Rumor: Ducks won't match offer for Penner

[Opie 308]

I think he meant the GM's are idiots not you, if they let their RFA go that long.

[Dominator2005 558]

where is there a rule that says a team can only offer so much money, hell if they need to overpay, they can do it. Its their choice, Burke can whine all he wants, hes still a baby

What was your reaction when Carolina signed Fedorov to offer sheet???

Tell you what. Let's look at this contract in 3 years. If in 3 years, Penner is putting up Smyth or Bertuzzi (in his good years) type numbers, then you get to eat your words. If he flops and drops below the 20-goal mark, I'll eat my words.

When you're trying for an RFA, of course you overpay. Don't overpay, and the other team matches your offer without blinking. Burke set himself up for this; he's got no one to blame but Brian Burke.

Why didn't he sign Smyth last season? Because Smyth wanted more money than Kevin Lowe felt he was worth. The better question is why he didn't sign after the Cup run, when everyone else was getting contracts, but that's neither here nor there. And calling tihs a 'desperation move' is just the latest phrase du jour. Kevin Lowe felt this was the best way to make his team better, so he took it. Got a problem with it? Sign your RFAs earlier, then. No sympathy for Burke here.

And replaced? Two of the last three season Kevin Lowe has done a good job as GM. I'd say wait until we see where the Oilers finish this year before proclaiming him dead and gone.

$150 000 / season diference what they offered and what Smyth wanted... Lowe sent great message to Oilers fans...

[Opie 308]

I know you weren't asking me but since I am a supporter of the offer sheet:

I can say that I was upset, However, I was upset in a "that is going to suck" kind of way not a "that is BS he shouldn't do that, it is gutless" ala Burke.

[Dabura 12,207]

(Psst, Kenny. Trade deadline. *cough*)

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

What was your reaction when Carolina signed Fedorov to offer sheet???

What does it matter anyway? That's the business of hockey and it's a legal thing to do. If a team cares enough about one of their RFA's then they'd be smart enough to lock 'em up so no other team can go after him.

I don't see why a GM should be knocked for this.

[Dominator2005 558]

I know you weren't asking me but since I am a supporter of the offer sheet:

I can say that I was upset, However, I was upset in a "that is going to suck" kind of way not a "that is BS he shouldn't do that, it is gutless" ala Burke.

I know what you are talking about - I don't like Burke but Lowe is equal ******* to Burke...

What does it matter anyway? That's the business of hockey and it's a legal thing to do. If a team cares enough about one of their RFA's then they'd be smart enough to lock 'em up so no other team can go after him.

I don't see why a GM should be knocked for this.

Why:

1. Trading Pronger for Lupul

2. Trading Lupul & Gator for Pitkanen & Sanderson

3. Trading Smyth for NOTHING

4. Signing Sourray for horrible contract $6M

[Opie 308]

Dom,

I see your point with Smyth, that was stupid to just let him go (especially what he meant to that team and the city) it would be like the wings letting Yzerman go over 50k (inflation and pay increase).

Not stat wise or that they are the same player, but Smyth was starting to become that team and that city's Steve Yzerman.

On the Penner thing, honestly if Bert with his back and issues is worth 4m why not Penner it is just as big of a risk. The only difference is Penner is younger, has a better ability to recover from injuries (youth factor, young bastards), and doesn't have a lot of baggage. Overpaid, sure, but tell me an athlete that isn't.

Look at the busts that have happened with UFA's, Hatcher, Floppa (due to injury not performance) and others.

I think in 5 years people will not remember how the Oil got Penner because it will be common practice.

There won't be a "Holy crap, that Penner guy, he is the one Lowe got for an offer letter."

I wish Ken Holland had the balls to be the first to do it. But then again he could be a bust at 4.3 mil and then the GM will look like a fool.

It is so damn hard to judge how good some one will be. I would have thought Datsyuk would be 4 times the player Zetterberg is. However, and this is not a shot at Dats he is great, but Z is definitely proving to be the better all around guy.

And didn't Burke technically do the same thing with Bert, that Lowe did with Penner. He knew the wings were really the only team showing him interest and gave him an overpaid contract to keep the wings from matching. The process is really the same, the difference is in the title of the player, UFA vs RFA.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Opie

[Hemmers 0]

I know what you are talking about - I don't like Burke but Lowe is equal ******* to Burke...

