Well, we're a season past Yzerman's retirement

[Opie 308]

Find me one article that supports that argument, I will find you 10 that say he retired because he couldn't live up to his expectations of himself for everyone that you find.

Your opinion is that the team didn't step up and that forced him to retire. What I have seen of Steve Yzerman in the past tells me that if the team around him didn't step up he didn't give up and walk away he played his ass off to make everyone around him better.

His knees were killing him, he almost retired 2-3 times since the 02 cup. Once in the middle of the season. He even planned out the game he would make the announcement (dec 1 of the season after the lockout), it had nothing to do with his teammates.

Now if you are saying not having him on the team cost the team the cup, that is a debatable topic. Saying the team forced him to retire is not factually correct and is not even debatable. He has said why he left, and I see no reason not to believe him.

[Guest Crymson]

Yzerman would've contributed even more than Franzen and Filppula did. Yzerman had very little ice-time in his last season. He really didn't take any away from the young players. Shanny did, but not Yzerman. Zetterberg stepped up in the 2006 playoffs when Yzerman was still on the team. Zetterberg and Yzerman were the Wings top 2 players. I always take Yzerman's comments about himself with a grain of a salt. He's very humble. I still think Yzerman should've played one more year.

How could Yzerman have contributed with such a shattered body? He might not have even made it through another season. Recall that he retired because his knee just couldn't take it anymore.

I'm sure Gordie Howe would love to still play, and he was one of the most talented hockey players of all time--but, like Yzerman, his body can simply no longer handle it (albeit to a greater degree). That's how aging and injuries go.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Crymson

[Guest snowman89]

I completely disagree. I would take Yzerman over any of those young players. His leadership, scoring abilities, and faceoff abilities would've been huge in the playoffs. He always turned it up a notch in the playoffs. Having Hasek instilled confidence in the team. Nobody had any confidence in Legace and rightfully for so. Hasek was a huge upgrade over Legace. Imagine if everyone played the same way with Yzerman in the lineup. There would've been no stopping the Wings.

I know everyone thinks the reason the Wings did so much better in the playoffs was because the Wings finally got rid of Yzerman, but I don't agree with that logic. It was the huge upgrade in goaltending that made the difference. How do you guys know we wouldn't have went even farther with Yzerman? Because some stupid article in ESPN said the team was better off without Yzerman? That was article was complete BS. Yzerman was one of our best players in the playoffs in his last season. He probably would've been one of our top players in the playoffs again this year too. Think about it. The guys number is hanging in the rafters. Why do you guys think that is? It's not because the team is better off without him. Yzerman says it's up there because of his teammates and the great teams he played on. If the team is/would've been so much better without him like everyone here seems to think then should it even be up there?

Once again I say obviously you have no Idea about sports, or how any thing works.. Why don't you find that article about the Wings being better off not having Yzerman, I will be you 1 million dollars that the writer never disrespects Yzerman for any of his accomplishments at ALL! To a certain extent they will be better off without Yzerman, the other Team members will find it harder to learn and step up to be the Vocal Leaders with him still there.

His number is in the rafters because he has been GREAT for 20+ years, that does not mean that he is still great! So you are saying that if we brought back Gordie Howe the wings would have won the cup? That is exactly what you are saying....

That isn't THE MAIN REASON, and nobody is slighting or insulting Yzerman in any way, shape, or form. I think it's a safe bet to say the fan in every one of us wishes he was still out on the ice. We would have all been happy I think if he played another year. But you have to ask yourself, and be serious. What more did Yzerman have left to prove? He won 3 Cups. His body must have gone through hell and back his last few seasons, pain that none of us are even going to come close to having a clue about in our lifetime. Again, Yzerman himself said he had little else to offer the team at the end of his career. It sucks that pretty much any good thing has to come to an end, but it was time to hang up the skates, in HIS opinion, not just some of our opinions.

You are correct!

Find me one article that supports that argument, I will find you 10 that say he retired because he couldn't live up to his expectations of himself for everyone that you find.

Your opinion is that the team didn't step up and that forced him to retire. What I have seen of Steve Yzerman in the past tells me that if the team around him didn't step up he didn't give up and walk away he played his ass off to make everyone around him better.

