Devils sign Arron Asham

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Ever see a team come out flat because their fighter was tooled? I sure have. Can't that lead to losses?

So you're agreeing that fighting can have an impact on a game? I was always under the impression that you felt it had no effect either way???

[norrisnick 1]

So you're agreeing that fighting can have an impact on a game? I was always under the impression that you felt it had no effect either way???

They can some, but not in and of themselves. If you don't have a good team it doesn't matter how much you fight. You're still not going anywhere. And if you fight at inopportune moments and/or lose you're not helping anything. I just don't see a point in obsessing about it before patching bigger more important holes.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I never thought Holland would sign Asham.

Still, I would've rather had Asham at $700,000 than Drake at $550,000.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Plus, I don't think Asham would be nearly as good being the go-to tough guy. He usually rides shotgun with bigger badder dudes (Cairns, Godard, Erskine, Simon, Witt, etc...). Since one is the most you guys could possibly hope for, Asham is probably not the guy for you.

Oh sure, I would rather have guys like Cairns, Witt, or Erskine, but I know that Ken Holland would never give these guys a chance in hell to play for the Wings. So, I'm compromising to go with Asham.

Plus, Asham is not a one-dimensional enforcer like some guys. He can play the game rather effectivily without fighting, even though I, of course, want him doing plenty of that.

Holland had a good chance to get Witt at the 2006 trade deadline. All he would have had to do is give up a 1st round pick, which is all that Nashville did. Coincidentally, we ended up trading that pick, and not using it, for a 2nd round pick and something like a 6th or 7th round pick. I don't know why he saw Witt wasn't a good pickup, and Cory Cross was.

...and yes, I know Cross was a depth pickup, but having Witt would have easily eliminated Lilja from the fold, and perhaps his horrible playoffs that year would have never happened.

Holland doesn't know grit. He really doesn't. I mean, some of the guys the Wings have on the 3rd/4th line are fringe players at the highest level, and really, should be playing for crappy teams like Phoenix. Guys like Samulesson, Kopecky, etc.

They aren't good enough to be top 6 forwards on this team, nor are they physical or versitile enough to be depth players. As much as I don't like Fedorov, he's versitile enough to play on a checking line and still could provide offense. On bad teams like Phoenix, they could be top 6 forwards, because they have nobody else, nor will they be expected to perform on a nightly basis like they are here.

So, until that level is addressed, I will continue to complain about it. No sense pretending it doesn't exist, because it does very much.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

OMG KENNY WTF ARE YOU DOING NOT SIGNING A TOUGH FIGHTER GUY! YOU IMBOSIL!!!!!!!!!!

/sarcasm

[Kp-Wings 3]

OMG KENNY WTF ARE YOU DOING NOT SIGNING A TOUGH FIGHTER GUY! YOU IMBOSIL!!!!!!!!!!

/sarcasm

Thanks for, yet again, another wonderful contribution.

God forbid we actually question Ken Holland, or mention a fighter.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

That sucks , he'd be better then Kopecky or Samulesson.

One of these days we'll get someone.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Thanks for, yet again, another wonderful contribution.

God forbid we actually question Ken Holland, or mention a fighter.

Your welcome.

Questioning him is fine.

But he knows a helluva lot more to this business than you, me, or anybody else in here, and people in here go way off the deep end when he doesn't make a move for player ABC or XYZ every single time, especially when, in all likelihood, getting player ABC and XYZ isn't all that high of a priority.

You know that.

Wanting fighting in here, when it's not the #1 prioirty, is as overhyped in here as the NFL preseason.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I don't think I was going off the deep end saying that I want Asham on this team.

We all have our own opinions if fighting is important or not, and I feel it is. I don't really want to think up another 10,000 word paragraph about why it is, because I've done it so many times already.

I don't mind disagreeing, but you doing the OMG KENNI U NOT SINE A FIGHTSER RAWR!!!11!!!!!1 is pretty unnecessary, since I don't recall anyone actually doing that in this topic.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Look on the bright side, Kp, its a one year contract, which means you can re-use your posts from this year to try and get him in the Winged-Wheel.

