Burke's gaff

[Andy Pred 48 337]

So after all the dust has settled, the Ducks GM finds himself minus one of the most promising power forwards in the

league. Has this been a major blunder by him? After signing Bert for the 2 year $4m deal, maybe he saw this coming.

After all if Niedermayer plays on, Burke would have to have moved someone anyway. Did he see losing Penner less

damaging than having to let Getzlaf or Perry go? If Bert becomes a bust this year then maybe Burke has made the biggest blunder of the year. I was tauting Penner 2 years ago, and there was talk at the time that the Wings were taking a look at the big winger. Bert brings a wealth of experience to any line up, but he does have that ? about his

health. Penner has bags of potential and dare I say could be the premier power forward in the league within the next year or so. It will be very interesting to watch how they get on this year. I think the move could well benefit Penner as he may find himself on the Oilers 2nd line and play a more promenent role for the Edmonton side. If Bert does stay healthy then he can't really miss on the powerful Ducks side. He should rack up 60-70 points for them at least, could

Penner have done the same? Well thats never going to get answered now, but I'm sure Mr Burke is crossing his fingers

that Bert holds up all year and that his star studded Ducks don't let him down.

[arnoldbuck 0]

I think it is def more important to ensure Getzlaf remains a duck. And Burke knows that. Obviously he'd rather have everyone on his roster remain in tacked, ... gives him the best shot to repeat. But with way the Salary cap works, at some point, you are going to have to pick and choose.

[Gordie Howe hat trick 110]

Still if I were in his shoes, I would rather see Penner stay than bring in Bert. It is true I would have wanted to see Bert stay a Wing, and you may think that I am sore for losing him but, if the choice is between the two I say you go with youth. Let alone promising youth.

[Legionnaire11 0]

I think that you have to take the picks. I don't see how buffalo signed Vanek for such a huge number, they should have taken the picks.

Anaheim already has a young core of great talent. Next summer they'll re-stock their farm system with high picks. They're still a really good team, and now they'll have a ton of assets in their pocket to either develop or trade. Either way, they're getting a lot in return for Penner, too much IMO.

Lowe on the other hand has overpaid for his guy, yes he brings 29 goals, but only 15 assists. And that was on a cup championship team. What is he going to do on the Oilers? PLUS he loses 3 draft picks next summer. Rounds 1-3. When has a player of Penner's ability ever been worth those kind of picks?

No, Burke made the right decision. It's really the only decision you could logically make.

[2probert4 8]

I think that you have to take the picks. I don't see how buffalo signed Vanek for such a huge number, they should have taken the picks.

Anaheim already has a young core of great talent. Next summer they'll re-stock their farm system with high picks. They're still a really good team, and now they'll have a ton of assets in their pocket to either develop or trade. Either way, they're getting a lot in return for Penner, too much IMO.

Lowe on the other hand has overpaid for his guy, yes he brings 29 goals, but only 15 assists. And that was on a cup championship team. What is he going to do on the Oilers? PLUS he loses 3 draft picks next summer. Rounds 1-3. When has a player of Penner's ability ever been worth those kind of picks?

No, Burke made the right decision. It's really the only decision you could logically make.

I have to disagree, you should sign your young RFA's first before going to raid other peoples talent. I would take Penner right now over Bertuzzi. Penner wouldn't have cost him what Edmonton is paying him. Burke is already trying to TRADE that #1 that he just received. You take care of business at home before going to raid other teams talent, which is what he did in Bertuzzi and Schneider. He still doesn't know what Selanne and Neids are doing , this one is a botched effort by Burke, who in my opinion, is a very overrated GM. Look at his past track record before someone starts flaming me.

[Zion 93]

He won the Cup.

End of story.

[2probert4 8]

He won the Cup.

End of story.

Anaheim won the Cup, he walked in on what Bryan Murray built.

[eva unit zero 271]

He won the Cup.

End of story.

