Babcock talks training camp

[Kp-Wings 3]

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007/08/be...aska_babco.html

Talks about various issues, from current forward lines, to splitting up Datsyuk and Zetterberg, giving Kronwall more ice time, and Dallas Drake, amoung other things.

[Feldmarschall 9]

Looks like this is Kronwall's make-or-break year. Babs has big plans. I like that he's left the bottom spots completely open for competition. He also hasn't jumped on the Grigorenko bandwagon. He'll make Igor prove himself. Good news all around.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i like the kopecky malpty and drake line...if they play up to their potential we'll have 2 grind lines

[55fan 5,133]

I found this today whilst looking for something else, but I thought it was interesting:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...articlecomments

His lines for forwards are:

Dats, Homer, and a left wing

Hank, Sammy, and a left wing

Cleary, Flip, Drapes

Kopecky, Malts, Drake

The left wings will be Huds and Franzen, but he's not sure who goes where until he sees Igor.

He also intends to pair Rafalski and Lids together, and Kronwall and Lilja together, with Brian and the Ni©ks taking most of the minutes.

Obviously, much is still up in the air, but I got the sense he's excited. So am I.

[hoogs 8]

Boy I am really NOT excited about these lines

Dats, Homer, and a left wing - I think Franzen fits well here, but on the top line??

Hank, Sammy, and a left wing - Hudler? Sammy is on our second line?? Ouch

Cleary, Flip, Drapes - This one isnt bad, maybe Cleary, Flip, Grigs.........sounds better if Grigs pans out

Kopecky, Malts, Drake - Swap Draper for Kopecky and you have a nice 4th line

The left wings will be Huds and Franzen, but he's not sure who goes where until he sees Igor.

Bottom line is Franzen and Sammy arent top line players in my mind, Franzen is good but not THAT good and Sammy.......well is Sammy. Kopecky hasnt impressed me so far and there isnt much room for him if Grigs pans out (hopefully) guess we will just have to wait and see, I wish they could of picked up one more top six forward, I would be much more excited then.

[Heaton 1]

Boy I am really NOT excited about these lines

Dats, Homer, and a left wing - I think Franzen fits well here, but on the top line??

Hank, Sammy, and a left wing - Hudler? Sammy is on our second line?? Ouch

Cleary, Flip, Drapes - This one isnt bad, maybe Cleary, Flip, Grigs.........sounds better if Grigs pans out

Kopecky, Malts, Drake - Swap Draper for Kopecky and you have a nice 4th line

The left wings will be Huds and Franzen, but he's not sure who goes where until he sees Igor.

Bottom line is Franzen and Sammy arent top line players in my mind, Franzen is good but not THAT good and Sammy.......well is Sammy. Kopecky hasnt impressed me so far and there isnt much room for him if Grigs pans out (hopefully) guess we will just have to wait and see, I wish they could of picked up one more top six forward, I would be much more excited then.

In this day and age, Samuelsson is a top line player. You want to have guys who are cheap that can fill out the top 6 who can play in all offensive situations. Samuelsson has been a 20 goal scorer since he got here, had he not gotten injured last year he would've scored 20 goals again, that's about what you should expect from the guy.

There's nothing wrong with Samuelsson on the 2nd line.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Looks like this is Kronwall's make-or-break year.

It'd better be. Kronwall's underachieved so far. Too many defensive breakdowns, and not enough display of that offensive prowess he's supposed to have. If he doesn't break out this year, I don't think he ever will, and that big extension will turn into a liability very quickly.

[Heaton 1]

It'd better be. Kronwall's underachieved so far. Too many defensive breakdowns, and not enough display of that offensive prowess he's supposed to have. If he doesn't break out this year, I don't think he ever will, and that big extension will turn into a liability very quickly.

I disagree, I'm obviously a big Kronwall fan but at worst Kronwall turns into a very capable #4 defensemen and his contract is on par with most #4 defensemen in the league. At best he's a very underpaid #2 defensemen, which he should be by the time Lidstrom retires.

[wingsfan93 0]

i dont think kronwall has underacheived given the fact he hasnt got a chance to acheive because of injuries and sammy has been on a 20 gaol pace scince hes been here , whats your problem with him

[Drake_Marcus 890]

i dont think kronwall has underacheived given the fact he hasnt got a chance to acheive because of injuries and sammy has been on a 20 gaol pace scince hes been here , whats your problem with him

He ******* blows compared to Cleary, who is not in the top six as of this news.

That's my problem.

Sammy is a junk player who has been enhanced by the play of Z and Dats. Period.

[wingsfan40 0]

Good Read

I think kronner will do good this year

[betterREDthandead 58]

He ******* blows compared to Cleary, who is not in the top six as of this news.

That's my problem.

Sammy is a junk player who has been enhanced by the play of Z and Dats. Period.

True....Sammy cannot make plays for himself or others. Doesn't bring much to the table. But he doesn't take anything off the table either, which is a lot more than can be said for a lot of players out there. The key there is that he's been "enhanced" by the presence of more talented linemates. The alternative is that he detracts from those linemates, which really, he doesn't do. And he doesn't eat up much cap space.

I disagree, I'm obviously a big Kronwall fan but at worst Kronwall turns into a very capable #4 defensemen and his contract is on par with most #4 defensemen in the league. At best he's a very underpaid #2 defensemen, which he should be by the time Lidstrom retires.

My problem with the contract is the length. If Kronwall does drop to a #4 defenseman, the Wings won't be able to trade him for a couple years because the contract is long.

[lidstromfan5 3]

Does anyone realize the re-signing of Maltby is harboring this team on our checking lines. I mean I like Malts as much as the next guy but I did not expect him to factor into the team this year.

Edited August 20, 2007 by lidstromfan5

[Heaton 1]

My problem with the contract is the length. If Kronwall does drop to a #4 defenseman, the Wings won't be able to trade him for a couple years because the contract is long.

They wouldn't trade him regardless, in two or three years a #4 defensemen will make a lot more than 3m/yr.

It won't matter though, Kronwall has all the tools, he's displayed it at every level including the NHL level just not over long periods of time. This season he'll take a step forward, I'd bank on it.

[betterREDthandead 58]

They wouldn't trade him regardless, in two or three years a #4 defensemen will make a lot more than 3m/yr.

It won't matter though, Kronwall has all the tools, he's displayed it at every level including the NHL level just not over long periods of time. This season he'll take a step forward, I'd bank on it.

I'll grant Kronwall this: Due to injury, I think he's only played roughly about as many NHL games as Sidney Crosby, despite having been in the NHL since about 2002, Crosby having been around only since 2005. If Kronwall has an injury-free season, great.....we'll finally see what he can do in a full 82 games. If he can't stay healthy, it'll further hurt the Wings, who will have to keep an extra defenseman under contract or available for call-up at all times.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

It'd better be. Kronwall's underachieved so far. Too many defensive breakdowns, and not enough display of that offensive prowess he's supposed to have. If he doesn't break out this year, I don't think he ever will, and that big extension will turn into a liability very quickly.

He hasn't underachieved. Every time he starts getting into a groove and playing great, he gets injured. It's just horrible luck. That's bound to change, and now is the time. It'll be his breakout year and he'll show why he's thought of as being a future star.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Dats and Hank will be back together no matter what he says. With Homer they were THE BEST LINE IN THE NHL!!! Why why why break it up? To spread around LESS scoring? The simple fact is this, nobody else can handle Dats and Hanks play making like Dats and Hank and Homer!

Okay, if he does split them then Flip or Franzen have to play with Dats too.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I don't know who he plans to play with Datsyuk and Holmstrom. Other then Zetterberg, we don't have anybody capable of playing the top line.

...and before I get to listen to it, guys like Hudler and Samulesson are not top line playes, no matter what anyone says. Especially Samulesson. 20 goals doesn't make somebody that. Ask Jason Williams.

This is why signing a top 6 forward would have prevented this. Since everyone is so hellbent on breaking Datsyuk and Zetterberg up (I have no idea why either, since they were both just plain awful at the start of last season when they weren't playing together) at least have someone in there who can play that role.

At this point, Jeff O'Neill or Peter Forsberg are the only guys who will fit that bill, neither of which will be coming here anytime soon. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Sidenote: I think it's so stupid that people want Zetterberg and Datsyuk broken up mainly because Zetterberg is a natural center. That is the lamest reason ever. Those two form arguably the best line in the league, and everybody wants to break it up? Why?

We have centers coming out of our asses on this team. There is no reason why Filppula or even Hudler can't be the 2nd line center.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[betterREDthandead 58]

He hasn't underachieved. Every time he starts getting into a groove and playing great, he gets injured. It's just horrible luck. That's bound to change, and now is the time. It'll be his breakout year and he'll show why he's thought of as being a future star.

Yes, he's underachieved, even his most ardent supporters have to admit that. There's no way he can be said to have played up to the potential he was billed to have. He gives the puck away too often, doesn't always make the best decisions with it, and his offensive production is lacking. Yes, he gets injured a lot. He's missed a lot of games. But he's played a lot, too, and honestly, he hasn't shown much on the ice. He did play 68 games last season - that's most of the year - and registered all of one goal. I think the most telling thing is that he missed the whole playoffs and rarely, if ever, did anyone say, "If only we had Kronwall on the ice, we'd have done better against the Ducks."

