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The Hockey News Top 50 current players


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#41 Mickeyisms Rule!

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 03:04 PM

Bleh I just realized I should wake up completely before posting indignant statements.

Edited by Mickeyisms Rule!, 27 August 2007 - 03:07 PM.


#42 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 03:12 PM

You guys are kinda getting off topic. Isn't the list just considering their current talent level? Not how many years left or how much they are going to improve/degrade over the next couple years. Regardless there should be a different list for forwards, defence and goalies. Comparing apples and oranges.
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#43 HuntsVegas Baby

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 03:54 PM

QUOTE(GordieSid&Ted @ August 27, 2007 - 11:39AM) View Post

Well, Brodeur is likely going down as the best goaltender ever when he's done. Maybe they're giving Luongo props because Marty is 35 and Luongo is only 28.

I remember when Luongo was a free agent and some people were bashing him as unproven and hadn't ever played in the playoffs and whatnot. Which was funny because they didn't seem to take into account how terrible of a team he played behind in FL. Hell, you put the guy on a playoff caliber team and he nearly wins 50 games last year. Add in a .921 save percentage and I think he proved what he could do. Although Brodeur's numbers were still ridiculous last year proving he's still the best. At least I agree with the list that he's the best but given their age differences, I think Luongo obviously has more game left in him. And as for the playoffs, he did get them to the 2nd round in his first playoffs ever so I think he showed he's got the mental toughness to only get better. Marty is still #1 in my book though.

When did Brodeur play for "bad" teams? He took over the starting job in 1993 I believe. Since then the Devils have played 13 seasons in which they made the playoffs 12 times and won 3 Stanley Cups? Where exactly did he play on a bad team?

Kipper has only been the started for about 2 1/2 seasons in Calgary in which they've made the playoffs all 3 years including the Cup finals in 04 when he took over the starting job. When did he play on a bad team? Was it in San Jose where he was the backup for 2 years? The Sharks were a playoff team during his time there but had an abysmal 03 campaign, afterwhich they've never missed the playoffs.

As for Giggy, he's been the started for about 5 years now. I wouldn't call the Ducks teams he has been on bad. The 02 team wasn't great. But they went to the Cup finals the year after that. They then missed the playoffs inexplicably the next season, following that up with a trip to the Conference Finals and then winning the Cup last year.

None of these guys has played on teams as piss poor as Florida has been. How bad has Florida been? They Panthers have been to the playoffs only 2 times in the past 10 years and both of those were before Luongo's time. Oh yeah, and before that he played a year for the Islanders who were also terrible.

slam and dunk!


Ok Maybe I didn't clarify my response.
Brodeur should be ahead of Luongo because he has three cups. Oh and the Luongo getting 47 wins last year at 28yo, will Brodeur got 48 at 35yo. Advantage Broduer

Giggy's bad temas 01/02 Ducks 29-42-8 (JSG 20-25-6) & 03/04 Ducks 29-35-10 (JSG 17-31-6). But Giggy has two Finals apperances and one Cup. Advantage Giguere

Kipper I may agree with the bad teams thing, but he has a Stanley Finals Appearence and Luongo has a second round apperance. Advantage Even.

I am not saying Loungo may not be good one day, or even great, just let the earn it before throwing him a crown.

Edited by HuntsVegas Baby, 27 August 2007 - 03:55 PM.


#44 Son of a Wing

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 04:44 PM

QUOTE(HuntsVegas Baby @ August 27, 2007 - 04:54PM) View Post

Ok Maybe I didn't clarify my response.
Brodeur should be ahead of Luongo because he has three cups. Oh and the Luongo getting 47 wins last year at 28yo, will Brodeur got 48 at 35yo. Advantage Broduer

Giggy's bad temas 01/02 Ducks 29-42-8 (JSG 20-25-6) & 03/04 Ducks 29-35-10 (JSG 17-31-6). But Giggy has two Finals apperances and one Cup. Advantage Giguere

Kipper I may agree with the bad teams thing, but he has a Stanley Finals Appearence and Luongo has a second round apperance. Advantage Even.

I am not saying Loungo may not be good one day, or even great, just let the earn it before throwing him a crown.