His knees were killing him, he almost retired 2-3 times since the 02 cup. Once in the middle of the season. He even planned out the game he would make the announcement (dec 1 of the season after the lockout), it had nothing to do with his teammates.

Now if you are saying not having him on the team cost the team the cup, that is a debatable topic. Saying the team forced him to retire is not factually correct and is not even debatable. He has said why he left, and I see no reason not to believe him.

Thank You for addressing that topic as well, I meant to add that in my reply, I agree 100%

[Guest Yzer19]

So you guys are saying that a 42 year old Yzerman is equivalent to a 79 year old Gordie Howe? I've always wanted Yzerman to be right up there with Gordie as one of the greatest Wings ever, but not like that. I guess I just didn't think Yzerman played all that poorly in 05-06. He started off slow, but in the second half I was really impressed with his play. He had the longest scoring streak out of any Red Wing player. I think that Yzerman would've really helped the Wings in the playoffs in 06-07.

snowman89, just writing that article was disrespectful to Yzerman. He was very insulted by it.

I do think part of the problem is many Wings fans have forgotten what Yzerman brought to the team and how good he was in the playoffs even on 1 leg. Of he course he wouldn't have been the young Yzerman of 97 and 98, but he still would've been a decent player that would've been beneficial to the team.

[Guest snowman89]

So you guys are saying that a 42 year old Yzerman is equivalent to a 79 year old Gordie Howe? I've always wanted Yzerman to be right up there with Gordie as one of the greatest Wings ever, but not like that. I guess I just didn't think Yzerman played all that poorly in 05-06. He started off slow, but in the second half I was really impressed with his play. He had the longest scoring streak out of any Red Wing player. I think that Yzerman would've really helped the Wings in the playoffs in 06-07.

snowman89, just writing that article was disrespectful to Yzerman. He was very insulted by it.

I do think part of the problem is many Wings fans have forgotten what Yzerman brought to the team and how good he was in the playoffs even on 1 leg. Of he course he wouldn't have been the young Yzerman of 97 and 98, but he still would've been a decent player that would've been beneficial to the team.

Do you have proof that he was very insulted? Do you have the article the "ESPN Writer" wrote?

I doubt that Steve Yzerman pays attention to the media enough for that even to bother him.

If you dont think, I or any of remember how much of a part Steve Yzerman was a part of those teams, you are extremely naive and trying to make excuses to support your opinion.

It is your opinion and I suppose you can have it, I just think you are little mis-informed with the feelings of the Steve Yzerman regarding his retirement.

[Opie 308]

Do you have proof that he was very insulted? Do you have the article the "ESPN Writer" wrote?

I doubt that Steve Yzerman pays attention to the media enough for that even to bother him.

If you dont think, I or any of remember how much of a part Steve Yzerman was a part of those teams, you are extremely naive and trying to make excuses to support your opinion.

It is your opinion and I suppose you can have it, I just think you are little mis-informed with the feelings of the Steve Yzerman regarding his retirement.

^^^^^ Could not agree with you more, even if i tried.

If anyone doubts why he left or how he felt when making the decision to leave read "The Captain".

[WingsZR2 1]

I'm sorry but I remember all too well how great Yzerman was in the playoffs and how he always stepped it up even with his injuries. I just happen to think that having a great player like Yzerman there would've really helped the team.

BTW SouthernWingsFan, what does Chelios or Lidstrom or Hasek have left to prove? Nothing at all, but yet they are still playing. Those guys have more awards and have accomplished a lot more than Yzerman. Apparently Yzerman had a lot to prove.

Stevie Y had nothing left to prove, his name is engraved on Lord Stanley 3 times, he also has himself a nice gold medal. I don't knock you for your memories of how Stevie stepped up in the playoffs, we are aware of that.

I would've loved to see Yzerman go out like Messier did. You do realize that Messier went out as tbe #2 scorer of all-time behind only Gretzky. He also is considered one of the top 15 greatest hockey players of all-time and most consider him the best captain of all-time. I would've preferred Yzerman to go out like that then the way he did. Yzerman is #6 in all-time points, he's barely in the top 40 players of all-time, and now everyone is saying the team is better off without Yzerman. That definitely was not a good way for Yzerman to go out.

Yzerman left the game as one of the most respected players in NHL history, not just by the team he played for or the city he restored to glory, the entire NHL. There was no need for him to drag out his career for stats, that's not how Stevie played. He never took credit for a damn thing, always said it was because of the people he played with.

