Downey or Sopel?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Ellis and Hartigan are guys who can step in on the third or fourth line and contribute defensively if necessary. Downey ONLY brings fighting, which makes him worthless as a thirteenth forward. Downey isn't a good enough player or a good enough fighter to justify being ahead of Kopecky, Maltby, Samuelsson, or Drake as a regular in the roster. If Downey were as good offensively and defensively as Hartigan or Ellis, he'd have the spot locked up already. Remember that.

Is this the same Matt Ellis that skated around aimlessly last season banging into boards for 5-10 minutes a game? And as someone posted earlier, who in the blue hell is Mark Hartigan? I couldn't pick him out of a police lineup.

[Opie 308]

Just a quick thought, although I would still vote for Downey over one and only one current wing player or prospect, does anyone else realize this guy has never played more than 43 games a season.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Ellis and Hartigan are guys who can step in on the third or fourth line and contribute defensively if necessary. Downey ONLY brings fighting, which makes him worthless as a thirteenth forward. Downey isn't a good enough player or a good enough fighter to justify being ahead of Kopecky, Maltby, Samuelsson, or Drake as a regular in the roster. If Downey were as good offensively and defensively as Hartigan or Ellis, he'd have the spot locked up already. Remember that.

You mention contributing defensively, well...does hitting and fighting not mean anything to you? Are these not contributions? By my count, thats 2 categories for Downey vs 1 for those guys! And thats IF they play decent defensively. Ellis and Hartigan offer nothing, just like Langfeld last season. What purpose did he serve playing all those games? ZERO. Is Brian McGrattan better offensively and defensively than every other guy on the Senators? How about George Parros? How about a boatload of other fighters in the NHL? It seems only the Wings organization feels the way you do, doesnt that strike you as odd?

Edited September 24, 2007 by Lou_Siffer

[Spongewingredpants 75]

this is a fun thread. i can feel the love

[N4C3R 0]

Short memory span? The '06 Hurricanes had no enforcer.

In the 2005-2006 campaign Carolina had Jesse Boulerice under contract. Jesse has been plying his trade in the NHL since 2001-2002. The Hurricanes sent him to the AHL where he stayed last year. He's fighting for an NHL job in Philadelphia this preseason, but let's get back to the 2005-2006 season you mention.

Here is Jesse's fight card from 2005-2006 as per http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/435/fightcard/reg2006

Ryan Vandenbussche

Brian McGrattan (x2)

Eric Boulton

Jason Strudwick

Jody Shelley

Just because Carolina didn't give Jesse much ice time doesn't mean that Carolina didn't carry an enforcer. I'm not going to argue over skill level or effectiveness. The fact is that Carolina had an enforcer on their roster and kept him with the NHL club the entire season they won the Stanley Cup.

The following season (2006-2007) they sent Jesse to the AHL. That would be the season after their championship, the season they failed to make the playoffs. Kind of suggests the psychological advantage thing you keep reading about in these forums may actually have some merit eh? I know you don't get it because this knowledge is borne from experience, rather than facts.

So let us just stick to the facts. You are wrong.

Pete

[Lou_Siffer 1]

In the 2005-2006 campaign Carolina had Jesse Boulerice under contract. Jesse has been plying his trade in the NHL since 2001-2002. The Hurricanes sent him to the AHL where he stayed last year. He's fighting for an NHL job in Philadelphia this preseason, but let's get back to the 2005-2006 season you mention.

Here is Jesse's fight card from 2005-2006 as per http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/435/fightcard/reg2006

Ryan Vandenbussche

Brian McGrattan (x2)

Eric Boulton

Jason Strudwick

Jody Shelley

Just because Carolina didn't give Jesse much ice time doesn't mean that Carolina didn't carry an enforcer. I'm not going to argue over skill level or effectiveness. The fact is that Carolina had an enforcer on their roster and kept him with the NHL club the entire season they won the Stanley Cup.

The following season (2006-2007) they sent Jesse to the AHL. That would be the season after their championship, the season they failed to make the playoffs. Kind of suggests the psychological advantage thing you keep reading about in these forums may actually have some merit eh? I know you don't get it because this knowledge is borne from experience, rather than facts.

So let us just stick to the facts. You are wrong.

Pete

Didnt Boulerice get sent to St Louis in the Weight trade? He was on the team the majority of the year though, and they did have a couple other guys who were willing to go if need be.

