Sad state of affairs

[Yzerfan75 0]

When is the old bastard going to get it right and lower the damn ticket prices?

You think not selling out a single playoff game would wake Illitch up. Clearly it hasn't.

It's everywhere, though, man. We're opting not to buy our mini-plan to the Hurricanes this season for the first time in three or four years for the same reason. Well...that and they send out the flyers with like one weeks notice to come up with all the cash for a deposit. Does that happen with the Wings tickets, too?

I don't know about how it works at the Joe...but it seems to me that there is very little of a benefit to being even a mini-plan owner in the NHL anymore (woo-hoo....a whopping 10% at the inflated-prices arena store!!).

That saddens to know that Illitch is socking it to folks like this...I always figured he was somewhat on the side of Detroiters when it came to getting a decent experience for a decent price.

[OsGOD 3]

It's everywhere, though, man. We're opting not to buy our mini-plan to the Hurricanes this season for the first time in three or four years for the same reason. Well...that and they send out the flyers with like one weeks notice to come up with all the cash for a deposit. Does that happen with the Wings tickets, too?

I don't know about how it works at the Joe...but it seems to me that there is very little of a benefit to being even a mini-plan owner in the NHL anymore (woo-hoo....a whopping 10% at the inflated-prices arena store!!).

That saddens to know that Illitch is socking it to folks like this...I always figured he was somewhat on the side of Detroiters when it came to getting a decent experience for a decent price.

They have a few payment plans this season... but last season we had 1 week to come up with $4794 before they passed our tickets onto someone else.

This season we actually had 2 full weeks of the invoice in our hands... unfortuantly no buyers wanted a vast majority of our tickets.

I would like also ask, with your 'canes tickets did you get any price breaks (e.g. % off face value or discount on marking or such?)

Edited August 1, 2007 by OsGOD

[JayUp88 1]

I have always wanted Season tickets but i never really figured out how a normal person could spoon out that kind of money

[StevieY9802 6]

..but it wouldn't change the fact that there is less money to go around and more choices for sports fans these days.

This is wear I agree with you. Think about 2002 when tickets were still high but people were going. Why? Where else were you going to go? Pistons were down in the second round, which was the farthest they had been since 1991, the Lions don't play in the spring and the Tigers were already out of it. This year the Pistons went to round 3 for the 5th straight year and the Tigers were coming off a trip to the WS and the Wings over the previous few years hadn't done much in terms of playoff success. You're sports fans, not just hockey fans, will look at prices and say I would rather pay to see the Tigers than the Wings. For the price of one ticket to the WCF you could take 9 people to a Tigers game. If the prices were less people it might be different. And like it was mentioned, regular season tix aren't too bad it's the price much later in the playoffs that get crazy. I understand the ticket prices will go up because the demand goes up, but the demand with 2 other good teams playing at the same time, just isn't what it used to be.

I have always wanted Season tickets but i never really figured out how a normal person could spoon out that kind of money

I don't understand how people afford cheaper Tigers tickets, let alone other sports. I mean $15-20 are your ok seats upstairs at Copa and if you got all 81 home games? 2 tickets for half the home games at $15 is $1230.

[NC WINGS FAN 5]

I can agree that we do need more North American superstars on this team. It would not surprise me if this part of the reason for declining attendance. This seems to be a league wide problem as there are so many foreign born players fans cannot relate to. It's happening in the NBA as well. It seems like baseball is the only one that can get away with it simply because baseball has been in the American spotlight forever( it was once the most popular sport) and has no competition during the summer months.

[OsGOD 3]

Walk into Little Cesars and you will see discount coupons for Tigers games all summer long.... Oddly (owned by the same people) Red Wings fans are too shunned to even understand what the word Discount and Tickets together in a sentence would actually mean.

Edited August 1, 2007 by OsGOD

[chrisdetroit 189]

Although most wont agree, the prices and economy is only partially to blame. Alot of it has to do with the team as well as the product...at this point people just arent going flock to the arena to see guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk like they would Yzerman, Shanny, and even someone like McCarty. These guys were superstars in this city and people felt like they could identify with them. Theres really not that star factor here anymore, ...and please dont go bringing up Datsyuk's points or some crap. Im not talking about star in terms of just being a high scorer, Im talking about star in terms of being beloved by the fans.

Agreed but it is also an anti-European issue. People don't identify with the Europeans. Note that the names you mentioned- Yzerman, Shanahan and McCarty are all from North America. How many Canadians/American big names do we have?

None. Except maybe Chelios. Our bigest stars are Lidstrom, Zetterburg, Datsyuk, Hasek. Every one is European. Rafalski is too new and not realy a "big" name.