If all those things couldn't have happend with Yzerman on the team then maybe those players and the coach just aren't all that great. A great player, leader, and a great coach is great no matter who they have on the team. Those guys were all very selfish for not stepping up while Yzerman was here and waiting until he left. Their failure to step with Yzerman on the team, forcing Yzerman to walk away last summer, cost us a Stanley Cup.

So you blame the current roster for his retirement? Not the countless injuries he suffered causing him to have a surgery so radical that it had never been performed on anyone younger than 70? You blame them because he chose to be able to walk his daughters down the aisle rather than risk never being able to walk again.

Yzerman's teammates basically forced him to retire by not stepping up while he was on the team.

Where was Lidstrom in the 05-06 playoffs? He was terrible. He was on ice for just about every single Edmonton goal. Zetterberg and Yzerman were really the only two players that showed up for the 05-06 playoffs.

I'm sure they all sat around before game 1 against the Oil and said "Hey lets lose this series and maybe we can force Steve to retire."

[Guest jaytan]

Does anyone else feel the same way--that we've grown so much since last offseason, so much that perhaps the Yzerman days seem like a distant memory already?

That's a bit blasphemous, don'tcha think?

This team will never be able to capture the fans' hearts they way Yzerman's team could. I really miss those days. Maybe eventually, a group will come along that will connect with us like that, but Yzerman was much too special to forget about in one year.

[Yzermania19 1]

OMG I cannot believe we're even having this discussion...

The reason Stevie retired is not because anyone "forced" him to...he retired because he physically couldn't take another season of pro hockey, playing at the level he felt he needed to play at to be successful. Period. He retired because it was time for him to do so.

As for that article that said Stevie nearly retired in December of 2005, that has since come out as a fact. The only reason he didn't retire then was Robert Lang got injured and Ken Holland asked Stevie to postpone his retirement until Lang came back. Stevie started to get more ice time and feel better, so he decided to stick around for the season. Heck, he could have called it quits three years earlier when he had that radical knee surgery. We got three bonus seasons of Stevie! Anything after 01-02 was icing on the cake.

Stevie just couldn't do it anymore - he was constantly in pain from his knees, his neck, his back - so he stepped aside to let the next generation take over. He recognized that his time had passed. Why can't you just accept the fact that he had enough grace and class to call it a career before he became a sad shadow of his former self?

[Guest jaytan]

'Yzerman should have bionic legs installed so he can play ten more years!'

That's actually the best idea I've come across all day. In fact, I think I can improve upon it:

Look, if some Japanese guys at Honda can make a running robot that's small and fuel-efficient, I see no reason the Big Three can't make a big, tough, kick-ass skating cyborg out of Steve Yzerman and some auto parts. We can even bring back Gordie Howe!

We just have to put Stevie's brain in the robot's helmet.

[Guest snowman89]

Stevie Y had nothing left to prove, his name is engraved on Lord Stanley 3 times, he also has himself a nice gold medal. I don't knock you for your memories of how Stevie stepped up in the playoffs, we are aware of that.

Yzerman left the game as one of the most respected players in NHL history, not just by the team he played for or the city he restored to glory, the entire NHL. There was no need for him to drag out his career for stats, that's not how Stevie played. He never took credit for a damn thing, always said it was because of the people he played with.

So you blame the current roster for his retirement? Not the countless injuries he suffered causing him to have a surgery so radical that it had never been performed on anyone younger than 70? You blame them because he chose to be able to walk his daughters down the aisle rather than risk never being able to walk again.

I'm sure they all sat around before game 1 against the Oil and said "Hey lets lose this series and maybe we can force Steve to retire."

TRUE STORY

OMG I cannot believe we're even having this discussion...

The reason Stevie retired is not because anyone "forced" him to...he retired because he physically couldn't take another season of pro hockey, playing at the level he felt he needed to play at to be successful. Period. He retired because it was time for him to do so.

As for that article that said Stevie nearly retired in December of 2005, that has since come out as a fact. The only reason he didn't retire then was Robert Lang got injured and Ken Holland asked Stevie to postpone his retirement until Lang came back. Stevie started to get more ice time and feel better, so he decided to stick around for the season. Heck, he could have called it quits three years earlier when he had that radical knee surgery. We got three bonus seasons of Stevie! Anything after 01-02 was icing on the cake.