Thats great and all but it has nothing to do with the topic. Sakic WAS better than alot of thos forwards but not anymore. He's still elite but is past his peak. Luongo is just entering his prime which is why it is a solid arguement that he COULD be the best goaltender in the league. This is all speculation and opinion so don't act like there is one easy answer. In my opinion Luongo and Brodeur will continue to be at the top while Kipper and Giguere will be a step below. But who knows someone like Backstrom could blow them all out of the water. It's the current talent we're comparing not the accomplishments of the past. Yes they do play a factor in considering experience but everyone rises and falls.

Edited by Son of a Wing, 27 August 2007 - 04:47 PM.

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#45 Donaldjr2448

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:27 PM

QUOTE(eva unit zero @ August 26, 2007 - 11:29PM) View Post

I think both lists have some pretty noticeable flaws, such as Cheechoo in the top 30 on THN, or Nash, Parise, Gonchar, or Sedin anywhere near the list.

My top twenty would probably be something like:

1. Nicklas Lidstrom, D, Detroit
2. Sidney Crosby, C, Pittsburgh
3. Martin Brodeur, G, New Jersey
4. Roberto Luongo, G, Vancouver
5. Henrik Zetterberg, C, Detroit
6. Alexander Ovechkin, LW, Washington
7. Joe Thornton, C, San Jose
8. Chris Pronger, D, Anaheim
9. Vincent Lecavalier, C, Tampa Bay
10. Marian Hossa, RW, Atlanta
11. Daniel Alfredsson, RW, Ottawa
12. Joe Sakic, C, Colorado
13. Dany Heatley, LW, Ottawa
14. Jaromir Jagr, RW, NY Rangers
15. Martin St. Louis, RW, Tampa Bay
16. Miikka Kiprusoff, G, Calgary
17. Ilya Kovalchuk, LW, Atlanta
18. Jarome Iginla, RW, Calgary
19. Sergei Zubov, D, Dallas
20. Marian Gaborik, LW, Minnesota




Dude where is Pavel Datsyuk??? scared.gif

#46 GMRwings1983

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:34 PM

QUOTE(eva unit zero @ August 26, 2007 - 11:29PM) View Post

I think both lists have some pretty noticeable flaws, such as Cheechoo in the top 30 on THN, or Nash, Parise, Gonchar, or Sedin anywhere near the list.

My top twenty would probably be something like:

1. Nicklas Lidstrom, D, Detroit
2. Sidney Crosby, C, Pittsburgh
3. Martin Brodeur, G, New Jersey
4. Roberto Luongo, G, Vancouver
5. Henrik Zetterberg, C, Detroit
6. Alexander Ovechkin, LW, Washington
7. Joe Thornton, C, San Jose
8. Chris Pronger, D, Anaheim
9. Vincent Lecavalier, C, Tampa Bay
10. Marian Hossa, RW, Atlanta
11. Daniel Alfredsson, RW, Ottawa
12. Joe Sakic, C, Colorado
13. Dany Heatley, LW, Ottawa
14. Jaromir Jagr, RW, NY Rangers
15. Martin St. Louis, RW, Tampa Bay
16. Miikka Kiprusoff, G, Calgary
17. Ilya Kovalchuk, LW, Atlanta
18. Jarome Iginla, RW, Calgary
19. Sergei Zubov, D, Dallas
20. Marian Gaborik, LW, Minnesota



I love Hank, but how can you say without being a homer that he's one of the top 5 players in the league.
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#47 Lou_Siffer

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:50 PM

QUOTE(GMRwings1983 @ August 27, 2007 - 05:34PM) View Post

I love Hank, but how can you say without being a homer that he's one of the top 5 players in the league.


Agreed,...that one had my totally baffled when i saw it. Theres just no justification eva can make for that. Especially when you look at his ranking for Heatley, who not only beat Hank handily again in offensive numbers (even if you project Hank's games to 82) but also beat him in plus/minus. What possible argument can be made, outside from playing for the Wings, for putting Zetterberg 8 spots higher.

