Aaron Downey?

[Opie 308]

Well thought out and convincing argument F.Michael.

Just kidding you and I have had this discussion before and it was a good debate, I was just giving you some crap!!!!!!

[Dominator2005 558]

Elbows like that do not happen every game they are a once and a while thing it is not like every game the wings play there is a player out there running around looking to destroy D and Z, this isn't Slap Shot. So how do you know when to put Downey in the line up, you can't wait until the second period to name your line up. You have to ice a team every game that gives you the best shot to win.

Do you know that more people in the US are killed with their own hand gun than are with that of an assailant?

The Wings lost to the Ducks due to pp ineffectiveness and the inability to score, not because they were beat up. If that was the case the team never would have made it out of the first round against Calgary, which I would argue was the toughest most physical team the wings faced in the post season.

And I remember Cleary absolutely destroying Phaneuf which led to a goal, but you conveniently left that out to help your this team is weak argument!!!!!!!

And again I ask how on earth will a fight scare a fighter from taking a run at anyone????

1. No comment / we didn't watched the same games

2. That was one hit - THAT'S THE WAY HOCKEY SHOULD BE PLAYED so what's your argument?

3. Then please explain me - why Pittsburg trade for Laraque???

[Curban915 0]

agree to disagree

[rick zombo 3,739]

Downey won't make the team.

Chances are he was brought in to try and push guys like Kopecky and Grigorenko to have better camps.

[Guest nutz2u]

I'm to the point that I really don't care if a player can do anything on the ice as long as he will give guys like Pronger a dirty cheapshot when they pull something like he did in the playoffs last year. It made my day when he hurt himself trying to take out Yzerman

[Opie 308]

1. No comment / we didn't watched the same games

2. That was one hit - THAT'S THE WAY HOCKEY SHOULD BE PLAYED so what's your argument?

3. Then please explain me - why Pittsburg trade for Laraque???

1.You are trying to tell me that if the PP scores on the 5-3 that happened just before the Ducks tied the game, the outcome would have been the same because the Wings are a weaker team? OR are you saying that if the team was tougher some how the Ducks would have backed down to the Wings tougher ways?

2. My argument is that a lot of people go around talking like the wings are hiding in the corner because the big bad Ducks are going to hurt them. The wings backed down to no one this season (well the philly game I will give you), or post season. Being able to score is also how the game is played, so for the Cleary one hit you will also get 1 goal if lucky from Downey. Wow!!!

3. To exact revenge!! Pure and simple, Laraque will not stop Tootoo from doing a damned thing. He is just there so that afterwards some one is there to exact revenge.

IF you want someone on the Wings to exact revenge for cheap and dirty hits than say so, don't hide behind the thinly veiled argument that Dats and Z will get hurt with out a guy like Downey, but with him no one would dare take a run at them.

If it is revenge you want than say so, but don't say the team is weak and can't stand up for itself.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Can someone please explain to me why so many people on this site are in LOVE with Aaron Downey? He has never scored more than 1 goal a year, never played more than 43 games in a season. One year he did get 4 assists!!! WOW

And if your reason is because the wings need an enforcer, please done reply, they made it to the Western Conference Finals last year, and if you think Aaron Downey would have put them over the top, I dont want to hear from you.

I love when somebody comes off like a complete asswipe. That instantly relieves me of any guilt I may feel for going over the top of them and being an ever bigger asswipe when I tell them they're a fuggin moron.

1. Anaheim won the Stanley Cup. In case you didn't notice, they had George Parros, Shawn Thornton and Brad May on their roster. Oh yeah, and Pronger, O'Donnell, O'Brien (at one point), Moen, etc... All guys who are willing to drop the gloves, especially when one of their offensive players took a big hit or were getting abused.

2. Detroit's win in 97 featured a roster that included Shanahan, McCarty, Lapointe and Kocur. I guess those guys had nothing to contribute from a physical/fighting standpoint and that you can prove it had no bearing on us winning.

3. The fact that you would bring up Downie's offensive production or lack thereof proves you to be a fuggin moron becuase their isn't a person here that 1. doesn't already know he isn't a scorer and 2. would be added to the team to play a completely different role.