Stevie just couldn't do it anymore - he was constantly in pain from his knees, his neck, his back - so he stepped aside to let the next generation take over. He recognized that his time had passed. Why can't you just accept the fact that he had enough grace and class to call it a career before he became a sad shadow of his former self?

TRUE STORY!

[wingslogo19 281]

I miss Stevie

[Hiei 192]

One thing I always wanted to do before I died: Stand in net and face HIM.

Captain Steve, SIR!

[betterREDthandead 58]

I completely disagree. I would take Yzerman over any of those young players. His leadership, scoring abilities, and faceoff abilities would've been huge in the playoffs. He always turned it up a notch in the playoffs. Having Hasek instilled confidence in the team. Nobody had any confidence in Legace and rightfully for so. Hasek was a huge upgrade over Legace. Imagine if everyone played the same way with Yzerman in the lineup. There would've been no stopping the Wings.

I know everyone things the reason the Wings did so much better in the playoffs was because the Wings finally got rid of Yzerman, but I don't agree with that logic. It was the huge upgrade in goaltending that made the difference. How do you guys know we wouldn't have went even farther with Yzerman? Because some stupid article in ESPN said the team was better off without Yzerman? That was article was complete BS. Yzerman was one of our best players in the playoffs in his last season. He probably would've been one of our top players in the playoffs again this year too. Think about it. The guys number is hanging in the rafters. Why do you guys think that is? It's not because the team is better off without him. Yzerman says it's up there because of his teammates and the great teams he played on. If the team is/would've been so much better without him like everyone here seems to think then should it even be up there?

By your logic, Yzerman should keep playing til he's 80. Unfortunately, what he accomplished when he was 28 or 32 has no bearing on what he can accomplish now. What did he do in '05-'06 that convinced you he could repeat or improve on that in '06-'07? This isn't about what happened in 2002, or 1997, or 1986. It's about 2007. And the 2007 Yzerman would have been a worse player than the 2006 Yzerman, who wasn't as good as the 2004 Yzerman, and so on. It's not a a knock on Stevie. It's what happens when hockey players who have been playing on iffy knees most of their career reach a breaking point.

[Yzermania19 1]

By your logic, Yzerman should keep playing til he's 80. Unfortunately, what he accomplished when he was 28 or 32 has no bearing on what he can accomplish now. What did he do in '05-'06 that convinced you he could repeat or improve on that in '06-'07? This isn't about what happened in 2002, or 1997, or 1986. It's about 2007. And the 2007 Yzerman would have been a worse player than the 2006 Yzerman, who wasn't as good as the 2004 Yzerman, and so on. It's not a a knock on Stevie. It's what happens when hockey players who have been playing on iffy knees most of their career reach a breaking point.

Absolutely. I mean, in every professional athlete's career, there comes a time when his body can no longer handle the daily rigors of his sport and he has to retire. For some it comes earlier than others, and still others seem to be able to carry on well past an age when most of his contemporaries are long since done (Chelios, for example).

As good as he was, Steve had declining skills for a few years before he retired. He knew this. He knows his own body better than anyone else and I for one am not going to second guess him when he says his body can no longer handle the day to day physicality of being an NHL player. If Stevie was forced to retire by anything, it was by his own body. The fact that he was able to come back and play for three seasons on those knees, particularly the right knee, is nothing short of incredible. His sheer will and determination to make a return to the ice after the osteotomy is to be applauded and was rewarded with the Masterton trophy.

Do I miss Stevie? Hell yes I do. I'm one of the biggest Yzerman fans around...I miss him terribly. It is still strange for me to see Nick with the C and to hear the lineup announced with no #19. I wish he was still playing, but that is me being selfish. I know in my heart he made the right decision for himself. No one made it for him or forced him to make it.

No one is trying to diminish anything Stevie did for the team nor are they trying to forget about him. His banner is hanging at the Joe for all to see...when you see it, it brings back all those good memories of the wonderful things he did for the franchise, none of which will ever be forgotten. Steve Yzerman was one of the greatest players of his era and while he didn't get the league-wide recognition he deserved during his career, those of us here in Detroit will never forget the wonderful years he pulled on that Winged Wheel sweater night after night and gave 150% of himself to the team.