Why:

1. Trading Pronger for Lupul

2. Trading Lupul & Gator for Pitkanen & Sanderson

3. Trading Smyth for NOTHING

4. Signing Sourray for horrible contract $6M

1) Pronger for Lupul, Smid (who looks to be evolving into a very solid 3/4 d-man at the very least), and a plethora of picks. Let's at least be honest, otherwise you may be accused of strawman'ing.

2) Lupul and Smith - One a player who didn't look like he was going to flourish in Edmonton, one an aging defenceman on the downhill slope for one of the best young defencemen in the game and an aging winger who's on the downhill slope.. tell me what's bad about this.

3) Trading Smyth for Nilsson, O'Mara (who is another big power-forward type who looks like he'll turn out well) and a draft pick is hardly NOTHING. Again, at least be honest if you want to be taken seriously. Nilsson looks like he'll be a legitimate scorer soon and O'Mara looks like a good 3rd-liner. This for about 20 games of Ryan Smyth, gee, what a bad deal.

4) Your opinion. I'm of the opinion that since every single defenceman with a bad +/- has improved dramatically upon coming to Edmonton, Souray will turn out to be a much better player than people are giving him credit for. But hey, this one you at least based partially in fact, so well done.

Anything else? If you're going to try and debate, at least be accurate.

[Henkka 0]

Hahaha for Burke, he just f***ed himself signing that god damn Bertuzzi.

I'd take Penner at anyday comparing to Bert for the same price.

[jaymcfly 0]

penner may be worth the gamble from a money standpoint (especially considering the 4mil they dropped on bert) but for the ducks it was much more than just one player and one large salary. they have to sign up perry and getzlaf next year who are both younger than penner and arguably more talented (penner did have more points than perry this year though). also they have to resign kunitz next year as well. all three of them are potentially core players and will be looking at pretty big raises. all three of them would certainly like to use penner's salary as a reference so the ducks can't show that they're willing to pay that. no win for the ducks.

Edited August 2, 2007 by jaymcfly

[arnoldbuck 0]

How much room do the Ducks have under the cap? If Selanne decides to come back, is there room for that. Or Neids for that matter? I guess, those two may have had something to do with Burke denying that amount.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

How much room do the Ducks have under the cap? If Selanne decides to come back, is there room for that. Or Neids for that matter? I guess, those two may have had something to do with Burke denying that amount.

They have 48.25 WITH Niedermayer on the roster and 11 Forwards. Unless Selanne is willing to play for only 2M and Burke wants to have ZERO cap space left, then Selanne could be an option. If Scott, doesnt come back, then theyve got 42M, and theyd only have 6 Dmen signed, and 11 forwards.

The interesting thing is, Anaheim ownership didnt want Burke to spend over 42M in the first place, so Itll be interesting to see if Burke's hands are tied and all he can do is sign a depth Dman to replace Niedermayer if he doesnt come back and a depth forward to replace Penner/Selanne.

At this point, it wouldnt be shocking to see Burke forced into a position where he has to bring up Ryan AND sign one of the low-stock UFA Dmen left.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Just saw this on HFBoards.....Per TEAM 1040 in Vancouver:

99.9% Chance Scott Niedermayer is retiring

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Pronger - 6,250,000

Niedermayer - 6,750,000

Schneider- 5,500,000

This is what cost them Dustin Penner. I dont know why everyone continues to make this a Bertuzzi issue. The overload of money is on Defense. Its simple really...

Bertuzzi - IN

Selanne - OUT

Schneider- IN

Niedermayer - ? (was thought to be an OUT... now theyre probably 4 million overspent on D. What do ya know...Penner signed for just over 4)

Just saw this on HFBoards.....Per TEAM 1040 in Vancouver:

99.9% Chance Scott Niedermayer is retiring

If thats true, im quite surprised the Penner offer wasnt matched.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i was hopin they would sign him...i mean that way they overpay another player =D

[chrisdetroit 189]

Really, I doubt that'll happen. Penner and Joffrey Lupul have two totally different personalities. Penner plays with a lot of grit and energy. Lupul just floats around the ice lazily until the puck comes to him (Remind you of someone?).

Although overpaid, that's what Edmonton had to do to get Penner. When looking at the potential Penner still has, it's really a good deal for them.