4. People aren't in love with Downie. They're in love with the concept of having a legitimate fighter on the roster to mix things up and back things up with his fists when players like Lebda get run through the boards.

Do yourself a favor. If you're going to be an ass, at least be smart about what you're talking about. Since you weren't, I feel completely justified in dubbing you a STUPID-ass.

Cheers!

The misconception that a guy like Downey will stop Tootoo or Pronger is very, very off base whether you, or anyone else here thinks otherwise.

Guys like that do that s*** regardless of who is on the ice. They are who they are, having Chris Simon running around with a stick that says "your face here" will not stop Tootoo, Boogard or Janssen from taking a run at Dats or Z.

They will do it regardless of what they think may happen, because they are not scared of a fight. Why would the threat of a fight do anything to stop Boogard? Having a fighter is not a deterrent to guys like this. Did having a fighter deter Lemieux from trying to turn Drapers face into ground chuck?

Downey and Mac are not the same type of player, McCarty was a better skater, better shooter, however they both were willing to fight. So was Shanny at one point in time does that mean Downey and Shanny are the same type of player, no. And neither are Shanny and Mac. There are varying degrees of fighters, those who can score, those who score and can fight, and fighters who are thugs and once and a while they get a deflection that ends up in the net.

F.Michael, don't players also play with more swagger and energy when on a line with Dats or Z type of players?

Johnathon Cheecho seems to have a lot more energy with Thornton on his line than he would if Downey were there. (horrible exaggeration, I know but you get my point)

I agree Opie that you cannot prevent any player from running at our guys. Tootoo is tootoo no matter who we put on the ice. However, I for one happen to think being on the receiving end ALL THE TIME is not the best way to go. Furthermore, alongside with dishing some of our own punishment out, it'd sure be nice to see somebody stand up for our guys when they get carried off the ice. How many times did that happen last year to our boys after somebody took a huge run at them?

I think the problem here is that Energy guy and Enforcer are two completely different things, what fighters can you think of and maybe I am missing someone, that run around hitting people, they are usually big lumbering guys. If Downey is more an Energy guy than a fighter then I will be more in favor. I have not seen him play and I doubt many people on LGW.com have.

Outside of Avery if you could consider him that, he can score also....

HOLY s***, I shoulda read thru the entire thread prior to posting. So you admit you've never seen him play and you relied on stats to start your initial lame-ass position.

Maybe you should do some research before you spout off.

[jerm8352 3]

I am confused? "Is it gonna win them the Cup, no"...... SO WHAT IS THE POINT? Isn't that the goal?

Plus I am just as much of a basketcase as the next every year when the Wings get bounced from the playoffs? But the notion that there is constant disappointment, with the Wings EVERY year? How about you guy try living in Chicago, Columbus, take your pick of pretty much any other team in the NHL outside of New Jersey, the Wings have had more success than everyone. Then we will chat about constant disappointment.

I guess it wasn't clear what I was trying to say. Downey isn't going to singlehandedly win the cup for the Wings. But, a fighter, or enforcer or whatever, will help the other people on the team. As someone else pointed out, do you want Datsyuk and Zetterberg sticking up for themselves? Cuz they will get their you know whats handed to them and get injured. Even Gretzky and Hull have both come out and said that they would not have been the same player if they did not have their body guards riding shotgun with them.

[Dominator2005 558]

1.You are trying to tell me that if the PP scores on the 5-3 that happened just before the Ducks tied the game, the outcome would have been the same because the Wings are a weaker team? OR are you saying that if the team was tougher some how the Ducks would have backed down to the Wings tougher ways?

2. My argument is that a lot of people go around talking like the wings are hiding in the corner because the big bad Ducks are going to hurt them. The wings backed down to no one this season (well the philly game I will give you), or post season. Being able to score is also how the game is played, so for the Cleary one hit you will also get 1 goal if lucky from Downey. Wow!!!

3. To exact revenge!! Pure and simple, Laraque will not stop Tootoo from doing a damned thing. He is just there so that afterwards some one is there to exact revenge.

IF you want someone on the Wings to exact revenge for cheap and dirty hits than say so, don't hide behind the thinly veiled argument that Dats and Z will get hurt with out a guy like Downey, but with him no one would dare take a run at them.

