Nice red wing article

[FunkedUp 29]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=Ah0v...p&type=lgns

Discuss....

[96Homer 0]

Red Wing article

Red Wings' buzz zapped by economy, lockout, high expectations

By LARRY LAGE, AP Sports Writer

September 29, 2007

DETROIT (AP) -- Not long ago, the Detroit Red Wings had the hottest ticket in town and flags with their winged-wheel logo were sticking out of car windows all over Michigan.

But the team's buzz is slowly fading.

It got so bad that five months ago, the Red Wings hosted games in the playoffs with rows and rows of available seats.

Hockeytown needs to get its groove back.

The organization has aggressively tried to market its once-popular product, dropping some ticket prices as low as $9 and plastering images and messages on billboards.

A week before the opener against the Stanley Cup champion Anaheim Ducks at Joe Louis Arena, a block of 15 seats was available -- at $44 apiece -- in a corner of the upper bowl.

"The No. 1 thing that has hurt us from a fan's standpoint is the Michigan economy," general manager Ken Holland said in an interview with The Associated Press.

The state has been rocked by a sagging automobile industry, but it didn't stop a record 3 million-plus fans from flocking to Comerica Park to watch the Tigers play in 2007.

It also didn't deter spectators from filling Ford Field, The Palace of Auburn Hills, Michigan or Spartan stadiums to support the Lions, Pistons, Wolverines and Spartans.

Unlike the other teams in the sports-crazed state, the Red Wings have had to deal with obstacles they couldn't control.

-- A lockout that canceled the 2004-05 season.

-- Steve Yzerman's retirement.

-- Reshaping a team that once looked like a Hall of Fame wing on ice.

"In hindsight, the work stoppage hurt us because some people found other things to do with their time and money," Holland said. "There's not a lot we could do about that, as an organization."

Captain Nicklas Lidstrom is one of the best players in NHL history, but the five-time Norris Trophy-winning defenseman doesn't sell tickets like "The Captain" did before retiring a little more than a year ago.

Yzerman just isn't quite the draw anymore as a team executive, watching games high atop Joe Louis Arena in a suit.

"That's true," he said with a chuckle.

Yzerman was one of several Hall of Fame-caliber players the Red Wings featured when they won three championships between 1997 and 2002.

"When we won the Cup in '02, we had Igor Larionov, Luc Robitaille and Tomas Holmstrom on the fourth line," Lidstrom said. "Fans have seen great players here for such a long time, they get to used to it."

Or spoiled.

Though the Red Wings no longer have a star-studded roster, they have accomplished quite a feat by staying very competitive despite having to slash about half their payroll two years ago.

After a string of early exits in the playoffs, Detroit was among the final four teams standing last season.

Shawn Ellis, a season-ticket holder, went to games early in the postseason only to pass on attending the Western Conference finals because of the steep price.

The 48-year-old Dearborn resident noticed the empty red seats at Joe Louis Arena, but he doesn't agree with those who think it was a reflection of the team's popularity.

"Is it a lack of interest in the Wings? I don't think it is as much that as it is the economy," he said. "It's also a statement that the lockout also had a lot to do with the empty seats."

Detroit's big move in the offseason was signing defenseman Brian Rafalski, a three-time All-Star born in Dearborn, but it didn't register as a splash with mainstream fans.

In some ways, the Red Wings seem to be a victim of their own success because they've won so much and have done it in spectacular ways with all-time greats. It seems almost impossible to duplicate the formula.

The Red Wings will try, of course.

"Our focus is on putting a good product on the ice," Holland said. "If we do that and get off to a good start, I would like to think we could get some of that buzz back about our team."

ok I guess someone beat me to it already or vice versa, mods can delete this one

[wadewing 0]

Are there really $9 tickets? I bought crappy seats to Wings/Wild in MN and they were about $50.

[amberlynn25 9]

yeah they have them you get them on game day.