[sticknmove 0]

Asham would have been perfect, Kopecky is unproven i understand he was injured but was pretty much invisible until then. drake is ok, but for a little more we could have had asham, and a little more being aprox 2 hundred thousand. i think any GM would laugh at you for thinking signing drake instead of asham (even with the slight increase in ashams deal) was the better move. i love the accusations some make around here along the lines of "blah blah blah some ppl want a fighter more the a sailor and a bj, blah blah blah, the wings dont need a fighter and all you who think they do are morons, blah blah blah" well i think the ppl who dont realize that we despretly need some grit and PROTECION for our skill guys are morons who are quite clueless into what is needed to build a stanley cup winning team. now feel free to use your baseless insults to try to divert the attention from my point to your ranting attacks. cheers!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Oh sure, I would rather have guys like Cairns, Witt, or Erskine, but I know that Ken Holland would never give these guys a chance in hell to play for the Wings. So, I'm compromising to go with Asham.

Actually, Holland went hard after Witt before the 06 playoffs. Dont you remember? He was rumored to be going to either Nashville or Detroit, and Nashville was the one that forked over the #1 pick for him. Detroit wasnt willing to do that, and rightfully so, because Witt only ended up playing a handful of games for Nashville.

Im not gonna complain about us signing Asham, because I didnt expect us to. Once we had Drake - hell, once we had Kopecky in the fold - we all shouldve known that nothing else would come of our bottom 6. And I dont mind that. NN is right, the LAST thing we need is another bottom 6 - we have at least 8 guys that could be qualified as such on probably 2/3 of offenses in the NHL. But whoever said also, and I think it mightve been you KP who it explained it to a T, we have really boring bottom 6 players. Ive been struggling to put a name on it, but that would probably be it. There isnt a lot of exciting hits or aggression or even fighting, however occassional, its just not there. Is our bottom 6 steady? Yeah, sure. It gets the job down relatively well. But IMO, its a very incomplete/unbalanced bottom 6 with too much of the same player and would be more effective with even 1 or 2 physical guys replacing what we already have too much of.

As for Holland, I think theres a misperception about him. He DID bring in Bertuzzi, he DID go after Witt, he DID always give Fischer a chance even when he was playing some suspect hockey, and he DID admit to going after both Lapointe and Mayers. IMO, those are all pretty bona fide tough guys. Enforcers? Not necessarily, but great physical hockey players nonetheless. The thing you have to understand with Holland AND Illitch is that they want to have high-end success all the time, and I dont think theres any GM that will tell you fighting is more crucial to winning than offense. So, IMO, Holland puts out a lot more for the latter than he does for the former. Is that bad for winning the ultimate prize? Well, as weve seen, it definitely is if its not addressed by the trade deadline. Is that bad for exciting hockey year round? absolutely.

[Guest snowman89]

Yes... Samuelsson, our 20-goal-scoring (barring injury), 5th on the team in playoff scoring, $1.5m/yr 4th line scrub... yes...

I think any GM would laugh at you if you suggested they take Asham over Samuelsson.

WTF? who is Asham, why are you guys creaming over this talentless hack, im sure he can kill penalties like maltby, score goals(man the point-not all-star dont get me wrong) like samueslson, ya i agree with getting tougher, spending money on a guy that can only fight and play "physical" is not going to help, everybody is enamered with anaheim and there big physical guys, yes they are all scorers as well not just physical, that is why they won the stanley cup. The Wings have been incredible for almost 20 years now, i am pretty sure Holland can figure out what to do, and that is not spending money on hacks that can fight, you can get that by bringing up some goone from Grand Rapids if you want somebody to fight so bad. Plus even if the Wings have a few lean years, let the team pile up some draft picks for the best drafting staff in the NHL

[Doctor G 0]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=215641&hubname=nhl

Well, I feel the majority of people here will be happy, becuase his name will no longer be mentioned to come here. I, for one, am not, because he would have been a perfect fit here.