If it is revenge you want than say so, but don't say the team is weak and can't stand up for itself.

You can believe what ever you want - Elvis is alive, Jim Morrison is alive, Wings don't need to get tougher, they need to sign Katarina Witt... all those theories in my mind you can put in same category...

[eva unit zero 271]

MAC scored alot of goals, and just not in 97, i do recall a certain hat trick in 2001 also, to compare MacCarty to Downey is completely absurd. Downey has done nothing to date to indicate to be of value.

I dont have a problem with them signing him and bringing him in, maybe he could become a contributer look at Cleary's improvement since he arrived, I am not arguing with Holland, maybe he has a reason to believe he could improve, my issue has been with everybody else, they have been falling over them selves hoping he makes the team, I am questioning what they think he is going to bring.

Cleary's improvement had more to do with the fact that he wasn't given prime ice right away and had to actually work for his opportunities. On other teams Cleary was given prime ice time right away because he was supposed to be a future star. His lack of work ethic ruined that, and he came to Detroit on a tryout basis because nobody else was interested. He had to work to earn his roster spot, and he had to work to keep it, both things he never had to do in the past in his NHL career. Downey was never supposed to be good, and he works hard just to get the minimal performance he does show. Cleary is on a totally different level from Downey...there is no comparison between the situations.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

1.You are trying to tell me that if the PP scores on the 5-3 that happened just before the Ducks tied the game, the outcome would have been the same because the Wings are a weaker team? OR are you saying that if the team was tougher some how the Ducks would have backed down to the Wings tougher ways?

2. My argument is that a lot of people go around talking like the wings are hiding in the corner because the big bad Ducks are going to hurt them. The wings backed down to no one this season (well the philly game I will give you), or post season. Being able to score is also how the game is played, so for the Cleary one hit you will also get 1 goal if lucky from Downey. Wow!!!

3. To exact revenge!! Pure and simple, Laraque will not stop Tootoo from doing a damned thing. He is just there so that afterwards some one is there to exact revenge.

IF you want someone on the Wings to exact revenge for cheap and dirty hits than say so, don't hide behind the thinly veiled argument that Dats and Z will get hurt with out a guy like Downey, but with him no one would dare take a run at them.

If it is revenge you want than say so, but don't say the team is weak and can't stand up for itself.

Opie, you and I agree 100% about not being able to prevent people from abusing our guys. But given that that is the state of affairs and that basically the other 29 teams are somewhat capable of answering the bell from a fighting standpoint, don't you think it would behoove us to at least keep someone around who could fill that aspect of the game for us?

Like someone else said about the gun analogy. I'd rather have one in case I need it instead of needing one and not having it. That statement fits perfectly.

I don't want a goon nor a pure enforcer. I want a guy who is going to work very hard, go full speed at opposing dmen and drill them repeatedly to soften them up. I want a guy who when Lebda gets run through the boards will at least go up to the checker and invite him to dance. I want a guy who after Pronger uses Homer's face like a windex wipe says to hell with this and jumps on top of Pronger.

The argument will always be that its better to have the PP and hurt them that way. Well, that's a great theory but it isn't always reality. Sometimes you need somebody to start a fight. Sometimes you need somebody to instigate a fight, take the two minute penalty or whatever solely to prove a point. That point being that we're going to play you as hard as possible and we aren't going to sit idly by as you run our players, run our goalies, etc....You may continue to do so, but there will be repercussions.

[Opie 308]

You can believe what ever you want - Elvis is alive, Jim Morrison is alive, Wings don't need to get tougher, they need to sign Katarina Witt... all those theories in my mind you can put in same category...

Thus the wings needing to get tougher fits in that category as well correct?

I can point to a specific example or two of plays or situations that cost the wings the series, for instance: PP ineffectiveness, and Lilja's give away to name a few. Can you point to one instance where having a fighter would have won the Wings a game or the series?

Gordie:

Who one that game? the one where Pronger mashed Homer. Did that hit have any barring on the outcome of the game?

My opinion, no, I am guessing your opinion is yes.

