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Opie

Pierre Turgeon Done

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Look at some players, like Verbeek and James Black, who quietly scored a ton of goals... but they were never celebrated players. Hockey players, for the most part, deflect attention away from themselves. You don't see the excessive celebration and the whole "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME" attitude that you do with other sports. That might be one reason that some players don't come to mind when it's time to vote for the HOF. Not all of the stars in the NHL 'shine'.

And I think that too much importance is put on the number of rings you won when voting for the HOF. There are a lot of players out there that have a drawer full of championship rings that aren't HOF worthy, but they played on teams that dominated. Look at our own Red Wings. Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom all have multiple championships... but that doesn't make them hall of famers. Lidstrom has three rings, and a Smythe, multiple norris trophies, olympic gold, and has been considered one of the very best to play the game for a long time. Third and fourth line players are important, incredibly important, to winning the cup. You don't win without solid depth... but they generally don't make it to the HOF.

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Didn't Neely have 3 consecutive 50 goal seasons? He did do a lot in the time he was in the league. I'm on the fence about him being in the HOF, but he was a pretty dynamic player

Edit: Cam had 3 fifty goal seasons, but they weren't back to back to back. He did have 2 fifty goal seasons in a row though, and nearly 400 goals in a fairly short career for a HOF'er.

Bernie Nicholls is not in the Hall of Fame. Bernie Nicholls was a point per game player who played over 1100 games. Neely was NOT a point per game player who scored less than a point per game. Bernie Nicholls' career highs were 70 goals, 80 assists and 150 points. Neely's career highs were 55 goals, 40 assists and 92 points. Nicholls scored 1052 points during Neely's career (1983-1996), with 415 goals. If you can explain how Nicholls (twice a top ten scorer, and one of five players to score 150 points) isn't deserving yet Neely (never a top ten scorer) is deserving, and convince me of that fact, I will buy you dinner.

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Guest Yzer19

But then again what if he goes up against Yzerman, Hull, Robatialle type guys on the ballot, again he is probably not going to make it.

If Turgeon ends up going against those 3 players then there is something wrong with the Hockey Hall of Fame. The only way Turgeon would go up against them is if they didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot. There is no reason that should happen.

Edited by Yzer19

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If Turgeon ends up going against those 3 players then there is something wrong with the Hockey Hall of Fame. The only way Turgeon would go up against them is if they didn't get in the HOF on the first ballot. There is no reason that should happen.

I had said Those type of players not those players. Because we won't know who he goes up against until after this season. For all we Know on his first Ballot Teemu and Scott Neidermayer could be two of the names he is against.

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I had said Those type of players not those players. Because we won't know who he goes up against until after this season. For all we Know on his first Ballot Teemu and Scott Neidermayer could be two of the names he is against.

Ed Belfour also would be there. But that's still only three players.

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Such as?

Glenn Anderson and Ciccarelli for one. Also, people are often questioning whether Lindros, Bure, or Mogilny should ever get in. I'd have all those players ahead of Turgeon if the vote came down to it. All in all, when I think of Pierre Turgeon, the Hall of Fame doesn't jump out at me right away, and I haven't yet heard an argument for why it should. He was good, but not great, and that's what the Hall of Fame should be for.

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Glenn Anderson and Ciccarelli for one. Also, people are often questioning whether Lindros, Bure, or Mogilny should ever get in. I'd have all those players ahead of Turgeon if the vote came down to it. All in all, when I think of Pierre Turgeon, the Hall of Fame doesn't jump out at me right away, and I haven't yet heard an argument for why it should. He was good, but not great, and that's what the Hall of Fame should be for.

Well, that is a matter of judgement. Turgeon is better than a point per game player over his career and has scored more than 500 goals in the league. Anderson is not a point per game player and hasn't scored 500 goals. Ciccarelli scored more than 600 goals, but he is not a point per game player either.

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Well, that is a matter of judgement. Turgeon is better than a point per game player over his career and has scored more than 500 goals in the league. Anderson is not a point per game player and hasn't scored 500 goals. Ciccarelli scored more than 600 goals, but he is not a point per game player either.

Turgeon is the sixth-highest scoring retired player who has not been inducted. Only Adam Oates and Doug Gilmour are eligible to be inducted, have scored more points than Turgeon, and have not yet been inducted. Steve Yzerman, Luc Robitaille, and Brett Hull round out the top five.

Turgeon is eighth in goals among retired uninducted players, and fourth in assists. Steve Yzerman is the only retired, uninducted player who beats Turgeon in both goals and assists. Dale Hawerchuk, a contemporary of Turgeon's, has comparable totals in a similar number of games, zero Cup wins or postseason all-star selections like Turgeon) and is in the Hall. So I would say Turgeon actually stands a good chance of making the Hall. Pat LaFontaine, who Turgeon was traded for, has significantly lower totals but slightly higher per-game goals and points, and is enshrined.

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Guest Yzer19

Turgeon is the sixth-highest scoring retired player who has not been inducted. Only Adam Oates and Doug Gilmour are eligible to be inducted, have scored more points than Turgeon, and have not yet been inducted. Steve Yzerman, Luc Robitaille, and Brett Hull round out the top five.

Turgeon is eighth in goals among retired uninducted players, and fourth in assists. Steve Yzerman is the only retired, uninducted player who beats Turgeon in both goals and assists. Dale Hawerchuk, a contemporary of Turgeon's, has comparable totals in a similar number of games, zero Cup wins or postseason all-star selections like Turgeon) and is in the Hall. So I would say Turgeon actually stands a good chance of making the Hall. Pat LaFontaine, who Turgeon was traded for, has significantly lower totals but slightly higher per-game goals and points, and is enshrined.

Don't forget about Leetch, Andreychuk, and Nieuwendyk. I'm not sure who falls into what class, but my guess is that Leetch and Andreychuk are part of the 2009 class, while Nieuwendyk will be part of the 2010 class with Turgeon. This means that somebody from the 2009 class won't get in the HOF in 2009 therefore they will end up being part of Turgeon's 2010 class. So it will be Turgeon, Nieuwendyk, someone from 2009 class, possibly Selanne, and possibly Niedermayer. Who will be left out?

Edited by Yzer19

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Don't forget about Leetch, Andreychuk, and Nieuwendyk. I'm not sure who falls into what class, but my guess is that Leetch and Andreychuk are part of the 2009 class, while Nieuwendyk will be part of the 2010 class with Turgeon. This means that somebody from the Yzerman, Hull, Robitaille, Leetch, and Andreychuk class won't get in the HOF in 2009 therefore they will end up being part of Turgeon's 2010 class. So it will be Turgeon, Nieuwendyk, someone from 2009 class, possibly Selanne, and possibly Niedermayer. Who will be left out?

You imply that Turgeon won't get in if he's not in on the first ballot; yet you imply that someone who didn't get in on their first ballot will beat him...contradictory logic, that.

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Guest Yzer19

You imply that Turgeon won't get in if he's not in on the first ballot; yet you imply that someone who didn't get in on their first ballot will beat him...contradictory logic, that.

No, I'm not implying anything at all. I'm not sure who will or won't get in on the first ballot. All I know for sure is at least one of the nine players won't get in on the first ballot. I'm not saying it will necessarily be Turgeon, I was just throwing out some more names of possible players that could get in the HOF.

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No, I'm not implying anything at all. I'm not sure who will or won't get in on the first ballot. All I know for sure is at least one of the nine players won't get in on the first ballot. I'm not saying it will necessarily be Turgeon, I was just throwing out some more names of possible players that could get in the HOF.

Well,

Yzerman, Hull, and Robitaille are all first ballot locks. Leetch beats out Andreychuk as Andreychuk may have scored almost 670 goals, he was never really a star player and Leetch won the Norris twice and the Smythe. Turgeon, Selanne, Niedermayer would all beat Andreychuk, so it comes down to Nieuwendyk v Andreychuk...Nieuwy may not have scored as many goals as Andreychuk, but he won three Cups and a Smythe.

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Turgeon is the sixth-highest scoring retired player who has not been inducted. Only Adam Oates and Doug Gilmour are eligible to be inducted, have scored more points than Turgeon, and have not yet been inducted. Steve Yzerman, Luc Robitaille, and Brett Hull round out the top five.

Turgeon is eighth in goals among retired uninducted players, and fourth in assists. Steve Yzerman is the only retired, uninducted player who beats Turgeon in both goals and assists. Dale Hawerchuk, a contemporary of Turgeon's, has comparable totals in a similar number of games, zero Cup wins or postseason all-star selections like Turgeon) and is in the Hall. So I would say Turgeon actually stands a good chance of making the Hall. Pat LaFontaine, who Turgeon was traded for, has significantly lower totals but slightly higher per-game goals and points, and is enshrined.

But once again, the Hall of Fame should be for great players. All those guys you mentioned in your post deserve to make it over Turgeon. Stats are important, but not as important as you're making them. This isn't baseball. And how can you compare his greatness to Pat Lafontaine?

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But once again, the Hall of Fame should be for great players. All those guys you mentioned in your post deserve to make it over Turgeon. Stats are important, but not as important as you're making them. This isn't baseball. And how can you compare his greatness to Pat Lafontaine?

Because LaFontaine played significantly fewer games and had trouble staying healthy his whole career. It's like who's more deserving of the Hall; Dino Ciccarelli or Pavel Bure? Bure was the greater player with the higher ceiling and was one of the league's top players for several seasons in a row. Yet Dino is the one you hear about 'he should be in the Hall!!' and Bure is just on the maybes list. Or Eric Lindros vs Dale Hawerchuk. Lindros was consideredone of the top five players for most of the second half of the 90s...Hawerchuk was never anywhere near the top 5 players in the league, as he was a primarily offensive player whose best seasons were barely over 100 points in the 80s. Hawerchuk is in, Lindros is a maybe. Lindros has a Hart, a few more nominations and tied for the scoring title, Hawerchuk has nothing whatsoever. Realistically the most apt comparison is Hawerchuk to Turgeon...and honestly I have to say Turgeon is more deserving than Dale.

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