Hmm....Scott Niedermayer, the Conn Smythe winner, had already decided to go to Anaheim BEFORE BURKE WAS THERE. Teemu Selanne had already decided he wanted to return to Anaheim, independent of Burke. Giguere, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, McDonald, Pahlsson, R.Niedermayer, Moen were all either on the team or at the very least in the organization. Basically, Burke swapped out Sergei Fedorov, Joffrey Lupul, and Ladislav Smid for Todd Marchant, Chris Pronger, and Francois Beauchemin. That's an overall loss of talent in that swap.

[Primis 0]

It's much more likely Lowe's gaffe will haunt him. Because even if Penner turns into a pretty good, solid player for the Oilers, those 3 picks could yield more good players, or a better player even than Penner. And since the OIlers aren't probably going to be very good again this next year, their 1st Rounder wil be a pretty good pick.

Or to be a little more blunt -- Penner is just way overhyped to begin with and I'd be very surprised if he is even able to replicate this past season in any team situation.

Burke's comfortable with the picks, and he should be.

-- Primis.

[CenterIce 83]

No, Burke made the right decision. It's really the only decision you could logically make.

Agreed. It is hard to repeat as a Stanley Cup champion. He loses one young player, but they have ohers. He picks up 3 high round draft picks, which they can either use or package in a deal.

Basically, Burke swapped out Sergei Fedorov, Joffrey Lupul, and Ladislav Smid for Todd Marchant, Chris Pronger, and Francois Beauchemin. That's an overall loss of talent in that swap.

Fedorov had a horrible contract for the salary cap era, and the additions of Pronger and Beauchemin gave Anaheim a solid defense. Even if "overall talent" was decreased, the moves were effective. Talent doesn't guarantee anything.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Hmm....Scott Niedermayer, the Conn Smythe winner, had already decided to go to Anaheim BEFORE BURKE WAS THERE. Teemu Selanne had already decided he wanted to return to Anaheim, independent of Burke. Giguere, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, McDonald, Pahlsson, R.Niedermayer, Moen were all either on the team or at the very least in the organization. Basically, Burke swapped out Sergei Fedorov, Joffrey Lupul, and Ladislav Smid for Todd Marchant, Chris Pronger, and Francois Beauchemin. That's an overall loss of talent in that swap.

Let's see the Ducks won the cup by beating the hapless Minnesota Wild and the ofense challenged Canucks then barely got past the wings. The following summer they lose their best D-man in Neidemeir, their best forward in Selanne and their best young prospect in Penner.

Add them to the scrap heap of 1 year wonders with Carolina and Tampa. The only burning question is will they even make the playoffs and if so how are they going to do it without Neidemeir, Selanne or Penner. With over the hill Schneider and bad back Bert? I think not.

I love it! What a great summer when both Nashville and the Ducks teams implode at the same time!

I think it is def more important to ensure Getzlaf remains a duck. And Burke knows that. Obviously he'd rather have everyone on his roster remain in tacked, ... gives him the best shot to repeat. But with way the Salary cap works, at some point, you are going to have to pick and choose.

in tacked? I love it. It's intact. ROFLMAO

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Hmm....Scott Niedermayer, the Conn Smythe winner, had already decided to go to Anaheim BEFORE BURKE WAS THERE. Teemu Selanne had already decided he wanted to return to Anaheim, independent of Burke. Giguere, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, McDonald, Pahlsson, R.Niedermayer, Moen were all either on the team or at the very least in the organization. Basically, Burke swapped out Sergei Fedorov, Joffrey Lupul, and Ladislav Smid for Todd Marchant, Chris Pronger, and Francois Beauchemin. That's an overall loss of talent in that swap.

That is absolutely nuts! Pronger's talent speaks for itself, and Beachemin is a very underrated, good defenseman...as well as a key ingredient to winning the Cup. If you actually believe what you're saying here...christ, i dont know what to say.

[Heaton 1]

I think that you have to take the picks. I don't see how buffalo signed Vanek for such a huge number, they should have taken the picks.

