Mule to be a beast

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Watching his play improve over the past 2 years, I think that Johan could really up his production this year.

He showed that he can go to the net and is almost unstoppable when he does this. Given the right line mates

this year, I see him potentially filling the void left by Bert with his size and putting up good numbers. Could he

play 1st line? Well put him on the wing with Zetts and Homer and I think we have got a good mix for it. The rest

of the lines could be interesting. If Sammy comes out slow he could find himself on 3rd or even 4th line duties.

Grigs will possably start off on the 3rd or 4th but he is 1st/ 2nd line material and if he settles quickly I see him playing

on the top 2 lines regularly and PP as well. Competition for ice time is going to be good this year, Flip will be vying

for more, and what numbers could Rex put up if he gets 15mins this year? Drake has been brought in to cox the

likes of Kopecky but who's to say either will see much action next year. I really do feel that we have 2/3 guys who

are going to be pushing for a roster spot out of camp this Sept, maybe some of the senior players aren't as safe as

they may think. Quincey, Kindl and Meech will all be pushing for the final D spot and I expect all 3 to see time in Detroit

next year. Meech could be a casualty as he will be picked off waivers if he's sent back to GR. Could we see one of the forward invite's make a grab for the remaining roster spot, another Cleary type player wouldn't go a miss!

So who do you reckon?

My guess is that they'll go with Quincey although my choice would be Kindl.

Surprise of the camp, depends on who gets the invites, but from our own prospect's Helm

will do well and Mursak is going to be a Wing but not this year.

Edited July 27, 2007 by Andy Pred 48

[Dabura 12,206]

I can't see him being a first line fixture -- at least, not at this point in his career.

However, I do expect great things from him this season.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

Franzen will either be on the 2nd or 3rd lines. I also am predicting him to score 20+ this season.

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

I agree with you Andy , I've alway's thaught that about Franzen too. If he's playing on one of the top two lines and getting plenty of TOI he could become a pretty good point's producer and could give the Wings a physical edge on one of the scoring lines.

[IceMunkee 15]

I agree Andrew Predator. I am happy with the Wings' lineup. I would like a top 6 forward but who wouldn't. I would sacrifice our left over space for Teemu. Although I think that is unrealistic. I am very excited for Johan this season as well as Cleary and some others.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

He reminds me a little of Homer when he first came to the Wings, except that he's bigger and better defensively.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Watching his play improve over the past 2 years, I think that Johan could really up his production this year.

He showed that he can go to the net and is almost unstoppable when he does this. Given the right line mates

this year, I see him potentially filling the void left by Bert with his size and putting up good numbers. Could he play 1st line? Well put him on the wing with Zetts and Homer and I think we have got a good mix for it. The rest of the lines could be interesting.

That's pretty optimistic. He's looking like the foundation of our future grindline, which is a very important role to play on this team considering that all the grit is focused on a single line. He played well in the playoffs, but he didn't look like Cleary out there (ie. he was nice and physical but not a constant scoring threat game in and game out like Cleary was this post-season).

I see Mule as a player more in the mold of Draper and Maltby. Of course he'll need some work to get to the level they were at in their prime (or even the level they are at now), but if we have another career shutdown specialist with great workethic, leadership and the ability to produce timely goals- well s***, I'm a happy camper when it comes to Franzen.

Putting him on the first line is pretty iffy though. I'd rather see him on the second line with Z and Cleary. If he picks up half Z's defensive awareness and combines it with that famous Cleary hussle and workethic it'll mold him into the perfect player for our future grindline needs.

I love his potential but don't really see him as a 20+ goal player. (please prove me wrong Mule!)

If Sammy comes out slow he could find himself on 3rd or even 4th line duties.

Sammy's role is to be a conduit for Dats and Z to score through. To be honest, my real vitriol towards Sammy comes from the fact that he's given huge minutes with these guys (minutes better spent on promising young players like Filppula and Hudler) but doesn't seem to be a work in progress. He's just a 3rd/4th line player who is enhanced by the play of two incredible centres. That's all well in good, but not optimal. We need players who can allow Z and Dats to actually play to their full potential.