[Kp-Wings 3]

When they start lowering ticket prices to reasonable rates, and stop alienating the fan base, things will improve. Until then, it won't.

They could try some different things. Such as having more then one open practice a season. Or some meet-and-greet with the players. Sometimes I'll run into a Wings player at GLSC arena in Fraser (like Chris Chelios, who's often there watching his own kids play), but other then that, the players really aren't very accessable to the fans. The team really doesn't do much in the way of PR stuff either, which hurts the fan base.

It's really quite a shame, too. For Detroit being the so-called "Hockeytown", the ownership sure doesn't make the team very accessable to the fans.

Edited September 29, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[rwfan007 18]

well, seeing as we sold out every regular season game, and not the playoffs means that playoff ticket prices were waaaaaaaaaay too expensive. Just because a team is in the playoffs doesn't mean you can double the price. Thats the main reason they didnt sell out. The wings are still a hot item in detroit, but the high brass doesnt know how to regulate ticket prices.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

well, seeing as we sold out every regular season game, and not the playoffs means that playoff ticket prices were waaaaaaaaaay too expensive. Just because a team is in the playoffs doesn't mean you can double the price. Thats the main reason they didnt sell out. The wings are still a hot item in detroit, but the high brass doesnt know how to regulate ticket prices.

For the most part I think they actually do know how to regulate ticket price (from a business perspective), this was just the first year they found the absolute limit of what fans are willing to pay. Every season prior though it seemed like they had it as expensive as possible but still selling out.

From a business perspective that's good. As a fan, not so much.

[Pucker 0]

Some truths already written here.

As a long time player and fan of hockey, I am having a hard time adjusting to the new NHL. Long gone are the days of Probert, Burr, and Kocer on the same team.

This is a "kind and gentle" NHL. And the expansion to so many teams has lowered the skill level too.

I am going to a couple of games this year, but it is not the same as it was 20 years ago.

[eva unit zero 271]

And the expansion to so many teams has lowered the skill level too.

False. The skill level of the average NHL 4th liner is the highest it's been in 40 years. More teams doesn't mean diluted talent pool when the talent pool is expanding more rapidly than the league, as is the case with the NHL. If we assume a couple things; being that Canadian hockey is at the same level now as it was in 1987, and that the proportions of American and European players to Canadians stays the same as you go into lower leagues...then that means there are almost 800 players who are good enough to have been considered NHL-level based on the 21-team league in 1987, based on the reduction of Canadian NHL players from about 425 to about 385 despite the increase from about 450 to about 700 total NHL players...as you can see, almost 100 NHL-caliber guys are now left out. For the talent level to have been diluted, that would mean Canadian hockey has declined considerably; if it is to be assumed that the talent level would be the same as 1987 if 9 teams were removed, that would mean there would only be about 250 Canadians in the NHL, meaning a HUGE decline in Canadian hockey.

[Cicada 4]

you could have learn't everything ni that article reading this board at the playoffs last year...

[BlakChamber 8]

There's no one single reason the Wings aren't the draw they were 5-10 years ago. I think its a combination of:

-Bad local (and statewide) economy.

-Expensive tickets.

-Long time fan favorites leaving the team.

-Not a fan-friendly organization, in terms of promotions.

-The Tigers getting good again and the success of the Pistons.

-The lockout.

Add all those things together, it's not a real surprise that the Wings are in the situation they're in.

[auxlepli 17]

Those are very good points BlakChamber. I'm inclined to agree with you.

Edited September 30, 2007 by auxlepli

[Barrie 900]

I think it's healthy for a team like the Wings to go through something like this. It keeps the ownership accountable to the fans.

There's one thing I would like to say about the players not being as fan accessable as other teams. There would have been massive crowds if guys like Yzerman, Shanahan, McCarty, Fedorov, Hull, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Chelios, etc. were ever at an off ice event for the fans. These guys were like rock stars and I'm sure it would have been a nightmare for the City and Police to control the fans. Honestly if there would have been a off ice Red Wings event downtown, it would have drawn over 100,000 people. Look at the crowds they'd get at Training Camp. Our team from 1996-2004 was almost to popular.