And i wont even get into some of the other names he shouldnt be higher than...Heatley's enough.
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#48 norrisnick

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 06:09 PM

QUOTE(Lou_Siffer @ August 27, 2007 - 05:50PM) View Post

Agreed,...that one had my totally baffled when i saw it. Theres just no justification eva can make for that. Especially when you look at his ranking for Heatley, who not only beat Hank handily again in offensive numbers (even if you project Hank's games to 82) but also beat him in plus/minus. What possible argument can be made, outside from playing for the Wings, for putting Zetterberg 8 spots higher.

And i wont even get into some of the other names he shouldnt be higher than...Heatley's enough.


And? I hope you aren't suggesting Heatley is anywhere near Z in terms of defensive play?

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#49 Hockeyguru

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 06:11 PM

QUOTE(eva unit zero @ August 27, 2007 - 09:46AM) View Post

Nothing homeristic about saying Nick Lidstrom is the best player in the league. Name me a player in the NHL right now that has a bigger positive impact on the game every night than Lidstrom. You can't; he doesn't exist.

Now don't get me wrong I love lidstrom but Crosby is arguably the Best player in the league. He is a one man army! LOL

Edited by Hockeyguru, 27 August 2007 - 06:11 PM.


#50 GMRwings1983

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE(norrisnick @ August 27, 2007 - 06:09PM) View Post

And? I hope you aren't suggesting Heatley is anywhere near Z in terms of defensive play?


Z is better defensively than Heatley, but Heatley is a solid defensive forward in his own right. The hardest thing with guys like Hank and Pavel is that Wings players never come close to leading the league in scoring, so it's hard to compare them with the other top players purely based on stats.
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#51 Rice

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE(Hockeyguru @ August 27, 2007 - 07:11PM) View Post

Now don't get me wrong I love lidstrom but Crosby is arguably the Best player in the league. He is a one man army! LOL

So you're saying it can't be argued that Lidstrom is the best player in the league?
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#52 Lou_Siffer

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE(norrisnick @ August 27, 2007 - 06:09PM) View Post

And? I hope you aren't suggesting Heatley is anywhere near Z in terms of defensive play?


He may not be as good, but Heatley's no slouch and also alot better offensively. Comparing the differences in the two areas, Dany Heatley i think is clearly the better player right now. At the very least, you cant possibly agree that Zetterberg should be ranked 8 spots ahead of him, can you?


Edited by Lou_Siffer, 27 August 2007 - 07:19 PM.

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#53 sticknmove

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 07:23 PM

If you put on your "homer" glasses this thread appears in 3-D!
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#54 Yzerfan1999

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 07:27 PM

QUOTE(eva unit zero @ August 26, 2007 - 10:29PM) View Post

I think both lists have some pretty noticeable flaws, such as Cheechoo in the top 30 on THN, or Nash, Parise, Gonchar, or Sedin anywhere near the list.

My top twenty would probably be something like:

1. Nicklas Lidstrom, D, Detroit
2. Sidney Crosby, C, Pittsburgh
3. Martin Brodeur, G, New Jersey
4. Roberto Luongo, G, Vancouver
5. Henrik Zetterberg, C, Detroit
6. Alexander Ovechkin, LW, Washington
7. Joe Thornton, C, San Jose
8. Chris Pronger, D, Anaheim
9. Vincent Lecavalier, C, Tampa Bay
10. Marian Hossa, RW, Atlanta
11. Daniel Alfredsson, RW, Ottawa
12. Joe Sakic, C, Colorado
13. Dany Heatley, LW, Ottawa
14. Jaromir Jagr, RW, NY Rangers
15. Martin St. Louis, RW, Tampa Bay
16. Miikka Kiprusoff, G, Calgary
17. Ilya Kovalchuk, LW, Atlanta
18. Jarome Iginla, RW, Calgary
19. Sergei Zubov, D, Dallas
20. Marian Gaborik, LW, Minnesota




eeek. i agree with the rest of the pop. here. Crosby is number 1 over Lids. Lidstrom is great in so many ways, but if you dont think Crosby is the most dominant player in the league - your not watching close enough. And, if your argument is based on how each player makes the TEAM better, Ovechkin should NOT be higher than Joe Thornton or even Pronger. Ovechkin is explosive and entertaining, but didn't have seasons like Thornton or Pronger. Other then that, your list would be similar to mine the names are agreeable, just need a little shuffling IMO... oh and minus Zubov..

