union drone 0 Report post Posted November 21, 2007 They do have something above the Norris Trophy. It's called the Hart trophy, and it's high time Lidstrom started getting consideration for one. I seem to remember last year at mid-season some sports writers were having their midway awards speculation. Lidstrom was actually getting some love in the Hart predictions. If Lids had been as dominant in the second half as he was in the first, he might have been a finalist. Of course, there is a certain 19 year old that would have won it anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted November 22, 2007 Lidstrom is still a top 3 Dman? What are you talking about? He's the best defenseman in the league no doubt about it. He has made some mistakes this year that you don't normally see him make, but he's still the frontrunner for the Norris trophy. When you're the best, that to me screams out A+ any season. Nope. Sergei Zubov has been better than Nick this year. ..and I wouldnt be surprised if Niedermayer would be playing better than Nick if he were still in it. He was only a hair shy of Lidstroms calibre last year. So yeah, top 3 Dman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
union drone 0 Report post Posted November 22, 2007 Nope. Sergei Zubov has been better than Nick this year. ..and I wouldnt be surprised if Niedermayer would be playing better than Nick if he were still in it. He was only a hair shy of Lidstroms calibre last year. So yeah, top 3 Dman. Zubov better than Nick this year?! By what measure? They have similar offensive stats, and Nick is FAR better defensively than Zubov. Case in point: Nick is +14, Zubov is +1. Even if Nick doesn't score any points, he's still extremely valuable. If Zubov doesn't score, he isn't worth all that much...except maybe as a decoy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted November 22, 2007 Zubov better than Nick this year?! By what measure? They have similar offensive stats, and Nick is FAR better defensively than Zubov. Case in point: Nick is +14, Zubov is +1. Even if Nick doesn't score any points, he's still extremely valuable. If Zubov doesn't score, he isn't worth all that much...except maybe as a decoy. Case in point where stats arent everything. You should watch some Stars games. Zubov has easily been the MVP on a Stars team that is struggling with their identity. Hes had to compensate in basically all areas of the game where Dallas excels at none. He could be playing the best hockey of his career..and that includes BOTH ends of the ice. (P.S. Mike Modano is a team worst -9 while Mike Ribeiro is a team best +9. +/- sure is a real good indicator of defensive strength, eh?) Oh yeah, and in general, saying that Zubov isnt worth anything if he isnt scoring proves why you shouldnt even bother debating about a player who you clearly dont watch enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
union drone 0 Report post Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) Case in point where stats arent everything. You should watch some Stars games. Zubov has easily been the MVP on a Stars team that is struggling with their identity. Hes had to compensate in basically all areas of the game where Dallas excels at none. He could be playing the best hockey of his career..and that includes BOTH ends of the ice. (P.S. Mike Modano is a team worst -9 while Mike Ribeiro is a team best +9. +/- sure is a real good indicator of defensive strength, eh?) I don't doubt that Zubov is a quality player and that he has been a bright spot for the Stars. It is also true that stats don't always tell the whole story. At the same time, however, plus-minus is one of the better indicators of a players' two way performance. The limitation of plus-minus is that a good two way player can have a mediocre +/- score because the team is doing lousy as a whole, so I understand where you are coming from. On the other hand, if Ribeiro is +9 on a lackluster Dallas team, he must be doing something right, depite all the flack he gets for his defensive abilities. Modano's play thus far and his demotion to the 4th line seems to indicate that his -9 rating is well deserved. Ultimately, despite a few uncharacteristic mistakes that he has made this year, I don't think that there is (yet) any defenseman who could rightfully claim to be better all-around than Lidstrom. There might be a few that could challenge him, but I don't see any that could say that they are better. Zubov would have to continue his scoring pace AND have a career year defensively to get there. Just my humble opinion... Edit: P.S. I should probably watch more Stars games to say for sure what the situation is. Zubov has been known to be pretty questionable at times defensively. Maybe he is elevating his game this year. Edited November 22, 2007 by union drone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kutcher 0 Report post Posted November 22, 2007 4th Line Minutes? how many points do you expect? Broken Cheekbone, How good are you going to be? Beggining of the year when he fought Perry and was making a gritty performance everyone was riding his cock. now that he is a broken cheekbone and isnt playing like he would without the cage he is a worthless old fart.-6? big woot.. Draper our leader of our 3rd line is breaking an even -0-. the +/- is worthless imo. He's being out played by someone much better at his job. How is the +/- worthless, it shows that everytime he is on the ice he's a liability. If he was playing goodI wouldn't have a problem but he's playing bad and Downey is better at the 4th liner role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