This is an entirely different conversation, but I don't see how Buffalo couldn't match the offer. Buffalo has one of the best fan bases in the NHL, they almost made the finals the past 2 years and their fans have been insanely loyal. From a management standpoint, hell, from a fans standpoint who actually tries to understand the ins and outs of the buisness there's no possible way you can let your 3 best players which include both of your captains go and expect the fans not to have some riot.

As much as I don't think Penner is worth 4.3m, Vanek is closer to a 7m player than Penner is to a 4.3m player. Both players are overpaid at this current time, though.

[eva unit zero 271]

That is absolutely nuts! Pronger's talent speaks for itself, and Beachemin is a very underrated, good defenseman...as well as a key ingredient to winning the Cup. If you actually believe what you're saying here...christ, i dont know what to say.

Smid could likely have performed as Beauchemin's equal given a switch of roles, so we'll assume that even. So we have to consider Fedorov/Lupul vs Pronger/Marchant. Based on the past three seasons, Marchant is a 10-goal, 30-point player, Pronger is a 14-goal, 60-point player, Fedorov is a 23-goal, 60-point player, and Lupul is a 20-goal, 40-point player. Based on offense alone, It's a difference of 19 goals and 10 points total. Lupul is mediocre defensively. Marchant is good defensively. Fedorov is excellent defensively, and Pronger is excellent defensively. The one thing that you must consider is the fact that had Pronger not been acquired, Keith Carney and Vitali Vishnevski would likely still be in town. Which means that Pronger's big minutes defensively would have been covered. Having Fedorov and Lupul instead of Marchant makes the offense infinitely deeper and more versatile. In other words, the Ducks probably had a better shot at winning the Cup without making those two trades.

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

I have to disagree, you should sign your young RFA's first before going to raid other peoples talent. I would take Penner right now over Bertuzzi. Penner wouldn't have cost him what Edmonton is paying him. Burke is already trying to TRADE that #1 that he just received. You take care of business at home before going to raid other teams talent, which is what he did in Bertuzzi and Schneider. He still doesn't know what Selanne and Neids are doing , this one is a botched effort by Burke, who in my opinion, is a very overrated GM. Look at his past track record before someone starts flaming me.

I agree , signing your RFA's are more vital than signing UFA's . Penner has the potential to become one of the top power forward's in the near future. Although if i had an option between Bertuzzi and Penner right now , i'd take Bert. but if I was Burke I would have re - signed Penner . The Ducks are a tough young strong team that didn't need Bertuzzi.

IMO Burke's blew it big time.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Smid could likely have performed as Beauchemin's equal given a switch of roles, so we'll assume that even. So we have to consider Fedorov/Lupul vs Pronger/Marchant. Based on the past three seasons, Marchant is a 10-goal, 30-point player, Pronger is a 14-goal, 60-point player, Fedorov is a 23-goal, 60-point player, and Lupul is a 20-goal, 40-point player. Based on offense alone, It's a difference of 19 goals and 10 points total. Lupul is mediocre defensively. Marchant is good defensively. Fedorov is excellent defensively, and Pronger is excellent defensively. The one thing that you must consider is the fact that had Pronger not been acquired, Keith Carney and Vitali Vishnevski would likely still be in town. Which means that Pronger's big minutes defensively would have been covered. Having Fedorov and Lupul instead of Marchant makes the offense infinitely deeper and more versatile. In other words, the Ducks probably had a better shot at winning the Cup without making those two trades.

Sorry, but i stopped reading after the first line. No point in going any further.

[eva unit zero 271]

Sorry, but i stopped reading after the first line. No point in going any further.

You don't think Smid, a top prospect, could have performed as well as Beauchemin, given the same opportunity?

Smid is more of a two-way defenseman than Beauchemin. I think that, if Burke doesn't make the Fedorov trade and instead adds Smid to his top four, that Smid would have progressed at least to the point Beauchemin is at now. It's an entirely academic point, but not an unreasonable one. It's unlike you, Lou, to prefer the smaller, more offensively capable, defensively weaker player in a comparison...are you next going to say you prefer Hudler to Filppula or perhaps Samuelsson to Franzen?