My issue is not with people wanting or not wanting an enforcer or a fighter it is the reasons they are hiding behind. You have been clear about it from the start of these threads, however others say the team needs one and can not win without one.

And then in the same thread some one says well, having and enforcer will not help win the cup. Well what in the hell good does it do then.

And the arguments about the 97 team having all of that toughness. They were able to have that toughness because guys like Shanny, Lapointe, and Mac were players first fighters second, and the top 9 forwards on that team were an unbelievable combination of players and the D was one of the best cup winning d's in years.

You or I could have stood in that net and won a few games with that team in front of us.

If you can find a player like Shanny when he first got to Det I am all for that player joining the team, but right now this team doesn't have the top 6 talent to sustain a guy like Downey,Hartnell, Tootoo, etc.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Thus the wings needing to get tougher fits in that category as well correct?

I can point to a specific example or two of plays or situations that cost the wings the series, for instance: PP ineffectiveness, and Lilja's give away to name a few. Can you point to one instance where having a fighter would have won the Wings a game or the series?

Gordie:

Who one that game? the one where Pronger mashed Homer. Did that hit have any barring on the outcome of the game?

My opinion, no, I am guessing your opinion is yes.

My issue is not with people wanting or not wanting an enforcer or a fighter it is the reasons they are hiding behind. You have been clear about it from the start of these threads, however others say the team needs one and can not win without one.

And then in the same thread some one says well, having and enforcer will not help win the cup. Well what in the hell good does it do then.

And the arguments about the 97 team having all of that toughness. They were able to have that toughness because guys like Shanny, Lapointe, and Mac were players first fighters second, and the top 9 forwards on that team were an unbelievable combination of players and the D was one of the best cup winning d's in years.

You or I could have stood in that net and won a few games with that team in front of us.

If you can find a player like Shanny when he first got to Det I am all for that player joining the team, but right now this team doesn't have the top 6 talent to sustain a guy like Downey,Hartnell, Tootoo, etc.

You are right about the reasons being given being off base. Everybody knows I want a fighter because I love fights and I believe in their usefulness insomuch as sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and not fire with powerplays.

All this so much hair splitting I find it funny to be honest. People are over analyzing the entire thing. This boils down to do we want a guy on the roster who will bang opposition players and answer the bell when it rings. I'm voting yes. It's not that complicated a situation.

I've said it before, you can't prove either way that a fighter deters any behavior. I don't think it does but unless you are Jarkko Ruutu and you see Boogaard out there and decide to let up on a hit or not, you can't say definitively. You also can't prove one way or the other that having a fighter or guys who can fight will equal winning the cup.

However, lets look at something real quick and see if people can guess what these teams have in common

Anaheim-Pronger, Odonnell, Beauchemin, Moen, Thornton, May (Parros didn't play much)

Carolina-Mike Commodore (that's a bit of a stretch I know)

Tampa Bay-Andre Roy, you could toss Nolan Pratt in there I suppose

New Jersey-Jim McKenzie, Ken Daneyko, Turner Stevenson, Colin White, Grant Marshall

Detroit-Darren McCarty maybe, sorta Shanny too still

Colorado-Greg DeVries, Chris Dingman

There's an obvious pattern here. Yes, many of these players were not role players but actual contributors. But in every instance save Carolina, there has been at least one guy on each team who played his fair share in the Stanley Cup playoffs who could be considered nothing more than a heavyweight fighter with some skill.

I believe Downey would fit into that category as well. I don't think its a surprise that he scored in the preseason opener either. Given decent 4th line minutes I wouldn't be surprised to see him bag 6 or 7 goals. I think he could contribute and balance this team out some more. We're talented, we've got speed, we've got some grit and guys willing to finish checks. But none of our guys hit like Downey consistently and none of them can come close to fighting like he can.

Edited September 19, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[therock48880 14]

Downey would have zero bearing on Hank and Dats unless he was playing with them. Enforcers do not serve as deterrents unless they are feared fighters and are likely to be on the ce at the same time as the guys they are protecting...neither of which is true about Downey on the Wings. Nobody will be deterred if there is only a slim chance they would even be on the ice against the fighter, and/or if that fighter is not someone they would be afraid of facing.