People were really excited when we got Bertuzzi - a big name and also Canadian.

The anti-European bias is IMO a big part of the problem.

[OsGOD 3]

Also add that the TEAM doesn't really do many things to initiate any type of feelings for them other than playing puck.

The Red Wings as an org are so "Hands off" to the fans that is it not even funny.

Mr. I has taken any fan interaction with the team and tossed it out the window the longer and longer our playoff streak happened.

how can you care passionantly for something you never get to have any interaction with other than watching them do their job.

In the 90's players were doing autograph sessions left and right.... fan fests were happening at the joe to get the fans excited about the upcoming season...

Training Camp is really the ONLY thing the team does that is fan friendly anymore and that is a good 6 hours from the suburbs of Detroit....

All we get now is "HEY DETROIT... GUESS WHAT? BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL SO SPECIAL TO US WE HAVE DECIDED TO FREEZE TICKET PRICES YET AGAIN!!!!!" oh yeah and, "KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON OUR SITE FOR WHEN OUR OVERPRICED TICKETS GO ON SALE"

Edited August 1, 2007 by OsGOD

[johnnyoski 0]

So I was hopeful this season that the Wings would offer more than a measly 2% discount to season ticket holders that paid off their balance up front. For a $4800 balance that doesn't even amount to 1 pair of tickets!!! That and you still have to pay full price for the exhibition garbage.

Add my two seats to the pile of season ticket holders that are NOT renewing. I'll still support the team and buy tickets for 3-5 games this year but its impossible for us common folk to remain season ticket holders.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Also add that the TEAM doesn't really do many things to initiate any type of feelings for them other than playing puck.

The Red Wings as an org are so "Hands off" to the fans that is it not even funny.

Mr. I has taken any fan interaction with the team and tossed it out the window the longer and longer our playoff streak happened.

how can you care passionantly for something you never get to have any interaction with other than watching them do their job.

In the 90's players were doing autograph sessions left and right.... fan fests were happening at the joe to get the fans excited about the upcoming season...

Training Camp is really the ONLY thing the team does that is fan friendly anymore and that is a good 6 hours from the suburbs of Detroit....

All we get now is "HEY DETROIT... GUESS WHAT? BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL SO SPECIAL TO US WE HAVE DECIDED TO FREEZE TICKET PRICES YET AGAIN!!!!!" oh yeah and, "KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON OUR SITE FOR WHEN OUR OVERPRICED TICKETS GO ON SALE"

Unfourantly, the only thing that will get that to change is either new ownership, or the Wings missing the playoffs completely.

If the Wings did miss the playoffs, that take a massive hit on the teams part as far as popularity in the city of Detroit. That also comes with the success of the Tigers and Pistons. I really feel that would be the only thing that would ever get Illitch to actually care about the fans again. Not that I want it to come to that (missing the playoffs), because I don't. It would be the only thing to do it though.

It does also come with the already mentioned point: the Wings don't have the type of players that will draw crowds. You all think people like me are ridiculous when we want fighters on the team, but if you want to draw a crowd, you need a fighter. Not a 5'10 Swede who hasn't fought a guy in his life.

But, whatever. As long as Ken Holland is GM and Mike Illitch is owner, it'll be the same thing over and over again. Holland will continue to build boring European based teams, while Illitch screws us all over with ridiculous ticket prices.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Echolalia 2,961]

I can't believe all this nonsense I'm reading about our European based team thats the cause of poor ticket sales... The argument apparently is that us as fans can identify with the likes of Yzerman, Shannahan, and McCarty because they're based in a North American country, and thus, ticket sales were better the past 10 years than they are now.

I can't say that I agree with that in the least.

First of all, the past 10 years were our glory years and the entire nhl was predicting that we would run away with the cup more than half the time, and it wasn't because our team was easy to relate to. It was because we were good as hell. Yzerman, Shannahan, Federov, Kozlov, Larionov, Konstantinov, Fetisov, Draper, Maltby, Lidstrom, etc etc etc. In addition to that, all the other Detroit teams were doing terrible, so its not like there was a high demand for ticket prices anywhere else. But now that the Wings have been a powerhouse for 10+ years, its getting old and unfortunately expected for us to be the best every year. On the other hand, Detroit is seeing teams like the Pistons and the Tigers begin to have successful streaks, and quite frankly people are more willing to spend their money on watching a new Detroit team begin their years as a championship team rather then a team that we're quite used to winning anyway. To make matters worse our economy is terrible, especially in the Detroit region, so theres a very limited amount of money to spend on recreational events, and, keeping in mind what I just said about new teams coming to power and how exciting that is, they're tickets are also way cheaper than Wings' tickets, so its little question where the best value for the average sports' fan's dollar will be.