There is a reason he is the only Wing whose retired number banner has a C on it. It is because he was, is and always will be The Captain.

[Guest Yzer19]

Do you have proof that he was very insulted? Do you have the article the "ESPN Writer" wrote?

I doubt that Steve Yzerman pays attention to the media enough for that even to bother him.

If you dont think, I or any of remember how much of a part Steve Yzerman was a part of those teams, you are extremely naive and trying to make excuses to support your opinion.

It is your opinion and I suppose you can have it, I just think you are little mis-informed with the feelings of the Steve Yzerman regarding his retirement.

I don't have the ESPN article. The reason I think Yzerman was insulted by it was the comments Yzerman made in an interview and the tone of his voice in response of the article.

Stevie Y had nothing left to prove, his name is engraved on Lord Stanley 3 times, he also has himself a nice gold medal. I don't knock you for your memories of how Stevie stepped up in the playoffs, we are aware of that.

Yzerman left the game as one of the most respected players in NHL history, not just by the team he played for or the city he restored to glory, the entire NHL. There was no need for him to drag out his career for stats, that's not how Stevie played. He never took credit for a damn thing, always said it was because of the people he played with.

So you blame the current roster for his retirement? Not the countless injuries he suffered causing him to have a surgery so radical that it had never been performed on anyone younger than 70? You blame them because he chose to be able to walk his daughters down the aisle rather than risk never being able to walk again.

I'm sure they all sat around before game 1 against the Oil and said "Hey lets lose this series and maybe we can force Steve to retire."

Saying Yzerman had nothing left to prove is just not true. He needed to prove that he wasn't just a washed up has been that was hurting the team and holding them back. Lidstrom, Chelios, and Hasek have nothing left to prove yet they can play as long as they want on the Wings, but Yzerman couldn't. Those 3 players have won more awards and have all arguably have had better careers than Yzerman. They should retire too. Yzerman left the game as player that his team was better off without or at least that is what everyone seems to think now. I blame Yzerman's teammates because they all played like garbage in the 05-06 playoffs with the exception of Zetterberg. They made Yzerman, management, and the fans think that Yzerman was the problem when that wasn't the case. It was his terrible teammates that were the problem.

That's a bit blasphemous, don'tcha think?

This team will never be able to capture the fans' hearts they way Yzerman's team could. I really miss those days. Maybe eventually, a group will come along that will connect with us like that, but Yzerman was much too special to forget about in one year.

I agree that's blasphemous. Yzerman played for 22 years and after 1 year of his retirement he should be a forgotten distant memory? I don't think so. When Chelios, Lidstrom, and Hasek retire it will be easy for me to forget about them before the next season even starts, but not Yzerman. I don't care if he wasn't as good them or if he wasn't as valuable to the team. That's not important to me. I appreciate his class, loyalty, and the 150% effort he always gave. I am thankful that I got to see Yzerman play with the Wings for his entire career and the memories will never be distant for me.

By your logic, Yzerman should keep playing til he's 80. Unfortunately, what he accomplished when he was 28 or 32 has no bearing on what he can accomplish now. What did he do in '05-'06 that convinced you he could repeat or improve on that in '06-'07? This isn't about what happened in 2002, or 1997, or 1986. It's about 2007. And the 2007 Yzerman would have been a worse player than the 2006 Yzerman, who wasn't as good as the 2004 Yzerman, and so on. It's not a a knock on Stevie. It's what happens when hockey players who have been playing on iffy knees most of their career reach a breaking point.

The reason I thought Yzerman could've still played was his strong performance in the second half of the season and the playoffs. If not for a cheapshot in the playoffs by one of the Edmonton Oiler players, he would've been healthy. I was really impressed with Yzerman's 11 game scoring streak. I really enjoyed watching him rack up the points and I wanted to see him pick up where he left off in 06.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Yzerman's teammates basically forced him to retire by not stepping up while he was on the team.

What? This logic makes no sense considering Yzerman had said that if the wings had won the cup in 05/06 that he would have retired, going out in the same way Scotty did.

[Guest Yzer19]

What? This logic makes no sense considering Yzerman had said that if the wings had won the cup in 05/06 that he would have retired, going out in the same way Scotty did.

