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stevkrause

Even when Drake is 100% - Why not Downey full time?

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NAME GP G A PTS +/- PIM PPG PPA SHG SHA SOG SPCT

Aaron Downey 9 0 0 0 1 16 0 0 0 0 2 0.00%

Dallas Drake 14 0 1 1 -6 19 0 0 0 0 5 0.00%

Downey can DEFINITELY drop the mitts better, adds the same checking and grit presence (if not better imo) and is seeming to be less of a defensive liability at this point in the year...

I know Drake has been bumped up, but also, we seem to just play larger when Downey is in there... I think he deserves a slot until he proves he's lost it.

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It seems like Drake has more of a potential role on the PK than Downey ever will, but at the same time we already have some of the best PK guys around...I'd rather play Downey based on the other factors.

Oh, and Drake's -6 doesn't help either.

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Drake's experience makes him more versatile but his performance to this point has been a little disappointing.

Downey is bringing more energy when he plays and it seems to give the rest of the team a bit of a boost so I have to agree with the OP.

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Aside from the -6, those numbers really don't help the argument, but I must say I'm more entertained when Downey is out there

what else do you need to see - That is a HUGE indicator, this is suppose to be a defensive minded slot/forward a -6 is a pretty damn big deal...

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what else do you need to see - That is a HUGE indicator, this is suppose to be a defensive minded slot/forward a -6 is a pretty damn big deal...

Pretty big deal or someone on another line knows how to line change effectively enough to screw others... +/- is not the best indicator...

Whose to say chris chelios didn't cough up the puck on a line change and as soon as Sir Dallas got on the ice the other team scored!

BAD CHRIS!

Edited by OsGOD

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I like both Drake and Downey, but I think I'd rather see Downey playing over Drake. Downey is young, so we can snuff him on minuites and he won't hurt the team's rhythm. However, Drake doesn't fit in with the team motif (the -6 that leads us by a long shot is enough to prove this). I was worried that when we signed Drake that he would be coming into a system that doesn't play his style of hockey. So why Downey over Drake? Simply because Downey is younger and more apt to adapt.

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Drake has much more to offer than Downey (especially when not playing with a shield).

Admittedly he hasn't been great so far this season.

Still, Drake's played twice the minutes of Downey and 5 more games. If Babs had Downey out there as much as Drake, his numbers would likely be similar or worse. But Babcock smartly has picked his spots with Downey.

I've never been a huge fan of the guy, but hopefully Drake will get healthy and get his game back together. The best situation would be for Drake to be playing well AND have Downey out there picking up some minutes too.

EDITED: meant to say when NOT playing with a shield.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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It seems like Drake has more of a potential role on the PK than Downey ever will, but at the same time we already have some of the best PK guys around...I'd rather play Downey based on the other factors.

Oh, and Drake's -6 doesn't help either.

Like others commented on the +- issue, it's not perfect but it's not a useless stat either. It has merit obviously.

That said it doesn't worry me much with Drake. I think people overlook that he's probably a better skater than Downey and has more speed, but the games where we need some noise made, it's really no question who gets the nod.

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I like both Drake and Downey, but I think I'd rather see Downey playing over Drake. Downey is young, so we can snuff him on minuites and he won't hurt the team's rhythm. However, Drake doesn't fit in with the team motif (the -6 that leads us by a long shot is enough to prove this). I was worried that when we signed Drake that he would be coming into a system that doesn't play his style of hockey. So why Downey over Drake? Simply because Downey is younger and more apt to adapt.

only on the Wings could a 33 year old be called young. :P

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Drake. I wouldnt mind like 60/40 Drake/Downey switching off and on. BUT.

Downey is a role player, you can ask any thing else of him

Drake. Previous NHL Captain, Knows how to lead, Knows the hockey in's and outs alot better then Downey, Drake provides more then just Grit, i guarentee if you had drake in on 4th line all year he'd get 15-20 Points. You put Downey in all yaer he would get maybe 5-10..

Drake is better. But my man love for Downey still exists.

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Drake. I wouldnt mind like 60/40 Drake/Downey switching off and on. BUT.

Downey is a role player, you can ask any thing else of him

Drake. Previous NHL Captain, Knows how to lead, Knows the hockey in's and outs alot better then Downey, Drake provides more then just Grit, i guarentee if you had drake in on 4th line all year he'd get 15-20 Points. You put Downey in all yaer he would get maybe 5-10..

Drake is better. But my man love for Downey still exists.

I think a big mis-conception of this post is that Downey is a better player - I think Drake is infinitely better in many ways and yes, does offer leadership and a mini-scoring punch as well... but we're missing some facts - we do not need this from our 4th line... we need STRONG defense and someone who will make opponents accountable and draw penalties - a la Downey. Look at the penalties he's drawn and what he adds to the team, we HAVE leaders, we HAVE scorers, we need someone who adds those other intangibles - I like the way the REST of the team plays when Downey is in the lineup and that alone is reason to put him in in my opinion.

Edited by stevkrause

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but we're missing some facts - we do not need this from our 4th line...

I also was thinking that when sizing the two up, if it were the third line maybe.. but all the same, every bit matters. It matters less on the 4th line but general skill still matters.