Nevertheless, it should be interesting to see him and Cam Janssen playing on the same team. Those two fight each other every chance they get.

Kp I agree Asham would of been a very solid fit here and he would have been a better pick-up than Drake. But you will not see Holland sign any touch guys. That is not the way he runs the Wings. If you want a tougher team either you will have to wait fora new GM (that will not for a long time) or you can root for a new team (probably not happening either). So you can just come to grips with what the Wings are, a good team that will get their points and make the playoffs. Now you may not enjoy the product all the time, but have a couple of beers and you can watch womens beach volley ball.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Actually, Holland went hard after Witt before the 06 playoffs. Dont you remember? He was rumored to be going to either Nashville or Detroit, and Nashville was the one that forked over the #1 pick for him. Detroit wasnt willing to do that, and rightfully so, because Witt only ended up playing a handful of games for Nashville.

Yeah, but come on. The 1st round pick was the only holding point. Now, if we had actually used that pick, I'd be fine with it. But we gave it up anyways at the draft, and for what exactly? A 2nd round pick and some other low round pick if I remember correctly. I don't know about you, but I don't get particularly excited when the Wings give away 1st round picks for basically nothing, and then draft some guy named Steve Buttf*** in the 6th round.

But whoever said also, and I think it mightve been you KP who it explained it to a T, we have really boring bottom 6 players. Ive been struggling to put a name on it, but that would probably be it. There isnt a lot of exciting hits or aggression or even fighting, however occassional, its just not there. Is our bottom 6 steady? Yeah, sure. It gets the job down relatively well. But IMO, its a very incomplete/unbalanced bottom 6 with too much of the same player and would be more effective with even 1 or 2 physical guys replacing what we already have too much of.

It was me, and I'm glad someone else finally realizes it. This is one of my problems with Holland, is that he signs the most boring players for the bottom 6 roles. You know, bring in some physical presence for the bottom 6, even if it isn't a fighter, at least have him be a guy who hits people, and not be some useless road side building that doesn't use his size at all (Kopecky).

I mean, sure, he signed Dallas Drake, which I guess is all I can expect from Holland. I don't have a problem with Drake, since he plays an entertaining style, something that might actually wake the dead we call a JLA crowd at those Monday night games against Columbus. But considering he's 38 years old and injury prone, doesn't it make sense to go after a younger guy who would make probably the same amount of money or near that?

As for Holland, I think theres a misperception about him. He DID bring in Bertuzzi, he DID go after Witt, he DID always give Fischer a chance even when he was playing some suspect hockey, and he DID admit to going after both Lapointe and Mayers. IMO, those are all pretty bona fide tough guys. Enforcers? Not necessarily, but great physical hockey players nonetheless.

He clutches at straws when it comes to toughness though.

Ok, think back to last years free agency. It's a dull time, when nobody is exited. Holland says "Hey, what the hell, I'll sign an enforcer". Well, now where getting somewhere. He has some choices, and some good ones too, like Krzysztof Oliwa, Ryan Vandenbussche, and a couple others for that matter.

Now, before anyone says "Oliwa and Vandenbussche are goons!!!!!!!1!!!!11", the guy Holland signed incidentally is also a goon who can't play other parts of the game very well either. Who is that guy? Brad Norton, in case we all forgot.

Now, the names mentioned aren't the greatest of skilled hockey players. However, unlike Norton, Oliwa and Vandenbussche have a history of being excellent fighters and do that part of the game quite well. Norton, on the other hand, is not only a bad hockey player, but also a bad fighter.

See, that's my problem. Holland doesn't know these guys, and he should, because he's an NHL GM. I mean, I knew Brad Norton sucked before he played here. He bounced around on 3 non-playoff teams pre-lockout (Florida, LA, Washington), all 3 of which finished near the bottom of the standings those respective seasons he was on those teams. They all had major injury problems and talent depletion, which is probably why Norton was able to solidify himself a roster spot. They couldn't have actually thought he was good player, or a good fighter for that matter.