Grigs will possably start off on the 3rd or 4th but he is 1st/ 2nd line material and if he settles quickly I see him playing

on the top 2 lines regularly and PP as well.

I hope you're right! I think Grigs is the type of player who would really benefit from a strong rookie season. Let his confidence soar and watch this play elevate. If he gets the typical Red Wing rookie treatment he'll likely get discouraged and play poorer. He needs to feel like he's 100% past the accident and living up to his potential.

Quincey, Kindl and Meech will all be pushing for the final D spot and I expect all 3 to see time in Detroit

next year. Meech could be a casualty as he will be picked off waivers if he's sent back to GR. Could we see one of the forward invite's make a grab for the remaining roster spot, another Cleary type player wouldn't go a miss!

So who do you reckon?

My guess is that they'll go with Quincey although my choice would be Kindl.

I agree on Kindl. Quincey is apparently a cool headed player who's likely to be a solid 2nd or 3rd pairing Dman. But the real minutes should be invested in players poised to be top two Dmen.

Edited July 27, 2007 by Drake_Marcus

[grsbmd 0]

and what numbers could Rex put up if he gets 15mins this year?

Logic would dictate that since he scored 15 goals averaging 5 minutes a game, he will score 45 goals averaging 15 minutes a game. So all Babcock has to do is let Hudler play 20 minutes a game and the Richard trophy is his!!!!

[evil204 4]

Logic would dictate that since he scored 15 goals averaging 5 minutes a game, he will score 45 goals averaging 15 minutes a game. So all Babcock has to do is let Hudler play 20 minutes a game and the Richard trophy is his!!!!

Logic would also unfortunately dictate that a Red Wing scoring 45 goals is bound to get injured right before the playoffs

[Guest Crymson]

Watching his play improve over the past 2 years, I think that Johan could really up his production this year.

He showed that he can go to the net and is almost unstoppable when he does this. Given the right line mates

this year, I see him potentially filling the void left by Bert with his size and putting up good numbers. Could he

play 1st line? Well put him on the wing with Zetts and Homer and I think we have got a good mix for it. The rest

of the lines could be interesting. If Sammy comes out slow he could find himself on 3rd or even 4th line duties.

Grigs will possably start off on the 3rd or 4th but he is 1st/ 2nd line material and if he settles quickly I see him playing

on the top 2 lines regularly and PP as well. Competition for ice time is going to be good this year, Flip will be vying

for more, and what numbers could Rex put up if he gets 15mins this year? Drake has been brought in to cox the

likes of Kopecky but who's to say either will see much action next year. I really do feel that we have 2/3 guys who

are going to be pushing for a roster spot out of camp this Sept, maybe some of the senior players aren't as safe as

they may think. Quincey, Kindl and Meech will all be pushing for the final D spot and I expect all 3 to see time in Detroit

next year. Meech could be a casualty as he will be picked off waivers if he's sent back to GR. Could we see one of the forward invite's make a grab for the remaining roster spot, another Cleary type player wouldn't go a miss!

So who do you reckon?

My guess is that they'll go with Quincey although my choice would be Kindl.

Surprise of the camp, depends on who gets the invites, but from our own prospect's Helm

will do well and Mursak is going to be a Wing but not this year.

I agree that Franzen has GREAT potential as a power forward. He is a gem.

You forget that, should we not sign another defenseman, Lilja will get the 6th spot. Quincey, Kindl and Meech are right now fighting for who gets a spot next season. As much as Lilja was the whipping boy these last two seasons, he proved himself in the playoffs and he has far more experience than any of the other three mentioned.

We have no extra roster spot at forward for any GR players, provided that Grigorenko makes the team.

Forwards: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary, Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Grigorenko, Samuelsson, Draper, Maltby, Kopecky (12)

Backups: Ellis (waivers), ?

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Lebda, Chelios, Lilja (6).

Backups: Meech (waivers), Quincey, Kindl

Edited July 27, 2007 by Crymson

[jaymcfly 0]

I agree that Franzen has GREAT potential as a power forward. He is a gem.