[Mors 201]

Ellis and Hartigan are both useless, I'd rather have a guy like Downey who can provide energy and some hitting when we need it, then pick up another scrub just because he could potentially score 3-5 goals the entire season. Scoring talent isn't lacking on this team...

[sticknmove 0]

NorrisNick as stated above, Carolina did in fact have a enforcer on the team, and a lot of time in the lineup for a good part of the year. You are not goinng to get away from this, it is another example of where you opened your mouth without having a clue what you were talking about.

"Short memory span? The '06 Hurricanes had no enforcer. Nor did any one of their regulars fight even more than a couple times. And I hope you realize for every cup winning team, there is a league full of teams that didn't win it all. That said, it was mostly stated to toss another meaningless and wholly unsupported statistic back into the fray."

I am fully aware of the fact that there are a lot of unsuccessful teams in the NHL, A) i know, however that has nothing to do with the point, EVERY SUCCESSFUL team besides us has had an true enforcer in some form form and B) you were wrong about the Hurricanes, dead wrong. And to make things easier on you I am going to give you a cake walk. Name one playoff team the last 10 years besides us that did not have an enforcer at some capacity or another throughout the year? I'll be waiting.

Edited September 24, 2007 by sticknmove

[norrisnick 1]

Be honest - was ice hockey 1 of those sports?

I've already stated that I haven't played hockey. Hell, it was inferred in that post you just quoted. Try and keep up.

You mention contributing defensively, well...does hitting and fighting not mean anything to you? Are these not contributions? By my count, thats 2 categories for Downey vs 1 for those guys! And thats IF they play decent defensively. Ellis and Hartigan offer nothing, just like Langfeld last season. What purpose did he serve playing all those games? ZERO. Is Brian McGrattan better offensively and defensively than every other guy on the Senators? How about George Parros? How about a boatload of other fighters in the NHL? It seems only the Wings organization feels the way you do, doesnt that strike you as odd?

Where were Parros and McGrattan in the playoffs? In the stands. Doesn't it say something about the importance of these guys when all the other organizations put them on the shelf when the real games begin? Why bother with the carnival if they're not going to play in the important games? That's 50-odd regular season games and $500K that could go to a player that might actually see playoff games.

In the 2005-2006 campaign Carolina had Jesse Boulerice under contract. Jesse has been plying his trade in the NHL since 2001-2002. The Hurricanes sent him to the AHL where he stayed last year. He's fighting for an NHL job in Philadelphia this preseason, but let's get back to the 2005-2006 season you mention.

Here is Jesse's fight card from 2005-2006 as per http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/435/fightcard/reg2006

Ryan Vandenbussche

Brian McGrattan (x2)

Eric Boulton

Jason Strudwick

Jody Shelley

Just because Carolina didn't give Jesse much ice time doesn't mean that Carolina didn't carry an enforcer. I'm not going to argue over skill level or effectiveness. The fact is that Carolina had an enforcer on their roster and kept him with the NHL club the entire season they won the Stanley Cup.

The following season (2006-2007) they sent Jesse to the AHL. That would be the season after their championship, the season they failed to make the playoffs. Kind of suggests the psychological advantage thing you keep reading about in these forums may actually have some merit eh? I know you don't get it because this knowledge is borne from experience, rather than facts.

So let us just stick to the facts. You are wrong.

Pete

Not my fault NHL.com lied to me.

