for a time and Lemieux said he loved it as the two had great chemistry with one another as well. But then they relied on Ryan Malone (a natural winger) to be the #2 centre. Eventually Olcyk realised that they needed a 2nd line presence and Crosby was moved back to his natural position at centre.

Everyone loves how the two of them play together and it's true they're very good. But with them apart, and with Zetts at his natural position, the Wings are FAR more dangerous and dynamic. With the two of them together, we'll be shut down far too easily as Filp and the rest can't be counted on to carry a 2nd line and give us another scoring threat.

It's time for people to let the dream die. Zetts and Dats are both centres and it's best for the Wings if we let them play those positions - seperately.

Edited by Hank

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Agreed Hank. We've got two elite centres that play really amazing together. Keep them together on the man advantage but we can't ignore the fact that Z is a great centre and we need two elite lines.

As long as Sammy isn't playing top six we're golden.

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I'd rather see them stay together , if it ain't broke why fix it kinda thing. put in Filppula as the second line centre and get someone experienced to play beside him.

I don't feel its an issue of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The problem is if the Z-Dats-Homer line is reunited, teams will stack their shutdown lines against them. Don't get me wrong, it didn't seem to work to well for other teams from December-February of last year, but the playoffs are different. Separating Z and Dats makes the Wings offense that much harder to play against, and as stated, if the two of them struggle apart, you can always put them back together to jumpstart their production.

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I don't feel its an issue of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The problem is if the Z-Dats-Homer line is reunited, teams will stack their shutdown lines against them. Don't get me wrong, it didn't seem to work to well for other teams from December-February of last year, but the playoffs are different. Separating Z and Dats makes the Wings offense that much harder to play against, and as stated, if the two of them struggle apart, you can always put them back together to jumpstart their production.

Plus, to be honest, I think they both enjoy playing together so much that it's almost like a treat for them to get some ice time together. By the way they practice together it's clear they're close friends. If they are only paired up after a bit of strife maybe the magic will stay fun and new to them without becoming hum-drum?

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Plus, to be honest, I think they both enjoy playing together so much that it's almost like a treat for them to get some ice time together. By the way they practice together it's clear they're close friends. If they are only paired up after a bit of strife maybe the magic will stay fun and new to them without becoming hum-drum?

Good points. I think it also lets them grow into seperate leadership roles. With both of them having the 'duty' of carrying their own lines it will help them blossom in the dressing room as well.

Besides, I'm kind of selfish in that I like Z as a centre.

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Q: I realize Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg were dominant on the same line last season, but wouldn't it be better if they were used on different lines? That way the offense would be spread out and the second line stronger.

-- Jack

The plan is for Datsyuk and Zetterberg to start the season on separate lines, both playing center. Ideally, this would give the Wings two strong lines and make it more difficult for opponents to match their top checking line against both players. But, it's hard to ignore how well they played together, along with Tomas Holmstrom, from December to late February, when Zetterberg hurt his back. If one or both get off to a slow start, like last year, then expect them to be reunited again.

Q: Any new rumors about the Wings going after anybody else? What's the status on Markov or Yashin?

-- Chris

They weren't interested in Alexei Yashin, who signed with a Russian team. Danny Markov remains unsigned, but he's not likely to be back because he wants more money and a longer term than the Wings offered (one or two years at around the same $2.5 million salary he earned last season). The Wings need a second-line forward but don't like any of the players immediately available (Mike Peca, Eric Lindros, Anson Carter, Martin Gelinas). Peter Forsberg, who'll probably return after the start of the season, is a possibility. Teemu Selanne is still out there but hasn't decided if he'll retire. Andy Sutton, Janne Niinimaa and Brent Sopel are among the defenseman still available, but getting a scoring winger should be a priority.

Q: What is the drawback of making Anson Carter a Red Wing?

-- Cam

What's the benefit? Sure, he'd provide some offense, but he's a soft player and a defensive liability who can't stay in one place for long. There seem to be a lot of people panicking about the Wings' lack of movement this summer. But, really, what's the rush? Why waste valuable cap space (they have between $4-$6 million) on somebody you don't like? The trading deadline is seven months away and it's not like this team is in danger of missing the playoffs. Have you checked out the Central Division lately? I think the Wings have already clinched it.

Q: Why did the Wings sign Dallas Drake? He's old and washed up. I don't understand why they keep recycling their former players.

-- Dan

He was cheap ($550,000) and can provide a physical element they lack. They're always looking to be a harder team to play against. Drake can be the kind of agitating presence they've lacked, sort of like what Kirk Maltby was before the lockout. Maybe he won't pan out, but for half a million he's worth a shot. It's not like he's preventing them from signing someone else or taking somebody's spot. As far as their tendency to bring back ex-Wings (Dominik Hasek, Chris Osgood, Greg Johnson, Drake -- whoever else), I think they just feel comfortable with players they know. And, incidentally, Sergei Fedorov and Martin Lapointe will probably be available by the trade deadline.