The thing you have to understand with Holland AND Illitch is that they want to have high-end success all the time, and I dont think theres any GM that will tell you fighting is more crucial to winning than offense. So, IMO, Holland puts out a lot more for the latter than he does for the former. Is that bad for winning the ultimate prize? Well, as weve seen, it definitely is if its not addressed by the trade deadline. Is that bad for exciting hockey year round? absolutely.

I never said fighting was more crucial to winning then offense. I said it is crucial to winning, but not more so then offense itself.

Come on though. Holland didn't sign any top 6 forwards this offseason, which I give him credit for not doing, because they all suck and are ridiculously overpaid.

But really, when it comes to a decision where he's like "Well, I need thoughness!!!11!!!!!!1" and your three components are Kopecky, Drake, or a good fighter on the market who's still young and is a decent player all around, who do you take? I mean, there are other players other then Asham that can be a #1 tough guy and not suck in all other aspects of the game, contrary to the popular belief around here at these forums.

He had plenty of choices, but he took the usual page out of the "Ken Holland management handbook" by signing someone for that role who is old, a former Wing, and is near the end of their career. Not that I'm totally against Dallas Drake, but there were better players.

I don't count on it changing anytime soon, and yes, the Wings do have plenty of bottom 6 players, and don't have room for another. The ones we got don't impress me though, and that's my complaint.

edited for grammar

Edited August 8, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Asham would have been perfect, Kopecky is unproven i understand he was injured but was pretty much invisible until then. drake is ok, but for a little more we could have had asham, and a little more being aprox 2 hundred thousand. i think any GM would laugh at you for thinking signing drake instead of asham (even with the slight increase in ashams deal) was the better move. i love the accusations some make around here along the lines of "blah blah blah some ppl want a fighter more the a sailor and a bj, blah blah blah, the wings dont need a fighter and all you who think they do are morons, blah blah blah" well i think the ppl who dont realize that we despretly need some grit and PROTECION for our skill guys are morons who are quite clueless into what is needed to build a stanley cup winning team. now feel free to use your baseless insults to try to divert the attention from my point to your ranting attacks. cheers!

No, we just realize that Anaheim and Detroit both play completely different styles of hockey that made both teams successful in different ways this past season, and that Detroit showed there fight without any major big guys or fighters protecting their star players.

If they were getting constantly pushed around and kept losing, then I'd understand the need a bit more. They didn't get pushed around by any of the "Big Three" physical teams in the playoffs on a consistant/dominating basis. It's not a #1 priority.

WTF? who is Asham, why are you guys creaming over this talentless hack, im sure he can kill penalties like maltby, score goals(man the point-not all-star dont get me wrong) like samueslson, ya i agree with getting tougher, spending money on a guy that can only fight and play "physical" is not going to help, everybody is enamered with anaheim and there big physical guys, yes they are all scorers as well not just physical, that is why they won the stanley cup. The Wings have been incredible for almost 20 years now, i am pretty sure Holland can figure out what to do, and that is not spending money on hacks that can fight, you can get that by bringing up some goone from Grand Rapids if you want somebody to fight so bad. Plus even if the Wings have a few lean years, let the team pile up some draft picks for the best drafting staff in the NHL

Quoted for truth.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

The arguments for signing Asham in this thread are so persuasive that I, along with all other Red Wings fans, am now completley convinced that the general managment team of Holland, Devellano, Nill, Yzerman, and Bowman needs to be replaced immediately with posters on these boards.

Immediately.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Oh sure, I would rather have guys like Cairns, Witt, or Erskine, but I know that Ken Holland would never give these guys a chance in hell to play for the Wings. So, I'm compromising to go with Asham.

Plus, Asham is not a one-dimensional enforcer like some guys. He can play the game rather effectivily without fighting, even though I, of course, want him doing plenty of that.