It's a really good deal for them? You're kidding right? The guy was a rookie last year. $4.3 million plus 3 draft picks for somebody that has a track record of 1 year. No thanks.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Pronger - 6,250,000

Niedermayer - 6,750,000

Schneider- 5,500,000

This is what cost them Dustin Penner. I dont know why everyone continues to make this a Bertuzzi issue. The overload of money is on Defense. Its simple really...

Bertuzzi - IN

Selanne - OUT

Schneider- IN

Niedermayer - ? (was thought to be an OUT... now theyre probably 4 million overspent on D. What do ya know...Penner signed for just over 4)

If thats true, im quite surprised the Penner offer wasnt matched.

Please. This is Burke were talking about. I wouldnt be surprised if Burke told Niedermayer to keep tight-lipped about his retirement decision in order to attract more UFA players, knowing full well that Niedermayer was going to retire even before the UFA season started. It is curious to begin with that he was rumored to be leaning towards retirement, then comes right out and says hes going to retire, and then all of a sudden takes it back. Bulls***, if you ask me. Everyone knows that the combination of Niedermayer and Pronger - 2 of the best 3 Dmen in the league - makes that team go. And after Niedermayer won the Conne Smythe, hes name is now inextricably tied to Stanley Cups. I dont care if Pronger and Jiggy are still there, boasting of having Niedermayer captaining that team is an amazing draw for Burke.

..And, secondly, do you honestly think that Burke would go right after Schneider on DAY ONE of free agency if he didnt know Niedermayer was retiring?? Schneider was the FIRST top-tier UFA Dman to be signed. Its not like Rafalski and Hamrlik started getting snapped up and Burke panicked and went after Schneider...And if he were going to make an insurance signing, theres no way it wouldve been one of the most expensive Dman signings of the summer, which is exactly what Schneider was.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I'm not convinced this really hurts the Ducks all that much, if at all. It probably helps them in the future more than anything else. Dustin Penner is not worth four million dollars. Take the additional cap space, plus the three draft picks and move on. Penner has the potential to be pretty solid, but overpaying for him now would be a mistake.

With the reports that Niedermayer is almost certain to retire, it really opens the door for Selanne to come back for another season. Not including Selanne's possible contract, the Ducks would be right around the 42 million dollar level that ownership wants. This also gives the Ducks plenty of cap space to re-sign some combination of Getlzaf, Perry, and Kunitz next year. At this point, I would take all three of those guys over Penner. Signing Penner to that contract would have pretty much ruled out any return from Selanne, and also really hindered the future for the Ducks as well.

I hate Brian Burke just as much as everyone else, but the Ducks are in fine position to be very strong next season. I don't blame Burke one bit for signing Schneider and Bertuzzi when he did. If he doesn't do that, and Selanne and Niedermayer retire as expected, then who fills that void? It's not Burke's personal vendetta to spite the Red Wings and Ken Holland. He was looking out for the best interests of his team. Sure, Burke overpaid for both players, but it's better than waiting and being left with nothing. Bertuzzi and Schneider are not the same calibre as Selanne and Niedermayer, or even Penner, but it was the best Burke could do to "replace" those guys.

Letting Penner go will not ruin the Ducks like everyone hopes. In fact, it will probably benefit them in the future. Like it or not, Brian Burke made the right move here. The Western Conference still goes through Anaheim.

Edited August 2, 2007 by GoWings1905

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I'm not convinced this really hurts the Ducks all that much, if at all. It probably helps them in the future more than anything else. Dustin Penner is not worth four million dollars. Take the additional cap space, plus the three draft picks and move on. Penner has the potential to be pretty solid, but overpaying for him now would be a mistake.

With the reports that Niedermayer is almost certain to retire, it really opens the door for Selanne to come back for another season. Not including Selanne's possible contract, the Ducks would be right around the 42 million dollar level that ownership wants. This also gives the Ducks plenty of cap space to re-sign some combination of Getlzaf, Perry, and Kunitz next year. At this point, I would take all three of those guys over Penner. Signing Penner to that contract would have pretty much ruled out any return from Selanne, and also really hindered the future for the Ducks as well.