[auxlepli 17]

Somebody mentioned in another thread the division heavy schedule. That's a very good point too. Has anybody posted that they like it?

[BlakChamber 8]

I think it's healthy for a team like the Wings to go through something like this. It keeps the ownership accountable to the fans.

There's one thing I would like to say about the players not being as fan accessable as other teams. There would have been massive crowds if guys like Yzerman, Shanahan, McCarty, Fedorov, Hull, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Chelios, etc. were ever at an off ice event for the fans. These guys were like rock stars and I'm sure it would have been a nightmare for the City and Police to control the fans. Honestly if there would have been a off ice Red Wings event downtown, it would have drawn over 100,000 people. Look at the crowds they'd get at Training Camp. Our team from 1996-2004 was almost to popular.

They've done off ice events for the fans. They were called Stanley Cup parades

[Barrie 900]

They've done off ice events for the fans. They were called Stanley Cup parades

yeah and those drew over 1Million every time.

Imagine during 1995-2004 if they had a Red Wings Fest at Cobo before Training Camp? Downtown would have been nuts!! Off ice events are used to promote the team, and the team during those years didn't need any extra promotion.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I think it's healthy for a team like the Wings to go through something like this. It keeps the ownership accountable to the fans.

There's one thing I would like to say about the players not being as fan accessable as other teams. There would have been massive crowds if guys like Yzerman, Shanahan, McCarty, Fedorov, Hull, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Chelios, etc. were ever at an off ice event for the fans. These guys were like rock stars and I'm sure it would have been a nightmare for the City and Police to control the fans. Honestly if there would have been a off ice Red Wings event downtown, it would have drawn over 100,000 people. Look at the crowds they'd get at Training Camp. Our team from 1996-2004 was almost to popular.

So far, it's had no effect on Illitch yet though.

Apparently they were still charging full price tickets for certain pre-season games. Nobody wants to pay $52 to watch the Rangers AHL team.

The Red Wings organization is so un-fan friendly, it's unbelieveable that they still call Detroit "Hockeytown". And it's the damn sad truth, too. Regular season games at the Joe have become so lame and boring. The PR staff barely promotes the team. Off ice events are so few and far between that usually a solar eclipse is going on the same day. We'd be lucky to attend at least 2 open practices a season, because usually they only have 1.

In my opinion, there a few simple solutions they could follow:

1. Lower the damn ticket prices. The biggest fault as to why we couldn't sell out any playoff games, and for the past few seasons, even sold-out playoff games still show empty seats. People, especially the average middle-class working man, don't want to pay $250-$300 for a single ticket to a one-night event.

I understand Illitch has his own personal expenses, but he's not poor. He doesn't have to completely rob people of their life savings just to attend a Red Wings game. With $52 tickets, $15 for parking, $8 beers, over $25 in a decent sized meal, and at least $20-$50 for any good souvenirs (depending on how much you buy), you're looking to spend at least $150 on a regular season game. This is regular season. Playoffs are a whole other story.

Unless Illitch leads some secret double life that has not been made public, he doesn't need to charge that much for attending games and merchandise. He's not poor. If he can afford to run 2 professional sports franchise's, a large Pizza company, and a large Casino, he must have some money he can spend.

2. Market the team more. Honestly, unless you're watching the game on TV at that moment or within 5 miles of the Joe, you would be extremely lucky to see any advertisements about the Wings.

3. Make the team more fan-friendly. This is called "Hockeytown", so start living up to that name. Have more off ice events, such as player meet and greets, open practices, autograph signings, that sort of thing. It doesn't cost that much money to hold these events, at least not for a man like Illitch. You know, unless I run into a Wings player on my own (I occasionally see Chelios at GLSC arena in Fraser), it's pretty much impossible to get an autograph or even talk to a player. And really, it's quite a shame that the organization chooses to keep such a distance between the players and the fans.