Q. Shouldn't the Wings sign Dustin Penner to an offer sheet? Maybe the Ducks, who are against the cap, won't be able to match it.

-- Steve

It would probably be a waste of time. The most the Wings could offer is around $4-$5 million a season and the Ducks are sure to match any offer this talented, young power forward gets. Anaheim will have to dump some salary in the unlikely event that Scott Niedermayer decides to come back, but whatever GM Brian Burke has to do to keep Penner, you can bet he'll do it.

Q. When are the Wings planning to lock up Henrik Zetterberg to a long-term contract?

-- S.J.

He has two more years left on his current deal, so he can't sign an extension until July 1, 2008. That would be a good day to get a deal done, like San Jose did with Joe Thornton earlier this month. I'd anticipate they'd want Zetterberg signed to a really long term, maybe seven years, like Datsyuk. And probably for slightly more than Datsyuk, perhaps $7-to-$7.5 million a season. It shouldn't be a problem, considering the cap has already ballooned from $39 million to $50.3 million in just two years thanks mainly to a strong Canadian dollar.

Q. Any chance the Wings will host an outdoor game this season or in the future?

-- Pat

Definitely not this season, and probably not anytime soon, if ever. It's something they've explored in the past, but they feel it's too cost-prohibitive, and Comerica Park's seating configuration wouldn't make it ideal for fans. Plus, the luster of such an event, at least for them, has worn off after Edmonton hosted an outdoor game a few years ago. The Sabres and Penguins will reportedly play an outdoor game in Buffalo this season, something that'll probably be announced soon.

http://blog.mlive.com/redwingsinsider/ --------------------- THE LINK

I keep wondering what wrong with the forwards detroit,as it is if Igor wins a spot they will have to sit someone.they have 13 forwards signed.

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I like the way Thunderpriest's line set-up, except for putting Cheli with Lilja. It seems to me they would be MORE of a liability together than seperate. Cheli needs to play with someone that has some speed, and Lilja - well, I hope he's been practicing over the summer. Otherwise, I'd prefer to see Quincey play and Lilja sit. By the way, this is my first post - I like the site, and I'm definitely NOT going to pay another year to stay on REDWINGSWORLD.com. It has a lukewarm forum and no other real bonuses. Thanks for having a site like this!

The problem is this:

I didn't want Lilja in the top 4. I wanted him booted from the lineup during the regular season last year. However, his play during the playoffs acquitted him in my eyes. He played much better than I had anticipated. I still had a bad taste from the regular season, though. So, should we play Lilja with Lidstrom or Rafalksi? I don't think so.

You play Kronwall with Lidstrom. That's solid.

Rafalski has been known to turn the puck over, so you put Lebda out there to use his speed to help cover any turnovers.

That leaves Lilja & Chelios on a regular basis, and Meech/Quincy can get time when Chelios or Lilja sit.

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The problem is this:

I didn't want Lilja in the top 4. I wanted him booted from the lineup during the regular season last year. However, his play during the playoffs acquitted him in my eyes. He played much better than I had anticipated. I still had a bad taste from the regular season, though. So, should we play Lilja with Lidstrom or Rafalksi? I don't think so.

You play Kronwall with Lidstrom. That's solid.

Rafalski has been known to turn the puck over, so you put Lebda out there to use his speed to help cover any turnovers.

That leaves Lilja & Chelios on a regular basis, and Meech/Quincy can get time when Chelios or Lilja sit.

Bah! You put Sammy in the top 3 so why wouldn't you put Lillypads in the top 4? Lilly actually played well with Lids during the playoffs. Plus I think he's the minimum risk when paired up with Lids since Lidstrom can carry pretty much anyone with him. Pairing Lilja with a weaker defenseman would only increase the likelyhood of his mistakes being costly. Plus it's nice to have a physical presense out with Lids.

Let's not forget that Kroner will likely be out from December-March with some injury.

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The problem is this:

I didn't want Lilja in the top 4. I wanted him booted from the lineup during the regular season last year. However, his play during the playoffs acquitted him in my eyes. He played much better than I had anticipated. I still had a bad taste from the regular season, though. So, should we play Lilja with Lidstrom or Rafalksi? I don't think so.

You play Kronwall with Lidstrom. That's solid.

Rafalski has been known to turn the puck over, so you put Lebda out there to use his speed to help cover any turnovers.

That leaves Lilja & Chelios on a regular basis, and Meech/Quincy can get time when Chelios or Lilja sit.

Oh great. So when Lilja turns the puck over, Chelios will have to cover for him with his speed.

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