1 Mike Commodore D CAR 72 138 49 4 1 1 0

2 Eric Staal C CAR 82 81 38 1 0 0 0

3 Doug Weight C CAR 70 75 35 1 0 0 0

4 Rod Brind'Amour C CAR 78 68 34 0 0 0 0

5 Mark Recchi R CAR 83 68 34 0 0 0 0

6 Aaron Ward D CAR 71 62 31 0 0 0 0

7 Justin Williams R CAR 82 60 30 0 0 0 0

8 Bret Hedican D CAR 74 58 29 0 0 0 0

9 Erik Cole L CAR 60 54 27 0 0 0 0

10 Craig Adams R CAR 67 51 13 3 1 0 0

11 Glen Wesley D CAR 64 46 23 0 0 0 0

12 Frantisek Kaberle D CAR 77 46 23 0 0 0 0

13 Ray Whitney L CAR 63 42 21 0 0 0 0

14 Niclas Wallin D CAR 50 42 21 0 0 0 0

15 Matt Cullen C CAR 78 40 20 0 0 0 0

16 Oleg Tverdovsky D CAR 72 37 16 1 0 0 0

17 Kevyn Adams C CAR 82 36 13 0 1 0 0

18 Chad Larose C CAR 49 35 10 1 1 0 0

19 Cory Stillman L CAR 72 32 16 0 0 0 0

20 Anton Babchuk D CAR 39 22 11 0 0 0 0

21 Andrew Hutchinson D CAR 36 18 9 0 0 0 0

22 Josef Vasicek C CAR 23 8 4 0 0 0 0

23 Keith Aucoin R CAR 7 4 2 0 0 0 0

24 Andrew Ladd L CAR 29 4 2 0 0 0 0

25 David Gove L CAR 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

According to their penalty breakdown for that season only Commodore and Adams had more than 2 majors (4 and 3 respectively). Apparently players that get shipped out aren't counted.

Then again, what does trading away your enforcer for a cup run tell you?

[sticknmove 0]

"I've already stated that I haven't played hockey. Hell, it was inferred in that post you just quoted. Try and keep up."

He was being sarcastic, it is painfully obvious you didn't play. You were wrong about Carolina, so next.... I am still waiting for a successful team that had NO enforcer type whatsoever for the entire year?

[norrisnick 1]

"I've already stated that I haven't played hockey. Hell, it was inferred in that post you just quoted. Try and keep up."

He was being sarcastic, it is painfully obvious you didn't play. You were wrong about Carolina, so next.... I am still waiting for a successful team that had NO enforcer type whatsoever for the entire year?

I never said there were many successful teams that had no enforcer. I'm merely saying that the correllation is not necessarily there.

There has never been a European captained team that has won the Cup. Does that mean we're screwed for the next decade or so? No. It's just one more of the many myths propagated by the Old Time Hockey Hoser Style Consortium.

The Wings have never won the Cup without engraving Howe on to the big shiny silver thing. What does that mean? We can't win without a Howe in our organization? Nope. Just a coincidence.

Enforcers are not a necessity for success. We made it to the Conference Finals without one (unless someone is going to freak out and bring up Norton's 5-6 games?). We didn't lose to the Ducks because they were bigger and tougher than us. Hell, we didn't even lose to the Ducks because they were better than us. Just didn't get the necessary bounces that a Cup winner invariably gets.

[Opie 308]

Sticknmove, bare with me here there is a point here, it just may take a minute to get there.

I am not sure you specifically have agreed to this point, but in this thread people have agreed that during the post season enforcer type people usually do not log a lot of minutes or in some cases even dress. Correct?

The Wings were 2 wins and I would say 2 goals from the cup or even two saves away (the offense doesn't deserve all of the blame). I also think that most of us will agree that whatever West Conference team was in the finals was going to win it all.

So had Detroit scored on a 5-3 or Lilja not hand over the puck to Selanne.... we have all heard it before; but they would have made it the finals.

So if the wings can manage to be in a tie for best record of the year with Buffalo, and make it to the wcf all without an enforcer, yet most people have conceded that an enforcer is not going to play a major role in the post season, why is it a necessity to have one?

I am not asking why you want one, I am not asking if the players would prefer one, why is it a necessity?

Saying every team that has ever won the cup has had one, is like me saying every team that has ever won the cup had an assistant coach.

Again bare with me for a minute.

Most teams have an enforcer on their roster, in fact as you pointed out (I believe it was you) every other team has one, except for Detroit. So the odds of a team winning a cup with an enforcer is highly likely seeing as 29 teams would have enforcers and only 1 would not.

And some of you are grabbing at straws when you include an enforcer on some of these teams. Jesse Boulerice, come one the dude had 6 fights. Does 6 fights make Lilja an enforcer. The description of his fights sound more like draws than wins. But I didn't see them so I can not say how they were imo, just going off of what I read.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it looks like you have the opinion that an enforcer is a necessity. I have changed my opinion (to a degree) about Downey being on this wings team. Put together an answer that will change my opinion about these question:

If enforcers are not going to be major contributors in the post season why would a team that was one of the top 5 all year, and top 2 at the end, need an enforcer?

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Where were Parros and McGrattan in the playoffs? In the stands. Doesn't it say something about the importance of these guys when all the other organizations put them on the shelf when the real games begin? Why bother with the carnival if they're not going to play in the important games? That's 50-odd regular season games and $500K that could go to a player that might actually see playoff games.

06/07 Playoff games -

Jiri Hudler - 6

George Parros - 5

Just sayin'...