Actually it makes perfect sense. If the Wings had won the cup in 05-06 then Yzerman would've at least went out as a Stanley Cup Champion. It would've been impossible for the new players to top that. Had Yzerman's teammates actually shown up in the playoffs and made it to the WCF before getting knocked then Yzerman probably would've came back and played since they were so close to winning. Unfortunately that didn't happen and the Wings got knocked out in the first round. Yzerman was blamed for his teammates failures and ended up being forced to retire because of it. Of course in the following season his former teammates convienently decide to show up in the playoffs and make it seem like Yzerman was the problem all along, when in reality they were the problem, not Yzerman.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Yzer19

[eva unit zero 271]

Yzerman was blamed for his teammates failures and ended up being forced to retire because of it. Of course in the following season his former teammates convienently decide to show up in the playoffs and make it seem like Yzerman was the problem all along, when in reality they were the problem, not Yzerman.

Yzerman was never blamed for the Wings' loss to Edmonton. Most of blame fell on Legace and a to a lesser extent Datsyuk. The last time anyone said anything negative regarding Yzerman's ability to win in the playoffs was the early 90s.

One thing in your comments that seems paradoxical...you keep saying that Yzerman's teammates didn't show up, blamed him, and then showed up after he left to make it look like he was the problem. If they harbored that much resentment towards him that they would 'frame' him, maybe he WAS the problem? Of course, I don't think that's what happened...but it's what you keep suggesting. The fact that you are angry the team did well this year without Yzerman shows me that you are a fan of the individual, but not the team.

[Guest snowman89]

Actually it makes perfect sense. If the Wings had won the cup in 05-06 then Yzerman would've at least went out as a Stanley Cup Champion. It would've been impossible for the new players to top that. Had Yzerman's teammates actually shown up in the playoffs and made it to the WCF before getting knocked then Yzerman probably would've came back and played since they were so close to winning. Unfortunately that didn't happen and the Wings got knocked out in the first round. Yzerman was blamed for his teammates failures and ended up being forced to retire because of it. Of course in the following season his former teammates convienently decide to show up in the playoffs and make it seem like Yzerman was the problem all along, when in reality they were the problem, not Yzerman.

That fact that you keep coming back to this is SAD, this never happened and you are creating falsities attempting to support your agruement. I might even give your arguement a little more support if you could find anyone else that believed your dilusional reasons for Yzerman retiring. All of us miss Yzerman, I am sure I am not the only one here that shed a tear listening to Yzermans retirement press conference on July 4th 2006, but things must move on.

With that I am done with this thread, you obviously cant be swayed from your opinion, Ive done my best, have a nice day!

[Guest Yzer19]

That fact that you keep coming back to this is SAD, this never happened and you are creating falsities attempting to support your agruement. I might even give your arguement a little more support if you could find anyone else that believed your dilusional reasons for Yzerman retiring. All of us miss Yzerman, I am sure I am not the only one here that shed a tear listening to Yzermans retirement press conference on July 4th 2006, but things must move on.

With that I am done with this thread, you obviously cant be swayed from your opinion, Ive done my best, have a nice day!

Fine, I will let it go. I will admit that only Yzerman knows the real reason that he retired. I am done with this topic and any other Yzerman related topic. You guys are right that it's time to move on and the only way for me to do that is to stay away and forget the past.

[Guest jaytan]

Frankly, he I really ought to have gone out as a double-champion with a few nasty nagging injuries in '02, but I'm glad we got a few more years with him.

[evil204 4]

From Free Press article about Zumaya coming back:

"At last, he is poised to return tonight. There hasn't been as much anticipation for a Detroit athlete's comeback since Steve Yzerman, after radical knee surgery, stepped on the ice for the Red Wings in February 2003."

Cool, someone still remembers Yzerman

[Guest snowman89]

From Free Press article about Zumaya coming back:

"At last, he is poised to return tonight. There hasn't been as much anticipation for a Detroit athlete's comeback since Steve Yzerman, after radical knee surgery, stepped on the ice for the Red Wings in February 2003."

Cool, someone still remembers Yzerman

LOL

[Spongewingredpants 75]

as bad as its sounds..its almost ancient history to me

edit: spelling, removed anger, disappointment and lazy Lang reference, added a couple of consonants

Edited August 21, 2007 by Spongewingredpants