So Kocur never helped Yzerman? They weren't on the same line, even when Probert was gone. McCarty never helped Yzerman? I wonder if Stevie would agree with you on that.

Remember three years ago when Bryan Allen took a cheap shot at Zetterberg and broke his leg? McCarty was not on the ice when that happened but the next time they played McCarty layed Allen out. Allen hasn't slashed a red wing since. Coincidence, I suppose, right?

I'm not lobbying for Downey because he doesn't really impress me that much. However, for people to say there's no value to having a guy that will stick up for teammates shows an incredible lack of hockey knowledge. They DO make an impact whether they are on the ice or not. That's why Schneider was quoted last year as saying if your opponent has a "nuclear weapon" then you want one too and if they have two of them, then you want two of them. Well, Schneider gets his wish and his team is a favorite to win the Cup, Detroit's not.

Schneider quote:

“Well, it’s hard to say,†Schneider said. “We’ve had success really without one in the past, but they’re kind of like nuclear weapons – if the other team has one, you want to have one. If they have two, you want two.â€Â

http://freep.typepad.com/redwings/2006/11/...ams_showin.html

Gordie:

Who one that game? the one where Pronger mashed Homer. Did that hit have any barring on the outcome of the game?

My opinion, no, I am guessing your opinion is yes.

Didn't have an impact on the outcome of that game. Did it have an impact on the rest of this series? Well, Holmstrom disappeared the rest of the series.

It's all a matter of opinion I suppose and has been debated over and over.

[Opie 308]

Homer, Z, and Dats disappeared almost every road game. They scored almost all of their points in the Joe.

I have no idea why, but that is how it shook out. And if you realistically expect homer to score every game you are seriously overestimating his talent level. Did that hit deter him from standing in front of the net, did it stop him from playing his game no. It just so happens that he didn't score after that hit.

I say coincidence you say, they went hand in hand.

I think that a pp that can not score on a 5-3 in the NHL is much more of a concern than a fighter but again it is all opinion.

[daniel1 32]

Downey has balls. It might convince a few of our other players to use theirs on the ice too. Throw a few more hits, stick up for their teamates more; these are some of the intagibles that don't show up on the scoreboard that a guy like Downey brings. There was a reason Gretzky gave Semenko a new car. As Babs said; "those guys keep the flies off".

[eva unit zero 271]

You are right about the reasons being given being off base. Everybody knows I want a fighter because I love fights and I believe in their usefulness insomuch as sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and not fire with powerplays.

All this so much hair splitting I find it funny to be honest. People are over analyzing the entire thing. This boils down to do we want a guy on the roster who will bang opposition players and answer the bell when it rings. I'm voting yes. It's not that complicated a situation.

I've said it before, you can't prove either way that a fighter deters any behavior. I don't think it does but unless you are Jarkko Ruutu and you see Boogaard out there and decide to let up on a hit or not, you can't say definitively. You also can't prove one way or the other that having a fighter or guys who can fight will equal winning the cup.

However, lets look at something real quick and see if people can guess what these teams have in common

Anaheim-Pronger, Odonnell, Beauchemin, Moen, Thornton, May (Parros didn't play much)

Carolina-Mike Commodore (that's a bit of a stretch I know)

Tampa Bay-Andre Roy, you could toss Nolan Pratt in there I suppose

New Jersey-Jim McKenzie, Ken Daneyko, Turner Stevenson, Colin White, Grant Marshall

Detroit-Darren McCarty maybe, sorta Shanny too still

Colorado-Greg DeVries, Chris Dingman

There's an obvious pattern here. Yes, many of these players were not role players but actual contributors. But in every instance save Carolina, there has been at least one guy on each team who played his fair share in the Stanley Cup playoffs who could be considered nothing more than a heavyweight fighter with some skill.

McCarty's biggest impact in the postseason had absolutely zero to do wit hthe fact he fights. McCarty would have been a useless scrub in the playoffs if you take away his clutch scoring; fighter or not.

Dingman was the 13th forward on that Avs team...he only saw time in the playoffs because Forsberg was injured for most of them, and other forwards missed the occasional game. Dingman's name should be listed, but under the Lightning not the Avs.