Ottawa already had Chris Nei, along with a couple other toughs in the form of a Mike Fisher in every game. Anaheim already had May, Moen, as well as Shawn Thornton who served the SAME role as Parros and played 15. Dont forget that. These teams already had guys in addition to their enforcer who sat. The Wings have NOBODY. That is the point !!!!!!!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I never said there were many successful teams that had no enforcer. I'm merely saying that the correllation is not necessarily there.

There has never been a European captained team that has won the Cup. Does that mean we're screwed for the next decade or so? No. It's just one more of the many myths propagated by the Old Time Hockey Hoser Style Consortium.

The Wings have never won the Cup without engraving Howe on to the big shiny silver thing. What does that mean? We can't win without a Howe in our organization? Nope. Just a coincidence.

Enforcers are not a necessity for success. We made it to the Conference Finals without one (unless someone is going to freak out and bring up Norton's 5-6 games?). We didn't lose to the Ducks because they were bigger and tougher than us. Hell, we didn't even lose to the Ducks because they were better than us. Just didn't get the necessary bounces that a Cup winner invariably gets.

Nick, this is becoming laughable now. Your last comments about the Ducks are ridiculous. The Ducks were bigger, they were tougher and they won. Can you contribute their win to that solely or in part? I dunno, maybe. Bottom line is you would have us believe it is gospel that it didn't have an effect, which you cannot prove one way or the other. The only correlation that could be made is that their size played a part in beating us. One need only look at the numbers to see that. One need only look at the film to see how Lidstrom and our other dmen could not handle the size of guys like Moen and the strength of bigger guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Penner (all guys who fought at some point during the season or playoffs).

Are enforcers a necessity for success? Nope. But more teams that win the cup have them on their rosters than teams that don't.

If you want fighting stats + wins + cup wins + injuries + hits statistics just ask and i'll make your friggin head spin.

You think we can win without fighting or without having a true heavyweight on the roster (even if he doesn't see much playoff time), then show me the data that proves it. Over the past decade only 1 team has come close and that was Carolina winning with only Mike Commodore in the lineup. That's 10% for your argument vs 90% for the pro enforcer side. You're getting trashed and the more statistics you look up the more you'll get trashed in this debate.

[N4C3R 0]

Not my fault NHL.com lied to me. According to their penalty breakdown for that season only Commodore and Adams had more than 2 majors (4 and 3 respectively). Apparently players that get shipped out aren't counted.

NHL.com did not lie to you. You failed to provide facts to back up the verbal menstruation you spew forth in this thread. Knowing your facts is your responsibility. The fact you so casually and quickly decline taking responsibility tells me everything I need to know. You are still wrong, and I am done with you. TKO.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Sticknmove, bare with me here there is a point here, it just may take a minute to get there.

I am not sure you specifically have agreed to this point, but in this thread people have agreed that during the post season enforcer type people usually do not log a lot of minutes or in some cases even dress. Correct?

The Wings were 2 wins and I would say 2 goals from the cup or even two saves away (the offense doesn't deserve all of the blame). I also think that most of us will agree that whatever West Conference team was in the finals was going to win it all.

So had Detroit scored on a 5-3 or Lilja not hand over the puck to Selanne.... we have all heard it before; but they would have made it the finals.

So if the wings can manage to be in a tie for best record of the year with Buffalo, and make it to the wcf all without an enforcer, yet most people have conceded that an enforcer is not going to play a major role in the post season, why is it a necessity to have one?

I am not asking why you want one, I am not asking if the players would prefer one, why is it a necessity?

Saying every team that has ever won the cup has had one, is like me saying every team that has ever won the cup had an assistant coach.

Again bare with me for a minute.

Most teams have an enforcer on their roster, in fact as you pointed out (I believe it was you) every other team has one, except for Detroit. So the odds of a team winning a cup with an enforcer is highly likely seeing as 29 teams would have enforcers and only 1 would not.

And some of you are grabbing at straws when you include an enforcer on some of these teams. Jesse Boulerice, come one the dude had 6 fights. Does 6 fights make Lilja an enforcer. The description of his fights sound more like draws than wins. But I didn't see them so I can not say how they were imo, just going off of what I read.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it looks like you have the opinion that an enforcer is a necessity. I have changed my opinion (to a degree) about Downey being on this wings team. Put together an answer that will change my opinion about these question:

If enforcers are not going to be major contributors in the post season why would a team that was one of the top 5 all year, and top 2 at the end, need an enforcer?

I'll take a stab Opie.