[Heaton 1]

Sorry, but i stopped reading after the first line. No point in going any further.

Err, why not? Smid will be a much better defensemen than Beauchemin in their respective careers. If Beauchemin would've been better, he would be in Edmonton right now and Smid would've stayed in Anaheim.

[2probert4 8]

This is an entirely different conversation, but I don't see how Buffalo couldn't match the offer. Buffalo has one of the best fan bases in the NHL, they almost made the finals the past 2 years and their fans have been insanely loyal. From a management standpoint, hell, from a fans standpoint who actually tries to understand the ins and outs of the buisness there's no possible way you can let your 3 best players which include both of your captains go and expect the fans not to have some riot.

As much as I don't think Penner is worth 4.3m, Vanek is closer to a 7m player than Penner is to a 4.3m player. Both players are overpaid at this current time, though.

Buffalo didnt really have a choice, they knew they were losing Briere and Drury to UFA, so they were in position that Vanek had to stay. As much as I dislike Burke, the Pronger trade well he had picks to trade that came before he came in, so he once again took advantage of the gold mine that he walked into, and got Pronger. Kudos to him for that deal.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

if edmonton sucks and anaheim gets the 1st overall then losing penner wont even matter

[Guest nutz2u]

I don't like :puke: Burke or :looney: Lowe so I hope Penner sucks and that the three picks Burke gets for him never even get a sniff of the NHL. :rotflmao:

Edited August 4, 2007 by nutz2u

[Kp-Wings 3]

Anaheim won the Cup, he walked in on what Bryan Murray built.

Exactly. Burke hardly had a hand in bringing anybody on the current Cup team. His biggest aquisition was Pronger, which was good, but after that it's cut and dry. Depending on who you ask, his next biggest trade aquisition was either Todd Marchant or Brad May.

Niedermayer decided he was going to Anaheim before Burke was there. The young kids like Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner, were all drafted (or in Penner's case signed) when Murray was still the GM.

Burke is so overrated, it's not even funny. He was a horrible GM in Vancouver, and he's still a horrible GM now in my opinion. I can't wait to see the Bertuzzi signing blow up in his face, so everybody will shut up about how great Brian Burke is a GM, because he's not.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

lets go oilers lol, we wont reall know until the season is like half over...see how edmonton is doin or if bert is hurt yet

[Lou_Siffer 1]

You don't think Smid, a top prospect, could have performed as well as Beauchemin, given the same opportunity?

Smid is more of a two-way defenseman than Beauchemin. I think that, if Burke doesn't make the Fedorov trade and instead adds Smid to his top four, that Smid would have progressed at least to the point Beauchemin is at now. It's an entirely academic point, but not an unreasonable one. It's unlike you, Lou, to prefer the smaller, more offensively capable, defensively weaker player in a comparison...are you next going to say you prefer Hudler to Filppula or perhaps Samuelsson to Franzen?

The point is I dont see how you can make the assumption that Smid would be the equal to what Beauchemin was last year...especially considering he played very well. Could he turn out to be better in the future? Maybe, who the hell knows, but we're talking about last year's team. Present day it is without a shadow of a doubt - Beauchemin > Smid..until proven otherwise. As for the other guys, Pronger's value is so much more than Fedorov's its ridiculous. Lupul is definitely better than Marchant obviously, but that difference doesnt come close to equaling the difference from Pronger/Beauchemin vs Fedorov/Smid.

Err, why not? Smid will be a much better defensemen than Beauchemin in their respective careers. If Beauchemin would've been better, he would be in Edmonton right now and Smid would've stayed in Anaheim.

Key words. This is about who wouldve been better for Anaheim on last year's team. I assume that you wouldnt call that equal?

Edited August 4, 2007 by Lou_Siffer

[Manoir 70]

The best thing Burke did was getting rid of the salaries of Federov and Sykora. It allowed him to be flexible in the long-run and bring in Pronger and retain Giguere. You can't discount that. He's done a very good job.