Holland had a good chance to get Witt at the 2006 trade deadline. All he would have had to do is give up a 1st round pick, which is all that Nashville did. Coincidentally, we ended up trading that pick, and not using it, for a 2nd round pick and something like a 6th or 7th round pick. I don't know why he saw Witt wasn't a good pickup, and Cory Cross was.

...and yes, I know Cross was a depth pickup, but having Witt would have easily eliminated Lilja from the fold, and perhaps his horrible playoffs that year would have never happened.

Holland doesn't know grit. He really doesn't. I mean, some of the guys the Wings have on the 3rd/4th line are fringe players at the highest level, and really, should be playing for crappy teams like Phoenix. Guys like Samulesson, Kopecky, etc.

They aren't good enough to be top 6 forwards on this team, nor are they physical or versitile enough to be depth players. As much as I don't like Fedorov, he's versitile enough to play on a checking line and still could provide offense. On bad teams like Phoenix, they could be top 6 forwards, because they have nobody else, nor will they be expected to perform on a nightly basis like they are here.

So, until that level is addressed, I will continue to complain about it. No sense pretending it doesn't exist, because it does very much.

I always liked Asham and everyone knows I love fights. But another poster said it already, we have a glaring need for a sniper and very little need for another plugger. And if we signed Asham I think we'd be hard pressed to find any takers for Drake. We have too many guys at the bottom end of a 12-13 man forward rotation. We need a top 6.

IMO, Asham put up really good numbers because he had decent playing time on the island. He played over 9 minutes a game. Put him on our 4th line and he's not going to get that much playing time. I think that would reduce his numbers and reduce his impact. As for "all the fighting" we'd want him to do. Asham only had 5 fights last year and only 3 the year prior to that. Generally he's good for about 1 fight every 16-17 games. I hardly think that would be enough to quench our thirsts.

If we didn't have Drake, Asham would've been a great selection even though I think he would've had a minimal impact.

[eva unit zero 271]

Yeah, but come on. The 1st round pick was the only holding point. Now, if we had actually used that pick, I'd be fine with it. But we gave it up anyways at the draft, and for what exactly? A 2nd round pick and some other low round pick if I remember correctly. I don't know about you, but I don't get particularly excited when the Wings give away 1st round picks for basically nothing, and then draft some guy named Steve Buttf*** in the 6th round.

The Wings' 1st was traded to Phoenix for two 2nd picks, which were used on Cory Emmerton and Shawn Matthias. Emmerton is generally regarded as a pretty good bet to be a top-six scoring forward. Matthias was traded for Bertuzzi.

It was me, and I'm glad someone else finally realizes it. This is one of my problems with Holland, is that he signs the most boring players for the bottom 6 roles. You know, bring in some physical presence for the bottom 6, even if it isn't a fighter, at least have him be a guy who hits people, and not be some useless road side building that doesn't use his size at all (Kopecky).

I mean, sure, he signed Dallas Drake, which I guess is all I can expect from Holland. I don't have a problem with Drake, since he plays an entertaining style, something that might actually wake the dead we call a JLA crowd at those Monday night games against Columbus. But considering he's 38 years old and injury prone, doesn't it make sense to go after a younger guy who would make probably the same amount of money or near that?

Drake and Asham are pretty similar players signed for pretty similar salaries. Asham at this point would likely provide a little bit more offense, while Drake brings better defense and strong faceoff abilities. Drake also brings tons of experience and leadership, which is a major reason he was acquired; If Kopecky develops into another Drake because of Drake's presence, that's better than signing Asham.

He clutches at straws when it comes to toughness though.

Ok, think back to last years free agency. It's a dull time, when nobody is exited. Holland says "Hey, what the hell, I'll sign an enforcer". Well, now where getting somewhere. He has some choices, and some good ones too, like Krzysztof Oliwa, Ryan Vandenbussche, and a couple others for that matter.

Now, before anyone says "Oliwa and Vandenbussche are goons!!!!!!!1!!!!11", the guy Holland signed incidentally is also a goon who can't play other parts of the game very well either. Who is that guy? Brad Norton, in case we all forgot.

Now, the names mentioned aren't the greatest of skilled hockey players. However, unlike Norton, Oliwa and Vandenbussche have a history of being excellent fighters and do that part of the game quite well. Norton, on the other hand, is not only a bad hockey player, but also a bad fighter.

See, that's my problem. Holland doesn't know these guys, and he should, because he's an NHL GM. I mean, I knew Brad Norton sucked before he played here. He bounced around on 3 non-playoff teams pre-lockout (Florida, LA, Washington), all 3 of which finished near the bottom of the standings those respective seasons he was on those teams. They all had major injury problems and talent depletion, which is probably why Norton was able to solidify himself a roster spot. They couldn't have actually thought he was good player, or a good fighter for that matter.

Norton was signed for Grand Rapids, and was Babcock's first pick to fill out the roster when they had injuries going into the season. He was never INTENDED to be an enforcer on the Wings.

I never said fighting was more crucial to winning then offense. I said it is crucial to winning, but not more so then offense itself.

Fighting is not crucial to winning. Toughness is crucial to winning. But toughness and fighting are NOT the same thing.

Come on though. Holland didn't sign any top 6 forwards this offseason, which I give him credit for not doing, because they all suck and are ridiculously overpaid.

But really, when it comes to a decision where he's like "Well, I need thoughness!!!11!!!!!!1" and your three components are Kopecky, Drake, or a good fighter on the market who's still young and is a decent player all around, who do you take? I mean, there are other players other then Asham that can be a #1 tough guy and not suck in all other aspects of the game, contrary to the popular belief around here at these forums.

He had plenty of choices, but he took the usual page out of the "Ken Holland management handbook" by signing someone for that role who is old, a former Wing, and is near the end of their career. Not that I'm totally against Dallas Drake, but there were better players.

I don't count on it changing anytime soon, and yes, the Wings do have plenty of bottom 6 players, and don't have room for another. The ones we got don't impress me though, and that's my complaint.

Asham over Drake or Maltby wouldn't have made a significant difference. They all would have played fourth line anyway. If you think swapping out Drake or Maltby for Asham significantly alters our chances to win this year or in the future, you are nuts.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

What many of us Asham "fans" like about him is that he's the type that'll do anything; whether it's digging loose pucks outta the corners, crashing into the opposing Dmen on an aggressive forecheck, going hard to the net (maybe 'accidentally' bumping the goalie), & of couse his ability to drop the mitts/stand-up for his teammates...IMO signing Maltby wasn't the best move considering Asham was available for less $$$, is several years younger, & 1 could argue he would contribute more to our Red Wings.

Like I said earlier, Maltby was re-signed because he is one of the few remaining faces of the Red Wings. He and Draper still form the grind line with whichever player plays on the wing with them. That is a staple for Red Wings fans, particularly the casual fans, and lets not forget that hockey is a business, and the majority of casual Wings fans see Maltby and recognize his name. If Asham replaced Maltby, those fans would be thinking whose the "Asian lookin dude?"

As for Drake over Asham, the only thing I can say is that the leadership thing mustve been important, because other than that, theres no other reason to justify Drake over Asham at a 200k difference.

[eva unit zero 271]

What many of us Asham "fans" like about him is that he's the type that'll do anything; whether it's digging loose pucks outta the corners, crashing into the opposing Dmen on an aggressive forecheck, going hard to the net (maybe 'accidentally' bumping the goalie), & of couse his ability to drop the mitts/stand-up for his teammates...IMO signing Maltby wasn't the best move considering Asham was available for less $$$, is several years younger, & 1 could argue he would contribute more to our Red Wings.

Asham's deal does make me wonder;

Last year he made 925k...now he accepts a deal for 700k? Is there some reason he was on the market for so long, and the nended up with a pay cut, even though he's a versatile, physical player who puts up decent numbers for a bottom-six forward? Maybe there's a reason nobody was interested.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Could Asham be an "Avery" clone? If so I could see how some GMs might shy away.