In our particular case I don't see any reason why Downey can't play a regular shift for us in the playoffs. As a 4th line energy guy who has a respectable career +/- given his complete lack of scoring and no special teams play he has proven he's not a liability on the ice. There's no reason he can't play the energy roll, the 4th line guy who bangs the opposition to fire up our team. I feel he can do this in both the regular season and the playoffs.

Can all heavyweights do it? Nope. So your question about the necessity of an enforcer and the playoffs is dependent upon who the enforcer is.

[Opie 308]

GS&T

The problem I have and I think NN has, which gets people caught up and they start to argue and flame back and forth is this:

This is not a debate, this is an argument.

As soon as someone posts, I don't think the wings need an enforcer, the gates of hell open up and close minded people begin to belittle others. Unfortunately not all posters can post with an open mind. Most in fact will call you names the minute you have a different opinion.

Because NN doesn't want an enforcer and he never played hockey, he has no understanding of the history of the game, and knows nothing. Because the only way you can have that is if you played hockey. However when he refuted that with saying they hadn't played NHL level, so they didn't have the understanding, he again was belittled.

What about some one who never played hockey but wants and enforcer are they as naive to the history of the game?

Then people post things like "well the players say they want one."

Really has anyone ever polled all the players and said is an enforcer a necessary piece of your team.

This constant turning every thread into an enforcer argument is getting nauseating and if it continues I am going to start posting your favorite pic in all of them.

[norrisnick 1]

06/07 Playoff games -

Jiri Hudler - 6

George Parros - 5

Just sayin'...

Ottawa already had Chris Nei, along with a couple other toughs in the form of a Mike Fisher in every game. Anaheim already had May, Moen, as well as Shawn Thornton who served the SAME role as Parros and played 15. Dont forget that. These teams already had guys in addition to their enforcer who sat. The Wings have NOBODY. That is the point !!!!!!!

And lost a complete toss-up of a series in the conference finals. The horror!!!!

The Wings don't have anyone and don't NEED anyone for an enforcer. That is the point.

[norrisnick 1]

Nick, this is becoming laughable now. Your last comments about the Ducks are ridiculous. The Ducks were bigger, they were tougher and they won. Can you contribute their win to that solely or in part? I dunno, maybe. Bottom line is you would have us believe it is gospel that it didn't have an effect, which you cannot prove one way or the other. The only correlation that could be made is that their size played a part in beating us. One need only look at the numbers to see that. One need only look at the film to see how Lidstrom and our other dmen could not handle the size of guys like Moen and the strength of bigger guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Penner (all guys who fought at some point during the season or playoffs).

Are enforcers a necessity for success? Nope. But more teams that win the cup have them on their rosters than teams that don't.

If you want fighting stats + wins + cup wins + injuries + hits statistics just ask and i'll make your friggin head spin.

You think we can win without fighting or without having a true heavyweight on the roster (even if he doesn't see much playoff time), then show me the data that proves it. Over the past decade only 1 team has come close and that was Carolina winning with only Mike Commodore in the lineup. That's 10% for your argument vs 90% for the pro enforcer side. You're getting trashed and the more statistics you look up the more you'll get trashed in this debate.

The Ducks did not manhandle us. Franzen clears the puck in game 5, we win the series. Plain and simple. If that teensy tiny play can swing the series, how can you sit there and type all this crap about the big bad Ducks running roughshod over the Wings and we were powerless to stop them? It just isn't true. That game, and that series, was millimeters from going the other way.

To address your points of definitive stats... Can a team win with a European Captain? It's never happened before in the 90 year history of the league so it should be impossible, right? Nationality of your captain ranks right up there with having an enforcer on your team for reasons your team can, or cannot, win the Cup. It's just not relevant.

NHL.com did not lie to you. You failed to provide facts to back up the verbal menstruation you spew forth in this thread. Knowing your facts is your responsibility. The fact you so casually and quickly decline taking responsibility tells me everything I need to know. You are still wrong, and I am done with you. TKO.

For the love of Pete. I hope you didn't get any on the keyboard...

I sincerely apologize to the participants in this thread that I failed to account for Boulerice's vital contribution to the Hurricane's Cup run.... as he was packing up his Blues' sweater (or was it Rivermen by that point?).

[N4C3R 0]

And some of you are grabbing at straws when you include an enforcer on some of these teams. Jesse Boulerice, come one the dude had 6 fights.

Opie, are you stating that the number of fights determines enforcer status? Georges Laraque fought 8 times in 06/07, and 9 times in 05/06. Is he not an enforcer? Derek Boogaard only fought 10 times in 06/07. Brian McGrattan only fought 10 times last year. Is that enough to be an enforcer?

