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theman19

man do i miss stuff like this,....

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Don't remind me of how much I miss fighting.

That was pure entertainment at it's finest. Vladdy and Lazaro was a great one, but Probert and Quintal was the best. I'm surprised Quintal could even stand after the first punch Probert threw at him.

Sigh... how I miss seeing fights like those. Bring them back.

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wings brawl between the bruins early 90's. Complete bench clearing brawl. Check out Big Bad Vlad beat the snot out of some poor schmuck. Soft Euro my butt.

You know I like fighting as much as the next guy... but we probably lost that game because of the brawl and those no talent goons.

Matter of fact we should ban checking too...

just kidding, good fight.

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Guest micah
Check out Big Bad Vlad beat the snot out of some poor schmuck. Soft Euro my butt.

Vlad was an awful fighter. Got lucky here.

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Guest jaytan

Yeah, I really can't stand the softserve style of "hockey" the Wings play now. All we've really got now is youtube and video tapes.

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I am growing tired of the argument that because the wings do not have a fighter/enforcer they do not stand up for each other.

Last year Z got in some scraps and scrums (not fights), Homer jumped in to get guys off of Z's back. Other guys did it too. Because no one goes out and beats the s*** out of a guy like Probie used to do, does not mean that these guys do not stand up for each other or that they do not have each other's back.

Fighting (a part of the game I like a lot) is being ushered out of the game by Gary Bettman. I do not agree with it, but it is a fact, hence the instigator rule.

Honestly whom and what would you have liked some one on the team do to last year to Pronger on the hit to Holmstrom?

Before you answer that think of the consequences of the actions. Even if the wings have a guy like Probie, Kocur, Hartnell, or Laroque. That team is now down a player, more than likely for the rest of the series as well as the game. Short changing the wings for the remainder of the game taxing guy guys by making them cover an extra shift. Plus Pronger probably doesn't get suspended ( the only reason he got one game, was because there was no penalty called on him), the ducks now have the upper hand.

Fighting was a great part of the game, it is no more, well that is the way the league is heading, imo!

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"And the whole fight was renewed by Yzerman threatening Lazarro" (sp?)

The announcer was at rink level standing right next to Yzerman listening to what he was saying!

That's not homerism that's just being a good commentator <_<

Edited by wingnut1914

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"I am growing tired of the argument that because the wings do not have a fighter/enforcer they do not stand up for each other.

Last year Z got in some scraps and scrums (not fights), Homer jumped in to get guys off of Z's back"

Haha you cannot be serious. Not only do the wings not have a fighter/enforcer but they are arguably the softest NHL team ever assembled. "Z got in some scraps and scrums", you obviously watch a lot of hockey, I mean I am sitting here speechless at this comment and am just going to have to leave it like that. Now as for the video, all i can say is f*ing classic, that is real NHL puck. Not the watered down United States "i have been watching the wings for 2 years now and am an expert on all that is holy regarding hockey and its historical fabric" or the euro style proponents who believe that the shootout was gods gift to the nhl, but real NHL hockey. Sh*t, a lot of the ppl here need to take a lil listen to Don Cherry, I hear him getting bashed around here a ton and find it comical being as thoughthe guy has forgotten more about hockey then any of us could ever wish to know.

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So what you are telling me is that none of the wings stand up for each other or have each other's backs because they do not have a fighter or enforcer.

Correct??

Edited by Opie

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So what you are telling me is that none of the wings stand up for each other or have each other's backs because they do not have a fighter or enforcer.

Correct??

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Wings have just about the fewest penalty minutes in the league last year, as well as the fewest fights? I think thats pretty solid evidence of a lack of a fighter or an enforcer.

Also, I don't remember anyone having Homer's back when he was blindsided by Niedermayer and Pronger. Or Lebda when he was sucker-punched against Calgary. In fact, the only retaliation that I can think of the entire year is Todd Bertuzzi after Franzen was hacked in the first round, and even that wasn't a fight. And he's gone now.

edit: I just love this commentator's favoritism. All these excuses about being too tired to fight

Edited by Echolalia

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Wings have just about the fewest penalty minutes in the league last year, as well as the fewest fights? I think thats pretty solid evidence of a lack of a fighter or an enforcer.