This isn't the 90's anymore. The Red Wings are no longer the most popular item in town. Despite the Tigers missing the playoffs this year, they've still clearly got the stranglehold on Detroit sports now, and it should remain that way for a long time. The Pistons have a great following. And no matter how bad the Lions will continue to be, they will never lose fans.

It doesn't take that much to do what I suggested. Unless, of course, there are things we don't know about Illitch, and he is for whatever reason incapable of doing these things with the Wings.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Tane 17]

Ticket Prices are too high for a good team that people don't Believe will win the Cup.....94-04, every year detroit fans Expected to win the cup, and was in love with that team. Since 02, we've seen playoff exit after playoff exit to teams that wern't supposed to be good. We're used to losing against less than teams in the playoffs, and until they prove they can win it all, it's not worth twice as much to watch us in the season that we're not as good in.

Popularity of the Tigers and Pistons. Back in 94-02 The Pistons and the Tigers sucked. If the Lions can put something together, watch out. Wings were hockey town when, in a MAJOR sports town, they were the only team that was winning. NOw that there are 2 other teams that are contenders, Detroit isn't Red Wings Crazy anymore.

The Loss of our Big name players also has something to do with it. This isnt' the Hall of Fame team that we used to be, But they're still charging us as if it was. I think it'd almost be best if we could suck again, that way, the REal Fans could afford to go to more games.

As far as PR is Concerned, Does anybody remember REd Wings Fan fest? Then It Got Renamed to REd Wings Rally? I went maybe 3-4 years, when I was 10-13/14, from 1994 till 1996 or 97. It was Held at Joe louis, it was an all day event, there were Different wings, Past Present and Future signing around the arena, in the concession booths, there were players in the penalty box taking pictures, they had some Jr.Wings (OHL) there, they had hall of fame set ups all throughout the ice ( which was Cemented for the event. The Line ups were long for Autographs, But I always looked forward to it, and all the Big names like Yzerman, Fedorov, Vernon, Osgood etc. were there.

Some of the Autographs that I got there that I cherish are - Osgood, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, McCarty, Yan Golubovski, Martin Lapointe, Dino Ciccarelli and Shawn Burr

[Barrie 900]

It doesn't take that much to do what I suggested. Unless, of course, there are things we don't know about Illitch, and he is for whatever reason incapable of doing these things with the Wings.

The last 10 years he hasn't had to. If tickets still go unsold, I'm sure he'll make changes. Illitch is a very successful business man, so he knows how and when to market his product(s). Give it time.....

[Gizmo 21]

I think the "It's the economy" excuse is overstated. As others have pointed out, the Tigers managed to set an attendance record in the same sucky economy. I think it's due to the reduced "buzz" over things like the loss of Yzerman and Shanny no longer can support sure fire sell-outs at current price points of the tickets.

Edited: That's interesting.... I didn't start this thread, but only responded to it, however now I'm the only poster! Odd...

Edited October 3, 2007 by Gizmo

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Its a mixture of a bunch of things. The economy is a big part of it I think but its not the complete reason. Comparing to the Tigers tho is a bit off since one can get 3 tickets to a Tigers game for the cost of one Wings ticket.

[toby91_ca 620]

Edited: That's interesting.... I didn't start this thread, but only responded to it, however now I'm the only poster! Odd...

It's because the topic starter didn't actually post anything beyond starting the thread. His/her question was in the title of the thread.

For the record, it was their first post on this site (joined today).

[proc 0]

It's because the topic starter didn't actually post anything beyond starting the thread. His/her question was in the title of the thread.

For the record, it was their first post on this site (joined today).

That post was probably from me...I got an database/SQL error when I tried to post my first post. It took the topic header but not the message.