McKenzie is the same story, he only dressed because Nieuwendyk and Stevenson missed significant playoff time.

None of the guys who were fighters first made any sort of significant contribution in their respective Cup seasons.

Brad May had one fight last season, a meaningless draw vs Danny Richmond. His value is not as a fighter anymore, but as a defensive forward and a grinder.

Let's see, from the list of players you posted, the following players saw more than 200 total minutes during the postseason. In other words, an average of 10 minutes over 20 games played.

Anaheim-Pronger, O'Donnell, Beauchemin, Moen

Carolina-Mike Commodore

Tampa Bay-Nolan Pratt

New Jersey-Ken Daneyko, Colin White, Grant Marshall

Detroit-Darren McCarty, Brendan Shanahan

Colorado-Greg DeVries

I believe Downey would fit into that category as well. I don't think its a surprise that he scored in the preseason opener either. Given decent 4th line minutes I wouldn't be surprised to see him bag 6 or 7 goals. I think he could contribute and balance this team out some more. We're talented, we've got speed, we've got some grit and guys willing to finish checks. But none of our guys hit like Downey consistently and none of them can come close to fighting like he can.

Downey is a journeyman with no skill. The average regular season scoring output of the listed forwards in the applicable season? 75 Games, with 16 goals, 20 assists, and 36 points. Downey's CAREER stats are 7-6-13 in 183 games. He's 33, so it's not like he's going to suddenly get better. Downey is not even at the Chris Dingman level; Dingman's single season high in goals is 8, compared to Downey's career mark of 7.

[Opie 308]

McCarty's biggest impact in the postseason had absolutely zero to do wit hthe fact he fights. McCarty would have been a useless scrub in the playoffs if you take away his clutch scoring; fighter or not.

Dingman was the 13th forward on that Avs team...he only saw time in the playoffs because Forsberg was injured for most of them, and other forwards missed the occasional game. Dingman's name should be listed, but under the Lightning not the Avs.

McKenzie is the same story, he only dressed because Nieuwendyk and Stevenson missed significant playoff time.

None of the guys who were fighters first made any sort of significant contribution in their respective Cup seasons.

Brad May had one fight last season, a meaningless draw vs Danny Richmond. His value is not as a fighter anymore, but as a defensive forward and a grinder.

Let's see, from the list of players you posted, the following players saw more than 200 total minutes during the postseason. In other words, an average of 10 minutes over 20 games played.

Anaheim-Pronger, O'Donnell, Beauchemin, Moen

Carolina-Mike Commodore

Tampa Bay-Nolan Pratt

New Jersey-Ken Daneyko, Colin White, Grant Marshall

Detroit-Darren McCarty, Brendan Shanahan

Colorado-Greg DeVries

Downey is a journeyman with no skill. The average regular season scoring output of the listed forwards in the applicable season? 75 Games, with 16 goals, 20 assists, and 36 points. Downey's CAREER stats are 7-6-13 in 183 games. He's 33, so it's not like he's going to suddenly get better. Downey is not even at the Chris Dingman level; Dingman's single season high in goals is 8, compared to Downey's career mark of 7.

I wish there was something I could offer after this post that made any kind of improvement to it, however all I can say is, you are right.

Mac, Shanny, Pronger, Beauchemin, and other's biggest impact was not their ability to fight, it was their ability to score, defend, kill pps, or quarterback the pp. Again, you can afford to have a Joey Kocur when the roster is what it was on the 97 team: Doug Brown, Kris Draper, Sergei Fedorov, Slava Fetisov, Tomas Holmstrom, Joey Kocur, Vladimir Konstantinov, Slava Kozlov, Martin Lapointe, Igor Larionov, Nicklas Lidstrom, Kirk Maltby, Darren McCarty, Larry Murphy, Chris Osgood, Jamie Pushor, Bob Rouse, Tomas Sandstrom, Brendan Shanahan, Tim Taylor, Mike Vernon, Aaron Ward, Steve Yzerman

Can this Red Wings team afford to have a Kocur/Probert type guy with the forwards they currently have. I don't think so, they need to worry about scoring. IMO

[therock48880 14]

Homer, Z, and Dats disappeared almost every road game. They scored almost all of their points in the Joe.