Avery is the biggest clown in the league. Asham isn't as good a player as Avery, but he's not nearly as annoying and is a much better fighter than Avery.

[sticknmove 0]

"WTF? who is Asham, why are you guys creaming over this talentless hack, im sure he can kill penalties like maltby, score goals(man the point-not all-star dont get me wrong) like samueslson, ya i agree with getting tougher, spending money on a guy that can only fight and play "physical" is not going to help, everybody is enamered with anaheim and there big physical guys, yes they are all scorers as well not just physical, that is why they won the stanley cup. The Wings have been incredible for almost 20 years now, i am pretty sure Holland can figure out what to do, and that is not spending money on hacks that can fight, you can get that by bringing up some goone from Grand Rapids if you want somebody to fight so bad. Plus even if the Wings have a few lean years, let the team pile up some draft picks for the best drafting staff in the NHL

Quoted for truth."

HAHAHA more like quoted from someone who is more or less not very informed on NHL players outside the Red Wings franchise. Second Asham took the paycut not because he is a cancer or Avery clone, he is actually drawn nothing but praise from past coaches and teamates, however he took the paycut to go to a contender which the Islanders are not (if you look at them they are arguably setting up to be the worst in the NHL). And the comment of piling up draft picks is ok, if you consider the average turnaround from draft to day to actual NHL readiness is 5-7 years, and thats for the ones who even see the league which the majority do not.

Edited August 8, 2007 by sticknmove

[eva unit zero 271]

"WTF? who is Asham, why are you guys creaming over this talentless hack, im sure he can kill penalties like maltby, score goals(man the point-not all-star dont get me wrong) like samueslson, ya i agree with getting tougher, spending money on a guy that can only fight and play "physical" is not going to help, everybody is enamered with anaheim and there big physical guys, yes they are all scorers as well not just physical, that is why they won the stanley cup. The Wings have been incredible for almost 20 years now, i am pretty sure Holland can figure out what to do, and that is not spending money on hacks that can fight, you can get that by bringing up some goone from Grand Rapids if you want somebody to fight so bad. Plus even if the Wings have a few lean years, let the team pile up some draft picks for the best drafting staff in the NHL

Quoted for truth."

HAHAHA more like quoted from someone who is more or less not very informed on NHL players outside the Red Wings franchise. Second Asham took the paycut not because he is a cancer or Avery clone, he is actually drawn nothing but praise from past coaches and teamates, however he took the paycut to go to a contender which the Islanders are not (if you look at them they are arguably setting up to be the worst in the NHL). And the comment of piling up draft picks is ok, if you consider the average turnaround from draft to day to actual NHL readiness is 5-7 years, and thats for the ones who even see the league which the majority do not.

If Asham is as good as people on here suggest he is, why weren't more teams than a depleted New Jersey squad interested, and why did he end up with a pay cut. By pay cut, I don't mean it like some have used, that he makes less than he could have (a la Rafalski), but he makes less than he did last year. My anticipation is one of two reasons: Either Asham has some locker room/team player issue, or he didn't want to leave the NY area but wanted to play for a contender. If the first is true, he's not a better choice than Drake. If the second is true, he wasn't an available choice for Holland.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

If Asham is as good as people on here suggest he is, why weren't more teams than a depleted New Jersey squad interested, and why did he end up with a pay cut. By pay cut, I don't mean it like some have used, that he makes less than he could have (a la Rafalski), but he makes less than he did last year. My anticipation is one of two reasons: Either Asham has some locker room/team player issue, or he didn't want to leave the NY area but wanted to play for a contender. If the first is true, he's not a better choice than Drake. If the second is true, he wasn't an available choice for Holland.

It could be one of those things or it could be as simple as his demands were too high at the start of open season and as teams filled their voids with cheaper guys Asham found himself without many suitors and therefore had to lower his price.

Of course his numbers were pretty darn good last year so i'm shocked the guy couldn't get at least as much as he did last season. It is truly a mystery.