Like I said before....I'd love to see what he can do for us in a full 82-game schedule. But even your own words betray the fact that up til now, Kronwall is an underachiever.....you're talking about what he will do versus what he has done. We've been talking up his potential for seven years now. If we're still talking about his potential after this year, then more and more, the discussions will be about wasted potential.

[FinRedWing 172]

In this day and age, Samuelsson is a top line player. You want to have guys who are cheap that can fill out the top 6 who can play in all offensive situations. Samuelsson has been a 20 goal scorer since he got here, had he not gotten injured last year he would've scored 20 goals again, that's about what you should expect from the guy.

There's nothing wrong with Samuelsson on the 2nd line.

You said it yourself in the "Why all the hate for Babcock"-thread :

True, but now it is Zetterberg and Datsyuk with a bunch of 3rd liners.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

True....Sammy cannot make plays for himself or others. Doesn't bring much to the table. But he doesn't take anything off the table either, which is a lot more than can be said for a lot of players out there. The key there is that he's been "enhanced" by the presence of more talented linemates. The alternative is that he detracts from those linemates, which really, he doesn't do. And he doesn't eat up much cap space.

Perfect short and sweet summary of Samuelsson. I'm no slappie of his but the discredit he gets from members in here goes a little bit overboard. He's not going to be your main guy for goal production, but he's not a cancer on the ice and doesn't stink up the joint. As stated, he doesn't take anything off the table.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Yes, he's underachieved, even his most ardent supporters have to admit that. There's no way he can be said to have played up to the potential he was billed to have. He gives the puck away too often, doesn't always make the best decisions with it, and his offensive production is lacking. Yes, he gets injured a lot. He's missed a lot of games. But he's played a lot, too, and honestly, he hasn't shown much on the ice. He did play 68 games last season - that's most of the year - and registered all of one goal. I think the most telling thing is that he missed the whole playoffs and rarely, if ever, did anyone say, "If only we had Kronwall on the ice, we'd have done better against the Ducks."

Like I said before....I'd love to see what he can do for us in a full 82-game schedule. But even your own words betray the fact that up til now, Kronwall is an underachiever.....you're talking about what he will do versus what he has done. We've been talking up his potential for seven years now. If we're still talking about his potential after this year, then more and more, the discussions will be about wasted potential.

I'm going to judge him when he has a full season and playoffs under his belt.

I understand what you are coming from and agree to a point, but I want to see what he can do with 82 plus games, injury free. *hopefully*

I've been a fan of his from the beginning so I may be a bit bias, but the guy constantly gets bashed, and no one ever points out anything good from his game. IMO the only thing stopping him from being as great as he was made out to be is his horrible breaks with injuries. It never fails that every time he's starting to look real good out there, he gets hurt again. That's really all I'm trying to get across.

Edited August 20, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[norrisnick 1]

He ******* blows compared to Cleary, who is not in the top six as of this news.

That's my problem.

Sammy is a junk player who has been enhanced by the play of Z and Dats. Period.

And Cleary wasn't enhanced by Lang? That line went hot November through December (Dan had 27 points in those 27 games), but don't forget that Cleary was ice cold apart from that (13 points in the other 44 games he played). I remember Z giftwrapped Dan's 20th goal on an empty netter because Z knew he had 19 and felt 20 was a nice milestone to hit. That was Feb 2nd. Cleary finished the season with 20 goals...

They each have their roles, and provided they stay cheap they'll stay Wings. But the notion that one is junk and the other not, or that one is a superstar and the other not is just stupid. They're both 2nd/3rd line tweeners. One being more offensively oriented and the other more defensively oriented.

[55fan 5,133]

Re: Kronwall. Lidstrom sees him as his heir to be the next big Swedish dman.

The translation sucks, but here it is:

Question: The best defenceman in NHL's history? Who of Sweden's young defencemen see you as your heir? /Jakob Lagerstedt

Lidstrom: Bobby Orr revolutionized the [position] playing in NHL, he took with himself the puck up from own zone and pressed in full rate. He is the biggest. When it comes to young Swede backs on road up say I Niklas Kronvall. He has all opportunities to become a correct good defenceman.

End quote.

Full article can be found here:

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007/08/li...ng_q_and_a.html

Also interesting is that Nick said he'd be willing to play for under $5000 USD/month. No word yet on the condition of his agent's health after that remark.

For what it's worth, if Lids and Babs see something in Kronwall, I'm excited to see it come to fruition. I'm a bit fond of him.

[Yzerfan75 0]

"Also interesting is that Nick said he'd be willing to play for under $5000 USD/month. No word yet on the condition of his agent's health after that remark."

Edited August 20, 2007 by Yzerfan75