I have no idea why, but that is how it shook out. And if you realistically expect homer to score every game you are seriously overestimating his talent level. Did that hit deter him from standing in front of the net, did it stop him from playing his game no. It just so happens that he didn't score after that hit.

I say coincidence you say, they went hand in hand.

I think that a pp that can not score on a 5-3 in the NHL is much more of a concern than a fighter but again it is all opinion.

I will absolutely say that Homer wasn't the same player after that hit as he was before it. He was much more tentative along the boards and not as determined in the front of the net. Whether anyone likes it or not, Pronger's hit took Homer out of that series and changed the balance of it. Homer was unstoppable up until that hit. I don't see how anyone can argue differently.

[FnuLaird 0]

Alot people are saying that we shouldn't have Downey cuz he can't score... But has he really been on any teams with any kind of offensive skill? Dallas just has Modano, Montreal has Samsonov and Kovalev... which isn't saying much... but if he were on the Wings roster he could probably score a little more. I'm not saying he's gunna get 40 goals... maybe just 6 or 7. I don't know, what do you guys think?

[Opie 308]

Homer, Unstoppable he had three goals and one assist the entire series, 2 of the goals and his one assist were in that game. I can only remember the one that was his own creating, the wrist shot he let go. Other than that I would say Dats and Z created the opportunity he was good enough to finish it.

I have to say I cannot remember his play around the boards after the hit, I do know he was still in front of the net and playing hard.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Im not gonna lie, I hate threads like this.

People go on and on about how gritty and tough we are, were not. With a guy like Downey helps alot, espicially playing with Drake , Kopecky or Maltby. Saying having an enforcer isnt nessacary, is totally off base. Tampa had one, Anaheim had one, we had one in all 3 of our cups. So dont try giving me that.

I like Aaron Downey because he plays hard, he's gritty, he's a team guy, and will try his hardest to make sure no one puts there hands on Z and Dats, does that mean no one will? No it doesnt, but it does mean they'll have a bit of protection from all the cheap shots they get.

Aaron Downey will help this team out, in the grit and toughness department.

If you like seeing Zetterberg and Datsyuk get run, cheapshotted, cross checked and bullied, then thats fine, dont get Aaron Downey, but if you want it to be cut down, then thats what Aaron Downey is for.

Oh, and if enforcers arent important, then why did Pittsburgh go out and get Big Georges? To PROTECT Sidney.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I dig Aaron Downey b/c I heard he hosts ass-kicking barbeque parties and grills some mean hamburgers and ribs. That's why I want him to make it on Detroit. If I come up for Red WIngs games at all, I can eat the mean hamburgers and be a part of the ass-kicking barbeques at his place of residence.

Other than that, I haven't got a clue why else I dig him yet...

*shrugs*

[eva unit zero 271]

If you like seeing Zetterberg and Datsyuk get run, cheapshotted, cross checked and bullied, then thats fine, dont get Aaron Downey, but if you want it to be cut down, then thats what Aaron Downey is for.

Yeah, I buy that. Without Downey our stars are guaranteed to get cheaped and bullied, but Downey's 10 minutes a week will prevent all that?

Oh, and if enforcers arent important, then why did Pittsburgh go out and get Big Georges? To PROTECT Sidney.

There is a world of difference between Downey and Laraque, and that's just in the SKILL department. You'll notice the Pens didn't go out and get Downey.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Yeah, I buy that. Without Downey our stars are guaranteed to get cheaped and bullied, but Downey's 10 minutes a week will prevent all that?

There is a world of difference between Downey and Laraque, and that's just in the SKILL department. You'll notice the Pens didn't go out and get Downey.

Notice how I didnt say it would prevent it, it would cut it down. There gonna get cheapshotted anyway because there skilled players, but most skilled players have guys to protect them.

Stop with your comparisons, I said if an enforcer isnt important, why did the pens go out and get one? Because they want to keep Sidney and Malkin safer, and thats what enforcers are for.

Anyways, Im done arguing, you dont want an enforcer, I do. Niether of us will change our perspective, so theres no point in going on arguing about it.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan