20 replies to this topic

[RedWingsFever]

http://sports.espn.g...mp;sportCat=ncb


What a crazy upset here. And definitely a bigger upset than the App. State upset over Big Blue. Cause if we all remember, App. State won it with basically a last second field goal. But with this game, not only did Gardener-Webb beat Kentucky(in Kentucky) but they kicked their ass. (84-68) We all might not be able to agree on the whole  Michigan/App. State and Michigan State/gvsu thing. But I think we can all agree that this upset may be the biggest in a long, long time. Thank God it doesn't involve another team from Michigan.  

[timothy1997]

http://sports.espn.g...mp;sportCat=ncb
What a crazy upset here. And definitely a bigger upset than the App. State upset over Big Blue. Cause if we all remember, App. State won it with basically a last second field goal. But with this game, not only did Gardener-Webb beat Kentucky(in Kentucky) but they kicked their ass. (84-68) We all might not be able to agree on the whole Michigan/App. State and Michigan State/gvsu thing. But I think we can all agree that this upset may be the biggest in a long, long time. Thank God it doesn't involve another team from Michigan.

I agree with you on this one. This upset counts and watching that game, you just knew that G-Webb wanted this game more. Oh and Michigan fans...Gardener Webb hails from North Carolina. The same North Carolina that also holds Appy State.

[BlakChamber]

Damn. And Kentucky just paid Billy G big bucks to leave A&M.

[betterREDthandead]

I agree with you on this one. This upset counts and watching that game, you just knew that G-Webb wanted this game more. Oh and Michigan fans...Gardener Webb hails from North Carolina. The same North Carolina that also holds Appy State.

Well, that changes everything.

[timothy1997]

Well, that changes everything.

yup. let the invasion of North Carolina begin.

[mannysBETTER3434]

This is bigger then App State. App State was defending Nati Champs, and G-Webb was pixed 9th (ninth!!) in their conference. Plus they kicked UK's butt. What a shocker! This basketball season could get crazier then this years college football season.

[timothy1997]

This is bigger then App State. App State was defending Nati Champs, and G-Webb was pixed 9th (ninth!!) in their conference. Plus they kicked UK's butt. What a shocker! This basketball season could get crazier then this years college football season.

Not sure about that. North Carolina is #1 on most rankings and are well deserving. They are a complete team and going to be tough to stop. Memphis is going to be good too. They return 10 of their top 11 scorers and also have Derrick Rose, one of the best freshman on their team. IMO, you can pencil those teams in the final four this year.

[jaytan]

I don't know if this is bigger than App State. For one, it's college basketball, and there are crazy upsets in their tournament for chrissakes. Two, it's really early in the season for a sport that lets you lose almost half of your games and still be eligible to compete in said tournament.

[Hockeytown Red Wings]

Yeah, as much as Michigan fans might be ready to be off the radar. to me this still isn't close just because it's basketball. It happens in basketball fairly often, I mean we've had three "WTF" games in the last week.

[Lou_Siffer]

Agree with the last 2 posters. Its not bigger than Mich/App St because its basketball, and crazy upsets are alot more common. In basketball, on any given night a team can just have the game of thier life and nail all their shots left and right....with football you cant just be lucky like that. Hell, you can basically ride two hot shooters and win a game. With football, it takes a full team effort of alot more players. The difference in talent level between schools is much harder to overcome in football than in basketball.

[eva unit zero]

Agree with the last 2 posters. Its not bigger than Mich/App St because its basketball, and crazy upsets are alot more common. In basketball, on any given night a team can just have the game of thier life and nail all their shots left and right....with football you cant just be lucky like that. Hell, you can basically ride two hot shooters and win a game. With football, it takes a full team effort of alot more players. The difference in talent level between schools is much harder to overcome in football than in basketball.

I agree.
That said, Why hasn't anyone mentioned Stanford v USC....and why the hell did USC stay in the top 15 after that BS?

[Kp-Wings]

nvm

Edited by Kp-Wings, 09 November 2007 - 11:27 PM.

[Lou_Siffer]

I agree.
That said, Why hasn't anyone mentioned Stanford v USC....and why the hell did USC stay in the top 15 after that BS?

Because they were #1 (i think...) and also had the track record of being a top notch team behind them. Because theyre great every year they get a little benefit of the doubt. Michigan hasnt been USC, and although Appalachian could probably beat Stanford its still the 1A vs 1AA thing.

One more thing about why a basketball upset isnt as big as football. Its similar to baseball, where even the worst college team can ride the arm of 1 great starting pitcher on any given day and beat one of the best teams. You cant do these things in football, you have to have a full 30 man or whatever effort.

[eva unit zero]

Because they were #1 (i think...) and also had the track record of being a top notch team behind them. Because theyre great every year they get a little benefit of the doubt. Michigan hasnt been USC, and although Appalachian could probably beat Stanford its still the 1A vs 1AA thing.

One more thing about why a basketball upset isnt as big as football. Its similar to baseball, where even the worst college team can ride the arm of 1 great starting pitcher on any given day and beat one of the best teams. You cant do these things in football, you have to have a full 30 man or whatever effort.

USC was a 41 point favorite. Michigan was a 27 point favorite. Both teams lost by a slim margin When USC lost, people called it the biggest upset ever; bigger than Appy State/UM.

That would suggest USC should have dropped by at least the 20 spots Michigan dropped by, yes? Instead, they dropped 8 spots in the AP poll and 6 in the coaches. Had Michigan dropped an average of 7 spots, the way the poll works, they'd probably be in the top ten right now. USC was 42 points below where they were 'supposed' to be...Michigan was 29 points below. Michigan was not expected to kill Appy State as badly as USC was supposed to kill Stanford, the final scores were basically the same, yet Michigan was punished harder. Why is that? Oh, right...because USC is an overrated media darling.

[Lou_Siffer]

USC was a 41 point favorite. Michigan was a 27 point favorite. Both teams lost by a slim margin When USC lost, people called it the biggest upset ever; bigger than Appy State/UM.

That would suggest USC should have dropped by at least the 20 spots Michigan dropped by, yes? Instead, they dropped 8 spots in the AP poll and 6 in the coaches. Had Michigan dropped an average of 7 spots, the way the poll works, they'd probably be in the top ten right now. USC was 42 points below where they were 'supposed' to be...Michigan was 29 points below. Michigan was not expected to kill Appy State as badly as USC was supposed to kill Stanford, the final scores were basically the same, yet Michigan was punished harder. Why is that? Oh, right...because USC is an overrated media darling.

USC was regarded, and justifiably so, as being better than Michigan. Just because they were a bigger favorite in their game doesnt mean they should drop the same amount as UM. We're talking about a consistent championship contender for the past what, 5 years? Its only natural they would be cut more slack...I dont see what the problem is. Its an opinion poll, just because USC lost to Stanford wont make everyone suddenly believe there are 20 teams better than the Trojans. Its all about perception, UM didnt have the recognition that USC did. You may not agree, but thats the benefit of being a consistently great team.

[timothy1997]

USC was a 41 point favorite. Michigan was a 27 point favorite. Both teams lost by a slim margin When USC lost, people called it the biggest upset ever; bigger than Appy State/UM.

That would suggest USC should have dropped by at least the 20 spots Michigan dropped by, yes? Instead, they dropped 8 spots in the AP poll and 6 in the coaches. Had Michigan dropped an average of 7 spots, the way the poll works, they'd probably be in the top ten right now. USC was 42 points below where they were 'supposed' to be...Michigan was 29 points below. Michigan was not expected to kill Appy State as badly as USC was supposed to kill Stanford, the final scores were basically the same, yet Michigan was punished harder. Why is that? Oh, right...because USC is an overrated media darling.

someone seriously has to take the maize and blue goggles off. The point spread is a matter of opinion.

USC losing to Stanford is different than Michigan losing to Appy State for several reasons.

#1 Stanford was a conference game, Stanford is a Divison 1 team. Appy State is not a conference game and not even a Divison 1 team.

#2 Lets look at the previous seasons for USC and Michigan.

2002 USC Trojans 11-2
2003 USC Trojans 12-1
2004 USC Trojans 13-0
2005 USC Trojans 12-1
2006 USC Trojans 11-2


2002 Michigan 10-3
2003 Michigan 10-3
2004 Michigan 9-3
2005 Michigan 7-5
2006 Michigan 11-2

Yup. USC clearly has been a better team. Like Lou said, they get more slack due to being USC.

#3 Pros and Cons of when you lose.

If you lose early...
Pro: You can recover easier. Look at Michigan overcoming an 0-2 start to move all the way back into the top 12 as example
Con: Media hasn't got a chance to see what your capable of so you might drop further.

If you lose midway thru the season
Pro: Media has already seen what your capable of so you might have some slack. USC when they loss, already had a big win against undefeated Nebraska at the time. Albeit Nebraska turned out to be not as good as advertised after the game.
Cons: Everyone is pretty much granted 1-loss in order to still be eligable for a BCS bowl, but depending on who you lost too..you might not be able to overcome. If Kansas would have lost to say...Kansas State....do you think they would be a top 5 team?? Probably not even a top 10 team. The Jayhawks have played no one to this point.

If you lose late...
Pros: If you won your conference or align yourself with a "doesn't matter" game like Michigan's loss to Wisconsin was and how the Wolverines can still win the big ten despite losing that game, is the only way that can be a pro.
Cons: Nearly impossible to overcome if you loss late. Look at last year as example. Michigan might have been well deserving of being the 2nd best team in the country after losing to Ohio State, but its all about when you lost that cost them any shot at the National Championship.

Hope that clears up some things Eva.

Edited by timothy1997, 11 November 2007 - 08:40 AM.

[Lou_Siffer]

Good post timothy. Youre exactly right on in how getting upset early like that will make you drop further. When you lose your first game like that, everyone says hey...maybe this team is no good this year. So they plummet in the rankings. Also one more thing regarding the pointspreads....you cant use this as a guage to determine which upsets are bigger. Pointspeads are used to even out betting money. Michigan is a team that is known not to run the score up, and typically doesnt annihilate weak opponents by really big margins. Had UM been giving App St 41, way too much money wouldve gone in that direction. Michigan is a running team, that would be a terrible bet. Just 27 though makes it a tough call. USC on the other hand, shows no mercy and will continue piling it on even when up by 40. Them beating a team by 60pts is a likely scenario. Add on to that the fact Harbaugh mouthed off a little about USC and you had all the makings of a merciless destruction...hence the 40 pt spread. That high of a spread made more people bet with Stanford just because.....and that is the point of the spreads.

[eva unit zero]

Ok, then how about the widespread comments from 'experts' calling Stanford a bigger upset?

If that was the case, why did USC REMAIN IN THE TOP TEN?

[Lou_Siffer]

Both were massive upsets, I dont dispute that. Hell, after Michigan lost to Oregon i was beginning to wonder if App St was even an upset at all! But with the way things turned out, it does go down as the biggest imo. But the point is, even if we agreed that the two upsets were of equal nature, it still doesnt change the fact that a Division II team walked into the Big House and won. It does not matter who's better between Stanford and App St, it will ALWAYS boil down to the stigma of UM losing to a Div II squad. As for USC remaining in the top 10, its for all the reasons already given by myself and timothy.

[eva unit zero]

Both were massive upsets, I dont dispute that. Hell, after Michigan lost to Oregon i was beginning to wonder if App St was even an upset at all! But with the way things turned out, it does go down as the biggest imo. But the point is, even if we agreed that the two upsets were of equal nature, it still doesnt change the fact that a Division II team walked into the Big House and won. It does not matter who's better between Stanford and App St, it will ALWAYS boil down to the stigma of UM losing to a Div II squad. As for USC remaining in the top 10, its for all the reasons already given by myself and timothy.

I fail to see why last year's success for USC has any bearing on why they didn't drop out of the top ten after being upset by a 40 point underdog. A logical thought process says that shouldn't be the case.

Also, Appalachian State received as many as 19 points in the AP top 25 poll two weeks after the upset. Stanford had four the week following, then disappeared. That would suggest that afterwards, Appy State was viewed as better than Stanford...yet USC was still in the top ten and Michigan was unranked? It doesn't boil down to 'well, USC had sustained success' it boils down to the fact that it has become a popular thing to disrespect Big Ten football. Seriously. TEN teams in the Big Ten are bowl eligible. That matches the twelve-team SEC, which is supposedly the greatest thing college football has ever seen. The ACC has seven, the Big East and Pac-10 have five. Yet the Big Ten is talked about like it's some disgrace to college football.