The media problem also isn't helping the Wings' situation. Hockey in general is being portrayed as a washed up sport with nothing left to give. Yes theres alot of fans (like us) who know thats bulls***, but theres also alot of people out there who listen to what the media says.

Trust me, if the situations were similar to what they were in the late 90's and the Wings won the cup 3 times within the next 6 years, Dats and Zetterberg and Lidstrom and all them will be looked at with just as much popularity as Shanny and Federov and whoever else people idolized for winning. McCarty was popular for being a hard-ass and beating the s*** out of Lemieux, not for being a Canadian, and if it honestly is about where your born and where you grew up, then why isn't Chelios as popular as Shanny, or Dmac, or Rafalski even: he was born in Michigan.

Yes, it is easier to understand their jokes when they have interviews, but it makes little difference determining how many people show up for the games.

[Barrie 900]

Although most wont agree, the prices and economy is only partially to blame. Alot of it has to do with the team as well as the product...at this point people just arent going flock to the arena to see guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk like they would Yzerman, Shanny, and even someone like McCarty. These guys were superstars in this city and people felt like they could identify with them. Theres really not that star factor here anymore, ...and please dont go bringing up Datsyuk's points or some crap. Im not talking about star in terms of just being a high scorer, Im talking about star in terms of being beloved by the fans.

Yup, count me as one of those type of fans who still loves the Wings, but isn't rushing out to buy tickets with Yzerman, Shanny, DMac, etc. gone, and Maltby and Draper not in their prime anymore. Also, I think the game has got to soft, I'm sick of Gary Bettman, and Hockey isn't the only sport I follow.

[Kp-Wings 3]

big long post

There's a difference you don't understand.

If Holland signed entertaining European players, like Ville Nieminen, Evgeny Artyukin, or Jarkko Ruutu, then it would be a different story. These guys have charecter. And for as much as Nieminen does dirty stuff, he is entertaining to watch with the stuff he does.

Vladdy was a European, but he was loved by fans, because he had charecter, and he was a gritty player. That's what the fans want, whether it be a North American or European. They want players that entertain them, and players that they can stand by.

Holland signs the most boring players you can possible imagine. Guys like Samulesson, Kopecky, etc. These guys have no personality, bring nothing to the game at all, and for as big as they are, aren't gritty at all. They just hapeen to be European.

The Wings have had North American players that define the epitome of boring also. Jason Williams for example. Maybe even Brett Lebda can fall into that catagory.

It's not just because their European. Holland happens to sign the most boring players on the market, which, I hate to break it to you, aren't going to draw fans.

By the way: I edited your post to save room.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Echolalia 2,961]

moderatly sized post

I don't know about you but I find Datsyuk and Zetterbergs insane plays pretty entertaining, as well as Hasek's unorthodox style of goaltending, and Holmstrom's amazing abilities in front of the net. And when were in the Western Conference Finals fighting for a chance to get within 4 wins of the cup, I'm entertained. What you seem to be referring to is either their camera personality or their overt physicality or ability to get under someone's skin on the ice, or a combination of the two. (Forgive me for assuming what your definition of 'personality' is, and, of course if I am mistaken in my assumption, please be sure to tell me how you define 'personality' in the context that we're using it in). The latter is an issue that this board has been discussing for a while now, and can be answered more or less in the form of an enforcer. Bertuzzi, Drake, McCarty, whoever you like. But if we're talking about a good ol' fashioned physical presence on the ice (which I will not deny will help bring tickets in), that has nothing to do with said person being a North American, or even someone people can relate to. Its simply someone who can piss people off and beat the s*** out of them afterward.

And if we're talking about how good said players can take interviews, then I will continue to disagree with this board in that it cannot help ticket sales. Interviews aren't even displayed at games. Yes its good for a chuckle or two when you're at home drinking with your friends, but I'm not going to base whether I spend 82 dollars on a ticket on a hockey player's off ice personality.

Kp-wings, you talked about Holland just signing boring players (I'll assume you just forgot about Dats, Z, Hasek and so forth), but the rest of the board (see first page of this discussion) is dead set on said "miracle-player-who-can-save-ticket- sales-singlehandedly" being a North American, and that is what I was arguing. Well, that and the fact that there are a plethora of other more realistic reasons why the Joe isn't selling out anymore.

by the way: its sweet that you quoted me in your sig

Edited August 1, 2007 by Echolalia

[Kp-Wings 3]

Echolalia:

Yes, I do find Zetterberg and Datsyuk's play entertaining, but that's a different story.

I'm mostly going off of 3rd/4th line players. The Wings need and should have more entertaining players then what they currently have their in that part. Someone like Arron Asham or Adam Hall, or even Nieminen, will make just as much money as someone like Samulesson, so why not sign them? At least guys like Asham or Hall will fight, or in Nieminen's case, play dirty. That's what most fans find entertaining, especially the fighting aspect.

The Wings have no one on their current roster that will drop the gloves on a regular basis. The Wings had about 10 fights last year, 6-7 of them coming from Brad Norton. The other 3-4 came from one-time wonders like Lilja, who I'll bet will probably never do it again.

Fighting is going to put fans in the seats. Some try to deny it, and others even go out of there way to say the Wings don't need a fighter, which I think is ridiculous.

A fighter isn't going to solve the Wings attendance issues, nor will it solve the team toughness issues. But it can only help, can't it?

...and please, nobody discredit this with Brad Norton as your example. He's a career AHL'er at best. You can't compare the good fighters in the league to Norton.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I think that popularity has more to do with casual Wings fans rather than hardcore fans. The true fans will go to games no matter who the players are or what kind of interviews they give. For casual fans, yes some players have more charisma on and off the ice than others, but the NHL as a whole has trouble marketing its stars. It's not fair to blame the Wings for signing so called "boring players" when the whole country seems to think that hockey is more boring than baseball. Exactly which team in the NHL has an exciting roster full of eccentric personalities? I can't think of any right now.

[redwing711 0]

Absolutely, and I see your point. I don't think it's a lack of stardom though, with the exception of Federov who had a national Nike commercial or two, outside of Detroit we have never had a superstar. Right now we have the best defensemen in the league and if you asked 100 people in say Florida who he was they wouldn't have a clue. The problem is that we have two other successful teams in the city right now and only so many dollars to go around. During the Wings glory days our other 3 teams were laughable. There is really only one Hockey player in the league right now you could say is a superstar in the same sense as Tiger Woods or Peyton Manning or Labron James.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are two of the best forwards in the game right now, certainly in the top 20 if not the top 10 and I don't think having Marian Hossa, Ryan Smyth, Joe Thorton, or even Oveckin would make a difference, only Sid the Kid could bring people to a rink that didn't already like Hockey

Sorry, have to disagree with you there. If they don't like hockey, they have no idea who Sid is.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

It's obviously a combination of a lot of factors, but I think team personality is definitely one of them.

Over the last several years, the Red Wings organization didn't have to do much to reach out to fans because they were still coasting on the Cup wins and personality of guys like Mac, Shanny, and Stevie.

This was a major turnover year for the Wings. I remember reading a Buccigross playoff prediction, and he said the Wings were talented but not that easy to root for because they have no personality. I was annoyed at first, but realized he was right.

This playoffs they helped forge an identity, but they're still not a very distinct, identifiable team.

It's not surprising that the Red Wings had to make a renewed effort to reach out to fans.

[Zion 93]

I understand the poor economy, but I blame Detroit corporations for buying tickets and then just not ******* going to the games.

I want a list of companies with significant season-ticket purchases so I, rather WE, can write them and give them a piece of our minds.

It is unacceptable that "Hockeytown" can't even sell out its own building.

[BlakChamber 8]

I understand the poor economy, but I blame Detroit corporations for buying tickets and then just not ******* going to the games.

I want a list of companies with significant season-ticket purchases so I, rather WE, can write them and give them a piece of our minds.

It is unacceptable that "Hockeytown" can't even sell out its own building.

How are you going to figure out which companies used the tickets and which ones didn't? And if you honestly wrote to companies and complained about them not using their seats (assuming you figured out which ones weren't) that would just be sad. Besides, the Wings sold out every game in the regular season.

And as I said earlier in this thread, it's interesting that so many people ***** about the suits buying up the tickets, but when OsGod offers season tickets at below face value, there's no takers.

[Opie 308]

Hey if I lived anywhere near the D I would make Osgod my new best friend!!!!

[Barrie 900]

How are you going to figure out which companies used the tickets and which ones didn't? And if you honestly wrote to companies and complained about them not using their seats (assuming you figured out which ones weren't) that would just be sad. Besides, the Wings sold out every game in the regular season.

And as I said earlier in this thread, it's interesting that so many people ***** about the suits buying up the tickets, but when OsGod offers season tickets at below face value, there's no takers.

Yeah I agree. If the tickets are sold, I don't see what the big deal is if the tickets get used or not. It's paid for, that's the main thing.

People can't make all 41 Home games, life gets in the way. Besides, I'm sure sometimes it's not worth it to drive downtown for a Thursday night game vs. Columbus or Minnesota.