Also, I don't remember anyone having Homer's back when he was blindsided by Niedermayer and Pronger. Or Lebda when he was sucker-punched against Calgary. In fact, the only retaliation that I can think of the entire year is Todd Bertuzzi after Franzen was hacked in the first round, and even that wasn't a fight. And he's gone now.

edit: I just love this commentator's favoritism. All these excuses about being too tired to fight

I never said we had an enforcer, in fact in the first post I made that you quoted I specifically said we don't have one, and I never called Zetterberg a fighter. You jumped to conclusions and did not read my post thoroughly enough.

Here is an example of what I was talking about.

On the ice the wings have: Lids, Schnieder (for example in this exercise we will use last years roster), Z, Dats, and Homer A scrap or a scrum (not a fight) starts in front of the net and Homer is being pushed around and shoved. Are you telling me that every single Red Wing's player skates off the ice and leaves Homer to be abused. I am telling you that I saw Zetterberg get in there and help his teammate. Showing he had his back.

There is a difference between standing up for your teammate and exacting revenge.

Speaking of exacting revenge I posed a question in my first post, who and what would you have liked to see done after the Pronger/Holmstrom incident? Using the same roster that was there in that game.

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Guest DetroitIan

That was beautiful. Despite the overwhelming bias from the Boston annoucers. I remember watching that game with my dad. In fact, one of the earliest games I remember, cause I had never seen an all out brawl yet at that point. I will always miss those days. Well, atleast we got the memories for all time. I wish those days would have never ended. Maybe one day....maybe...

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I never said we had an enforcer, in fact in the first post I made that you quoted I specifically said we don't have one, and I never called Zetterberg a fighter. You jumped to conclusions and did not read my post thoroughly enough.

Slow down, big guy. You actually didn't specifically say we didn't have an enforcer in the post that I quoted, and I never even mentioned Zetterberg. I believe sticknmove is your man if you want to discuss that.

Here is an example of what I was talking about.

On the ice the wings have: Lids, Schnieder (for example in this exercise we will use last years roster), Z, Dats, and Homer A scrap or a scrum (not a fight) starts in front of the net and Homer is being pushed around and shoved. Are you telling me that every single Red Wing's player skates off the ice and leaves Homer to be abused. I am telling you that I saw Zetterberg get in there and help his teammate. Showing he had his back.

There is a difference between standing up for your teammate and exacting revenge.

Speaking of exacting revenge I posed a question in my first post, who and what would you have liked to see done after the Pronger/Holmstrom incident? Using the same roster that was there in that game.

I believe the general consensus from those that miss this kind of enforcing the link displays (including myself) is that we are lacking an enforcer/fighter to handle such situations as in the Pronger incident. Nobody really expects our current roster to drop the gloves and dive into a brawl, so the problem doesn't lie in what I would want the current players to do, so much as who can we pick up thats appropriately fitted for handing these little mishaps. If we had an enforcer who took on Pronger and put him in his place; yes he would get suspended as well as Pronger, but hes an enforcer, not a scorer, we aren't loosing much. Its his job to stick up for the team like that. Besides, I recall that the Ducks beat us without Pronger anyway. If anything, having an enforcer who jumps into fights to stick up for teammates will give our guys some extra jump in their step.

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I am growing tired of the argument that because the wings do not have a fighter/enforcer they do not stand up for each other.

Notice I said "because the wings do not have..."

An enforcers job is to stick up for players by exacting revenge, correct?

That is my point, yes the team surely could have used a fighter/enforcer I am not disagreeing with that.

My problem lies in the choice of words. People make it sound like (I guess read like) the players do not stand up for each other because no one gets in a fight.

So lets say the wings traded for Hartnell at the trade deadline, he fights Pronger and they lose him for the next game, now the same roster is back out there to lose the next game.