Jesse Boulerice has 49 Fighting Majors in the NHL over 4 seasons. His fight card includes just about every heavyweight enforcer in the league. I respectfully disagree with your assessment that he is not an enforcer based on the fact that he had 6 fights during the 05/06 season.

Pete

[Opie 308]

I'll take a stab Opie.

In our particular case I don't see any reason why Downey can't play a regular shift for us in the playoffs. As a 4th line energy guy who has a respectable career +/- given his complete lack of scoring and no special teams play he has proven he's not a liability on the ice. There's no reason he can't play the energy roll, the 4th line guy who bangs the opposition to fire up our team. I feel he can do this in both the regular season and the playoffs.

Can all heavyweights do it? Nope. So your question about the necessity of an enforcer and the playoffs is dependent upon who the enforcer is.

At this point in time GS&T hasn't Downey become an energy guy not an enforcer.

In that case the wings have Cleary, Franzen, Drake, and potentially Kopecky on the team?

If you are stating a case as Downey for an energy guy than all of my comments about him being an enforcer do not apply to your statements.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Ottawa already had Chris Nei, along with a couple other toughs in the form of a Mike Fisher in every game. Anaheim already had May, Moen, as well as Shawn Thornton who served the SAME role as Parros and played 15. Dont forget that. These teams already had guys in addition to their enforcer who sat. The Wings have NOBODY. That is the point !!!!!!!

Exactly what I was gonna say. The ducks nor the Sens needed Grats or Parros since they have tough guys in there line-up already.

If this were 96/97 and we had Kocur, McCarty, Lapointe, Shanny, Ward and Konstantinov, I wouldnt care who the hell was the 13th forward. In this case, we have Cleary, Drake, Maltby and Kopecky, so I do care.

Man oh man do I miss those old teams.

[N4C3R 0]

I sincerely apologize to the participants in this thread that I failed to account for Boulerice's vital contribution to the Hurricane's Cup run.... as he was packing up his Blues' sweater (or was it Rivermen by that point?).

http://www.hockeyfights.com/news/60680

Hurricanes Assign Boulerice, 10 Others to Albany

Tuesday, Sep. 26th, 2006

RALEIGH, NCâ€â€Jim Rutherford, President and General Manager of the 2006 Stanley Cup champion Carolina Hurricanes, today announced that 11 players from the team’s training camp have been sent to the Albany River Rats’ training camp. The Albany River Rats are the American Hockey League affiliate and the top farm club for the Hurricanes.

Goaltender Justin Peters, forwards Keith Aucoin, Jesse Boulerice, Patrick Dwyer, Dave Gove, Brad Isbister, Scott Kelman and Shane Willis, and defensemen Tim Conboy, J.D. Forrest and Derrick Walser, will join Albany’s training camp later this week. Twenty-five players remain in Carolina’s training camp, including Frantisek Kaberle and Cory Stillman who are each from off-season surgeries.

Once again you show us that you have no idea what you are talking about. Jesse Boulerice was under contract and played for Carolina the entire 2005-2006 season. That is the year that Carolina won the Stanley Cup. It wasn't until September 26th of 2006 that Boulerice was sent to Albany. That would be the year the Hurricanes missed the playoffs.

These are the facts, and you are still wrong.

Pete

[#1redwingfan 0]

i dont understand why all you guys want detroit to get a heavy weight? in the last while our team has been successful without one. we had mccarty who would drop but i wouldnt call him a heavyweight and we have maltby who is nasty but doesnt drop them a lot. we have drake who plays a gritty game. if you want to see fights why dont you become a leafs fan or something.

[norrisnick 1]

http://www.hockeyfights.com/news/60680

Once again you show us that you have no idea what you are talking about. Jesse Boulerice was under contract and played for Carolina the entire 2005-2006 season. That is the year that Carolina won the Stanley Cup. It wasn't until September 26th of 2006 that Boulerice was sent to Albany. That would be the year the Hurricanes missed the playoffs.

These are the facts, and you are still wrong.

Pete

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=23046

Click on the show trades button.

2006-Jan-30 Traded from Carolina Hurricanes with Mike Zigomanis, Magnus Kahnberg, round 1 pick in the 2006 draft (Matt Corrente), round 4 pick in the 2007 draft and round 4 pick in the 2006 draft (Reto Berra) to St. Louis Blues for Doug Weight and Erkki Rajamaki