You forget that, should we not sign another defenseman, Lilja will get the 6th spot. Quincey, Kindl and Meech are right now fighting for who gets a spot next season. As much as Lilja was the whipping boy these last two seasons, he proved himself in the playoffs and he has far more experience than any of the other three mentioned.

We have no extra roster spot at forward for any GR players, provided that Grigorenko makes the team.

Forwards: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary, Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Grigorenko, Samuelsson, Draper, Maltby, Kopecky (12)

Backups: Ellis (waivers), ?

Defensemen: Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Lebda, Chelios, Lilja (6).

Backups: Meech (waivers), Quincey, Kindl

you forgot drake

[Majsheppard 203]

Uhh, in the playoffs last season I was calling for Johan to be on the second line because he was earning it while Bertuzzi and crew were not.

I still think he should be a top six forward, and with a thiner group at the top he should be given the nod. We certainly have enough 3rd and fourth liners available to let him go up.

[Opie 308]

Uhh, in the playoffs last season I was calling for Johan to be on the second line because he was earning it while Bertuzzi and crew were not.

I still think he should be a top six forward, and with a thiner group at the top he should be given the nod. We certainly have enough 3rd and fourth liners available to let him go up.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember Franzen getting the second line minutes when Lang and bert got demoted to fourth line minutes in the post season. I also remember seeing him get some minutes with bert.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember Franzen getting the second line minutes when Lang and bert got demoted to fourth line minutes in the post season. I also remember seeing him get some minutes with bert.

When Bertuzzi first suited up in the Calgary series, he was paired with Lang and Franzen. Franzen finished up the playoffs on the second line with Zetterberg and Samuelsson. That is the one thing that I like about Babcock as opposed to Dave Lewis, in that he's not afraid to shuffle lines around.

[Guest jaytan]

Watching his play improve over the past 2 years, I think that Johan could really up his production this year.

He showed that he can go to the net and is almost unstoppable when he does this. Given the right line mates

this year, I see him potentially filling the void left by Bert with his size and putting up good numbers. Could he

play 1st line?...

Is there some kind of psychological term for sports fans' tendancity to expect more than they should from players who play for their favorite teams? Fan confirmation bias or something?

It seems like we always think some average player is going to be a star just because he wears the Winged Wheel and we watch him play dozens of times a year. Every time we see him do something good, we believe that he'll always play that way.

Of course, Toronto fans are the best example for this.

Edited July 27, 2007 by jaytan

[Majsheppard 203]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember Franzen getting the second line minutes when Lang and bert got demoted to fourth line minutes in the post season. I also remember seeing him get some minutes with bert.

You are not wrong at all. That did happen.

It was always temporary though and I called for it before hand. Franzen was treated as patchwork, a jack of all trades, a stop gap, and an option B. I think this tread is about him being option A.

I am just saying that I wanted this last year before the playoffs even got going.

They should give him a chance to prove himself.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Is there some kind of psychological term for sports fans' tendancity to expect more than they should from players who play for their favorite teams? Fan confirmation bias or something?

It seems like we always think some average player is going to be a star just because he wears the Winged Wheel and we watch him play dozens of times a year. Every time we see him do something good, we believe that he'll always play that way.

Of course, Toronto fans are the best example for this.

I think that the reason people are so high on Franzen is that he's a lot bigger than our other forwards, and he played well in the playoffs last year. I still don't see him as a 2nd liner, let alone 1st liner, but since we didn't do much in the free agent pool, Franzen will be a top 6 forward this year. As for players being overhyped, I agree with you. Just look at Kopecky, Grigorenko, Kronwall, and Fillpulla, who are looked at by many Wings fans as future stars. Also, when Calder went ice cold in the playoffs last year, people seemed shocked, not realizing that he was cold all year in Philly which is why they got rid of him.

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

I think that the reason people are so high on Franzen is that he's a lot bigger than our other forwards, and he played well in the playoffs last year. I still don't see him as a 2nd liner, let alone 1st liner, but since we didn't do much in the free agent pool, Franzen will be a top 6 forward this year. As for players being overhyped, I agree with you. Just look at Kopecky, Grigorenko, Kronwall, and Fillpulla, who are looked at by many Wings fans as future stars. Also, when Calder went ice cold in the playoffs last year, people seemed shocked, not realizing that he was cold all year in Philly which is why they got rid of him.