The wings did not lose the series to the ducks because of a lack of an enforcer, or because Pronger hit Holmstrom.

The wings lost because the pp was atrocious!!!!!!

Slow down, big guy.

I am not all excited or fiery about this, I thought we were having a discussion about this, sorry if my typing led you to believe otherwise, I was actually looking forward to debating this, not flaming each other.

Edit: Sorry I did confuse the two posts, yours and stick and moves.

Edited by Opie

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Guest jaytan

Speaking of exacting revenge I posed a question in my first post, who and what would you have liked to see done after the Pronger/Holmstrom incident? Using the same roster that was there in that game.

Big Bert skates up to Pronger and eggs him on, trying to provoke a fight. Sissy Chrissy Pronger repeatedly shrugs off these advances, meanwhile looking for a chance to take Pavel Datsyuk out of the game with a well-angled elbow to the top of his head. Finally, Todd's had enough. He blindsides Pronger and nails the big wuss into the boards. Unfortunately for Donger, those extra three inches he has on Big Bert add up to a career-ending injury. Bertuzzi is banned from the league for life, retiring as a Stanley Cup-winning Red Wing and celebrated as hero in Detroit, though he is never given the opportunity to sign a big contract with Brian Burke in the off-season. Wanting to join the defending champs, however, Ryan Smyth, Chris Drury and Brian Rafalski are signed to very reasonable contracts and join Detroit.

I think that would have worked out just fine.

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The Wings had the fewest fighting majors and PIM in general last year in the entire league. Softserve hockey indeed, which is one of the many reasons why the Wings don't get much respect (other than of course playing in a weak division).

But, things will never change anytime soon. Ken Holland firmly believes that toughness is no longer needed on this team, which is proof in the signings he makes.

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The Wings had the fewest fighting majors and PIM in general last year in the entire league. Softserve hockey indeed, which is one of the many reasons why the Wings don't get much respect (other than of course playing in a weak division).

But, things will never change anytime soon. Ken Holland firmly believes that toughness is no longer needed on this team, which is proof in the signings he makes.

Not your definition of toughness at least.

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Not your definition of toughness at least.

Oho, here he goes again!

So I assume this would be argument #1000 that I've had with you about toughness. Or have we already passed that mark? I wouldn't be surprised if we did.

Now: since you seem to disagree, please tell me why. If you think the Wings are plenty tough enough, then explain your reasoning. I've already explained my reasoning why their not numerous times, so let's hear your side of the story.

...and yes, fighting does count as a big part of having a tough team. Even the willingness to know that someone will counts. The Wings don't even have that.

The sad thing with this current team is that not only the management, but also many of the fans are content with having Lilja as our best fighter. Do I even have to say anything else?

Thank you. Finally someone who get's it.

I can't believe the amount of fans who don't even care about the issue at all. You know, it's not too much to ask that we have at least one fighter that could the the #13 forward, that would be in the lineup for games that it will get very rough, like against Anaheim. A fighter for the #13 spot is better utuilized then some scrub who does nothing at all (hint: Kopecky).

The Wings don't need to be cavement on skates, but at least one guy who will fight would be nice. It would be better using a roster spot or extra space then for someone who doesn't do anything (hint again: Kopecky).

Edited by Kp-Wings

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Oho, here he goes again!

So I assume this would be argument #1000 that I've had with you about toughness. Or have we already passed that mark? I wouldn't be surprised if we did.

Now: since you seem to disagree, please tell me why. If you think the Wings are plenty tough enough, then explain your reasoning. I've already explained my reasoning why their not numerous times, so let's hear your side of the story.

...and yes, fighting does count as a big part of having a tough team. Even the willingness to know that someone will counts. The Wings don't even have that.

I've given my position, if you don't remember go back to the earlier threads.

I feel toughness has more to do with being able to take a check, going into danger zones and playing through injuries than fighting, the Wings displayed all of those qualities last year in the playoffs. Don't bother making a long winded response though, I'm not going to do this again.

Edited by Heaton

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