Edited by Yzerfan1999, 27 August 2007 - 07:30 PM.

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#55 GordieSid&Ted

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 07:57 PM

QUOTE(norrisnick @ August 27, 2007 - 03:57PM) View Post

When people build teams it is usually wise to pick cornerstones that will be around a while longer. Nick probably has 5 great years left in him (if he should choose to stay). Sid probably has close to 15-20 great years left (barring career altering injury).

Would your choice change at all if Nick were ckoser to 20 than 40?



It would depend upon his impact as a 20 year old. At 20 Crosby is the league's leading scorer, Hart and Pearson winner and has already broken some NHL records, including some belonging to Gretzky.

Hypothetically, if Nick were 20 years old, to be even in the running he would have had to have won the Norris trophy at 20 and probably netted 20 goals and 70+ points at least to even be on par IMO.
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#56 Kp-Wings

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 12:25 AM

I've seen some of the biggest homerism by far in this thread alone.

/soapbox on

For one, Lidstrom should not be ranked ahead of Crosby at all. Crosby is single-handingly turning that team around. Oh sure, guys like Malkin, Staal, Recchi, and the like are helping but it's Crosby that is the true face of that franchise. He's without a doubt the single best player in the league, and there hasn't been a player as good or even as close as him since Gretzky. Lidstrom is a great player, but no way is he better then Crosby.

Same goes for the unbelievable pedastal people are putting Zetterberg on. Yes, Zetterberg is a good player, but he's not a top 5 in the league. And just look at some of the names some of you are putting him ahead of:

Thornton
Heatley
Ovechkin
Lecavalier
Kiprusoff
Pronger

These guys are all better players then Zetterberg, and they've all proven more then he has. Thornton has a Hart Trophy to his credit. Heatley is coming off of back-to-back 50 goal seasons. Ovechkin won the Calder Trophy his rookie year. Lecavalier scored 50 goals last year. Kiprusoff won a Vezina a few years back, and Pronger has won a Norris Trophy before also.

These guys I listed have all proven more then Zetterberg, and are better players. Yes, Zetterberg can have the injury argument made for him, but I really don't think he was even on pace for 50 goals last year, and he certainly wasn't going to win a Hart Trophy with Crosby around.

I'm not completely discrediting Zetterberg, as he is a great player, and is definitly a top 20 player in the NHL. But a top 5? Get real. Please, let's stop with the ridiculous homerism in here.

Before I finish, I should clarify that while Zetterberg is the best defensive forward amoung those I named better players, they've all still accomplished more during their respective careers, and are not exactly slouches in their own end either.

If this was a Mariusz Czerkawski vs. Zetterberg contest, then yes, it's obvious who'd be the decifered winner, because Zetterberg is miles away a better defensive player then Czerkawski. But these other names I mentioned, while still not as good defensivily as Zetterberg, are still decent defensivily. Their not all one-way offensive minded players like Czerkawski.

(I should clarify the Czerkawski comparison is coming from when he scored 35 goals in 1999-2000. Not his present day form of playing in Switzerland)

Since they aren't bad defensivily, and have accomplished much more offensivily then Zetterberg, that makes them better players in my opinions. If they were all bad defensivily, it'd be a different story. But their not, and some like Heatley and Thornton have an overall decent defensive game.

/soapbox off

Edited by Kp-Wings, 28 August 2007 - 12:48 AM.


#57 eva unit zero

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 12:53 AM

QUOTE(Lou_Siffer @ August 27, 2007 - 08:18PM) View Post


He may not be as good, but Heatley's no slouch and also alot better offensively. Comparing the differences in the two areas, Dany Heatley i think is clearly the better player right now. At the very least, you cant possibly agree that Zetterberg should be ranked 8 spots ahead of him, can you?





Zetterberg from December until his injury was the BEST player in the league. Heatley played all season with Alfredsson and Spezza, and Zetterberg was FAR better OFFENSIVELY when he had Dats and Homer. If Zetterberg had Alfredsson and Spezza all season, and stayed healthy, he'd have freaking won the Ross, Pearson, and Selke.