Grigs , Kronner and Filppula are looked upon as future stars by most Red Wings because they have the potential to become star player's . most fan's have player's on their favourite team's that they're looking to do the exact same .

[Guest Crymson]

Is there some kind of psychological term for sports fans' tendancity to expect more than they should from players who play for their favorite teams? Fan confirmation bias or something?

It seems like we always think some average player is going to be a star just because he wears the Winged Wheel and we watch him play dozens of times a year. Every time we see him do something good, we believe that he'll always play that way.

Of course, Toronto fans are the best example for this.

Is there some kind of psychological term for people who call themselves 'fans' and yet viciously attack any voice of hope or optimism about team they root for?

[DreamsofHope 2]

Is there some kind of psychological term for people who call themselves 'fans' and yet viciously attack any voice of hope or optimism about team they root for?

Out of context this is well, well said. Happens far to often!

[chrisdetroit 189]

I agree with you Andy , I've alway's thaught that about Franzen too. If he's playing on one of the top two lines and getting plenty of TOI he could become a pretty good point's producer and could give the Wings a physical edge on one of the scoring lines.

He needs to play more physical and with his size, he could really up his game. He really picked it up in the playoffs and this could be his break-out year. We need him to be physical and the goals will come.

I think that the reason people are so high on Franzen is that he's a lot bigger than our other forwards, and he played well in the playoffs last year. I still don't see him as a 2nd liner, let alone 1st liner, but since we didn't do much in the free agent pool, Franzen will be a top 6 forward this year. As for players being overhyped, I agree with you. Just look at Kopecky, Grigorenko, Kronwall, and Fillpulla, who are looked at by many Wings fans as future stars. Also, when Calder went ice cold in the playoffs last year, people seemed shocked, not realizing that he was cold all year in Philly which is why they got rid of him.

Agreed Kopecky and Gigorenko have not show much (or anything) at the NHL level and Kronwall has not been consistant even when he's not injured. Filpulla, on the other hand has played brilliantly most of the time on the ice. He's shown to be very good defnesively also. He reminds me of Z.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Is there some kind of psychological term for people who call themselves 'fans' and yet viciously attack any voice of hope or optimism about team they root for?

The term is "Debbie Downer."

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Is there some kind of psychological term for people who call themselves 'fans' and yet viciously attack any voice of hope or optimism about team they root for?

Be careful. That one may come back to bite you

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

He needs to play more physical and with his size, he could really up his game. He really picked it up in the playoffs and this could be his break-out year. We need him to be physical and the goals will come.

Agreed Kopecky and Gigorenko have not show much (or anything) at the NHL level and Kronwall has not been consistant even when he's not injured. Filpulla, on the other hand has played brilliantly most of the time on the ice. He's shown to be very good defnesively also. He reminds me of Z.

Fillpulla is the brightest of all those listed above, but he's not shown that he can be a star the way Zetterberg has. That has to come with time, so we'll wait and see. Of course being Wings fans, we don't want to wait too long.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I think that the reason people are so high on Franzen is that he's a lot bigger than our other forwards, and he played well in the playoffs last year. I still don't see him as a 2nd liner, let alone 1st liner, but since we didn't do much in the free agent pool, Franzen will be a top 6 forward this year. As for players being overhyped, I agree with you. Just look at Kopecky, Grigorenko, Kronwall , and Fillpulla, who are looked at by many Wings fans as future stars. Also, when Calder went ice cold in the playoffs last year, people seemed shocked, not realizing that he was cold all year in Philly which is why they got rid of him.

And then look at all the "Wings fans" that make blanket statements like these!!! Jesus, people have been bemoaning Kronwall and Kopecky ever since they made it into the lineup, and most people still expect Grigorenko to have a swing in the minors and then get minimum minutes. The only guy on that list that fits the bill is Filppula, who already proved he can cut it on the top line, play on the PK in the dying minutes of small leads, and has scored a few highlight reel goals.

As for Calder, hmm I wonder why people were shocked. Could it be that he was clipping along at nearly a point per game pace in his first 10 or so games with the Wings?