I hate Brian Burke just as much as everyone else, but the Ducks are in fine position to be very strong next season. I don't blame Burke one bit for signing Schneider and Bertuzzi when he did. If he doesn't do that, and Selanne and Niedermayer retire as expected, then who fills that void? It's not Burke's personal vendetta to spite the Red Wings and Ken Holland. He was looking out for the best interests of his team. Sure, Burke overpaid for both players, but it's better than waiting and being left with nothing. Bertuzzi and Schneider are not the same calibre as Selanne and Niedermayer, or even Penner, but it was the best Burke could do to "replace" those guys.

Letting Penner go will not ruin the Ducks like everyone hopes. In fact, it will probably benefit them in the future. Like it or not, Brian Burke made the right move here. The Western Conference still goes through Anaheim.

...and yet you are completely missing the point. Brian Burke has only had the "Penner for 4M or no Penner at all" ultimatum on his plate for 7 days. Burke could have had Penner....AND it wouldnt have cost him 4.3M. Offer sheets are intrinsically overpaying.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

AH! Good to be back posting.

I think this is , as much as I hate to say, a good deal for the Oil. They needed a gritty forward who scores goals , they wont be terrible this season.

As for Anaheim , there fine. If Selanne and Niedermayer dont retire , there golden. If they do , they wont be terrible still 2nd or 3rd in the conference.

Cant wait to hear Burkie whining about this one

[Kp-Wings 3]

It's a really good deal for them? You're kidding right? The guy was a rookie last year. $4.3 million plus 3 draft picks for somebody that has a track record of 1 year. No thanks.

Here's my reasoning:

1. Penner is one of the best young forwards in the game right now. Compare him to Joffery Lupul all you want, he's way different. Penner plays with a lot of grit and passion in his game, and for being 6'4, is a very good skater. He has a ton of untapped potential, and probably more than anyone on the current Oilers team next to Joni Pitkanen.

2. Edmonton never drafts well, at least in the 1st round anyways. Giving up 1st round picks means nothing to them in my opinion. Plus, they can afford to give up so lower round picks also, because they got two young forwards coming in from the Smyth trade (Nilsson and O'Marra).

3. Edmonton has a very meek offense right now. Penner scored 29 goals last year. He comes in as one of the top scorers on that team.

There are certain things to look at other than just the dollars on his contract. Yes, he is overpaid right now. A few years down the line he won't be though.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Here's my reasoning:

1. Penner is one of the best young forwards in the game right now. Compare him to Joffery Lupul all you want, he's way different. Penner plays with a lot of grit and passion in his game, and for being 6'4, is a very good skater. He has a ton of untapped potential, and probably more than anyone on the current Oilers team next to Joni Pitkanen.

2. Edmonton never drafts well, at least in the 1st round anyways. Giving up 1st round picks means nothing to them in my opinion. Plus, they can afford to give up so lower round picks also, because they got two young forwards coming in from the Smyth trade (Nilsson and O'Marra).

3. Edmonton has a very meek offense right now. Penner scored 29 goals last year. He comes in as one of the top scorers on that team.

There are certain things to look at other than just the dollars on his contract. Yes, he is overpaid right now. A few years down the line he won't be though.

I agree. Smart for Oilers, smart for Ducks to decline.

BTW, I know that the sig is a quote, but could you please spell "Federov" correctly?

[sverige 0]

Lowe and Penner Conference Call

Burke's Reaction

Sorry in advance if these have already been posted. Burke doesn't like it because he says Penner's not worth that much money (very true), but how else are you supposed to get RFA's if the salaries aren't inflated? Lowe had to offer that much or Burke would have matched.

[Kp-Wings 3]

BTW, I know that the sig is a quote, but could you please spell "Federov" correctly?

Hah, never noticed that. That would be the fault of the person I quoted though, not mine.

Yeah, sure, I'll fix it.

[Roberto Who? 0]

Really, I doubt that'll happen. Penner and Joffrey Lupul have two totally different personalities. Penner plays with a lot of grit and energy. Lupul just floats around the ice lazily until the puck comes to him (Remind you of someone?).

Although overpaid, that's what Edmonton had to do to get Penner. When looking at the potential Penner still has, it's really a good deal for them.

ur a bit wrong there KP...sometime this past season penner was benched for being lazy, he needs to learn how to use his size....trust me he is gonna be another lupul, no doubt about it...no perry no getzlaf, no 90 degree weather....he could have reached his potential here but whatever, im not worried bout losing him....cant wait ill we play them now...