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#58 GordieSid&Ted

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 08:49 AM

QUOTE(eva unit zero @ August 28, 2007 - 01:53AM) View Post

Zetterberg from December until his injury was the BEST player in the league. Heatley played all season with Alfredsson and Spezza, and Zetterberg was FAR better OFFENSIVELY when he had Dats and Homer. If Zetterberg had Alfredsson and Spezza all season, and stayed healthy, he'd have freaking won the Ross, Pearson, and Selke.



Here we go again, Eva with all his what if scenarios. Yeah, and if Crosby played with Alfredsson and Heatley then Zetterberg wouldn't even be on the radar. Can we please stop ranking players on what they might do if they played with Gretzky and Lemieux and the opposition had an empty net.

Its great to love your own players but Lids at #1 and Z at #5. You're the only human being on the planet that thinks that's reasonable.

Just to humor you though, yeah, if Z played with them he'd probably have better numbers. Enough to win the Art Ross? That's a stretch seeing as how none of those guys came close to Crosby and Alfredsson, Heatly, Spezza is probably the most dominating offensive line in the game. So basically, you're saying Zetterberg in that mix is better than any of those 3 guys as a line. Unfortunately, you forget to account for the fact that playing with Heater and Alfie would mean Z would have to be the center and the most defensively responsible. Spezza is weak defensively in comparison. Z's numbers might not be as high as Spezza's if he had to cover for the other 2 constantly.

Still, this is ridiculous anyway. Z isn't a top 5 in the league. Everybody knows that but you. Putting him there is even more of a homer move than putting Lids in front of Crosby.

And they don't rank players based on what they might do if they played with other players. Like I said, you put Crosby with Heatley and Alfie or with Heatley and Lecavalier and they would destroy any numbers Z could ever put up. Its a pointless line of reasoning IMO because it applies to all players. you could hypothetically put any guys together to make your argument look valid. It's not valid. its homerism.
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#59 eva unit zero

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 09:06 AM

QUOTE(GordieSid&Ted @ August 28, 2007 - 09:49AM) View Post



Here we go again, Eva with all his what if scenarios. Yeah, and if Crosby played with Alfredsson and Heatley then Zetterberg wouldn't even be on the radar. Can we please stop ranking players on what they might do if they played with Gretzky and Lemieux and the opposition had an empty net.

Its great to love your own players but Lids at #1 and Z at #5. You're the only human being on the planet that thinks that's reasonable.

Just to humor you though, yeah, if Z played with them he'd probably have better numbers. Enough to win the Art Ross? That's a stretch seeing as how none of those guys came close to Crosby and Alfredsson, Heatly, Spezza is probably the most dominating offensive line in the game. So basically, you're saying Zetterberg in that mix is better than any of those 3 guys as a line. Unfortunately, you forget to account for the fact that playing with Heater and Alfie would mean Z would have to be the center and the most defensively responsible. Spezza is weak defensively in comparison. Z's numbers might not be as high as Spezza's if he had to cover for the other 2 constantly.

Still, this is ridiculous anyway. Z isn't a top 5 in the league. Everybody knows that but you. Putting him there is even more of a homer move than putting Lids in front of Crosby.

And they don't rank players based on what they might do if they played with other players. Like I said, you put Crosby with Heatley and Alfie or with Heatley and Lecavalier and they would destroy any numbers Z could ever put up. Its a pointless line of reasoning IMO because it applies to all players. you could hypothetically put any guys together to make your argument look valid. It's not valid. its homerism.


Zetterberg's remarkable streak from December on were the majority of the games this season he played at center, and most of the streak was at center. During that time, he was scoring more than anyone in the league. That sort of throws the 'his numbers would slip at center' argument out the window. Zetterberg scored 13 goals and 9 assists in 35 games playing on the wing. After that, he moved to center and scored 20 goals and 26 assists in 28 games before getting hurt. So projecting Z's stats at center over the 63 games he played, it works out to 45 goals, 59 assists, and 104 points in 63 games. Over 80 games, it would be 57-74-131, enough to win the Richard and the Art Ross by a healthy margin. How you can say Z WOULDN'T have had a damn good shot at the scoring title given time at center all season with guys like Alfredsson and Spezza is mind-boggling.

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#60 F.Michael

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 09:12 AM

Anyone out there like Jason Spezza? hehe.gif

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