And Babs doles out more minutes to Drake anyway, so he must think his skill is worth them. Even if people never understood why Lang got the minutes he did, Babcock isn't dumb/crazy/suddenly afflicted with Down syndrome and it applies here too.

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I also was thinking that when sizing the two up, if it were the third line maybe.. but all the same, every bit matters. It matters less on the 4th line but general skill still matters.

And Babs doles out more minutes to Drake anyway, so he must think his skill is worth them. Even if people never understood why Lang got the minutes he did, Babcock isn't dumb/crazy/suddenly afflicted with Down syndrome and it applies here too.

agreed completely and if this were Brad Norton of last year, I would say go with Drake all the way, but I don't think the overall skill advantage outweighs what you lose in physicality... long story short, I'm not saying Drake over Downey in every instance - I just want to see Downey get more games and I think he's earned it

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I know, me too. Downey is playing smart and that's perfect.

and on a totally irrational basis for Downey playing more, I just find the games FAR more entertaining with him in than out. It's enough to make me want him in all the time which also makes me glad I'm not Babs (kinda sorta! :D )

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Am I the only one who feels that Holland is just waiting for Downey to do something wrong, so he can put him back on waivers again? Every game that Downey plays, I'm just holding my breath hoping that he doesn't take a bad penalty or make a bad play that would warrant him being scratched. Either I'm right, or not having an enforcer for a long time has made me paranoid about Holland.

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I dont think thats what holland is doing, If he didnt want downey in, he wouldnt put him in. he would put Ellis in. Obviously he knows what downey brings to the table. But i dont understand why he puts downey on waivers instead of ellis.. beats the heck outta me.

I probbaly dont understand the waiver system or something.

Edited by Grittzkey

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I dont think thats what holland is doing, If he didnt want downey in, he wouldnt put him in. he would put Ellis in. Obviously he knows what downey brings to the table. But i dont understand why he puts downey on waivers instead of ellis.. beats the heck outta me.

I probbaly dont understand the waiver system or something.

It's because they're pretty sure he'll clear and out of respect to him - this way he'll get a shot to play somewhere fulltime if a team wants him enough - it's all out of respect to Downey - They can't afford to put Ellis or Meech on waivers, because someone would take them right away and I could be wrong, but I don't think Kopecky has any options left either...

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Am I the only one who feels that Holland is just waiting for Downey to do something wrong, so he can put him back on waivers again? Every game that Downey plays, I'm just holding my breath hoping that he doesn't take a bad penalty or make a bad play that would warrant him being scratched. Either I'm right, or not having an enforcer for a long time has made me paranoid about Holland.

Thats the exact stance i have. If Downey makes one big error...he's gone. Meanwhile Drake can go -6, playing the exact same role...and be just fine. Oh wait...it must be the 1 assist making the difference.

Anybody who would take this injured version of Drake over Downey has screws loose. There is absolutely not one thing working in favor of that argument. Oh he plays PK...yeah that -6 just fuels your argument.

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Thats the exact stance i have. If Downey makes one big error...he's gone. Meanwhile Drake can go -6, playing the exact same role...and be just fine. Oh wait...it must be the 1 assist making the difference.

Anybody who would take this injured version of Drake over Downey has screws loose. There is absolutely not one thing working in favor of that argument. Oh he plays PK...yeah that -6 just fuels your argument.

Great post, Lou.

There is absolutley nothing to justify Drake being in the lineup still. He has been terrible all season long, minus his fights. If he can't fight, then he might as well be out of the lineup, because that's the only thing he's done right all season long.

The numbers really don't lie. Downey is a +1, while Drake is a -6. That's a huge dropoff point. Downey has also played much better hockey than Drake all season, and with less ice time.

Am I the only one who feels that Holland is just waiting for Downey to do something wrong, so he can put him back on waivers again? Every game that Downey plays, I'm just holding my breath hoping that he doesn't take a bad penalty or make a bad play that would warrant him being scratched. Either I'm right, or not having an enforcer for a long time has made me paranoid about Holland.

Exactly what I've been thinking also. Holland is extremely anti-enforcer for some reason.

It's surprising that he brought Downey in here in the first place, but I think it was more or less Babcock getting on him about the lack of protection for the star players. In my opinion, anyways.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that, and Downey continues to play well and prove his critics wrong. I want him to stay, because he's played good this season. And, of course, he fights. :)

Edited by Kp-Wings

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Just FYI....a player's +/_ has nothing to do with penalty killing execpt when we're scored against short-handed (See: Rafalski, Lidstrom, Kronwall, etc)....

Downey = agitating, fighting

Drake (at 100%) = agitating, fighting, penalty-killing, forechecking, shot-blocking....

There's really no comparison. I know Drake has been pretty quiet since the cheekbone-cracking incident, but he will perk up and get back to his old self soon enough (especially once the shield comes off).

I like both Drake and Downey, and I would LOVE to see both of them get playing time, but the Wings don't have the roster space to allow young up-and-coming players to get bumped by a middle-aged-role-player like Downey. That's why the Wings will put Downey waivers instead of Ellis or Kopecky, who're young players with lots of potential.

I'm glad that Downey cleared waivers so that he can be sent down (and called back up) without the Wings losing him. I'll be glad, in the end, when all of their names' are etched on Lord Stanley's Cup!

Go WINGS!!!

Edited by Bear

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